He refused reconcilation because he thinks it is wrong to leave his new gf for me

[shellen]

Hi everyone...I'm reallie glad to have chance upon this forum where heartbroken people like me can have an avenue to vent it out and also seek some advice. Though it's a little late coz I am kind of in the "I-give-up" mode, but I am finding it very difficult to let go.

 

I broken up with my boyfriend of two years for about 9 months already, but all these while we kept in touch, though now I realized I should not have done that. My ex-bf was a Muslim and he said he did not think I was ever going to be willing to convert and plus my parents will absolutely object to me converting so he saw no point in continuing on. I have to admit that then I was really not sure if I loved him enough to make such a sacrifice so when he asked for a breakup I accepted it.

 

I was definitely devastated after that but who doesn't after a break-up right? So although I missed him so much and wanted him around so badly I did not do anything about it because I thought it was just a normal process. He promised me that we would remain good friends because I really treasure him as someone I can talk about anything to. But sadly he did not keep his promise and it was getting increasingly difficult to contact him. I was slowly getting used to contacting him less, though it was a arduous process and I thought I was slowly recovering until one day my girl friend told me she saw him with his new gf. We had broken up about 6 months then.

 

All these while I had asked him now and then if he was seeing someone but he always told me no, but in actual fact he was already seeing this new girl a few months back. I had actually saw the picture of his new girl friend in his wallet when we met up once and questioned him a few times abt it but he flatly denied and said it was his cousin. I did not feel it was appropriate to question too much so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and did not think about it anymore. He later told me he did not want to tell me the truth because he was afraid I would be upset. I thought I would be ok after a few days on learning about his new gf but instead it plunged me into another abyss of depression. I guess I suddenly realized I was going to lose him for good.

 

This made me rethink the whole conversion issue and I decided I was willing to convert to Islam, though my parents would still be a problem but I was prepared to stand up against them. I asked him for a reconcilation. At first he said he did not want to because he was already in another relationship and it was not right for him to leave one girl for another, though sometimes I felt he did the same thing to me because we broke up shortly after he joined a new company and the girl was his colleague, but of course he insisted that he did not. But after he said no, he messaged me back to tell me that he would consider.

 

In the end he told me that he still could not make himself leave a girl for another and I guess he was worried things may still not work out even if we got back together. His new girlfriend is Muslim, so no religion problems I guess. But I think that is a lame excuse. I do not see anything wrong in leaving someone for another, it is bad ya..but what is wrong with choosing to be with the person you love. Unless of course you dun love the person anymore. I told him to tell me frankly if he does not love me anymore but he refused to say anything. I told him to tell me that he wants to continue to be with the girl because he loved her and wanted to be with her. But again he refused to say anything. To me, it's important to hear these to convince myself to give up.

 

I really do not know if he still loves me but he does get overly concerned whenever he knows I am going out, always asking who I am meeting, guy or girl, almost like interrogating and when I do not answer his queries he would ignore me, which I absolutely cannot tolerate. But finally I got really pissed and asked him why does he bother to ask so much since he was not interested in getting back with me and as usual he just did not want to talk about such things. He just apologized for asking too much and then ignored me (again) for the next few days. Later he apologized for ignoring me and said he was in a bad mood because he felt bad letting me down.

 

Whenever my ex feels troubled with affairs of the heart he would go missing in action and it simply irks me. And he is very unwilling to discuss such things. So somtimes I really dun understand what is he thinking or feeling. I love him very much, despite the way he treats me I still want to be with him. So many times I wanted to cut contact from him, but I always failed to do it haha. I am trying it again. I had decided two days ago to let him go completely, but I can feel the ache growing in my chest these past two days...arrgghh....unbearable. I just feel that it is so stupid to give him up because he thinks it is wrong to leave another girl for me. Not a good enough reason for me. I dun understand why can't he just tell me directly if he still loves me or not. Any ideas how I can make him reveal his true feelings?

