that girl Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Flowers are not a horrible Christmas present. They are not an unreasonable Christmas present. They are a totally appropriate Christmas present. Are flowers better than a sharp poke in the eye? Of course. But whenever you give a gift, if the reciever is dissapointed, you missed the mark. Furthermore, many people on this thread have said they can understand why she would be dissapointed, so it isn't some crazy opinion of hers. It is possible for someone to have unrealistic expectations, but there is no evidence the OP had unrealistic expectations. I don't think money was the issue, but let's pretend that it was. She already spent a lot of money on him for his birthday, so she is obviously willing to give what she wants to get. She isn't a user. She is entitled to be dissapointed. That doesn't mean this is a dump worthy offense or he is a horrible person. He misfired, she can likely avoid that in future by making her expectations clearer in future. For me, Christmas is something communal and people generally buy generic gifts for everyone. I dont expect to be wowed by a Christmas gift. I merely want something that I can use like a pair of new sandals or a nice towel. I dont give a damn about vain symbolism crap that women care so much about. As long as its usable, its enough for me. That is your opinion, but you don't speak for all men. I know guys who have been dissapointed with generic gifts of neckties or cologne. Making an effort to figure out something the reciever will enjoy is always good form.
northern_sky Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 What kind of people get something out of "interpreting" a post such as this OP as proof of the posters' atrocious character? The posts of her haters say a lot more about these character assassins than they say about her. Many sad, angry, insecure folks (on this thread, all men) who need to be "right" about stuff that has absolutely no bearing upon them; who need to try to drag other people into the negative false world where they live. WHY? To the OP: Please don't think that these vulture-like posters represent all men and women here. Most of us agree that the flowers were not really a great Christmas gift and the fact that he gave his Mom the same ones made them a worse gift. Since you think a lot of your boyfriend, it looks like you'll need to be doing some pointed hinting for future gift-giving occasions. Best case scenario; you'll find a relaxed time when you can actually bring up your befuddlement with finding his Mom with the same bouquet - I hope, in a humorous way. I'm sure you can find a tactful, non threatening way to let him know that a gift showing that he thought about you personally and what you like would be meaningful to you. Since he cares about you, he'll be happy to do something special for you to please you, just like you would do for him. Isn't that what great love relationships are based upon? Although I agree with your post in relation to the OP, I kind of wish you'd follow your own advice elsewhere.
musemaj11 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 I don't know why it's vanity (literally, it seems like a misuse of the word) to want someone to recognize your importance in their life by putting some thought into the gift chosen. Whether something means anything or nothing is all in your mind. Why put so much emphasis on something that is inherently so trivial? Why not look at the bigger picture instead? Or focus on specific behavior that actually means something such as if the girl complains that she is feeling sick, the guy's subsequent response will determine a more valid judgment of how much he cares about her. Personally I see little value in gift giving. When I give gifts on special occasions, its because Im supposed to. For me gift-giving is merely a social convention that is actually based on self interest as opposed to what it seems on the surface because lets face it, most people who give gifts expect to receive gifts back of at least equal material and emotional value when their turn comes. If you think about it, why not just buy your own gift then? I'd appreciate it more if a girlfriend made me a delicious soup when Im bed-ridden from sickness than if she bought me something supposedly 'meaningful' for Christmas. One is an act out of genuine care for my well-being while the other is a mere romanticized fantasy with little real intrinsic worth.
pookster72 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 some guys (and people in general) are just horrible with gift-giving. if everything else in the relationship seems to be going well and he seems attentive and into you then i wouldn't worry about it. you hadn't been together that long and you didn't give him much help. next time try to be a little bit more vocal about things you'd be interested in getting if stuff like that is important to you.
Feelin Frisky Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Giving a 1-800 Flowers bouquet for Christmas is like giving a get-well card for your birthday and crossing out get well and writing in Happy Birthday. Gee, don't kill yourself trying to tell me how important I am. yanowutimsayin?
