HowMeHere Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Well, here goes I have been in an affair with my OW for a year and a half before we were discovered. I have been hopping over and sitting on the fence as to what to do for nearly 4 months nOW since things came out. I have read a lot of things about it, and tried to figure out what my heart and head want me to do. It’s an awkward situation. I got into this affair because I was not happy at home and the OW and I have known each other for a long time, almost 10 years. She was having marital troubles too. The status is we were both married, she has since separated from her husband and has the kids, and I am separated from my wife, and she has the kids a bit more than me. We were both married, both with 4 kids when things started The thing is, although I was having a hard time, and in this affair, I never led onto it at home. I always told my wife I loved her every day, and our relationship didn’t change sexually or anything like that. A lot of that was to ensure there wasn’t any change in how I was to her. We were still affectionate as ever, and did stuff together, and when things weren’t stressful and she was not angry with me, things were good. We have in common to do the best for our children, but have different ways of going about it. I work a LOT, and she is a stay at home mom. She’s had a hard time with the hours I work, and lately those hours have also housed an affair as well as lots of work. In the time I was in the affair, she said that was the best amount of time I had spent with the kids and the family. I had thought I had done well throughout our marriage considering the amount I worked, but she said I wasn’t a good dad I had glimmers of being a good dad. That hurt a lot. I worked very hard for my family, to provide well for them and make sure their needs were met, and their wants as much as I could. We’d had problems leading up to my affair, and it was really hard. I felt very taken for granted and under appreciated. After the affair started, we talked about things and tried working through them somewhat (how can it be anything more when I am having an affair, really) and there were things she had done to try and make changes. Some of them she failed miserably and failed to even see where my frustration was, but she did try. This is what rips me up. She believes with all her heart that she tried to make things better in our relationship. I’ll grant she was a bit more accepting about time I spent at work, but I was still facing barrages of phone calls especially if she was having a bad day. Her trying was hindered as well. I had given up in some ways. She would be demanding and badger me until I did what she asked, she’d call me at work and give me crap for things I really had no bearing on. And I just started to do whatever she asked. It was easier to do that. Sometimes ridiculous, but I would do it. In the middle of a project at work and go to the store, get her ice cream or whatever, drop it home and go back to work and try to get my head back into what I was doing while all the time she is sitting on the couch watching a show She’d call me at work and if I didn’t answer persist until I did, or call the office direct instead of my cel phone. I got messages from my office saying my wife was calling after she’d tried to call me, and the issues were not urgent. It was so frustrating My stress showed at work. It’s a small office with only 6 people and my OW is one of them. People in the office could tell when I had been on the phone with my wife and she’d taken a run at me, or when I had been given crap at home. After the affair cam out one of my coworkers said she knew when I’d had an issue with my wife because I was incapacitated from doing anything productive for half an hour after the phone call. And she also said when the OW came in, she noticed how my spirits would rise right away Our families grew together after the affair started, the kids became friends and my wife and OW did things together as well. Another part of keeping things under wraps I guess, maybe call it hiding in plain sight (or trying to anyways). Not a nice thing to do, but it gave us more time together and justified it. Our kids became friends, and each of our older kids even dated for a while (that was weird). We grew closer together and the lies grew bigger and more elaborate. We did whatever we could to keep the affair together, but neither of us were ready to break from our marriages. Finally she was ready to break from hers, and 1 hour before her husband was going to move out of the house, he walked in on us at the office.[/ Obviously the spit hit the fan then. He told my wife, and that weekend there was a planned outing, we went out as a family to an event that was planned to go to, and I got an earful about the affair. She asked me, and I told her whatever she asked, and she in turn told anyone who would listen. Very angry and very damaging to me with my friends and family, and in the community. Of course she’s angry, I just think she might have gone a bit too far. Every bit of badmouthing she did hurt her too, because it affects my business in town. I listened to her on our family outing, and I thought I had better keep it together and leave the OW, but when we came back home, I sent to my dads and stayed there a bit. He also works in the office, and he told me what he thought, and other people at the office told be what they thought, and they thought my BS was demanding and affected me in a very negative way, and my OW was good for me. It threw me for a loop, and I rethought things, and decided it would be better for me to stay with the OW. That went ok until about 6 weeks after the affair or 4 weeks with the OW only and I cracked. I was overwhelmed with the sense of loss of my BS, and felt like I had to go back to her. We talked and worked on some things, worked on some financial things that appeared to be a source of a lot of our issues, and after about a week she let me down on a veryt important anniversary and I cracked again, and left town for a few days to clear my head. After I came back I had dome some flip flopping but ened up saying wait, I can’t commit to either of you right now, and I have been in this holding pattern for almost 2 months. I have no idea what to do, I feel paralyzed. I hear my wife and she says how badly things went down, and how bad my father and the OW treated her and how she feels I was manipulated by the OW because she wanted me and was jealous of my BS’s life. I feel terrible with the thought of breaking up my family On the other hand I see how happy I am with OW, and that makes me feel good. The kids are good together, and we are good together, and it’s nice. My moods and emotions have been putting both these women through hell. I have been trying to avoid the kids getting hurt by trying to remove them from the situation as much as I can. I treat my kids as my kids, and they love me, and I don’t see her kids, haven’t for a while. I don’t want to get an emotional bond built with them when I am so screwed up as to what I am going to do I am right now living with my parents, and at home daily to see the kids when they are not staying with me, and I am talking with my BS. I still am seeing the OW, and BS dosen’t know this. Here I am, am I cheating all over again? I feel horrible about breaking up my marriage. BS tells me she wanted to go out to school and get a career or work with me before the affair came out, now if we split, she will be limited to what she can do because she will have to work. I feel like I would be ripping away that opportunity from her if we split. She feels like she’s been used, had all this time as a mom, and was going to go to school, and she can’t if we split. I feel so guilty and horrible. I think the kids would be ok either way. But I am still torn apart by the feelings of my BS. I didn’t intend to have an affair when I got married, I did it because I thought it was going to be forever, and so did she. I feel like a failure, and like I have let down my family. Now my situation is no better. I have BS and OW up in the air because I cannot commit to making a decision, and I have read about stringing women along, and I don’t know what this is. I know I need to end it with one, but I am afraid to, and fear going through the withdrawl of one relationship, and leaving one person so hurt. They both love me, and they both want me, and I love them both as well. HOW screwed up is that On top of that OW and my father have a working relationship and a friendship. My mom and ad went to OW’s for Christmas dinner while I spent it with my BS and kids. OW has also developed a strong friendship with my sister, and these relationships have grown since the affair came out. Everyone knows I haven’t been able to commit to a decision, but with all the outside forces it makes it hard for me to feel like I am making a decision for me and not because of the outside forces of friendships with my family on the OW’s side, and broken dreams and future on my BS’s side. I would have to abandon the office and the years of brand building and advertising, sever the relationship with OW (obviously) and darsticaly change my relationship with my familiy by limiting contact with them, and as of late discussions with BS, she would want to move as well. Not out of the school district, but to a more affordable home farther from my father and sister (we live very close now) I am afraid that leaving my job would make me unable to support my family because it would mean starting with a relatively clean slate and rebuilding. And if I stay with OW, this would not have to change. My career has been a journey to get me where I am, and I am passionate about what I do. I would have to give up a huge part of my life to stay with my BS, and I don’t know that she could make the changes that would make us work if I tried to stay, and … it’s hard… I feel riddled with guilt about leaving. I still do love her. I think about the good times we have had, and there have been many. But the bad times put me into an affair, and I don’t want to do that again. I am overwhelmed by the thoughts of how if I waited it out and when she moved out of stay-at-home mom mode to something different, it would be a next step in our relationship that would be so much better, and maybe I am throwing that away prematurely. She says how she was so looking forward to going to school and spending more time with me before this all came out I am at a loss as to what to do. I don’t know who to be with. If I don’t act soon, it won’t be my choice and I may just lose them both Edited December 27, 2010 by HowMeHere Paste imorted weird, needed to fix.
