ivalm Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Hello all, I'm a somewhat longtime lurker of this site, but only recently had a question come up where I do need help; so, here goes my first post! I am a graduate/PhD student in a large research university and until now I was TAing introductory physics for engineers (one of those huge 300 student lecture classes). As part of my TAship this Fall quarter I ran a weekly hour long discussion section, two hour long OH, and the quizzes. During my office hours usually very few people came (which is typical for other TAs as well), but I had two girls who never missed the hours/discussion section. By about week 4, I developed a very strong crush on one of them, let's call her E, but since I was the TA I never made any kind of advances as it would be highly immoral/unprofessional. What was unusual about these girls is that unlike most people who attend office hours, they were doing extremely well in the class (E was the top student, the other girl was the second to the top student; again, it's a 300 person class). We also talked quite a bit about stuff that is not class or physics related. I thought that perhaps they were long time friends and one of them had a crush on me and brought the other one to make things not awkward; however when I asked how long they knew each other they said they met in class (during my office hours no less) and have since formed a study group. I was even more exasperated because I am fairly bad (and have been told so) at reading girl's intentions/flirts -- both girls were VERY friendly with me but I think E was more outgoing. At the same time, I'm sure E is also much more of the extrovert that the other girl. At about week 8 I was moved to break my own conventions and decided to friend E on Facebook. Partly, I was hoping to see that her relationship status is not single, except I learned she was (and still is) single. She accepted my friend request but I didn't write anything to her nor did she write to me. Nothing about this friending was ever mentioned so I don't think she gave it much thought. I hoped to talk to her more frankly about this after finals but the final for that class was late in the week and her flight home was but a few hours after the final was over. Perhaps because of this she rushed out of class after the final and I didn't get a chance to say anything (at any rate, she left early so unless she waited it wouldn't have worked). I feel very awkward asking her out as the only relationship I had with her was as a TA. When I was in undergrad I also had a TA who thought my courteousness was more than just that, and it was weird. I actually tried to chat with her recently over Facebook but it was quite short (and she allegedly had Facebook troubles with her account going offline/online ~10 times within a span of 30 seconds at one point). At any rate, she ended the conversation by saying she was going to watch Band Of Brothers (which is an oldish series, so clearly a DVD); perhaps she was watching with friends/relatives, but otherwise seems like a lame excuse. Age wise we're close. She's a 3rd year undergrad and 20 years old, I'm a 2nd year grad and 22 years old. How do I read this? Do I ask her out? Thanks you in advance!
welikeincrowds Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 welikeincrowds's "Ask her out" flowchart: Will I lose my job?YesDon't ask her out [*]No Ask her out
denise_xo Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 welikeincrowds's "Ask her out" flowchart: Will I lose my job?YesDon't ask her out [*]No Ask her out Well, I second that. I also teach at a university and my general advice would be thread very carefully. It's easy to misread someone's intentions and you DON'T want to get stuck with a label of being the TA who is overly interested in female students. Those rumours travel really fast in a student population and become something they weren't when it started. If you do act, however, then definitely wait until they've been afforded their final grades for that course, and make sure you check the university policy on staff-student relationships.
Author ivalm Posted December 30, 2010 Author Posted December 30, 2010 I knew I forgot to mention something -- I am now on a research grant and will likely never TA again, so that's not an issue. I AM aware of the awkwardness that can be generated by a FORMER TA approaching a female student.. this is why I'm writing here! Thanks for all advice!
denise_xo Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 I knew I forgot to mention something -- I am now on a research grant and will likely never TA again, so that's not an issue. I AM aware of the awkwardness that can be generated by a FORMER TA approaching a female student.. this is why I'm writing here! Thanks for all advice! - sorry - wrong posting
january2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 I'm sorry to say, from what I can tell, there's nothing in what you've written to signal that she's interested in you romantically. My gut reaction is that it would be unwise to try to start something with her even though you are not a TA anymore.
Author ivalm Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 I'm sorry to say, from what I can tell, there's nothing in what you've written to signal that she's interested in you romantically. My gut reaction is that it would be unwise to try to start something with her even though you are not a TA anymore. That's what I fear. So, here is another question.. is there a way for me to probe her to be more certain about her thoughts (again, our sets of friends are completely disjoint and all I have is her facebook/uni email)? Should I just ignore her since she doesn't approach me on her own? I am fairly certain I know a girl who would date me but I would rather be with E..
january2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 You can try interacting more but I think it's a fine line. If she doesn't like you in the same way, possibly because she still considers the TA/student relationship to be applicable, then you may come across in a way that's considered a bit creepy and stalkerish. I'm sure that's not what you want.
TheWatcher Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 I'm sorry to say, from what I can tell, there's nothing in what you've written to signal that she's interested in you romantically. I have to agree with you,January.A lot of us men are guilty of reading too much into things.Particularly when it comes to women.We are so used to being met with such disdain & contempt from women when we have a civil conversation/ interaction with one...our minds start to wonder.I have made the same sort of assumptions as well.This sort of thing usually happens to men who inexperienced or unsuccessful with women. I think that the OP should disregard her attending office hours & the non-school related discussions they had.It most probably meant nothing to her and it was no indication of interest.
