Where do i go? Torn and hurt.

[spice4life]

Go complete NC with the OW and separate from your wife, only deal with her when it has to do with the kids. Be alone and stick to counselling, figure things out. Space to think, space to sort you out before making a decision. You can't just hop out of your marriage and straight into the arms of the OW and you can't just pop back into your marriage either. Being alone is something that could help you in the long run. To stay and continue contact with the OW and stay married is not fair to either woman and also your kids.

 

I totally agree with wwiu..this excellent advice. You need to take a break from both women to sort yourself out and get your head clear. DO NOT make any decisions right now. Be on your own for a while without emotional interference from both women. This is your life. You need time and space to figure out why you were unhappy in your marriage and to determine whether or not it's fixable. Your OW needs to respect this and leave you alone so you can gain some clarity. Keep your relationship with her strictly professional so you can put some emotional distance between you. It's necessary right now no matter how much it will hurt either of you.

 

You mentioned that this is your business? Can you work from your place to give you some space from the OW? Definitely get your own place too. taking some time and space isn't going to be too painful for either your W or the OW. They need to understand it's what YOU need right now. As long as you are doing your part, taking care of the kids and your business, you are doing the right thing. No other decisions need to be made at this point. If either of these women care about YOU, they will understand and respect this decision. it is okay to re-evaluate your life if you are not happy. As a matter of fact, it's the right thing to do if you are not happy. By setting appropriate boundaries in both cases will also force them to take a look at themselves to determine what they want and need as well. Their happiness should not be rested completely upon your shoulders. If you think it is, then look at what you are doing to create it.

 

Good luck and I hope you are able to find the right answers for you.

[September]

Hi, hope you are doing okay...

 

I don't really have any magic advice for you other than I get what you are going through.

 

I had a two year relationship with a MM (I was also M at the time). After both of our D-Days we chose to be together and left our partner's. I didn't want to try and save my M because I was incredibly in love with OM. He also made that statement to his W and his family.

 

He had many discussions with his family about starting a new life with me and he had their full support. They knew that he had been in a M not dissimilar to your's and was very, very unhappy. They said to him that when he spoke about me, he lit up. At their last discussion, he came back telling me that they were very keen to meet the girl that made him so happy.

 

Now to some that may sound awful because it appeared they were advocating the A but it wasn't to them. For many years, they were excluded from his family because everything was done with her family. They had been left out from day 1 and she never made any effort with them. When it came to Birthdays and Christmas, they were hardly ever invited and unless they pushed for it, were given time after the fact. So in a way I understand why they supported their Son. I love my children very much and no matter what they do, I will always be there for them.

 

He ended up going back home 6 weeks after leaving and I still to this day don't know what went wrong (that was one year ago). I still miss him dreadfully and I have been told by many people that he is miserable. But that is what he has chosen and I cannot do anything about it. I suppose what I am saying is, choose wisely because yes people are going to get hurt but in the long run, it is your life and we only have one to live, so make sure that you are going to be with the one that makes you feel happy and loved. If you are happy, it will radiate.

Edited December 28, 2010 by September
spelling

[Heather1]

I love that Sept., that he needs to find his own happiness.

 

My situation is that MM friends just love me, and his employee's. At this point, it's OK to just be true to yourself because nothing's going to be an easy answer. Don't stay w/ your W out of obligation, that's not fair either. My In-laws stayed together for 50 miserable years.

 

I stay w/ my H because we have the same friends that support our M (in our home town) & our parents are friends. His brother had my Mom over for Christmas dinner & our families get along really well.

 

I don't think anyone should be M to someone who isolates them from their family. My FIL was the biggest jerk (RIP) there could be, and I sucked it up for my H & my kids have no idea what my true feelings are toward him. Of course, I had an A too so I didn't do mentally so well myself.

 

I think the go it alone advice is good. Throughout my A, I read a lot of books, went to CODA meetings, went to relationship classes & tried to figure out how I got into the whole mess. I'm actually still trying to figure out how to get OUT of it.

 

If nothing else, and you end up w/ OW & the reality shows up, at least you know that an A is not the answer to your problems. Remember that out of this if nothing else.

[Quiet Storm]

I didn't say it was fine for my parents to spend christmas with ow. What do I do say "Dad, you're not allowed to go?"

 

You don't say that your not ALLOWED to go, but you say "Dad, I am still married to my wife and you going to Christmas with OW is very disrespectful to my wife, marriage and children. Please, out of respect for my family, do not socialize with OW". That statement alone may give him something to think about.

 

EVERYONE...your wife, your parents, your OW, probably even your kids, can see your weakness and they are all using YOUR WEAKNESS to suit their own agendas. No one takes you seriously anymore.

 

But it is not hopeless. You can change this dynamic.

 

Stop being the doormat. Be assertive. Figure out what you want and STICK TO IT. Stand by your decision, accept the choices you have made and deal with YOUR OWN MESS. That is what being a man is all about. It is not going to be easy, but crying POOR ME, is not going to solve your problems. You have gotten into this situation by your OWN CHOICES.

 

This didn't "just happen" to you. Stop blaming your wife and your parents. You said yourself that your wife thought the marriage was good. You played the part of good husband because you were not assertive enough to address the marriage issues with her. If you had been a strong, assertive man she would not keep calling your work like that. She doesn't respect you, and it's because you don't demand or even EXPECT respect. (sad) The "movie" conversation... she knew it was not in her budget, but hoped you would cave. Instead of telling her to "do what she wants" you should have said something like "It is irresponsible to spend the grocery/bill/ mortgage money on the movies. Please be a responsible adult and do not spend more than our budget allows. You can make your own decision but my feelings on this matter should be clear to you. I do not want to discuss this any longer." Make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that you do not agree with her decision. No wiggle room. No further discussion. Once she knows you will not waiver, this will cause her focus to change. She will not be thinking about how she can manipulate you into getting her way- she will be thinking about HER actions. "Hmmm....maybe spending the bill $$ on movies IS irresponsible."