 

Is he just toying with my feelings? His ex-gf before me also wanted to patch up with him and he certainly did not bother himself with her. But for me, there were so many times I lashed out at him but we still made up in the end. It's quite a miracle how we still kept in touch these past 9 months. sigh..maybe I should not try to read too deep into all these. But if he still loves me and I still love him, I find is such a waste to throw all that away because of....moral issues?

[overseas2004]

I would love to post a reply to your post. But first I have a question. Do you really realize what it would mean for you to convert to Islam? Do you understand the ramifications of that? And do you understand what the Qoran says about a women's place in society?

 

I am asking you this because I lived in a Muslim country for several months and I am wondering whether you would really want to subject yourself to this first.

 

So if you could answer... I will continue with my thoughts on the rest of your post.

[shellen]

Hi overseas2004, I am aware of the practices that I have to adopt if I convert, e.g. praying 5 times a day, fasting and abstaining from the so called harem foods like pork and alcohol. As for the status of women, I am not from a Muslim country, in fact Muslims are the minorities, so I do not think the status of Muslim women in my country are in any way compromised, perhaps except the fact that polygamy is allowed. But I did read about the oppression that some women in Muslim countries are subjected to. So the main reasons why my parents object to my conversion is due to the many clashes in cultural practices. I hope that answers your question and I look forward to reading your reponse

[morrigan]

Even if he still has feelings for you, he is currently with someone else. Unless they break up without anyone else's intervention, you should accept that your relationship with this man is over. Is it fundamentally important to this man that you become a Muslim? Has he ever questioned that you might wish him to become what faith you are?

 

What caused your initial breakup? If neither of you got past the problems in that relationship, they will undoubtedly reappear if you get back with him.

 

As far as dating other people, he should make a clean break with his girlfriend before he tries to reestablish a relationship with you. He does not have the right to be angry if you have been dating other people as well. And if he truly wants to be with you again, he shouldn't be ignoring you or being emotionally distant.

[shellen]

Well...the main reason to our break up is religion because he saw no future in continuing on with me. He felt that two years was enough time for me to decide if I was willing to convert. I knew all along that he expected me to convert but at the same time I was hoping that some day he could compromise on that. And I never expected him to ditch me because of religion. I thought no matter what we would find some way to work it out.

 

So somehow I felt the appearance of another girl kind of catalyzed the whole situation because he did not give me much time to decide after he told me that he did not think the relationship was going anywhere. I had been dating him for two years behind my parents back, so when he kind of gave me the ultimatum I finally told my parents about him. Well as expected, the situation was chaotic with my dad threatening to disown me and all that. When I told him my parents' reactions, I told him not to give up on us so easily. He said he would not and that he loved me very very much, but two weeks later it was over.

 

At that time he just got a new job and was still getting adjusted and he said he did not want to think about our problems. And he was always going out for dinner with colleagues, so my guess is he probably met the new girl and decided to move on? But of course all these is just what I think, though he denied it outright. When I think about how while I was still trying to figure things out with my parents, he was already embarking on his journey to a new relationship, I feel so hurt and stupid.

 

I thought if religion was the problem, now that I decided to convert, nothing should hold him back. If he had been more frank with me about the new girl, I would definitely rethink the conversion issues earlier and not when they are already few months into their relationship.

[overseas2004]

I think that some of the subjects that you touched on are quiet accurate. However there is more. The attitude of men towards women in Muslim countries is in my opinion something I could never live with. Although he may be acting very Western with you and in the States. You do have to realize that he was brought up with these ideas and he has these attitudes. Women should be covered. If they cheat they should be killed. Women should not work.

 

To Muslim men --women are their possessions not their equals in a loving relationship. When I lived in Jordan last year (and Jordan is a very moderate country where Islam is not fanatical). I saw women sometimes walking around all covered up in like 95 degree weather. But I never saw women out and about too much. I was told that the men even go shopping because they just don't want their women going out. Women are beaten on a regular occasion and this is considered acceptable in the Muslim culture. If God forbid the two of you ever have children and get divorced. If he takes the children to his country. YOu will never have the right to get them back because the courts will not recognize your rights as a human being. Women do not vote. They have no rights.