cuddlekeeper Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Hi Howmehere... I am sorry things are so mixed up for you. Only you can decide what will happen in the end but here is what I hear from you. You dont want to hurt anyone but what you are doing is hurting all of everyone. Maybe if you go to counselling (and if you dont feel comfortable with the first one, try another one because they are not all the same). Explain your situation and they maybe able to help you with coping strategies to make the hurting not so severe in whichever way you decide. I know I still love my exH in a funny sort of way but we were hurting each by staying together...I think we are both happier now. We were together for 19 years so it took alot of getting over. I think maybe your trying not hurt your BS and not thinking about what the future will be like. If your having an affair on her then why do you think that you wont again. I dont have all the answers and I dont think anyone does. I wish I had a crystal ball. You just need to talk to someone who will help you get things clear in your head about what you want in life and that you cant please all of the people all of the time. Good luck
bentnotbroken Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 :sick:The kids will be alright either way...... You have more than "payed your wife" back for her not doing what you needed. You lied to her, gas lighted her and helped create a friendship with the OW and the kids.. that's triple betrayal. Add your family on top....leave your wife alone and let her find a man who won't cheat when he is stressed. A man who will find other avenues to deal with his issues that climb onto another. You talk about others in the office hearing you being reamed out...did they know that she had asked you to do things and you wouldn't. She had to nag and harass to get it done. If she was doing stupid stuff that was pissing you off...why continue to lead her to believe you were good with life with her? Punk move. You got major issues. You still running and hiding behind everyone instead of getting a grip on your own mess. The kids man...how could you put them in that position? :sick: Your wife went too far with her anger huh...when did you go too far? Was it when you were lying to her and your kids? When you were a disengaged dad? when you were having sex with ow? or when you introduced ow into your family's life? When exactly did you go too far? The bad times didn't put you in an affair...your immaturity did.
alexandria35 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 The one thing that stands out the most is the total lack of boundaries within your affair. The whole thing just made me cringe. It sounds like your OW just walked right into and over your wife's life and you let her. I'm surprised that your wife even wants to work it out given the level of disrespect that she has been shown. You let your OW become friends with your wife for the sole purpose of carrying on the affair right under your wife's nose. Then your sister and OW are best friends and your parents spent Christmas with the OW?! I don't understand that. Why would they not want to spend Christmas with their son and grandchildren? It seems like everyone in your family and workplace is cheering on the affair and the destruction of your family. That sounds weird to me. I have adult sons, one is married with children. I would freak out if my son had an affair regardless of how I feel about his wife. I love my children and grandchildren above everything and I could never support my son in doing anything so destructive and I sure as hell wouldn't be having Christmas dinner with some OW instead of with my grandchildren, my own flesh and blood. Honestly, it doesn't sound like anyone in your life is showing any integrity. You haven't said much about your wife other than to paint her as some kind of useless bonbon eating couch potato and you obviously blame her for your behavior. I say divorce her. Neither you or anyone in your life has any respect for her or her marriage. I think your wife and children will all be better off and she will be free to find someone who really does love her and respect her.
Carrot2000 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 You are a mess. Actually, you're a hot azz mess and right now you're not good for either woman. Leave the OW alone, limit your contact with your wife to discussions about the kids, and move out of your parent's home so you can get your head together without input from your family--especially since they seem to have it in for your wife for some reason. You probably should start looking for another job or arrange to work from home so you can get away from your family and the OW while you work things out for yourself. Hopefully you have a strong professional reputation. You may very well end up alone in this mess, and this actually may not be a bad thing for you. I don't think you're ready for a relationship with anyone other than yourself right now.
BellaBellaBella Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Wow, I am truly shocked about the lack or remorse on your part. You truly believe it is okay for you to have an affair and for your parents to spend Christmas with your OW. Your kids will have a hard time with adjusting to not having a stay at home mother. Your kids will have a hard time without a full time father. You take no responsability for this affair and lay it all on your wife. She isn't the person who had sex with someone outside the marriage vows. Who drug the OW into your life. You did all that. Affairs thrive in secret, why should she have kept yours? Get the book how to survive an affair and read it. You are in fantasyland if you think everything is going to be wonderful. Truly sounds like you want an eraser and to just erase her out of the picture so you and your kids and parents and OW can go on with your happy lives.