 

Continuously being assertive will change the way she & others are with you. They know you're weak so they disregard your opinions. No individual can MAKE you do ANYTHING. Giving others so much power WEAKENS you.

 

I am sorry if I am harsh, but I think you really need to man-up.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Quiet Storm

[spice4life]

You don't say that your not ALLOWED to go, but you say "Dad, I am still married to my wife and you going to Christmas with OW is very disrespectful to my wife, marriage and children. Please, out of respect for my family, do not socialize with OW". That statement alone may give him something to think about.

 

EVERYONE...your wife, your parents, your OW, probably even your kids, can see your weakness and they are all using YOUR WEAKNESS to suit their own agendas. No one takes you seriously anymore.

 

But it is not hopeless. You can change this dynamic.

 

Stop being the doormat. Be assertive. Figure out what you want and STICK TO IT. Stand by your decision, accept the choices you have made and deal with YOUR OWN MESS. That is what being a man is all about. It is not going to be easy, but crying POOR ME, is not going to solve your problems. You have gotten into this situation by your OWN CHOICES.

 

This didn't "just happen" to you. Stop blaming your wife and your parents. You said yourself that your wife thought the marriage was good. You played the part of good husband because you were not assertive enough to address the marriage issues with her. If you had been a strong, assertive man she would not keep calling your work like that. She doesn't respect you, and it's because you don't demand or even EXPECT respect. (sad) The "movie" conversation... she knew it was not in her budget, but hoped you would cave. Instead of telling her to "do what she wants" you should have said something like "It is irresponsible to spend the grocery/bill/ mortgage money on the movies. Please be a responsible adult and do not spend more than our budget allows. You can make your own decision but my feelings on this matter should be clear to you. I do not want to discuss this any longer." Make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that you do not agree with her decision. No wiggle room. No further discussion. Once she knows you will not waiver, this will cause her focus to change. She will not be thinking about how she can manipulate you into getting her way- she will be thinking about HER actions. "Hmmm....maybe spending the bill $$ on movies IS irresponsible."

 

Continuously being assertive will change the way she & others are with you. They know you're weak so they disregard your opinions. No individual can MAKE you do ANYTHING. Giving others so much power WEAKENS you.

 

I am sorry if I am harsh, but I think you really need to man-up.

 

Not trying to sound harsh either howmehere, but quietstorm has a very valid point. From what you have posted, it seems like everyone is running rip-shod all over you. Nobody is taking how YOU feel into consideration. Your OW is inviting your parents to Christmas dinner, your BS is trying to manipulate you into staying with your parents when you need space to think, your OW working for you is making you think you might have to leave YOUR OWN business if you stay married...wow, just wow. Yes, this screams "people pleaser" loud and clear. It's good that you are now beginning to recognize it and that is 50% of the battle. The rest is taking action to figure out why you allow this to happen and then fixing it so it doesn't happen again.

 

As I've said before, it is perfectly fine to take a break to give yourself a chance to sort things out if you are not happy. It is your life. It is not only fine, it is also fair, not only to you, but to everyone else involved as well. It takes a lot of courage to stand up say "STOP" the merry-go-round and let me figure out why I'm not happy. If you are in counseling that's great...keep going because it will give you an objective view point to help guide you through these rough waters to help you find the answers you are seeking.

 

I wish you the best on this journey and hope that you stand up for yourself and set appropriate boundaries with the others, so you can figure this all out. Good luck and keep us posted! Don't be afraid to post because it will help you see other perspectives that might help you or that you haven't thought of yet.

[White Flower]

I am at a loss as to what to do. I don’t know who to be with. If I don’t act soon, it won’t be my choice and I may just lose them both

Oh Lord, HMH!

 

Your story is almost word-for-word verbatum to one of my MM's As with an exOW, wow. I wish we could PM, maybe you should upgrade. Actually, I will tell MM (or exMM) about you and see what he can offer you in the way of advice. Did you say how old everyone is? That might be good to know, and is this your first affair?

 

Until later, best of luck.

WF.

[HowMeHere]

If you are a truthful MM and you really love your OW then leave her alone and sort your M out.

Please believe me I am an xOW who still loves my xMM with every bone in my body, even though I know he will never leave.

DO NOT let your OW believe something could be if it couldn't be....it will only cause more heartbreak...

 

LET HER GO....

 

I can't say that it's something that couldn't be.

 

Man you have really put yourself into one clucked up situation. I feel badly for you and your family minus your parents who no matter how they feel about your wife are disrespectful and lacking simple boundaries. (Imagine your wife having Christmas dinner with your father's mistress. How would your mom feel about that?) Also, since you are in counseling I think you should explore these FOO issues that clearly demonstrate that there is a lack of respect for your marriage and family.

 

The boundary issues are something i am thinking a lot about. It's so entangled with my relationship with him being a father-son, business partner, and friend. It's difficult to set boundaries with all those relationships and i am working on improving boundaries there.