 

I met a Jordanian man while I was there. I thought that he was really educated and very Western in his approach. He was a part of King Husseins family hence he had travelled extensively and was very well educated and accustomed to Western culture. I was really not interested in him but he kept pursuing a relationship with me. I have to admit I really liked him. After about a month he asked me to marry him. I was actually considering it for a little while because he was a really nice man and very intelligent. But then he started telling me how his wife must be covered because she is a jewel that no one else should see. Crazy stuff..... He also told me I would have to quit my job.

 

I think it would be really hard for an American girl (i am assuming you are) to fit in with that culture. I think now you are blinded by love and you do not see what kind of problems you would have in the future. You have to remember something ... he is here right now and he has adopted pretty much to US culture. But the truth is that he is VERY MUCH what his parents raised him to be. And these will be the problems that you face in the future.

 

By the way what country is he from?

 

 

And then to go on to part II? He now has a Muslim girlfriend and he has told you that he does not want to go back? I think he means what he says. And I bet you that he would have never married you anyway even if you had offered to convert up front. The reason I say this is because usually Muslim families will map out who their children will marry. As for what happened between the two of you, I dont doubt that he loved you very much and maybe still does. However in the MUSLIM culture LOVE between a couple is a luxury. Often couples come together to please their parents.

 

Let me give you an example of why I say this. While I was in Jordan I was constantly getting hit on. While I do think I am an attractive woman and I have gotten hit on in other places in my life. It was nothing like this. It was crazy in Jordan. I started asking when I arrived "what's the deal". Well people told me like this.

 

Men and women do date here. If they meet someone they like they can go on one or two chaperoned dates with her. After that the parents will forbid him to see her unless he wants to marry her. So men have no contact with women prior to mairrage. They have no where to vent their sexual frustrations. Hence they were hitting on me because I was obviously a foreign women (and in their mind much easier to access for possible sex). The point of my story however is that people marry there with either small contact or almost no contact with their future spouse. The culture does not place a lot of value on love. It places value on duty to Allah and to your parents. In this way it is totally different from US culture and European culture where we still believe that mairrage should be based on love.

 

I am sure that your boyfriend feels this duty to marry a Muslim woman. And by that I don't mean a converted one.

 

In 1994, I broke up with a man I had been with for 6 years. He was and has reamined the love of my life. We broke up because he was a Jew and I was an Orthodox Christian. Ok and there were some other reasons.

I don't regret it. And even though I have never found someone like him since I will say that I may have convereted to be a Jew and go through all the motions. But I will never be a Jew... just like you will never really truly be a Muslim. Your life would have been based on a lie from the outset.

 

I hope this gives you some more insight. I don't think he is coming back. Sorry to hurt you. But I will PM you with my e-mail if you feel you need to vent.

 

I just went through an awful break up too. So its good to have e-mail buddies at times like this.

 

CHIN UP>...

[shellen]

Hi overseas2004, thanks for your insights. Actually I am not american, I'm from Singapore and so is my ex. The Muslims in my country generally do date freely and there are plenty that do not cover up at all. But my ex did mention to me in the past that he would expect me to dress more conservatively if I do convert, e.g. no more mini skirts and tank tops, and eventually he hopes I can put on the head scarf too. I was actually willing to comply to his wishes. When I told him I was willing to convert I actually went to purchase a few sweaters to show my sincerity haha and I wore them to meet him once in the sweltering heat. It was quite unbearable but I pushed up my sleeves so was not that bad.

