analogman Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 I just joined this forum hoping you all might be able to provide some insight... My wife and I have had a rough couple months. We've been together for 6 years, married for 2. It all started in August, one night after some heavy drinking she ended up making out with a mutual friend after I went to bed. I confronted her that night and of course she denied it. Eventually, she came clean. It hurt and I was angry, but considering the alcohol involved, I could understand it. We went to MC a few times. It wasn't really helpful, but I felt just us opening up and talking had successfully pulled us through it. Since then, I've been under the impression that our marriage was better than ever. She's been telling me she loves me, can't imagine life without me and that she was stupid for jeopardizing our marriage. Well, last weekend (the day after x-mas), she drops a bomb...She tells me that she feels like something is missing and that she thinks we should separate. I was blown away. I asked her to leave and she did. The next day, I discovered she's been texting/emailing another man she met a few weeks ago at a bar. The messages tore my heart out. When I confronted her, she admitted that she's been flirting with him and that they kissed the night they met. I was furious. I told her it was over. She began sobbing and apologized, claiming that she loves me and hates to see me hurt. Last night she called me and told me that she only wants to separate for now, think about our marriage and not jump to divorce. Am I stupid for considering this? Any other thoughts?
TaraMaiden Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 Yes, you are stupid for considering this. You draw lines in the sand, she weeps, sobs and begs, and basically lies and cheats her way back into your affections, because she knows she can, and then starts all over again. What kind of a patsy are you? How many times will she have to do this, before enough is enough? Any other thoughts? Find a lawyer, and file for divorce.
Karma20 Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 I know its hard but you need to let her go. You only caught her this time, how many times have you not caught her? I know it's hard to hear but divorce seems the only option.
hopesndreams Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 Last night she called me and told me that she only wants to separate for now, think about our marriage and not jump to divorce. Why are you letting her call the shots? Sounds to me she wants to keep you as her back-up plan for when things don't work out with whoever she is "seeing". What do you want? If you want her back, be forceful and lay down the law. She moves back home, MC, IC and whatever else it takes. Has she shown any remorse for what she has done? If not, and there are no kids, cut your losses and find someone who is worthy of your love. Don't waste years and years of your life staying with a cheater.
What_Next Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 You are being gaslighted. There is MUCH more to her story. Make you own choice, but start with showing her a 180 style of behavior. Hopesndreams is right, she comes home NOW, the bullsh__t stops NOW. She shows remorse and takes on the momumental effort of rebuilding trust in your marriage. IC/MC, all of that goes along with it as well.
january2010 Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 Since both indiscretions involved alcohol, I wonder if there's more to the story than meets the eye. Nonetheless, I agree with the others, cut your losses.
Author analogman Posted December 29, 2010 Author Posted December 29, 2010 Thanks all for the replies. I do love her very much and she's my best friend. I guess I'm just so surprised that I'm willing to try anything to keep it together. Hell, a few weeks ago we were discussing plans for our new kitchen and a summer vacation - it seemed better than ever. I don't want to quit prematurely. I do feel like she is just asking for a license to cheat, but TBH I'm actually OK with that. We've always been a jealousy-free couple. It's the dishonesty that kills me. What difference does it make if I give the separation a couple months, do my thing and then re-evaluate? I'm OK financially without her and she's agreed to leave everything with me, except for a small amount of cash.
delajoonal Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 I just joined this forum hoping you all might be able to provide some insight... My wife and I have had a rough couple months. We've been together for 6 years, married for 2. It all started in August, one night after some heavy drinking she ended up making out with a mutual friend after I went to bed. I confronted her that night and of course she denied it. Eventually, she came clean. It hurt and I was angry, but considering the alcohol involved, I could understand it. We went to MC a few times. It wasn't really helpful, but I felt just us opening up and talking had successfully pulled us through it. Since then, I've been under the impression that our marriage was better than ever. She's been telling me she loves me, can't imagine life without me and that she was stupid for jeopardizing our marriage. Well, last weekend (the day after x-mas), she drops a bomb...She tells me that she feels like something is missing and that she thinks we should separate. I was blown away. I asked her to leave and she did. The next day, I discovered she's been texting/emailing another man she met a few weeks ago at a bar. The messages tore my heart out. When I confronted her, she admitted that she's been flirting with him and that they kissed the night they met. I was furious. I told her it was over. She began sobbing and apologized, claiming that she loves me and hates to see me hurt. Last night she called me and told me that she only wants to separate for now, think about our marriage and not jump to divorce. Am I stupid for considering this? Any other thoughts? oh my....all that comes to mind, "cake eater"... go to IC, get the papers drawn up... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me! sorry...truly...i SO KNOW the pain, my xh had an affair too and left me for her after 15 yrs together, 13 yrs M... keep reading the LS'rs tho..these people are amazing and really sincerely care...please keep posting ok.