Stung Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Inspired by Zengirl's response, I have to ask everyone, which is more important? Christmas gift or Birthday gift? For me, Christmas is something communal and people generally buy generic gifts for everyone. I dont expect to be wowed by a Christmas gift. I merely want something that I can use like a pair of new sandals or a nice towel. I dont give a damn about vain symbolism crap that women care so much about. As long as its usable, its enough for me. But Birthday is more personal and intimate. Its only for one person. I would expect to get a gift from a significant other that wows me. I think both are important. I put a lot of thought and effort into individual gifts for both days, particularly for someone I am close to like a lover or close family member. I'm not sure why you target the symbolism with which many women regard gifts as 'vain'. I think of it more as 'sentimental,' but maybe we are thinking of very different symbols. For the record, as per my earlier posts, I am on the OP's boyfriends' side in this matter, overall. He asked for help, she miscommunicated, and she is overreacting to the fallout from her own miscommunication. However, I do think flowers are an inappropriate and lame-duck Christmas gift, both for her AND for his mother. Flowers are a lovely gesture, but rarely a thoughtful, sentimental or otherwise significant memento, which is the quality many women are truly looking for in gifts. A living plant would be far better, at least that would keep, and if the recipient has any interest in gardening it would be a thoughtful nod to their hobby.
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Although I agree with your post in relation to the OP, I kind of wish you'd follow your own advice elsewhere. Huh? I always follow my own advice, here and elsewhere. If I don't agree with someone (or am appalled with what they've posted, like I have been with a lot of the trashing of the OP here), you can count on me to say so. I also like to offer suggestions that I believe could be helpful, whether they're taken that way, ignored, or whatever.
that girl Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Why put so much emphasis on something that is inherently so trivial? It isn't inherently trivial. The OP puts value in the effort taken in selecting a present and that isn't illogical. When you enjoy making someone happy, you're more likely to put effort into selecting a gift. Now I'm not saying that the OP's bf doesn't care about her, just that gifts can be a way to show someone that you think about them by selecting a considerate gift and he missed the mark. Now she feels undervalued. It isn't "a mere romanticized fantasy with little real intrinsic worth" to hunt down a gift you know someone will love. I understand why you aren't into gifts musemaj11, but I think you need to be willing to understand why someone else might be.
musemaj11 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) It isn't inherently trivial. The OP puts value in the effort taken in selecting a present and that isn't illogical. When you enjoy making someone happy, you're more likely to put effort into selecting a gift. Now I'm not saying that the OP's bf doesn't care about her, just that gifts can be a way to show someone that you think about them by selecting a considerate gift and he missed the mark. Now she feels undervalued. It isn't "a mere romanticized fantasy with little real intrinsic worth" to hunt down a gift you know someone will love. I understand why you aren't into gifts musemaj11, but I think you need to be willing to understand why someone else might be. Yes, I fully understand that some people feel that something has a meaning even when it actually means nothing. In my parents' culture, it is a disrespect to step into a house with your left foot first. I tolerate their belief, but that doesnt mean I dont think they believe in something really idiotic. The OP's bf obviously doesnt see value in gift-giving either. But still he tried to reach out. Its like a Chinese who comes to USA and doesnt understand the concept of Christmas gift so he asks his friend if she wants something from him for Christmas and the friend says no. But then she gets upset when he really doesnt buy her anything. Edited December 30, 2010 by musemaj11
NoLongerSad Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Yes, I fully understand that some people feel that something has a meaning even when it actually means nothing. In my parents' culture, it is a disrespect to step into a house with your left foot first. I tolerate their belief, but that doesnt mean I dont think they believe in something really idiotic. The OP's bf obviously doesnt see value in gift-giving either. But still he tried to reach out. Its like a Chinese who comes to USA and doesnt understand the concept of Christmas gift so he asks his friend if she wants something from him for Christmas and the friend says no. But then she gets upset when he really doesnt buy her anything. Apparently there are very few posters in this thread who have ever seen "A Charlie Brown Christmas" or "A Christmas Carol," or if they have, perhaps haven't really gotten "the point." This is a culture which is now so ennervated with the assumption of massive consumerism that a holiday like Christmas is rendered meaningless without being the recipient of gifts which the recipient (rather than the giver) considers meaningful and appropriate. What's amazing about this thread is just how many people are actually offended by the notion that someone might not receive exactly what they want for a Christmas gift from a loved one. This is now an utterly classless society in which people feel at liberty to vomit their most personal details on Twitter and Facebook. What else can be expected? (Classless meaning "lacking in class," not socialist or communist.)