 

 

I think my advice is going to be different than most here. I think you need to leave the marriage. This is probably the best thing you can do for your wife. There are men out there that will choose to treat her with respect and love her. I'm thinking long term here. Not just if it's easier for you. I'm thinking in 20 years your wife will probably be grateful for being free of you and your family. I'm not implying that you are an awful person. I'm just going by the information that you have presented to us. With that information it is IMO that any path you choose with either women is a recipe for disaster. You being alone is probably your best course.

 

I poured my heart into this relationship, and I did things that I thought were of value to the relationship. There were situations where in order for the family to get one thing, I had to work harder for the family to get it. I have done my best and worked hard, and spent the time i could with her and the kids. Can't have it both ways, can't have the things and the time all at once. One has to give for the other. And when i got the gears for things not being good enough, I worked harder, and when I got the gears for not spending enough time i got frustrated, and i would just bail. Go hang out with dad, being the closest friend i had, and not get in crap.

 

IMO soon your father will have taken over your business and your OW will be your wife. Then in a few years you will probably find that your parents don't love your OW anymore and will have disrespect for your new marriage. Add to that all of the additional stress of step-parenting your OW's children, your own kids behavior from their home breaking up to you spending time with OW/her kids, financially supporting two households, and your feelings about your kids new step-father, life isn't going to be "easier".

 

The thoguht that in a few years my family woudn't respect the ow either if we got together has crossed my mind too. It concerns me. Yes, I see the difficulties that lie there. I know it's not an easy way. The finances, the kids, the inevitable new step-father.. It's scary.

 

A lot (not all) of the behaviors that you see from your wife are probably symptoms of your lack of boundaries. The fact that your OW has a relationship with your parents and comes to visit them while your living there and supposedly trying to figure out what the heck you are doing is completely and utterly dumbfounding. Just the fact that your wife is even considering reconciling with you is telling that she herself has issues. I'm glad that she is in IC.

Ya, there are issues all around. I agree with the lack of boundaries the most. I am working on developing those. It's not an easy talk.

 

 

I totally agree with wwiu..this excellent advice. You need to take a break from both women to sort yourself out and get your head clear. DO NOT make any decisions right now. Be on your own for a while without emotional interference from both women. This is your life. You need time and space to figure out why you were unhappy in your marriage and to determine whether or not it's fixable. Your OW needs to respect this and leave you alone so you can gain some clarity. Keep your relationship with her strictly professional so you can put some emotional distance between you. It's necessary right now no matter how much it will hurt either of you.

 

You mentioned that this is your business? Can you work from your place to give you some space from the OW? Definitely get your own place too. taking some time and space isn't going to be too painful for either your W or the OW. They need to understand it's what YOU need right now. As long as you are doing your part, taking care of the kids and your business, you are doing the right thing. No other decisions need to be made at this point. If either of these women care about YOU, they will understand and respect this decision. it is okay to re-evaluate your life if you are not happy. As a matter of fact, it's the right thing to do if you are not happy. By setting appropriate boundaries in both cases will also force them to take a look at themselves to determine what they want and need as well. Their happiness should not be rested completely upon your shoulders. If you think it is, then look at what you are doing to create it.

 

Good luck and I hope you are able to find the right answers for you.

 

Thanks. I don't know about making any decisions now. I had a talk with ow today and we are going to try to back things away so I can get some clarity. But having her step away scares me. I am afraid that i'll lose both, and have made a huge mistake.

 

Hi, hope you are doing okay...

 

I don't really have any magic advice for you other than I get what you are going through.

 

I had a two year relationship with a MM (I was also M at the time). After both of our D-Days we chose to be together and left our partner's. I didn't want to try and save my M because I was incredibly in love with OM. He also made that statement to his W and his family.

 

He had many discussions with his family about starting a new life with me and he had their full support. They knew that he had been in a M not dissimilar to your's and was very, very unhappy. They said to him that when he spoke about me, he lit up. At their last discussion, he came back telling me that they were very keen to meet the girl that made him so happy.

 

Now to some that may sound awful because it appeared they were advocating the A but it wasn't to them. For many years, they were excluded from his family because everything was done with her family. They had been left out from day 1 and she never made any effort with them. When it came to Birthdays and Christmas, they were hardly ever invited and unless they pushed for it, were given time after the fact. So in a way I understand why they supported their Son. I love my children very much and no matter what they do, I will always be there for them.

 

He ended up going back home 6 weeks after leaving and I still to this day don't know what went wrong (that was one year ago). I still miss him dreadfully and I have been told by many people that he is miserable. But that is what he has chosen and I cannot do anything about it. I suppose what I am saying is, choose wisely because yes people are going to get hurt but in the long run, it is your life and we only have one to live, so make sure that you are going to be with the one that makes you feel happy and loved. If you are happy, it will radiate.

 

BS was great to my family in the beginning. She made lunch for me and my dad when we were in the area in the city, we were bouth in the same line of work. She did a lot to help out my mom, and helped with the family business a bit too. There ended up being feelings that she was unwelcome by my dad and sister, and my dad and sister felt she complained about me a lot and that frustrated them. And the relationships just split from there.

The bit about them supporting me becasue theuy see ow is better for me than bs, I see that being their point of view.

Unfortunately, rthe last few months I have felt so stressed by my indecision that happiness and relaxation has eluded me a lot no matter who I have been with. It sucks and it needs to change. I am a happy guy, and tired of feeling like i have to hide, and like it's not right for me to be happy.

 

You don't say that your not ALLOWED to go, but you say "Dad, I am still married to my wife and you going to Christmas with OW is very disrespectful to my wife, marriage and children. Please, out of respect for my family, do not socialize with OW". That statement alone may give him something to think about.