YellowShark Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 I will save you a lot of grief analogman with once sentence: "Once a cheater not always a cheater... twice a cheater ALWAYS a cheater." I walked the road you are going down. I gave my EX a break the first time she cheated. We did the counselling thing, set boundaries, and made promises to each other infront of the therapist. Two years later she was up to her old tricks again.. and I caught her cheating with a mutual friend after I went to bed. Sound familiar? Needless to say I left her 4 days later, been NC since I tied up all the loose ends. Your wife has disrespected you twice, don't allow her a third chance to kick sand in your face.. there are millions of women out there for you who have integrity. Just my 2 cents. Good luck.
Surfer203 Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 As some one who recently took back a cheater.. I am biased slightly. I would say it sounds like your wife is asking to go F*** other men while you wait. That is ridiculous. Do not allow that. Line in the sand as mentioned above. Give her the choice.. you or the highway.
health Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 I just joined this forum hoping you all might be able to provide some insight... My wife and I have had a rough couple months. We've been together for 6 years, married for 2. It all started in August, one night after some heavy drinking she ended up making out with a mutual friend after I went to bed. I confronted her that night and of course she denied it. Eventually, she came clean. It hurt and I was angry, but considering the alcohol involved, I could understand it. We went to MC a few times. It wasn't really helpful, but I felt just us opening up and talking had successfully pulled us through it. Since then, I've been under the impression that our marriage was better than ever. She's been telling me she loves me, can't imagine life without me and that she was stupid for jeopardizing our marriage. Well, last weekend (the day after x-mas), she drops a bomb...She tells me that she feels like something is missing and that she thinks we should separate. I was blown away. I asked her to leave and she did. The next day, I discovered she's been texting/emailing another man she met a few weeks ago at a bar. The messages tore my heart out. When I confronted her, she admitted that she's been flirting with him and that they kissed the night they met. I was furious. I told her it was over. She began sobbing and apologized, claiming that she loves me and hates to see me hurt. Last night she called me and told me that she only wants to separate for now, think about our marriage and not jump to divorce. Am I stupid for considering this? Any other thoughts? Don't take this disrespect man. Kick her to the curb. People marry others who cheat early on - thinking it'll stop but then it keeps happening at year 10 - leave her now and save yourself years. You have to love each other equally. SHe may have in the past but she changed. Leave her and focus on your success this is not love or respect , it's scum and trash.
seibert253 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) Here's what's really going on: How does it feel to be her backup plan, because that's what you are. She's "in love" with this other dude and wants to "explore" those feelings, IE: screw his brains out and give him a test ride to see if he's acceptable. She wants to see where this goes, and if it turns out as she hopes, you will be thrown away like trash. Trust me, seen it here too many times to count. But, she needs a fall back on; you. You're comfortable, secure, she knows you're head over heels in love with her, and you will "wait" while she "figures herself out". BS. She's cheated on you TWICE, and you're still allowing her to disrespect you and your marriage. YOU need to take control of this situation and stop allowing her to run the show. YOU need to dictate what SHE should be doing in order for you to even consider remaining married to her. You need a game plan. 1. You need to have what I like to call a reality talk with her. This is where you tell her your expectations from her before you will even consider staying married to her. It is her choice to abide by these. You are not making her do anything, and make this crystal clear to her. But, make sure you let her know that if she choses not make this 100% commitment to saving your marriage, you will D her. Plain and simple. A. End all contact with the OM, your marriage will never heal with a third party in the mix B. Total transparency on her part. Free and total access to cellphone, computer, emails, etc. C. MC and IC for her. If she does not address the issues which lead to her cheating, she WILL do this again. D. She moves back home. You will never be able to verify anything she does if she's living somewhere else E. She must abide by all of these, and this is not negotable 2. If she refuses these, then it's time to start the 180 right away. Read up on it here 3. Go NC or LC. If you have kids, then ALL conversations with her should be about the kids and finances, nothing else. No kids, finances only NOTHING ELSE. She calls, don't answer let it go to VM. She texts, don't reply. She needs to see you're not going to tolerate this lack or action and commitment on her part, you're preparing to move forward without her, and she needs to experience what life will be like without you. 4. Contact an attorney, have D papers drawn up, and have her served. Nothing shocks a foggy WS to reality faster than seeing and reading the D papers. (worked well for me) You need to stand up for yourself and stop putting up with her nonsense. She will continue with her "confused" crap as long as you allow her. Stop being the fall back on, and the back up plan. You deserve better. You deserve 100% commitment from her to fix this, or you deserve someone better than her. I would have this talk sooner rather than later. Good Luck Edited December 30, 2010 by seibert253
marqueemoon4 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Especially if you don't have kids, definitely divorce her. This is only going to get worse.