Els Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 What's REALLY amazing about the thread is that someone who calls the OP and others a whole bevy of disrespectful names based on fantasy imaginations of things they did not even say, is complaining about our society being classless.
Els Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Yes, I fully understand that some people feel that something has a meaning even when it actually means nothing. In my parents' culture, it is a disrespect to step into a house with your left foot first. I tolerate their belief, but that doesnt mean I dont think they believe in something really idiotic. The OP's bf obviously doesnt see value in gift-giving either. But still he tried to reach out. Its like a Chinese who comes to USA and doesnt understand the concept of Christmas gift so he asks his friend if she wants something from him for Christmas and the friend says no. But then she gets upset when he really doesnt buy her anything. You are missing the point, that disappointment is a completely normal feeling and nobody should be made to feel like [cue all insults spewed on this thread] for FEELING it. What matters is how one reacts to it. Nobody is suggesting that the OP ditch the guy or throw a big fuss about it, and neither did she say she did. If a man with an ill wife feels sexually frustrated and vents about it privately but makes no mention of it to her because he doesn't want her to feel bad about it, are you going to crucify him for having the gall to FEEL sexually frustrated while his wife is sick abed?
NoLongerSad Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 What's REALLY amazing about the thread is that someone who calls the OP and others a whole bevy of disrespectful names based on fantasy imaginations of things they did not even say, is complaining about our society being classless. Look, I "get it." To a lot of people, Christmas is pretty much all about the gifts that you get, and if you don't get what you think you're entitled to, then you have a right to feel offended by that. That's what "massive materialism" or "massive consumerism" is. You and I just have completely different viewpoints about what various holidays are supposed to mean. You think Christmas is about getting gifts. Since more people seem to agree with you (and the OP) then me, at least here, that means you're "right" because majority rules. That's why we have the society we have, right?
NoLongerSad Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 You are missing the point, that disappointment is a completely normal feeling and nobody should be made to feel like [cue all insults spewed on this thread] for FEELING it. What matters is how one reacts to it. Nobody is suggesting that the OP ditch the guy or throw a big fuss about it, and neither did she say she did. If a man with an ill wife feels sexually frustrated and vents about it privately but makes no mention of it to her because he doesn't want her to feel bad about it, are you going to crucify him for having the gall to FEEL sexually frustrated while his wife is sick abed? No, the feeling of disappointment is only "normal" among the group of people who think that the meaning of Christmas resides in what material gifts one is fortunate enough to be the recipient of. I for one did suggest that OP ditch her bf, because they don't sound very compatible.