Heather1 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Read "When Good People have Affairs." There's a few sections on it about how to choose. I couldn't tell if you have 4 kids apiece, or 4 total between you. If your W's a stay home mom w/ 4 kids, I assure you she's not sitting on the couch watching shows except for her "breaks," which are none if you're working so much. I stayed home w/ my kids for 15 years & I'll give you my angle on it FWIW. It's really lonely!! Looking back, what I would have done different is surround myself w/ friends & support, which is not what we did. It doesn't sound like your family supports her either, so she's alone with the kids with absolutely no help & her only help is you, so she bugs you all day. Then she has hopes & dreams too, and kind of grounded. I started 2 part time jobs that I had to quit without notice for my H's illnesses & injuries. He owns 2 businesses, I had no help, and when he wasn't in the hospital for something, his parents were. So I'd nurse him, take care of the kids, he'd get better to go take care of his parents & I had absolutely NO HELP. We also have a child who's deaf, no help w/ that either. He's stepping up to the plate now, but it's kind of too little too late & the help I needed was when I was raising the kids by myself. So I'm pissed, and I'm the one who had the A. But I'm not in your situation where I have to make a choice, because OM would never leave for me. My choice is to stay M, or be single. All I'm saying is that the woman your W is is who you fell in love w/ at the beginning, not the one who's been locked up w/ kids w/ no help for however many years. You weren't able to give her the support she needed raising them, can you try now? Can you get her a babysitter so she can go back to school & date her? What helped me is a part time job. I work early in the mornings & my H takes my youngest to school a few mornings a week so I can make min wage, but I like the job. I took up a really cool hobby too, my H & kids love that I'm doing it & I really enjoy it. My kids are older, so I get to be "me" again. I just think staying home w/ the kids is SO lonely!! Hop in the mini-van w/ the Mom jeans & become an alien to yourself (& your H). The other thing to consider w/ your W is her income potential after staying home all those years.... If nothing else, get her some support & help w/ the kids so she can be herself again & maybe that will help w/ your decision?
IzzyB Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 I agree with the posters above. I think you should move out on your own for a bit - away from your parents. To be honest, without sounding mean, it sounds like you are completely swayed by your parents input and have never really separated from them in adulthood. Also, is this YOUR business or do you work for someone? If its your business, then you need to let go of OW as everyone is too enmeshed. You need some serious counseling to figure your life out. Right now your family has no boundaries and you have created more problems through avoidance. The issue for you isnt as simple as which woman to choose, its how to become a grown up and get healthy boundaries going. In the meantime, the children come first. What is best for them at this point while you get your azz to counseling to start on some badlly needed therapy. Not trying to sound harsh; if this was just about you, you could F things up as much as you want to. But there are kids involved here (not to mention your wife) and you have a responsibility to them.
Author HowMeHere Posted December 27, 2010 Author Posted December 27, 2010 I spent half an hour on my reply and when I went to submit it it asked me to relog in and i lost it all! I'll try again. Hi Howmehere... You dont want to hurt anyone but what you are doing is hurting all of everyone. Maybe if you go to counselling (and if you dont feel comfortable with the first one, try another one because they are not all the same). Explain your situation and they maybe able to help you with coping strategies to make the hurting not so severe in whichever way you decide. I know I still love my exH in a funny sort of way but we were hurting each by staying together...I think we are both happier now. We were together for 19 years so it took alot of getting over. I think maybe your trying not hurt your BS and not thinking about what the future will be like. If your having an affair on her then why do you think that you wont again. We were in counceling together for about a month after things came out, and i have been in individual counselling for about 6 weks now. BS has just started and she's been to 2 sessions. Yes, I don't want to hurt anyone, but all I am doing is hurting everyone.. :sick:The kids will be alright either way...... You have more than "payed your wife" back for her not doing what you needed. You lied to her, gas lighted her and helped create a friendship with the OW and the kids.. that's triple betrayal. Add your family on top....leave your wife alone and let her find a man who won't cheat when he is stressed. A man who will find other avenues to deal with his issues that climb onto another. You talk about others in the office hearing you being reamed out...did they know that she had asked you to do things and you wouldn't. She had to nag and harass to get it done. If she was doing stupid stuff that was pissing you off...why continue to lead her to believe you were good with life with her? Punk move. You got major issues. You still running and hiding behind everyone instead of getting a grip on your own mess. The kids man...how could you put them in that position? :sick: Your wife went too far with her anger huh...when did you go too far? Was it when you were lying to her and your kids? When you were a disengaged dad? when you were having sex with ow? or when you introduced ow into your family's life? When exactly did you go too far? The bad times didn't put you in an affair...your immaturity did. No, the people at the office didn't knwo what was going on completely. I dodn't know how much they saw my emotions until after things came out and they started talking to me. Yes, there was a lot of lying and betrayal, and the deeper it got, the more the lies compounded. I have been hiding behind a lot of issues, and have been trtying to sort that out for the past 2 months, and it's not easy with the thoughts of broken dreams and future for my BS, and strong relationships between OW and my family. The one thing that stands out the most is the total lack of boundaries within your affair. The whole thing just made me cringe. It sounds like your OW just walked right into and over your wife's life and you let her. I'm surprised that your wife even wants to work it out given the level of disrespect that she has been shown. You let your OW become friends with your wife for the sole purpose of carrying on the affair right under your wife's nose. Then your sister and OW are best friends and your parents spent Christmas with the OW?! I don't understand that. Why would they not want to spend Christmas with their son and grandchildren? It seems like everyone in your family and workplace is cheering on the affair and the destruction of your family. That sounds weird to me. I have adult sons, one is married with children. I would freak out if my son had an affair regardless of how I feel about his wife. I love my children and grandchildren above everything and I could never support my son in doing anything so destructive and I sure as hell wouldn't be having Christmas dinner with some OW instead of with my grandchildren, my own flesh and blood. Honestly, it doesn't sound like anyone in your life is showing any integrity. You haven't said much about your wife other than to paint her as some kind of useless bonbon eating couch potato and you obviously blame her for your behavior. I say divorce her. Neither you or anyone in your life has any respect for her or her marriage. I think your wife and children will all be better off and she will be free to find someone who really does love her and respect her. My parents weren't invited to christmas, it was me, bs, and the kids only. Don't know if they would have come if they were invited anyways. Bs has made the comment about lack of integrity from my family as well. I don't intend to paint my BS as