 

EVERYONE...your wife, your parents, your OW, probably even your kids, can see your weakness and they are all using YOUR WEAKNESS to suit their own agendas. No one takes you seriously anymore.

 

But it is not hopeless. You can change this dynamic.

 

Stop being the doormat. Be assertive. Figure out what you want and STICK TO IT. Stand by your decision, accept the choices you have made and deal with YOUR OWN MESS. That is what being a man is all about. It is not going to be easy, but crying POOR ME, is not going to solve your problems. You have gotten into this situation by your OWN CHOICES.

 

This didn't "just happen" to you. Stop blaming your wife and your parents. You said yourself that your wife thought the marriage was good. You played the part of good husband because you were not assertive enough to address the marriage issues with her. If you had been a strong, assertive man she would not keep calling your work like that. She doesn't respect you, and it's because you don't demand or even EXPECT respect. (sad) The "movie" conversation... she knew it was not in her budget, but hoped you would cave. Instead of telling her to "do what she wants" you should have said something like "It is irresponsible to spend the grocery/bill/ mortgage money on the movies. Please be a responsible adult and do not spend more than our budget allows. You can make your own decision but my feelings on this matter should be clear to you. I do not want to discuss this any longer." Make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that you do not agree with her decision. No wiggle room. No further discussion. Once she knows you will not waiver, this will cause her focus to change. She will not be thinking about how she can manipulate you into getting her way- she will be thinking about HER actions. "Hmmm....maybe spending the bill $$ on movies IS irresponsible."

 

Continuously being assertive will change the way she & others are with you. They know you're weak so they disregard your opinions. No individual can MAKE you do ANYTHING. Giving others so much power WEAKENS you.

 

I am sorry if I am harsh, but I think you really need to man-up.

 

Thank you very much for this insight. Ideas are one thing, but how to verbalise them and carry them out is another. Getting from the idea tot he words is difficult sometimes, apparently often. I agree that I am not taken seriously anymore because i am jsut caving and not speaking my mind. I need to change this. Getting bs to think like that would be great. As it sits now she'd rather move to a cheaper place than have to live within the confines of a budget.

 

Not trying to sound harsh either howmehere, but quietstorm has a very valid point. From what you have posted, it seems like everyone is running rip-shod all over you. Nobody is taking how YOU feel into consideration. Your OW is inviting your parents to Christmas dinner, your BS is trying to manipulate you into staying with your parents when you need space to think, your OW working for you is making you think you might have to leave YOUR OWN business if you stay married...wow, just wow. Yes, this screams "people pleaser" loud and clear. It's good that you are now beginning to recognize it and that is 50% of the battle. The rest is taking action to figure out why you allow this to happen and then fixing it so it doesn't happen again.

 

As I've said before, it is perfectly fine to take a break to give yourself a chance to sort things out if you are not happy. It is your life. It is not only fine, it is also fair, not only to you, but to everyone else involved as well. It takes a lot of courage to stand up say "STOP" the merry-go-round and let me figure out why I'm not happy. If you are in counseling that's great...keep going because it will give you an objective view point to help guide you through these rough waters to help you find the answers you are seeking.

 

I wish you the best on this journey and hope that you stand up for yourself and set appropriate boundaries with the others, so you can figure this all out. Good luck and keep us posted! Don't be afraid to post because it will help you see other perspectives that might help you or that you haven't thought of yet.

I tthink I have said stop, but not exacly pulled the stop lever. I am trying to. Todays talk with ow was a big step. And as far as fixing it goes. I don't know exactly how to carry that out.

 

Oh Lord, HMH!

 

Your story is almost word-for-word verbatum to one of my MM's As with an exOW, wow. I wish we could PM, maybe you should upgrade. Actually, I will tell MM (or exMM) about you and see what he can offer you in the way of advice. Did you say how old everyone is? That might be good to know, and is this your first affair?

 

Until later, best of luck.

WF.

I am early 30s and bs and ow are mid 30s

 

Who do you love? You've mentioned still loving your W, but I haven't read where you've said you love the OW.

 

I agree with what someone else pointed out. It seems that you're literally weighing this out without emotion behind it. Lining up the pros and cons can help I suppose, but logical analysis can't change what's in your heart. Choosing the path of least resistance isn't always the best answer.

 

If it were me, I'd quit seeing the OW romantically for a while and let your head clear. You need some clarity and that's not going to happen while you're still engaged in an A.

 

I do understand your position about your W being so demanding. I've seen it happen IRL and it's a sad situation when a SAHM will let go of her outside interests and make the family her entire focus. She begins to rely on you for her happiness and sole companionship and that's impossible to do. I'm glad she's made some changes in that area and hope that continues.

 

With regards to budget, don't you have a way to control that better? I'd say shame on you if she has access to unlimited sources of the family funds if she has spending issues. You DO have the ability to change that, but it's going to take backbone to do it. If you keep letting her spend everything, you'll all end up with nothing.

 

Life with the OW may seem easier, but reality hasn't hit yet. Blend a family with 8 children. That's not going to be easy. Financially it won't be easy. You haven't had to live real life with the OW so you don't really know if that is the better path. However, I don't believe any decent parent would embrace an OW as yours have without good cause. Perhaps they do see her as a better fit for you and see how much happier you are when you're with her. Although others say it's disrespectful, I have to wonder just how they perceive your W to so willfully disregard her. To me it's quite telling because in most cases parents just want their kids to be happy and that doesn't change regardless of their age.

 

Bottom line, it still boils down to what/who is in your heart. Make a choice and go with it. If it's to save your M, no it may not work out in the long run, but at least you'll know that you did everything you could to save it. If it's to be with OW, then know you made that choice because she does truly make you happy and the quality of your life and your childrens' lives will be better for it.