anne1707 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 This thread has taken an unfortunate turn due to one or two posters deciding that the OP is a golddigging heartless b&tch who will only be happy if a man spends ridiculous amounts of money on her. So I thought it might be good to quote the opening post again to see what was actually said. For 4 months now, I have been seeing this wonderful, sensitive, caring and loving guy. He has everything I look for. He is a good at communication and speaks his mond. He is a little bit of a free spirit and very candid person. The OP obviously thinks very highly of her boyfriend He asked me what I wanted for Xmas. I dont know anyone who would actually list items they want. I didnt feel I needed to having to say it. He should have thought about something on his own. Anyway...I said there is nothing I need. Maybe a touch idealistic but to be honest I really do think that at 4 months, somebody should have ideas for what to get somebody without a list (unlike us who have been married 15 years and have therefore bought for 15 birthdays, 15 Christmases, 15 Valentines days, 15 anniversaries etc). On the 24th afternoon, he showed up at my place with a large bouquet of flowers. When I went to his mother's house later in the evening, I noticed he had gotten her the exact same bouquet. Nothing particularly wrong at this stage until..... He never offered me anything else. On his birthday, 2 weeks before, I got him a very nice and thoughtful gift and took him and his mother to a very nice dinner in a pricey restaurant. No other presents and just flowers is an easy option. It shows a lack of thought in gift buying for both the girlfriend and the mother. The fact that both bouquets are identical just adds to this. I know that when my H buys me flowers for special occasions, he does not just buy a standard bouquet but will be specific about colours and flowers based on what he knows my personal preferences are. I like the flowers. They are nice but my issue is that he did not bother thinking about anything for me. I am hurt that he would not bother. It's not the gift but the lack of effort and thought. I am worried that this may dictate the lack of effort in the future since he is doing this so early in our relationship. I dont know what to do. Let it go or address it with him. I am not even sure what to tell him. This is apparently who he is and I am not interested in changing him but....I am hurt and very disapointed. Please note - the OP likes the flowers. Her concern is that there was no more thought than that and is this an indicator for the future. After all, if this is the best effort he can make now when the relationship is all new, exciting honeymoon stage, what would he be like in years to come. Does this indicate that he may not make an effort in other areas of the relationship - and not restricted to gift giving - but in making an effort for the relationship itself. Another point to emphasise - the OP does not want to change him. But she is right to express her concerns at an early stage if she has any rather than let this continue and become a greater problem between them. Anyone with thoughts and comments, I appreciate it. RealGee If you are still here and reading this thread, my thoughts are that if he is generally good at communicating then you do need to talk to your boyfriend about this. Choose your moment and your words carefully. Don't put this all on him - he may have taken your not needing anything too literally but with no harm meant. Some people (men and women) are just not good at gift buying and do not see the importance of it (as we have seen by some opinions expressed here in this thread). But the issue is that this does matter to you and that is not unreasonable. Talk to him now and find a compromise that works for you both. That may mean you do have to give him some ideas or drop some not so very subtle hints but that happens in a lot of relationships contrary to what you may think.
Els Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Look, I "get it." To a lot of people, Christmas is pretty much all about the gifts that you get, and if you don't get what you think you're entitled to, then you have a right to feel offended by that. That's what "massive materialism" or "massive consumerism" is. You and I just have completely different viewpoints about what various holidays are supposed to mean. You think Christmas is about getting gifts. Since more people seem to agree with you (and the OP) then me, at least here, that means you're "right" because majority rules. That's why we have the society we have, right? Yeah, because simply being disappointed in a gift apparently means that that is ALL you think Christmas is about, amirite? Should we then tell the people who are frustrated about not getting sex, that that is ALL they want out of a relationship?