a couch sitter, she has always been a great mother to the kids, never anything less. That was an instance that really stuck out to me. She knew how busy I was and it didn't matter. Just one example. It does seem that there are people cheering on the affair, and that makes me think. Why would so many people support it unless they saw how unhappy i was with my marriage? You are a mess. Actually, you're a hot azz mess and right now you're not good for either woman. Leave the OW alone, limit your contact with your wife to discussions about the kids, and move out of your parent's home so you can get your head together without input from your family--especially since they seem to have it in for your wife for some reason. You probably should start looking for another job or arrange to work from home so you can get away from your family and the OW while you work things out for yourself. Hopefully you have a strong professional reputation. You may very well end up alone in this mess, and this actually may not be a bad thing for you. I don't think you're ready for a relationship with anyone other than yourself right now. I was goign to get out of my parents place, and when I let bs know, she flipped out. Told me i was being selfish and taking food out of the kdis mouths by getting a place of my own when that money could go towards the kids. I thought iit would be a chance for me to step back and sort things out more objectively, and give me a chance to possibly work away from the office, but I listened to her, and decided against it. Wow, I am truly shocked about the lack or remorse on your part. You truly believe it is okay for you to have an affair and for your parents to spend Christmas with your OW. Your kids will have a hard time with adjusting to not having a stay at home mother. Your kids will have a hard time without a full time father. You take no responsability for this affair and lay it all on your wife. She isn't the person who had sex with someone outside the marriage vows. Who drug the OW into your life. You did all that. Affairs thrive in secret, why should she have kept yours? Get the book how to survive an affair and read it. You are in fantasyland if you think everything is going to be wonderful. Truly sounds like you want an eraser and to just erase her out of the picture so you and your kids and parents and OW can go on with your happy lives. I didn't say it was ok to have an affair. I didn't say it was fine for my parents to spend christmas with ow. What do I do say "Dad, you're not allowed to go?" I don't intend to lay the responsibility for the affair all on my wife. the situation we were in was hard, and I was missing things at home and was frustrated and hurt, and feeling like i could never do enough. There is only one of me, and I felt no matter what I did, it wasn't enough for her, or wasn't right. Read "When Good People have Affairs." There's a few sections on it about how to choose. I couldn't tell if you have 4 kids apiece, or 4 total between you. If your W's a stay home mom w/ 4 kids, I assure you she's not sitting on the couch watching shows except for her "breaks," which are none if you're working so much. I stayed home w/ my kids for 15 years & I'll give you my angle on it FWIW. It's really lonely!! Looking back, what I would have done different is surround myself w/ friends & support, which is not what we did. It doesn't sound like your family supports her either, so she's alone with the kids with absolutely no help & her only help is you, so she bugs you all day. Then she has hopes & dreams too, and kind of grounded. I started 2 part time jobs that I had to quit without notice for my H's illnesses & injuries. He owns 2 businesses, I had no help, and when he wasn't in the hospital for something, his parents were. So I'd nurse him, take care of the kids, he'd get better to go take care of his parents & I had absolutely NO HELP. We also have a child who's deaf, no help w/ that either. He's stepping up to the plate now, but it's kind of too little too late & the help I needed was when I was raising the kids by myself. So I'm pissed, and I'm the one who had the A. But I'm not in your situation where I have to make a choice, because OM would never leave for me. My choice is to stay M, or be single. All I'm saying is that the woman your W is is who you fell in love w/ at the beginning, not the one who's been locked up w/ kids w/ no help for however many years. You weren't able to give her the support she needed raising them, can you try now? Can you get her a babysitter so she can go back to school & date her? What helped me is a part time job. I work early in the mornings & my H takes my youngest to school a few mornings a week so I can make min wage, but I like the job. I took up a really cool hobby too, my H & kids love that I'm doing it & I really enjoy it. My kids are older, so I get to be "me" again. I just think staying home w/ the kids is SO lonely!! Hop in the mini-van w/ the Mom jeans & become an alien to yourself (& your H). The other thing to consider w/ your W is her income potential after staying home all those years.... If nothing else, get her some support & help w/ the kids so she can be herself again & maybe that will help w/ your decision? I encouraged her to spend more time with friends and get a hobby, but she didn't. Since things have come out, she has started spending more time with friends, and gotten a hobbby, and she's better for doing that. Wish she'd have doneit sooner. I tried to help at home as much as I could, and when we were both getting stressed about cleaning, I offered tobring in a cleaner once a week so i could spend more time with the kids and less time in front of a sink. She didn't like the idea. Before the affair, I would get up early and do dishes and have breakfast with the kids (she made sure of this by not gettingout of bed until after the kdis went to school), and I always read to them at night. I gave all the time i could considering how much i worked. After the afafir started, obviously time was not allspeent working, but i still managed to spend more time with my kids. The loneliness really rings true to what she tells me, and the whole "now that the kids are older" plans do too. That is what hurts me and makes me wonder so much. OW and I get along great, the kids get along great, and there would have to be little change to my career and family life. If i was to stay with BS, a lot of things would need to change, job, office, relationship with parents and sister, and bs also wants to move, not out of the school district, but farther from my parents. I know this reply didn't have as much as ther first one did, I hope I expressed things well, but it was done in a rush. HowMeHere
Author HowMeHere Posted December 27, 2010 Author Posted December 27, 2010 I agree with the posters above. I think you should move out on your own for a bit - away from your parents. To be honest, without sounding mean, it sounds like you are completely swayed by your parents input and have never really separated from them in adulthood. Also, is this YOUR business or do you work for someone? If its your business, then you need to let go of OW as everyone is too enmeshed. You need some serious counseling to figure your life out. Right now your family has no boundaries and you have created more problems through avoidance. The issue for you isnt as simple as which woman to choose, its how to become a grown up and get healthy boundaries going. In the meantime, the children come first. What is best for them at this point while you get your azz to counseling to start on some badlly needed therapy. Not trying to sound harsh; if this was just about you, you could F things up as much as you want to. But there are kids involved here (not to mention your wife) and you have a responsibility to them. Was my business but i feel like I am losing control of it to ym father. As far as being completely swayed, that's something i am trying to deal with now. I woudl agree that I ahvbe taken his advice very highly. I don't think I have ever had a boundary in my life. It seriously seems like a foreign process to me. I am a lover not a fighter is how it goes, but I avoid conflict, is true the same way. I am trying to make suire the kdis are happy and well loved. They know that is true without a doubt.