AverageJoe Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Considering everything you just posted. You need to just ask her out. TA is no longer of a concern. Would you rather live knowing you give it a shot, or would you rather be left living, what if? The worse thing that can happen, is no. Yes, probe her. Probe her hard.
that girl Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 I am now on a research grant and will likely never TA again, so that's not an issue. You have either just submitted her grade or are about to- it is still an issue. It doesn't matter if you plan to TA again. Should I just ignore her since she doesn't approach me on her own? If she doesn't approach you outside of class activities, I really doubt she is interested.
joeLove Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Here are a few ideas of things you can try. However, you have to be patient ... Try to find out the type of things she does outside of school (maybe from her facebook page ). See if you can meet with her during that activity (in a group setting of course) and go from there. It might take a while to get that figured out and planned well ..., that's why you need to be patient.
Author ivalm Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 @that_girl: All grades have been submitted and finalized and at any rate I don't control them. @january + that_girl: Since she didn't approach me for anything outside of class I have to say perhaps you're right @joeLove: The problem is that she uses Facebook mostly to comment on photos of her friends; seriously, that and set up times to talk to people is the only thing I've seen her do in the past 2 months.. she's not exactly revealing on there. If I knew any of her friends perhaps something could be done, but the circles we hang out with don't overlap at all as far as I can tell (she hangs out with undergrads, I hang out with grads; most of my friends are on research grants so they aren't even TAing her friends.. not that that would matter). What I thought would be neat is to invite her to a play (there is an amazingly good theater in SD, The Old Globe, and I don't think she saw many plays, yet she strikes me as someone who could enjoy it), but perhaps I shouldn't... also, it's more or less impossible to track her down in any other way since there are ~20k undergrads on campus, it's a very big school! Anyways.. the vibe I'm getting from this discussion is that since she did not show interest outside of class I should assume that she isn't in to me. Her niceness is likely just a quirk of her extrovert personality and her unusually high attendance is some weird studiousness. Not what I wanted to hear, but I had a hunch that that is true and I guess it's confirmed (which is why I wrote here in the first place). If it wasn't for the TA relationship I would have definitely asked her out, I'm not afraid of rejections, but I don't want anything to come out as "teacher hits on student", even though I'm not a teacher nor will likely be ever again (I plan to work in industry once I get the PhD). Thanks for the help!
Author ivalm Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 If she doesn't approach you outside of class activities, I really doubt she is interested. OK, since my last post I didn't approach E again. However, yesterday new quarter started and she posted a link on my wall and asked a few questions, I replied and asked her some questions, she replied again.. at this point I haven't replied again. I'm not particularly comfortable with having a wall discussion but, at the same time, everything said in this thread made me more self-conscious about doing something too quickly. Should I keep talking to her through Facebook or would it be appropriate for me to ask her to lunch? If I should continue Facebook discussion, I'd certainly rather move it from being on my wall.. should my reply be sent via a message or is it better to keep things on the wall? I like talking by phone/seeing someone instead of facebook/texting/IM, but I know most people are quite the opposite.
Author ivalm Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) So I replied on the wall yesterday evening and she chatted to me instead of replying on the wall (also yesterday). This morning I chatted with her and before she had to go I asked her out for lunch, which she agreed to (and apparently will happen today). I'm now thinking of asking her out on date proper for Sunday, but not 100% sure.. would it seem like rushing? Edited January 5, 2011 by ivalm
xpaperxcutx Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Nothing wrong with dating someone you TA'd. An old friend of mine started dating her TA in her 2nd year as well. They've been together for almost two years now.
tigressA Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Just enjoy the lunch date and see how that goes. If you feel good enough during/at the end of the date to ask her out again, then do it.
Author ivalm Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) I did ask her today " would you like to go out for lunch " in hopes that she might take "go out" as more than just "friendly" lunch, but at least from chat I couldn't tell if she got the difference. She did seem happy about it though. PS: Usually I would say to people "would you like to have lunch" or "do you want to go to lunch" rather than "go out for lunch".. perhaps it's a difference I made up in my mind.. do YOU think there is a difference? Edited January 5, 2011 by ivalm
Author ivalm Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 Had a wonderful lunch until she had to go to her next class (so ~1 hour). Talked so much neither of us managed to actually eat our food, just little nibbles. At the end I asked her if she would like to go on a *date* on Sunday, she said she'd be free in the evening. I guess now I can finally throw away some of my TA-related insecurities; she knows my intentions. Anyhow, seems that the moral of the story is that sometimes one shouldn't give up hope and just be patient.
In The Green Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I am cheering for you more than you could possibly know Ivalm.
Author ivalm Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 I am cheering for you more than you could possibly know Ivalm. Thank you! It's always nice when there is a happy resolution. Now I need to not screw up and trip over a bug Actually, when we met today I think she wanted to hug me, even raised her hands, but I messed up and didn't reciprocate fast enough. Then since she didn't leave until the last minute for her class she had to dash off and I didn't get a chance to give a good bye hug. Grr, got to make sure I don't repeat/make more mistakes.
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