zengirl Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Whether something means anything or nothing is all in your mind. Why put so much emphasis on something that is inherently so trivial? Why not look at the bigger picture instead? Or focus on specific behavior that actually means something such as if the girl complains that she is feeling sick, the guy's subsequent response will determine a more valid judgment of how much he cares about her. Of course the bigger picture is important. Nobody's saying she should break up with him over it. Personally, I think the biggest red flag is he also got his mother the same, lazy bouquet. He's not showing to be thoughtful in this area. If it's only related to gift-giving. . . maybe he feels frustrated by it or never knows what to get, well, that doesn't make him a bad guy. A bit of a dolt, sure, but if he does everything else right, well . . . everyone has flaws, and this one isn't fatal. The OP still doesn't have tolike it and should be able to feel the way she feels and be disappointed. Personally I see little value in gift giving. When I give gifts on special occasions, its because Im supposed to. For me gift-giving is merely a social convention that is actually based on self interest as opposed to what it seems on the surface because lets face it, most people who give gifts expect to receive gifts back of at least equal material and emotional value when their turn comes. If you think about it, why not just buy your own gift then? Because that's not fun! You're sucking all the joy out of gift-giving with this. I love giving gifts, picking out just the right gift for each person, and I'd be really disappointed if my boyfriend didn't put effort into my gift. And it's not about money. My dad gave me a ton of money, which I'll use --- it's definitely helpful --- but he didn't even give me a card or wrap anything, and I would have honestly rather something that cost $5 that he had time to think about. He gave me 5 $100 bills, all folded up, and said, "I don't wrap or shop." My Mom and Step-father gave me several gifts I know they'd gone to trouble to select just for me. They wrapped everything nicely. They still write "Santa" on a few of the little gifts, even though none of us believes in Santa, and so do I with theirs. It's fun! All of their gifts combined cost WAY less than $500, but I enjoyed them so much more than the cash and felt so much more appreciated. And yes, it shows thoughftulness and appreciation for the people you love, if you do it with thoughtfulness, and not like it's some terrible chore. I'd appreciate it more if a girlfriend made me a delicious soup when Im bed-ridden from sickness than if she bought me something supposedly 'meaningful' for Christmas. One is an act out of genuine care for my well-being while the other is a mere romanticized fantasy with little real intrinsic worth. Well, I insist upon BOTH. I want someone who is thoughtful at Christmas, thoughtful when I'm sick, thoughtful when I'm stressed with work, etc. I don't need someone to spend a lot of money. I don't give a flying flap about that, but I do require them to spend a lot of thought. That doesn't mean I'd dump a guy like the OP's boyfriend, if he was thoughftul in other areas, but I'd find a way to express my disappointment so that he knew it was important to put thought into gifts and occasions, just like I'd do for him. Yes, I fully understand that some people feel that something has a meaning even when it actually means nothing. This is where you're wrong. Who are you to decide it means nothing? Who are you to decide what means something? One poster thinks giving a girl flowers is the same as saying he's in love with her. You think birthdays are more important than Christmas. Everyone has different views and feelings, and none of them are wrong. Moreover, this is a very commonly shared value, that Christmas is a time for giving gifts, and that we give the people we care about gifts that require thought and energy. Apparently there are very few posters in this thread who have ever seen "A Charlie Brown Christmas" or "A Christmas Carol," or if they have, perhaps haven't really gotten "the point." This is a culture which is now so ennervated with the assumption of massive consumerism that a holiday like Christmas is rendered meaningless without being the recipient of gifts which the recipient (rather than the giver) considers meaningful and appropriate. What's amazing about this thread is just how many people are actually offended by the notion that someone might not receive exactly what they want for a Christmas gift from a loved one. This is now an utterly classless society in which people feel at liberty to vomit their most personal details on Twitter and Facebook. What else can be expected? (Classless meaning "lacking in class," not socialist or communist.) Ever seen the Gift of the Magi? I love that, as well as the two titles you just named. But the Gift of the Magi is my favorite. Are their gifts useful, in the end? No. But they're beautiful, because each one sacrificed something dear to do something wonderful for the other. I wouldn't say "A Christmas Carol" says Christmas gifts are unneccesary or bad . . . in fact, it celebrates thoughtfulness and giving at Christmas. As does "A Charlie Brown Christmas" in fact. It's not about money, though, but about thought and energy. What the Cratchetts give each other is limited by their poverty, but not by their imagination or charity of spirit. The OP's boyfriend was lazy and uninspired, not impoverished. He's no shining example of Christmas, like they are.
NoLongerSad Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Hmmmm....I guess when a woman says "There's nothing that I need," the man should not take her at her word? I always thought that when a woman says "no," it means "no." That's what men are taught to expect, anyway. So by inference, if for example a man is on a date with a woman, and he asks her if she would like to do anything physical with him, and she says "No, there's nothing I need," he should assume she didn't mean what she said, and barge right ahead? Someone else mentioned that the OP didn't say what she had gotten her bf for Christmas. I think before anyone continues to lavish any more criticism upon the OP's bf, we would need to hear from her what she bought her bf for Christmas, and what she bought her mother for Christmas.