newpriorities Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 The loneliness really rings true to what she tells me, and the whole "now that the kids are older" plans do too. That is what hurts me and makes me wonder so much. OW and I get along great, the kids get along great, and there would have to be little change to my career and family life. If i was to stay with BS, a lot of things would need to change, job, office, relationship with parents and sister, and bs also wants to move, not out of the school district, but farther from my parents. I too raised four kids and boy was it ever lonely. I know my H was working his a-- off, but believe me, there were many days he had it much easier than I did! When the kids got older and I went back to work full time, I eventually became CEO of a small business and again, that wasn't nearly as hard as staying home with four kids, so I completely understand why she might have been upset/complaining to you. It's just too bad you guys couldn't talk about THAT issue, before it got to the level that it did...but anyways,.... The last paragraph is interesting to me. It seems as if you are weighing these two options literally. On the left are these costs/benefits (of choosing OW) and on the right are these costs/benefits (of choosing W) but where are your feelings in all of this? Who do you imagine sitting in a rocking chair with when you are 80? Who will be there for you to wipe your a-- when you are old and sick? Who's a-- are you lovingly going to wipe when she is old and sick? Sorry to be so literal, but think about the big picture/long term scenario not just the bumps of the next year. I had the A, my H and I separated, but eventually found our way back and are working very hard together. Your M can recover but ONLY if you are 100% committed. Best wishes!
BB07 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 It looks like you are looking for the easiest way out and you seem to think that being with the OW would be the easiest. The reason I say this is because you have mentioned more than once how well the kids get along. Hell-O, when the kids find out what the real story is........and they will, then all that happy together stuff will go down the drain. You also seem to think that being with your OW will be easier for you because you won't have to move and you can stay in your job and you say that the family is more accepting of your OW, so that in your mind speaks easier. IMO I don't think that you are viewing being with your OW realistically. I'm with the others of the opinion that you need to get away from your wife and your OW because you've made choices that have made one hell of a mess and there are no easy fixes. You need some time to get your head clear minus the influence of your family and the OW. You've got one hell of a mess to clean up.
Heather1 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 It sounds like your W doesn't have boundaries either, and is (or was) depressed. Not to bash your parents, but shame on them for not supporting your decision to marry your W & stay w/ her now. What's up w/ that? You're w's not only competing w/ OW, she's competing w/ your parents. That part is never going to change, EVER. Without family & friends supporting your M, you can pretty much forget it.
Carrot2000 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 OW and I get along great, the kids get along great, and there would have to be little change to my career and family life. If i was to stay with BS, a lot of things would need to change, job, office, relationship with parents and sister, and bs also wants to move, not out of the school district, but farther from my parents. HowMeHere I know thinking this way feeds the fantasy, but you are delusional if you don't believe leaving your marriage for another woman wouldn't change your family life. EVERYTHING is going to change. You are trying to hold onto your current life while moving forward with another partner, and it jsut ain't that simple. You want you wife to change so much about herself; what are you willing to change about who you are? As you've admitted, you have serious boundary and conflict issues, partly evidenced about your concerns about moving away from your parents and sister and allowing your father to take over your business. HMH, it sounds like you've become such a people-pleaser that you've forgotten that you exist as an individual. Whether you stay married or not, you need to get serious about working with your therapist on learning to set--and respect--appropriate boundaries with people. If you don't, nothing is going to improve in your marriage, and you are going to carry these issues into your next relationship if you do decide to be with OW. Keep seeing a counselor and I stand by my suggestion that you get a place of your own. It won't take food out your kid's mouths--you will just have to learn to live on less to make sure they don't suffer financially.
Author HowMeHere Posted December 27, 2010 Author Posted December 27, 2010 I too raised four kids and boy was it ever lonely. I know my H was working his a-- off, but believe me, there were many days he had it much easier than I did! When the kids got older and I went back to work full time, I eventually became CEO of a small business and again, that wasn't nearly as hard as staying home with four kids, so I completely understand why she might have been upset/complaining to you. It's just too bad you guys couldn't talk about THAT issue, before it got to the level that it did...but anyways,.... The last paragraph is interesting to me. It seems as if you are weighing these two options literally. On the left are these costs/benefits (of choosing OW) and on the right are these costs/benefits (of choosing W) but where are your feelings in all of this? Who do you imagine sitting in a rocking chair with when you are 80? Who will be there for you to wipe your a-- when you are old and sick? Who's a-- are you lovingly going to wipe when she is old and sick? Sorry to be so literal, but think about the big picture/long term scenario not just the bumps of the next year. I had the A, my H and I separated, but eventually found our way back and are working very hard together. Your M can recover but ONLY if you are 100% committed. Best wishes! Who di I imagine sitting in a rocking chair. It used to be clear, i never knew it any other way. Now that is really blurry to me. I have tried thinking that, but I can't get it clear. Yes, I am trying to weigh the pros and cons, I Read When Good People Have Affairs, Too good to leave, too bad to stay, some of How to know when it's time to go, and it hasn't helped me form a concrete decision yet. As far as the loneliness being an issue, that's one. This morning was a reminder of another. Finances. Since things came out I have been trying to help her with the financial aspect of things, when we got back together for that brief time in mid october we restructured some finances to make things less expensive. I helped hewr with a budget,and she continually blows it. By $1200 this last month, excluding xmas presents. She says it's expensive becasue of christmas, but theres more to it than that. And she blames me for the finances, but thats been another sore spot, and today shes taking the kdis to the movies when she knows it dosen't fit her budget. I said does it fit? se said "Can i just please take the kids to the movie" and I said it was her decision... It looks like you are looking for the easiest way out and you seem to think that being with the OW would be the easiest. The reason I say this is because you have mentioned more than once how well the kids get along. Hell-O, when the kids find out what the real story is........and they will, then all that happy together stuff will go down the drain. You also seem to think that being with your OW will be easier for you because you won't have to move and you can stay in your job and you say that the family is more accepting of your OW, so that in your mind speaks easier. IMO I don't think that you are viewing being with your OW realistically. I'm with the others of the opinion that you need to get away from your wife and your OW because you've made choices that have made one hell of