 

Good luck.

Working on the heart part. I am trying to dig down to that. And I know my feeligs are strong for both of them. I have been in lvoe with 2 women for a long time, and it's not easy right now. Some may say bullsh*t, but thats how I feel. And in the last few months i have seen a lot of things come to light about the people involved, and I am trying to sort obligation and guilt from love.

 

One last thing. Something my counselor told me about passive people just came to mind.

 

When someone doesn't stand up for themselves and assert their boundaries, they tend to let people take advantage of them. Bad behavior is often rewarded because the passive person will do things just to make the other person happy, or to keep them off their back, or to avoid making waves, etc. The more you do, the more is expected. The more you accept bad/demanding behavior, the more it's expected you will accept bad/demanding behavior. Before it's over you look over and see a 500 lb. gorilla sitting in the room with you and think "Oh crap, there's a 500 lb. gorilla in the room". You've helped to create that 500 lb. gorilla. It didn't morph overnight. Regardless of her taking advantage, you still let it happen.

 

Moral is, unless and until you correct that within yourself, anyone has the potential to turn into a 500 lb. gorilla on you.

Very true. Now stopping it...

 

Thanks everyone.

 

HowMeHere

[awkward]

 

BS was great to my family in the beginning.

 

Honestly, there aren't too many women who are going to embrace the type of familial boundaries you have in place. Right now OW thinks your parents are just super. Just wait until they treat her the way they've treated your wife/mother of your children.

 

Unfortunately, rthe last few months I have felt so stressed by my indecision that happiness and relaxation has eluded me a lot no matter who I have been with. It sucks and it needs to change. I am a happy guy, and tired of feeling like i have to hide, and like it's not right for me to be happy.

 

No matter what you are going to have to make some changes. None of them are going to be easy. You can't just sit and do nothing. There are children involved.

 

I'm curious. If you found out tonight that your wife was involved with an OM or had a revenge affair and wanted to pursue a divorce, how would you feel? Would it be relief? Anger? Betrayal? Pain?

 

What if it wasn't about an OM? What if she found the surviving infidelity forum and after receiving support there decided that she was ready to move on? Do you want your wife to be the one to end this? People say that indecision is a decision.

 

HMH, I hope this all works out for you and your family. Keep posting here. If anything, just writing it all out can be therapeutic.

[HowMeHere]

Today was pretty harsh and emotional. There have been a few things go on. I spent some time with ow talking a lot last nite, and she gave me some confidence to stand up and be heard. That's one of those damn things i have been having a hard time with. I felt somewhat releif when i got a few things and feelings off my chest, but some of those things hurt her feelings, and she expressed how my actions had been hurtful to her. She said I wasn't typically like that, but was as of the past few days. She didn't get overly angry, just expressed her feelings in a calm manner, kind of weird to me, but really nice.

 

I don't like how I am making these women feel, and I don't like how I feel, afraid to give 100% to either of them for whatever reservations that I have. I feel like i haven't tried hard enough with my bs, as she is still open to reconciliation, and I feel that ow has been so patient and caring all the way through this and been able to understand my hurt and feelings, and listen, and talk.

ow and I talked this afternoon, I had gotten a call from bs that had rattled me. She had given me the opportunity to ask her to back away a few times if I wanted to try to fix things at home with my marriage, and I don't 100% understand why I couldn't bring myself to take her up on those offers. Obviously afraid of losing her.. and the level of uncertainty I have about myt M really working out are part of the problem, I don't have a ton of confidence there..

 

Anyways, ow and i are going to make some space between us. I talked to bs tonite, and it was frustrating.. she talked about what was bothering her for a good stretch of time, but as usual when i got into what was bothering me, she got super defensive. We then took a bit of time just not talking about the A and just relaxing a bit. Nothing sexual, just taking it easy.. I have to digest how I feel about things. I am tired of these reservations holding me back, and not feeling confident in committing in any direction. I am hoping that having some talk time with bs will help clear my mind about the feelings that I didn't try hard enough, or so much was my fault... I don't know. I feel a bit releived that I have hopefully made some space, and it dosen't appear that I am sprinting back into ther arms of my bs, and actually going to get to think things over so i can be wholehearted wherever I go.

 

How would i feel if I found out bs had an A and wanted a D.. I don't know. Would i feel she was justified in doing that, perhaps. Would I be sad and disappointed yes. But how can i have a double standard here, right? And if she decided that she waanted to move on, I dunno.. I would probably panic, seems to be my standard response... Tired of backpedalling to try and buy time when I get cornered.. I guess I might just have to come to accept it... It would be hard.

Well, that's all my brain can handle tonite. We'll see how it looks after a nights sleep.

 

HMH

Edited December 30, 2010 by HowMeHere
forgot to reply to above posting

[spice4life]

Today was pretty harsh and emotional. There have been a few things go on. I spent some time with ow talking a lot last nite, and she gave me some confidence to stand up and be heard. That's one of those damn things i have been having a hard time with. I felt somewhat releif when i got a few things and feelings off my chest, but some of those things hurt her feelings, and she expressed how my actions had been hurtful to her. She said I wasn't typically like that, but was as of the past few days. She didn't get overly angry, just expressed her feelings in a calm manner, kind of weird to me, but really nice.