 

But I have to agree with u that for muslims, life revolves around their religion and they will choose religion over love anytime. But i think i can't really agree on the view that he would prefer a pure muslim rather than a convert. The Muslims in my country are mostly Malays and he has always preferred non-Malays so I think he is mentally prepared to accept a convert. But I think he really got a win-win situation this time because his new girlfriend is not pure malay, but a Muslim. And I asked him once what did he like about her and he said because she was funny like me. I was quite pissed to hear that coz it sounds like he has found a Muslim version of me...aarrgghh...

 

And today I asked him over icq one last time to reassure myself of my decision to give up, if I was doing the right thing. He said he think so but he still liked me. And he wants to stay in touch, but of course it's really up to me. In fact he asked me once recently if few years down the road he came back for me will I want him back. Maybe he jus wants to keep me around in case things dun work out with his current gf?

 

And ya..i think it would be a great idea to correspond via email

[overseas2004]

I have a friend in Singapore that I met on this webiste. She is really great. Her and I have been writing back and forth everyday because I am going through a really hard break up. She has been wonderful for me.

 

Maybe I could put you two in touch.

 

The one thing that is really awesome is when you have someone who will listen and offer advice back. I have lots of friends but they are tired of listening to my break up story. And I am still finding it hard to cope.

 

I think you are right about what you said today and you probably need to drop it. But I know it hurts like the 7 depths of hell.

 

Lots of love and prayers for you.....

[shellen]

ya i know what you mean. My friends did not say they were tired of listening to my breakup story but I felt bad bothering them with it. I did not plan on telling so many ppl abt my breakup...haha but I had to look for new people to empty my sorrows so I ended sharing my story with quite a few ppl.

 

But mine has been over for quite some time, so I dun feel as bad as before. I remember the first few months I was crying every day and I still had to drag myself to school, really torturous. Well, you can confide in me anytime if you feel there is a need to unload ya?

 

So far I have been keeping in touch with my ex almost every day. When we fight, he ignores me for the longest time three or four days. For me, the longest I managed is two days...pathetic huh. It has been going on like that for 9 months, tho phone conversations have been icreasingly less frequent. So to stop contact suddenly, I cannot imagine how it will be like. Perhaps, it would also be a good opportunity for him to realize if im important to him, since so far I have stupidly allowed him to have the best of both worlds. So this time it is a win win situation for me? hah... I just need to find the determination some how...

 

sighzz....it really sucks to be in a break up, hang in there....

[morrigan]

I'm not thrilled by how he ignores you after arguments for so long--it's almost as if he thinks he is punishing you for a mutual dispute.

I don't think this hot and cold behavior of his is helping your self esteem.

 

The best thing you can do for yourself, right now, is to have space, and think about if you really want to convert to Islam for this man, or if you are only doing this to appease him. Would your family ever reconcile themselves to this relationship? Is this man worth the hurt and confusion you feel? I think there are a lot of wonderful men in this world you could meet, who won't demand you to change an aspect of your life for them. But whether you decide to pursue a relationship with this guy or not, it's your choice to make, don't allow him to keep you on hold.

 

Be firm with this guy. Tell him that while you still have feelings for him, he is with someone else, he has no right to be involved with this woman while discussing a possible relationship with you. He needs to either stop communicating with you and continue dating this woman, or end his relationship with this woman and potentially have a relationship with you.

 

I wish you the best of luck--a lot of people have went through the same struggle of feelings with someone they loved. It's never easy, and sometimes it does take time and distance to get a better understanding.

[overseas2004]

I think the problem is that as long as you are calling, messaging and speaking to each other ... you are delaying the healing and moving on process and wasting your time.

 

I know how hard it is to stop talking to someone all together. My bf and I were living together and we had a break up without any kind of cooling off period (in otherwords we were not fighting) and BAM he just left.

 

I tried to call him twice and he just got more agitated. So I stopped calling and talking to him. I did not hear from him for a month. I was devastated. Crying, vomiting, taking sedatives ... you name it. But I decided not to call and I stuck to it.

 

He ended up coming by last week. Not asking for reconcilliation yet just crying and looking like hell basically.