a mess and there are no easy fixes. You need some time to get your head clear minus the influence of your family and the OW. You've got one hell of a mess to clean up. Not so easy top escape. Work with both dad and ow, and ow comes over to visit my mom and dad at the house which is where i stay. It sounds like your W doesn't have boundaries either, and is (or was) depressed. Not to bash your parents, but shame on them for not supporting your decision to marry your W & stay w/ her now. What's up w/ that? You're w's not only competing w/ OW, she's competing w/ your parents. That part is never going to change, EVER. Without family & friends supporting your M, you can pretty much forget it. I see that too.. I don't know how to deal with the lack of support. my BS feels i have never defended her to my family, and i have to a point, but when i get stressed, well, my dad has been my closest friend for a long time, until ow came along, aside from my bs of course, but there were things we could not communicate about and she didn't want to hear much anything to do with my work, and thats a big part of my life. It's entangled. I know thinking this way feeds the fantasy, but you are delusional if you don't believe leaving your marriage for another woman wouldn't change your family life. EVERYTHING is going to change. You are trying to hold onto your current life while moving forward with another partner, and it jsut ain't that simple. You want you wife to change so much about herself; what are you willing to change about who you are? As you've admitted, you have serious boundary and conflict issues, partly evidenced about your concerns about moving away from your parents and sister and allowing your father to take over your business. HMH, it sounds like you've become such a people-pleaser that you've forgotten that you exist as an individual. Whether you stay married or not, you need to get serious about working with your therapist on learning to set--and respect--appropriate boundaries with people. If you don't, nothing is going to improve in your marriage, and you are going to carry these issues into your next relationship if you do decide to be with OW. Keep seeing a counselor and I stand by my suggestion that you get a place of your own. It won't take food out your kid's mouths--you will just have to learn to live on less to make sure they don't suffer financially. I am trying to figure out what I am willing to change about myself. And it looks like bs likes me the way i am as long as i don't work as much, change jobs, move, and don't communicate or vastly limit communication with my family. And even then, she dosen't seem to be well adressing the issues I have with regards to finances and how she had a part in me getting to a point so fruistrated that I hadan affair. She says none of it is her fault. But, it's not all mine. If i'd have been happy at home and felt i could communicate well then i woudn't have felt those huge unmet needs and ended up wandering. I understand I didn't spend as much time as she wanted me to at home and with the kids. I understand we were under financial stress. And i don't lay the blame solely on her, but I don't take it all either. With the lifestyle we live there is an amount of income that needs to be generated,. and that takes time, and all this time was put in so the business would be large enough I could hire people to do the work, and i would ultimately have more time with the kids. Too tough of a transition for us maybe... ? HowMeHere
BB07 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Why are your parents such good friends with the OW? Why do they disrespect and dislike your wife so much? To me................this just sounds so abnormal it's hard to comprehend.
spice4life Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Wow, your story sounds heart wrenching. I really feel for you as it sounds like you have no idea about what you should do. Maybe you should tell both your bs and your ow that you need space and time to sort things out. It's the only way you will be able to clear your head and figure out what you want. Couple of questions. Has your bs always been this needy? Or did it start after you began the affair? Do you and the OW each have 4 kids? That right there is A LOT to consider. 8 kids, holy cow! Please correct me if I'm wrong. Some things to consider would be, is there any chance your marriage can be saved? Has your wife always been this demanding? At the very least, you should go to counseling to help you figure out what you want. No one can do that for you. Once you have better idea what you want then begin to make decisions. Don't do anything until then. If you need your own place then get one! You need that in order to sort yourself out. Take charge, stand up to your bs and tell her that in order for things to settle down you NEED this space and you're going to do it! Then only deal with her regarding the kids to keep boundaries. You also need to tell you ow to step back and stay out of your personal life for now. No dinners with YOUR family for goodness sake! What was that all about? Seek counseling immediately if you haven't already.
BenThereDunThat Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Why are your parents such good friends with the OW? Why do they disrespect and dislike your wife so much? To me................this just sounds so abnormal it's hard to comprehend. Agreed. My parents very strongly disliked (just this side of hate) my brother's wife. I could never see them be welcoming and friendly to an OW. Not that he would ever be so ballsy as to bring one around. That's a head scratcher there.
Author HowMeHere Posted December 27, 2010 Author Posted December 27, 2010 I know thinking this way feeds the fantasy, but you are delusional if you don't believe leaving your marriage for another woman wouldn't change your family life. EVERYTHING is going to change. You are trying to hold onto your current life while moving forward with another partner, and it jsut ain't that simple. You want you wife to change so much about herself; what are you willing to change about who you are? As you've admitted, you have serious boundary and conflict issues, partly evidenced about your concerns about moving away from your parents and sister and allowing your father to take over your business. HMH, it sounds like you've become such a people-pleaser that you've forgotten that you exist as an individual. Whether you stay married or not, you need to get serious about working with your therapist on learning to set--and respect--appropriate boundaries with people. If you don't, nothing is going to improve in your marriage, and you are going to carry these issues into your next relationship if you do decide to be with OW. Keep seeing a counselor and I stand by my suggestion that you get a place of your own. It won't take food out your kid's mouths--you will just have to learn to live on less to make sure they don't suffer financially. That people pleaser bit. I feel that way. It's frustrating as hell. Doing all I can to keep everyone happy and don't know what way to go becasue someone is going to get hurt. I know, it's going to happen regardless. But me actually making the decision to do that right now is something i am having a hard time doing. I don't know if it's really that hard of a decision or if i am just avoiding making one. My decision on what's the better thing to do changes every day it seems. Sometimes it feels like neither is better even. But I look into my BS's eyes and I see that love still, and same thing for OW. My BS feels that i have been maipualted a lot in this situation, as she was by OW, and she feels i still love her. And i do.. but there are some serious issues.
BenThereDunThat Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Well, obviously you can't go one living in in-between land. Seems to me your only option is to nut-up and DECIDE one way or the other. Decide and stick with that decision. Being a people pleaser (or just plain ol' conflict avoider) is making matters worse for everyone involved in your little universe there. You stand in the middle with all these people orbiting around you waiting on YOU to decide what's best for YOU and YOUR feelings.