 

I don't like how I am making these women feel, and I don't like how I feel, afraid to give 100% to either of them for whatever reservations that I have. I feel like i haven't tried hard enough with my bs, as she is still open to reconciliation, and I feel that ow has been so patient and caring all the way through this and been able to understand my hurt and feelings, and listen, and talk.

ow and I talked this afternoon, I had gotten a call from bs that had rattled me. She had given me the opportunity to ask her to back away a few times if I wanted to try to fix things at home with my marriage, and I don't 100% understand why I couldn't bring myself to take her up on those offers. Obviously afraid of losing her.. and the level of uncertainty I have about myt M really working out are part of the problem, I don't have a ton of confidence there..

 

Anyways, ow and i are going to make some space between us. I talked to bs tonite, and it was frustrating.. she talked about what was bothering her for a good stretch of time, but as usual when i got into what was bothering me, she got super defensive. We then took a bit of time just not talking about the A and just relaxing a bit. Nothing sexual, just taking it easy.. I have to digest how I feel about things. I am tired of these reservations holding me back, and not feeling confident in committing in any direction. I am hoping that having some talk time with bs will help clear my mind about the feelings that I didn't try hard enough, or so much was my fault... I don't know. I feel a bit releived that I have hopefully made some space, and it dosen't appear that I am sprinting back into ther arms of my bs, and actually going to get to think things over so i can be wholehearted wherever I go.

 

How would i feel if I found out bs had an A and wanted a D.. I don't know. Would i feel she was justified in doing that, perhaps. Would I be sad and disappointed yes. But how can i have a double standard here, right? And if she decided that she waanted to move on, I dunno.. I would probably panic, seems to be my standard response... Tired of backpedalling to try and buy time when I get cornered.. I guess I might just have to come to accept it... It would be hard.

Well, that's all my brain can handle tonite. We'll see how it looks after a nights sleep.

 

HMH

 

Sounds like you are taking some good baby steps in the right direction. I'm a little concerned about the reaction from your bs. She is about to lose you and all she seems to be concerned about is how she feels and is being defensive about how you feel. If it were me, I would make note of that during this process because it seems like a red flag to me. Maybe it's one of the reasons you weren't happy with her? Does she have an issue with taking ownership of her part in this? Sure, there is hurt and anger, but when the person you claim to love is about to walk out on you, wouldn't you be willing to listen at least? I dunno..I could be wrong.

[HowMeHere]

Sounds like you are taking some good baby steps in the right direction. I'm a little concerned about the reaction from your bs. She is about to lose you and all she seems to be concerned about is how she feels and is being defensive about how you feel. If it were me, I would make note of that during this process because it seems like a red flag to me. Maybe it's one of the reasons you weren't happy with her? Does she have an issue with taking ownership of her part in this? Sure, there is hurt and anger, but when the person you claim to love is about to walk out on you, wouldn't you be willing to listen at least? I dunno..I could be wrong.

 

Well, she understands the things that frustrated me. She has listened. When she gets frustrated and angry, it goes straight abck to it being all my fault and she didn't do any of this, and she did nothing to deserve the way she was treated with reference tot he affair and how it played out. That scares me and makes me feel like there is still a huge lack of ownership to the problem. Most of the things we talk about come back around to being my fault when we discuss them.

 

HMH

[spice4life]

Well, she understands the things that frustrated me. She has listened. When she gets frustrated and angry, it goes straight abck to it being all my fault and she didn't do any of this, and she did nothing to deserve the way she was treated with reference tot he affair and how it played out. That scares me and makes me feel like there is still a huge lack of ownership to the problem. Most of the things we talk about come back around to being my fault when we discuss them.

 

HMH

 

I can understand the anger and frustration due to the affair, but at some point, if there is any hope for rebuilding, she is going to have to take ownership for her own actions that pushed you away. MC can help with this. It seems, from what you have written, that you have tried and tried to do whats best for your family and having the affair was a symptom that something was seriously wrong with the relationship. Sure, it's not the best way to handle marital problems, but it happened. It is now important that your wife looks at her part in the break down of your marriage too. Another thought came to mind, it is quite possible that she is depressed and that would cause someone to act the way she does. I know someone who was having a similar problem with their wife and it turned out that she was depressed and after she was put on medication and got into therapy, her behavior changed drastically. Her symptoms from the depression went away and they were then able to focus on what the real problems were with the marriage.

[Carrot2000]

Well, she understands the things that frustrated me. She has listened. When she gets frustrated and angry, it goes straight abck to it being all my fault and she didn't do any of this, and she did nothing to deserve the way she was treated with reference tot he affair and how it played out. That scares me and makes me feel like there is still a huge lack of ownership to the problem. Most of the things we talk about come back around to being my fault when we discuss them.

 

HMH

 

 

I totally understand your bs's reaction. You brought your ow into her home, her life and her children's lives in with the intention of deceiving her and continuing the affair. You blatantly disrespected her, but now expect her to listen to and care about your feelings? Really?

 

HMH, your wife's response is directly related to what you've done to her; you can't expect her to take responsibility for any role she has played in the demise of your marriage when it sounds like you're not doing the same. You can't blame her for your anger when your indecision is messing with her life.

 

You are not a victim in all of this. The choice to have an affair as a way to cope with issues at home was yours, so you need to own that your actions are your fault. Have you even apologized or expressed remorse or are you just expecting her to listen to your complaints without holding you accountable?

[awkward]

Well, she understands the things that frustrated me. She has listened. When she gets frustrated and angry, it goes straight abck to it being all my fault and she didn't do any of this, and she did nothing to deserve the way she was treated with reference tot he affair and how it played out. That scares me and makes me feel like there is still a huge lack of ownership to the problem. Most of the things we talk about come back around to being my fault when we discuss them.