Author analogman Posted December 30, 2010 Author Posted December 30, 2010 Here's what's really going on: How does it feel to be her backup plan, because that's what you are. She's "in love" with this other dude and wants to "explore" those feelings, IE: screw his brains out and give him a test ride to see if he's acceptable. She wants to see where this goes, and if it turns out as she hopes, you will be thrown away like trash. Trust me, seen it here too many times to count. But, she needs a fall back on; you. You're comfortable, secure, she knows you're head over heels in love with her, and you will "wait" while she "figures herself out". BS. She's cheated on you TWICE, and you're still allowing her to disrespect you and your marriage. YOU need to take control of this situation and stop allowing her to run the show. YOU need to dictate what SHE should be doing in order for you to even consider remaining married to her. You need a game plan. 1. You need to have what I like to call a reality talk with her. This is where you tell her your expectations from her before you will even consider staying married to her. It is her choice to abide by these. You are not making her do anything, and make this crystal clear to her. But, make sure you let her know that if she choses not make this 100% commitment to saving your marriage, you will D her. Plain and simple. A. End all contact with the OM, your marriage will never heal with a third party in the mix B. Total transparency on her part. Free and total access to cellphone, computer, emails, etc. C. MC and IC for her. If she does not address the issues which lead to her cheating, she WILL do this again. D. She moves back home. You will never be able to verify anything she does if she's living somewhere else E. She must abide by all of these, and this is not negotable 2. If she refuses these, then it's time to start the 180 right away. Read up on it here 3. Go NC or LC. If you have kids, then ALL conversations with her should be about the kids and finances, nothing else. No kids, finances only NOTHING ELSE. She calls, don't answer let it go to VM. She texts, don't reply. She needs to see you're not going to tolerate this lack or action and commitment on her part, you're preparing to move forward without her, and she needs to experience what life will be like without you. 4. Contact an attorney, have D papers drawn up, and have her served. Nothing shocks a foggy WS to reality faster than seeing and reading the D papers. (worked well for me) You need to stand up for yourself and stop putting up with her nonsense. She will continue with her "confused" crap as long as you allow her. Stop being the fall back on, and the back up plan. You deserve better. You deserve 100% commitment from her to fix this, or you deserve someone better than her. I would have this talk sooner rather than later. Good Luck Some good info here. I have a feeling she won't want to move back home now. Can you direct me to this 180 you mentioned?