Author HowMeHere Posted December 27, 2010 Author Posted December 27, 2010 Wow, your story sounds heart wrenching. I really feel for you as it sounds like you have no idea about what you should do. Maybe you should tell both your bs and your ow that you need space and time to sort things out. It's the only way you will be able to clear your head and figure out what you want. Couple of questions. Has your bs always been this needy? Or did it start after you began the affair? Do you and the OW each have 4 kids? That right there is A LOT to consider. 8 kids, holy cow! Please correct me if I'm wrong. Some things to consider would be, is there any chance your marriage can be saved? Has your wife always been this demanding? At the very least, you should go to counseling to help you figure out what you want. No one can do that for you. Once you have better idea what you want then begin to make decisions. Don't do anything until then. If you need your own place then get one! You need that in order to sort yourself out. Take charge, stand up to your bs and tell her that in order for things to settle down you NEED this space and you're going to do it! Then only deal with her regarding the kids to keep boundaries. You also need to tell you ow to step back and stay out of your personal life for now. No dinners with YOUR family for goodness sake! What was that all about? Seek counseling immediately if you haven't already. Oops.. didn't answer about kids. 4 each.
hopeless4u Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Well, here goes I have been in an affair with my OW for a year and a half before we were discovered. I have been hopping over and sitting on the fence as to what to do for nearly 4 months nOW since things came out. I have read a lot of things about it, and tried to figure out what my heart and head want me to do. It’s an awkward situation. I got into this affair because I was not happy at home and the OW and I have known each other for a long time, almost 10 years. She was having marital troubles too. The status is we were both married, she has since separated from her husband and has the kids, and I am separated from my wife, and she has the kids a bit more than me. We were both married, both with 4 kids when things started The thing is, although I was having a hard time, and in this affair, I never led onto it at home. I always told my wife I loved her every day, and our relationship didn’t change sexually or anything like that. A lot of that was to ensure there wasn’t any change in how I was to her. We were still affectionate as ever, and did stuff together, and when things weren’t stressful and she was not angry with me, things were good. We have in common to do the best for our children, but have different ways of going about it. I work a LOT, and she is a stay at home mom. She’s had a hard time with the hours I work, and lately those hours have also housed an affair as well as lots of work. In the time I was in the affair, she said that was the best amount of time I had spent with the kids and the family. I had thought I had done well throughout our marriage considering the amount I worked, but she said I wasn’t a good dad I had glimmers of being a good dad. That hurt a lot. I worked very hard for my family, to provide well for them and make sure their needs were met, and their wants as much as I could. We’d had problems leading up to my affair, and it was really hard. I felt very taken for granted and under appreciated. After the affair started, we talked about things and tried working through them somewhat (how can it be anything more when I am having an affair, really) and there were things she had done to try and make changes. Some of them she failed miserably and failed to even see where my frustration was, but she did try. This is what rips me up. She believes with all her heart that she tried to make things better in our relationship. I’ll grant she was a bit more accepting about time I spent at work, but I was still facing barrages of phone calls especially if she was having a bad day. Her trying was hindered as well. I had given up in some ways. She would be demanding and badger me until I did what she asked, she’d call me at work and give me crap for things I really had no bearing on. And I just started to do whatever she asked. It was easier to do that. Sometimes ridiculous, but I would do it. In the middle of a project at work and go to the store, get her ice cream or whatever, drop it home and go back to work and try to get my head back into what I was doing while all the time she is sitting on the couch watching a show She’d call me at work and if I didn’t answer persist until I did, or call the office direct instead of my cel phone. I got messages from my office saying my wife was calling after she’d tried to call me, and the issues were not urgent. It was so frustrating My stress showed at work. It’s a small office with only 6 people and my OW is one of them. People in the office could tell when I had been on the phone with my wife and she’d taken a run at me, or when I had been given crap at home. After the affair cam out one of my coworkers said she knew when I’d had an issue with my wife because I was incapacitated from doing anything productive for half an hour after the phone call. And she also said when the OW came in, she noticed how my spirits would rise right away Our families grew together after the affair started, the kids became friends and my wife and OW did things together as well. Another part of keeping things under wraps I guess, maybe call it hiding in plain sight (or trying to anyways). Not a nice thing to do, but it gave us more time together and justified it. Our kids became friends, and each of our older kids even dated for a while (that was weird). We grew closer together and the lies grew bigger and more elaborate. We did whatever we could to keep the affair together, but neither of us were ready to break from our marriages. Finally she was ready to break from hers, and 1 hour before her husband was going to move out of the house, he walked in on us at the office.[/ Obviously the spit hit the fan then. He told my wife, and that weekend there was a planned outing, we went out as a family to an event that was planned to go to, and I got an earful about the affair. She asked me, and I told her whatever she asked, and she in turn told anyone who would listen. Very angry and very damaging to me with my friends and family, and in the community. Of course she’s angry, I just think she might have gone a bit too far. Every bit of badmouthing she did hurt her too, because it affects my business in town. I listened to her on our family outing, and I thought I had better keep it together and leave the OW, but when we came back home, I sent to my dads and stayed there a bit. He also works in the office, and he told me what he thought, and other people at the office told be what they thought, and they thought my BS was demanding and affected me in a very negative way, and my OW was good for me. It threw me for a loop, and I rethought things, and decided it would be better for me to stay with the OW. That went ok until about 6 weeks after the affair or 4 weeks with the OW only and I cracked. I was overwhelmed with the sense of loss of my BS, and felt like I had to go back to her. We talked and worked on some things, worked on some financial things that appeared to be a source of a lot of our issues, and after about a week she let me down on a veryt important anniversary and I cracked again, and left town for a few days to clear my head. After I came back I had dome some flip flopping but ened up saying wait, I can’t commit to either of you right now, and I have been in this holding pattern for almost 2 months. I have no idea what to do, I feel paralyzed. I hear my wife and she says how badly things went down, and how bad my father and the OW treated her and how she feels I was manipulated by the OW because she wanted me and was jealous of my BS’s life. I feel terrible with the thought of breaking up my family On the other hand I see how happy I am with OW, and that makes me feel good. The kids are good together, and we are good together, and it’s nice. My moods and emotions have been putting both these women through hell. I have been trying to avoid the kids getting hurt by trying