Now I have decided that the next time he calls no matter how hard it is.. I am not going to speak to him at all or answer his phone calls or messages. Think I really want to do that deep down inside? No not really. I would rather scoop him up in my arms and hug him all over.

 

But I can't because it isn't going to work. And the more I see him the more I suffer. He doesn't suffer only me.

 

It is better to have a painful end than an end with no pain.

 

 

Let me know what you decide.

[shellen]

Well..i think for now...he wants to continue his current relationship and still keep in touch with me. Actually I am quite sure his girlfriend defintiely will not like him to keep in touch with me. I know what I should do now is to avoid his calls and messages, but I really like to include him in my life. Sometimes I think we should have just remained friends so he can continue to be in my life but without the painful memories.

 

You know, it will be easier if he avoided me instead...

[SoleMate]

Shellen -

 

Based on what you have said, I am quite sure he will never leave his new gf for you. He didn't refuse reconciliation just because "it is wrong to leave his new gf", he refuses it because he has CHOSEN her over you. His reasons for doing this aren't really even relevant, but I think the religion issue definitely was the clincher. As to why he didn't wait and give you a chance to convert - well, in his mind, he had already given you two years.

 

But he still seems interested in controlling you and your life. My advice is, do whatever it takes to get him TOTALLY out of your life. He can't be your bf/fiance/husband, and he's NOT being a good friend to you by trying to control you and messing up your head. I know it hurts, but this relationship is ALREADY dead. So it's time to "amputate" the ex-bf that's still clinging to your life. That is the only way you will have peace of mind and happiness.

[shellen]

-Morrigan-

 

You are right he should not have considered getting back with me while still in another relationship. At least I feel, he should have let the other girl know, but of course he did not. But anyway he has already decided, so nothing much I can do. I am really sincere about converting for him, but it was not enough for me to make him wanna come back. Hah, maybe he does not have enough faith in me.

 

And during the time he was considering, it was hell for me. He said he was torn between the two and all that, but he was always giving me hot and cold treatment. You know some days we could be messaging each other throughout the day and den suddenly wham, he disappears for one or two days, usually on weekends. I guess not difficult to explain why. But I do not think that is the way to treat a girl who is waiting for you answer. And you are right, it definitely hurt my self esteem...a lot. And I was feeling so insecure and jealous all the time because I wondered if he was sincerely considering or is he going to just delay in giving me an answer until I choose to give up myself and he was spending all his time with his girlfriend. Well, at least he was kind enough to give me some answer, though sometimes his actions contradicted his decision and made me slightly hopeful.

 

But of course I have been through this same process so many times, I know it is not going to happen. He has been out of town for the past few days and I felt OK not contacting him. But I think he is going to contact me when he is back because before he left he insisted on getting me something tho I declined. So I hope I will be able to persevere. Well actually some of his stuffs are still with me, I've asked him many many times to come get it, but he is always too busy or lazy. So I guess I'm gonna keep them for my own use hah...

[shellen]

Everyone is telling me to give up and I think that's the best and only way for me too. But as I said, he was really my soulmate, I find it such a pity to give him up.

 

He told me that his instincts told him that he should just go with the flow and if it is fated he will come back to me one day. Hmmm ya I think fate is really important when it comes to meeting the right people to fall in love. But it is really up to oneself to decide to take action right?

 

I was the one who had to deal with a lot of issues so if anyone should decide to give up, shouldn't it be me? During the time when I was trying to persuade my parents, he did not give me any support at all. He did not even ask to talk to them. And if I had known he would give up so easily, I would not have even bothered telling my parents about it at all.

 

But well, I've learnt a lot over the past 9 months. I never thought I was capable of having such deep feelings for another person. I always thought I was cold hearted or something to that extent hee. So he really taught me how to love. But I dun think I ever wanna put in too much of my feelings in anyone again, u become so vulnerable and I dun like that.