 

HMH

 

Well your Betrayed Wife is correct. She didn't deserve the way she was treated with reference to YOUR affair and how it played out.

 

How do you think you would react to your wife if she was sitting on the fence and still seeing OM? Do you think you might feel anger? Frustration? You are lucky she is even willing to speak to you let alone listen to you. And don't forget one of the biggest issues here: your father. Your wife has a lot on her plate right now.

 

How do you think your wife should be reacting to you right now? You haven't even agreed to stop talking to OW. What exactly do you want from your betrayed wife? Do you expect her to start discussing how she could have been a better wife while you are sitting there doing nothing?

 

There is definitely a huge lack of ownership to the problem. I doubt you and I will agree on who is not owning their crap.

 

Honestly, HMH give your wife a break. Put yourself in her shoes for a minute and think about how hurt, angry, frustrated, pissed, up/down you'd be if she disrespected you as you did to her. Your indecision is slowly destroying her.

 

How many IC sessions has your wife had? Does she have support from family and friends right now? Her husband had an affair, left the family home, is trying to decide between her and his OW, and I doubt she really cares to take ownership of what she could have done better while that big fat elephant is still in the room.

[Carrot2000]

You can't blame her for your anger when your indecision is messing with her life.

 

I meant her anger.

[HowMeHere]

I can understand the anger and frustration due to the affair, but at some point, if there is any hope for rebuilding, she is going to have to take ownership for her own actions that pushed you away. MC can help with this. It seems, from what you have written, that you have tried and tried to do whats best for your family and having the affair was a symptom that something was seriously wrong with the relationship. Sure, it's not the best way to handle marital problems, but it happened. It is now important that your wife looks at her part in the break down of your marriage too. Another thought came to mind, it is quite possible that she is depressed and that would cause someone to act the way she does. I know someone who was having a similar problem with their wife and it turned out that she was depressed and after she was put on medication and got into therapy, her behavior changed drastically. Her symptoms from the depression went away and they were then able to focus on what the real problems were with the marriage.

 

We had done some MC at the beginning ant it had started as to calm her down adn deal with the seperation, and it moved into other things and had aided in rasing doubvt about my actions. I do know whe was very frustrated adn got very needy of attentiona nd it's been that way for about 5 years now. She had seen someone regarding post partum after outr youngest was born as well. It's frustrating.. I am sending mixed signals ya, probably, but i get these mixed signals back when she tells me she wants to get back together but most everything is my fault, she never changed, and is not going to change.

 

I totally understand your bs's reaction. You brought your ow into her home, her life and her children's lives in with the intention of deceiving her and continuing the affair. You blatantly disrespected her, but now expect her to listen to and care about your feelings? Really?

 

HMH, your wife's response is directly related to what you've done to her; you can't expect her to take responsibility for any role she has played in the demise of your marriage when it sounds like you're not doing the same. You can't blame her for your anger when your indecision is messing with her life.

 

You are not a victim in all of this. The choice to have an affair as a way to cope with issues at home was yours, so you need to own that your actions are your fault. Have you even apologized or expressed remorse or are you just expecting her to listen to your complaints without holding you accountable?

 

I have expressed remorse, we have talked about a lot of things over the past 4 months. Thanks for the view from the other side though.

 

Well your Betrayed Wife is correct. She didn't deserve the way she was treated with reference to YOUR affair and how it played out.

 

How do you think you would react to your wife if she was sitting on the fence and still seeing OM? Do you think you might feel anger? Frustration? You are lucky she is even willing to speak to you let alone listen to you. And don't forget one of the biggest issues here: your father. Your wife has a lot on her plate right now.

 

How do you think your wife should be reacting to you right now? You haven't even agreed to stop talking to OW. What exactly do you want from your betrayed wife? Do you expect her to start discussing how she could have been a better wife while you are sitting there doing nothing?

 

There is definitely a huge lack of ownership to the problem. I doubt you and I will agree on who is not owning their crap.

 

Honestly, HMH give your wife a break. Put yourself in her shoes for a minute and think about how hurt, angry, frustrated, pissed, up/down you'd be if she disrespected you as you did to her. Your indecision is slowly destroying her.

 

How many IC sessions has your wife had? Does she have support from family and friends right now? Her husband had an affair, left the family home, is trying to decide between her and his OW, and I doubt she really cares to take ownership of what she could have done better while that big fat elephant is still in the room.

 

I understand where you are coming from. I have taken ownership of the affair, but haven't let it go and I also haven't let my wife go. Which is in effect doing nothing i guess right? Thats the whole problem that I am trying to deal and why I am here. Yes I have to let go. Thats where my issue lies. I'm all bent out of shape here and definitely running out of time.

 

OW is very frustrated with me as well. She went from understanding what I needed to do last nite, to feeling used by the whole situation. The bit about slowly destroying bs, well, same goes for ow. Thats what I need to stop doing. I think i am past the point of everyone hold on while i re-evaluate my life and find out why i am not happy. It's a good idea, but i tihnk that ship sailed a long time back and that's not an option anymore. I tried to "stop the merry-go-round", said it, but couldn't actually act out stopping it. I got the feeling that if i actualyl stopped, then everyone would get off, and it would be end of story if that makes any sense to you guys. What a mess. I had gotten some confidence over the past while thanks to a talk with ow. She seems to be able to do that for me. She says that I am the reason she got more confidence in herself with the time that we spent together before things blew up. And she's been sticking by me and all my crap. I don't know where things stand at this moment, but I tihnk bs and ow are tired of my indecision and it's gonna be done here no matter what I can figure out.