to remove them from the situation as much as I can. I treat my kids as my kids, and they love me, and I don’t see her kids, haven’t for a while. I don’t want to get an emotional bond built with them when I am so screwed up as to what I am going to do I am right now living with my parents, and at home daily to see the kids when they are not staying with me, and I am talking with my BS. I still am seeing the OW, and BS dosen’t know this. Here I am, am I cheating all over again? I feel horrible about breaking up my marriage. BS tells me she wanted to go out to school and get a career or work with me before the affair came out, now if we split, she will be limited to what she can do because she will have to work. I feel like I would be ripping away that opportunity from her if we split. She feels like she’s been used, had all this time as a mom, and was going to go to school, and she can’t if we split. I feel so guilty and horrible. I think the kids would be ok either way. But I am still torn apart by the feelings of my BS. I didn’t intend to have an affair when I got married, I did it because I thought it was going to be forever, and so did she. I feel like a failure, and like I have let down my family. Now my situation is no better. I have BS and OW up in the air because I cannot commit to making a decision, and I have read about stringing women along, and I don’t know what this is. I know I need to end it with one, but I am afraid to, and fear going through the withdrawl of one relationship, and leaving one person so hurt. They both love me, and they both want me, and I love them both as well. HOW screwed up is that On top of that OW and my father have a working relationship and a friendship. My mom and ad went to OW’s for Christmas dinner while I spent it with my BS and kids. OW has also developed a strong friendship with my sister, and these relationships have grown since the affair came out. Everyone knows I haven’t been able to commit to a decision, but with all the outside forces it makes it hard for me to feel like I am making a decision for me and not because of the outside forces of friendships with my family on the OW’s side, and broken dreams and future on my BS’s side. I would have to abandon the office and the years of brand building and advertising, sever the relationship with OW (obviously) and darsticaly change my relationship with my familiy by limiting contact with them, and as of late discussions with BS, she would want to move as well. Not out of the school district, but to a more affordable home farther from my father and sister (we live very close now) I am afraid that leaving my job would make me unable to support my family because it would mean starting with a relatively clean slate and rebuilding. And if I stay with OW, this would not have to change. My career has been a journey to get me where I am, and I am passionate about what I do. I would have to give up a huge part of my life to stay with my BS, and I don’t know that she could make the changes that would make us work if I tried to stay, and … it’s hard… I feel riddled with guilt about leaving. I still do love her. I think about the good times we have had, and there have been many. But the bad times put me into an affair, and I don’t want to do that again. I am overwhelmed by the thoughts of how if I waited it out and when she moved out of stay-at-home mom mode to something different, it would be a next step in our relationship that would be so much better, and maybe I am throwing that away prematurely. She says how she was so looking forward to going to school and spending more time with me before this all came out I am at a loss as to what to do. I don’t know who to be with. If I don’t act soon, it won’t be my choice and I may just lose them both If you are a truthful MM and you really love your OW then leave her alone and sort your M out. Please believe me I am an xOW who still loves my xMM with every bone in my body, even though I know he will never leave. DO NOT let your OW believe something could be if it couldn't be....it will only cause more heartbreak... LET HER GO....
awkward Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Man you have really put yourself into one clucked up situation. I feel badly for you and your family minus your parents who no matter how they feel about your wife are disrespectful and lacking simple boundaries. (Imagine your wife having Christmas dinner with your father's mistress. How would your mom feel about that?) Also, since you are in counseling I think you should explore these FOO issues that clearly demonstrate that there is a lack of respect for your marriage and family. I think my advice is going to be different than most here. I think you need to leave the marriage. This is probably the best thing you can do for your wife. There are men out there that will choose to treat her with respect and love her. I'm thinking long term here. Not just if it's easier for you. I'm thinking in 20 years your wife will probably be grateful for being free of you and your family. I'm not implying that you are an awful person. I'm just going by the information that you have presented to us. With that information it is IMO that any path you choose with either women is a recipe for disaster. You being alone is probably your best course. IMO soon your father will have taken over your business and your OW will be your wife. Then in a few years you will probably find that your parents don't love your OW anymore and will have disrespect for your new marriage. Add to that all of the additional stress of step-parenting your OW's children, your own kids behavior from their home breaking up to you spending time with OW/her kids, financially supporting two households, and your feelings about your kids new step-father, life isn't going to be "easier". A lot (not all) of the behaviors that you see from your wife are probably symptoms of your lack of boundaries. The fact that your OW has a relationship with your parents and comes to visit them while your living there and supposedly trying to figure out what the heck you are doing is completely and utterly dumbfounding. Just the fact that your wife is even considering reconciling with you is telling that she herself has issues. I'm glad that she is in IC. Hopefully, it won't take very many more sessions for her to take the decision out of your hands. Fast forward to a couple of years from now. How do you see your life? Can you see regret? Can you see happiness? Can you see your parents accepting you and your choices? I'm glad that you are in IC. I think you can fix your issues but it's going to take time. Honestly, I can't imagine dragging someone else along for that ride.
whichwayisup Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Go complete NC with the OW and separate from your wife, only deal with her when it has to do with the kids. Be alone and stick to counselling, figure things out. Space to think, space to sort you out before making a decision. You can't just hop out of your marriage and straight into the arms of the OW and you can't just pop back into your marriage either. Being alone is something that could help you in the long run. To stay and continue contact with the OW and stay married is not fair to either woman and also your kids.
woinlove Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 You don't write of anything that sounds like a basis for staying married. It seems that your feelings which make you think you should stay married have more to do with guilt about your wife not realizing her goals for education and work and perhaps guilt over the way you wove your affair into your family life, involving your wife and children, out of convenience. These have solutions - IC can help you deal with guilt and can help your children adjust if they learn the truth and feel betrayed, and alimony and child support can help your wife achieve her goals. And you can move on to be with your OW. It's true that you shouldn't base your decision on what your parents or colleagues think, but they may see the lack of respect (justified or not) that you have for your wife and her role in your family (which comes through clearly in what you write here) and see that there really isn't a basis for an ongoing marriage.
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