Steadfast Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) I do love her very much and she's my best friend. I guess I'm just so surprised that I'm willing to try anything to keep it together. Hell, a few weeks ago we were discussing plans for our new kitchen and a summer vacation - it seemed better than ever. I don't want to quit prematurely. I do feel like she is just asking for a license to cheat, but TBH I'm actually OK with that. We've always been a jealousy-free couple. It's the dishonesty that kills me. Interesting. You'd be OK with her cheating if she were honest about it? Does she know this? If so, there is little reason to continue the charade of separating to 'think about the marriage' because that is not what she is doing. At this point, it matters little what you're willing to do or not do; it's what she wants to do that's controlling your destiny. And what she wants to do is spend time with her new man. Your wife checked out long ago; it only seems premature and sudden to you. That's not love friend. What difference does it make if I give the separation a couple months, do my thing and then re-evaluate? I'm OK financially without her and she's agreed to leave everything with me, except for a small amount of cash. No difference whatsoever, in your case. Many couples have this arrangement for years...their whole adult lives. You do your thing and she does hers. In my opinion, it will sour future relationships for you because very few people really want or desire this type of permissive lifestyle. It isn't ideal for long term happiness. There are those that say otherwise tho. It's your choice. Or is it? Perhaps one day you'll realize you settled for this. However, if your idea of a truly meaningful marriage relationship does someday evolve into wanting trust, devotion and monogamy, then you'll probably wish to divorce this woman and move on. I can't be sure, but I'd be willing to wager that your lack of jealousy isn't something your wife finds attractive. A bit of jealousy can assure a women that you do truly love her and is seen as an indication that she really means something to you. I have no idea if this applies in your case, but it's possible. I do know this: Women do not leave men they are in love with. Ever. Edited December 30, 2010 by Steadfast
goingstrong Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Some good info here. I have a feeling she won't want to move back home now. Can you direct me to this 180 you mentioned? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000476;p=0
2010_Sorry Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Analogman. Everyone is giving you very sound advice, but only you know what is best for you. If you decide to give the separation some time and hold out hope for reconciliation, you could be opening yourself up for a ton of heartache and pain. On the flip side, if she recognizes that she still loves you and never wants to do this again... you both could work through this and become strong again. The latter, I believe happens ONLY in rare occasions and requires a desire by both parties... which I don't think she has. IC is a great idea... just at least to talk through the pain and accept where things are. Try getting "Getting Past the Affair: A program to hel you cope, heal and move on - together or apart". It really addresses ALL of the feelings that you are feeling right now, and how best to handle them for your own healing. Great book! Good luck analog. I am sure this is very difficult. We are all here for you!!
Author analogman Posted December 30, 2010 Author Posted December 30, 2010 I really appreciate all the feedback. It's nice to have somewhere to vent. I have access to her phone and I can see she's been texting the OM fairly regularly all week. I'm planning to present the ultimatum today - she needs to commit 100% or we're done. I tend to think it's over, but we'll see.
seibert253 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Some good info here. I have a feeling she won't want to move back home now. Can you direct me to this 180 you mentioned? Here you go: 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it) So here's the list: Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.No frequent phone calls.Don't point out "good points" in marriage.Don't follow her/him around the house.Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.Don't ask for reassurances.Don't buy or give gifts.Don't schedule dates together.Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!Don't be overly enthusiastic.Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." (Poodlepapa)
Author analogman Posted December 30, 2010 Author Posted December 30, 2010 Well, my wife just came home to grab a few things (she's moving into a new apt tomorrow) and I laid down the law. As expected, she isn't willing to accept the restrictions (no contact w/ OM, IC/MC, etc). Oddly, I'm actually OK with this - at least now I know and I can move on. Now it's time to go have fun with friends and enjoy the New Year. I would like to remain friends with her, but I don't know if or when that would be possible. I told her to expect D papers soon. It was very satisfying! Thanks again to everyone for their input. Much appreciated!!
mark982 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 very few people can remain friends with their ex. prepare for war.
YellowShark Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Well, my wife just came home to grab a few things (she's moving into a new apt tomorrow) and I laid down the law. As expected, she isn't willing to accept the restrictions (no contact w/ OM, IC/MC, etc). Oddly, I'm actually OK with this - at least now I know and I can move on. Yup. You are now free analogman to move on and find a quality woman who doesn't make out with mutual friends after you go to bed.. or kiss and flirt with men she meets at bars while married to you. Thats where I am at now. (I pity my EX's next hostage, he will only get more of what you and I have been handed by these sick, toxic women. )
Steadfast Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Well, my wife just came home to grab a few things (she's moving into a new apt tomorrow) and I laid down the law. As expected, she isn't willing to accept the restrictions (no contact w/ OM, IC/MC, etc). Oddly, I'm actually OK with this - at least now I know and I can move on. Now it's time to go have fun with friends and enjoy the New Year. I would like to remain friends with her, but I don't know if or when that would be possible. I told her to expect D papers soon. It was very satisfying! Thanks again to everyone for their input. Much appreciated!! She probably thinks you're bluffing. I can promise a strong reaction when the divorce becomes a reality. Affair fog is very strong; like under the influence or having a drug dependency. When it wears off...watch out. My ex was the same. I didn't know her anymore. Now, I don't want to.
YellowShark Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 She probably thinks you're bluffing. I can promise a strong reaction when the divorce becomes a reality. Well if my wife was making out with a mutual friend after I went to bed, and kissing and flirting with guys she meets at bars I leave her sorry ass too. Hey wait a sec... I did! HA! And you're soooooo right Steadfast, I didn't know her anymore, and now, I don't want to either.
Recommended Posts