zengirl Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Hmmmm....I guess when a woman says "There's nothing that I need," the man should not take her at her word? Well, that doesn't exclude the possibility that there's something she wants. Though many people have agreed -- including most who disagree with you -- that she was lacking in communication. However, that does not make his lazy gift-giving better. I always thought that when a woman says "no," it means "no." That's what men are taught to expect, anyway. So by inference, if for example a man is on a date with a woman, and he asks her if she would like to do anything physical with him, and she says "No, there's nothing I need," he should assume she didn't mean what she said, and barge right ahead? This is irrelevant. And she did not say, "Don't buy me a gift! It's unwelcome!" that I saw. That'd be more equivalent to this. Also, why on earth would she add the, "There's nothing I need." What a weird response, and kind of a weird question ("Would you like to do something physical with me?"). Someone else mentioned that the OP didn't say what she had gotten her bf for Christmas. I think before anyone continues to lavish any more criticism upon the OP's bf, we would need to hear from her what she bought her bf for Christmas, and what she bought her mother for Christmas. Well, I'm curious too, but after all the conflict, I doubt she's coming back in here. Even if her gifts were crap, his still were, too. Maybe it would make HER criticism of it invalid, but not mine. My gifts are always fantastic, and I can critique people for gift-laziness without hypocrisy. So, her answer to those questions wouldn't change MY criticism.
NoLongerSad Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 My gifts are always fantastic, and I can critique people for gift-laziness without hypocrisy.You're certainly entitled to measure your self-worth as a person by what kind of gifts you give, and how much you persuade yourself they mean to other people. Why you think anyone else should be measured that way has yet to be explained, and I really don't think you can do that, because first, you would have to be able to explain why you think anyone really cares about what gifts you give to them, and if so, why that matters to you.
sally4sara Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 This could be so much worse. One of my friends complained to me that her BF of 8 years got her - TEA! This girl enjoys a cup of tea now and then but hell! she HAS tea and pretty fancy tea at that already!
NoLongerSad Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 This could be so much worse. One of my friends complained to me that her BF of 8 years got her - TEA! This girl enjoys a cup of tea now and then but hell! she HAS tea and pretty fancy tea at that already! Assuming the logic involved was similar to the logic in support of OP in this thread, the following might have been the conversation that preceded that gifting: BF: "Can you give me a hint as to what gift you would like?" GF: "Truthfully, I don't need anything, but as you know, I really like a good cuppa tea." [Later after BF gives GF tea for her gift]--GF: "How could you! How thoughtless! How lazy of you! And, you got your mother the exact same tea that you got me, so not only don't I want the gift you got me, I'm mad because I'm jealous that you also got the same thing for your mom!"
beachgirll2011 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 OK...just to clarify...i don't think it was the amount of money he spent. I am dating this guy and for xmas he prob spent like $25 bucks...i was ECSTATIC!!!! You know why??? Because when we first went out I mentioned I luv looking at the stars at night. So he went out and bought me one of those projectors that make stars glow on your ceiling...corny? YES but I luved it b/c it showed he put something called THOUGHT into the gift. And it prob cost the same as a bunch of flowers that her guy probably just picked up from the grocery store on the way to her house after dropping off the SAME flowers at his mommy's. That is why she needs to move on b/c if he is careless now imagine a few months down the road. Any guy who feels the flowers were ok shouldn't be dating...and if they are it is with needy girls who put up with that and have no backbone. I stand by my advice...move on. You can do BETTER!!!!!!
Feelin Frisky Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 Hmmmm....I guess when a woman says "There's nothing that I need," the man should not take her at her word?... Exactly. Learn it, know it, live it. This is a ludicrous argument because those who make it are applying hindsight to a situation where she had no pre-preparation to consider what she wanted. She just did the modest thing in the moment and tried not to place any big burden on him. But of course she wants a token of what she means to him at this time. Who doesn't? I'm a guy and I even understand that. She gave him the benefit of the doubt with his puny phone-in gift but discovering his mother got the same told her her benefit of the doubt was too generous. People--including, if not especially, women--are going to answer the "what should I get you for Christmas" question the same way often if they haven't yet considered it and/or don't have an idea of what it is precisely that they want. If someone asked you a question like this at a time when you haven't yet considered it, are you going to say you will have the perfectly thought out answer and lay it there to the letter? Mercy.
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