What is it that's holding me back from being able to make a decision? I don't know.

 

HMH

[awkward]

Which is in effect doing nothing i guess right?

 

Pretty much the same as doing nothing. Almost as if each of them would just make the decision for you then it would be easier. And yes, slowly destroying the other woman too.

 

Try not to let this go on too much longer. Your wife needs to be able to function as a mother to your children. You need to be able to function as a father to your children. Too much time in this limbo isn't really good for any of you ... including yourself. You are slowly destroying yourself too.

[whichwayisup]

Well, she understands the things that frustrated me. She has listened. When she gets frustrated and angry, it goes straight abck to it being all my fault and she didn't do any of this, and she did nothing to deserve the way she was treated with reference tot he affair and how it played out. That scares me and makes me feel like there is still a huge lack of ownership to the problem. Most of the things we talk about come back around to being my fault when we discuss them.

 

HMH

 

I don't think now is the time to point fingers at your wife as to why the marriage it's problems and who's fault is it. BOTH of you are responsible for the demise and issues in the marriage. Worry about fixing and talking about that IF you two do want to save the marriage and do marriage counseling. Righ now she's reeling, her whole world has been turned upside down and everything she knew, loved and trusted in you, isn't there anymore. Allow her to react. You need to listen, answer all her questions involving the affair, NOT problems in your marriage. You aren't the victim here, the betrayed one. You let yourself fall inlove with another woman and now the consquences are happening. Yes, both women are hurting but I tell ya, the OW isn't an innocent bystander. She knew you were married and chose to have an affair with you so her pain isn't coming out of the blue. Your wife's pain IS and right now since you're still at home, your wife has to be your number one priority, her feelings and her pain. Not your OW.

 

I will add, if you are still talking to your OW, do not share details of your talks with your wife with your OW. It is NOT her business or concern, plus it isn't fair to either woman.

[Breezy Trousers]

Affairs are drugs, and I think you're under the influence. Perhaps you should pull back from everyone, get support from outside, and really sort this through.

 

My husband had an affair with a subordinate. He got all goofy over her and became uncharacteristically icy to me overnight. I finally figured it out and showed him the door. (Unlike your wife, I had no children to worry about.) He knew I meant it. To my surprise (surprise because I thought he was in LOVE!), my husband did an about-face the next day. He begged to stay. We went to marriage counseling. He started attending sex addiction meetings and saw how addictive patterns were impacting his choices and our marriage. I quit taking responsibility for his decisions. We mutually worked on our marriage, and the work is ongoing

 

That was 10 years ago.

 

My husband now believes that if he left me for the OW it would have changed the course of his life in a horrible way. Of course, he didn't notice this much while he was busy having sex and feeling ga ga over her: Her ex was in prison. She had just filed bankruptcy and was a struggling single parent....She was demoted on her job ... As it turned out, she got over my husband quickly by marrying another guy 5 months later! And has divorced a couple times since ... Obviously, her case is likely to be more extreme than your OW's situation. The point is, I think my husband's OW was a single mother who saw my husband as a good provider. When my husband panned out, she moved on to another guy .... So what do you represent to your OW? Have you ever asked yourself that? Look long and hard at this now, because if you don't, reality will force you to look at this later.

 

Meanwhile, I'm deeply concerned about your wife. She needs tremendous support. Not only have you and the family and OW betrayed her, but no doubt society will betray her further by blaming HER for your self-centered decisions. I'm speaking from experience. I don't expect you to understand this. Most of us who are in affair mode are extremely self-centered when we are sexually acting out and don't particularly care about the spouses ....... LOVE IS A DRUG / PURPLE HAZE .... It's sad that your wife is being forced to deal with reality of your actions without anything to ease her suffering (like a love affair!).

 

Incidentally, my husband's parents sided with him, too, just as your parents are siding with you. Why? Because he was their son. They had no hard feelings against me, but they expected the marriage to end, so they picked sides with their son. We surprised them by working things out. Still, it took nine years for me to agree to fly out to visit them. It was a bad call on their part ... Our relationship will never be the same.... Unlike me, your wife has kids so she has a deeper connection with your parents. Unimaginable. God bless her.

 

I honestly don't judge you for what you've done. I was nearly tempted into having an affair two years ago myself. Looking back, I do feel I was "under the influence" of delusional thought the entire time! So I can't help but wonder how much your OW is a temporal drug for you rather than a genuine life partner.

 

In an open relationship, the love chemicals that bond two people together begin to fade within 2-3 years because bonding is established. This allows the work of real relationship to begin ...In love affairs, this stage can go on much longer because of drama and secrecy... Polyamorous people are well-acquainted with this early love chemical stage. They refer to it as "NEW RELATIONSHIP ENERGY." Read about it on Wikipedia! Or read this site: http://aphroweb.net/articles/nre.htm ... They know from repeated experience this is usually just a TEMPORARY phase of a new relationship which often distorts perceptions and judgments. Unfortunately, monogamous people are far less familiar with New Relationship Energy and make sudden, life-changing decisions under its influence.

 

An affair expert once wrote that affairs are like three-legged stools. MM and OW need the BS as the third leg to their stool in order to keep the rollercoaster drama, eternal longing and sexual sparks going. Once the BS finds out and leaves (or is left), there are only two legs left to the stool. The stool usually ends up toppling over.

 

I hope you have more clarity in upcoming days, regardless of what your decision is.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Breezy Trousers

[awkward]

Any updates HMH? Have you started IC? I truly hope that you are finding clarity in your situation and have been able to make a move towards healing.