Deleted and blocked on Facebook

[ozziegal8]

I do hope that everything goes well. Don't get me wrong.

 

I just know that love can be kind of like a life lottery and you need to do everything to tip the odds in your favour.

 

You will see that a lot of posters on here will wail about the unfairness of it all:

 

"Men don't fall all over me because I am fat, wah"

 

"Women only want to use a guy because she's a parasite, there aren't enough good girls, wah"

 

When really by not buying tickets for the user, or superficial types AND by making yourself as physically and emotionally healthy as you can be, you vastly improve your odds. By trying to gauge someone else's interest and potentially throwing yourself under the bus over it, you would be decreasing your odds. Granted everything is case-by-case, but as you get older you see certain correlations.

 

Just like games like blackjack and roulette all have different odds, so do different types of relationships and different types of people. I truly don't think that anyone under a certain level of relational health can maintain a long-term healthy relationship.

 

(None of this I am saying to you specifically. They are generalities, the problem today is most people think that they are the exception to the rule, not one of the ones that the rule applies to.

 

he is coming into my work tmw to have lunch with me and then taking me for a picnic on saturday.

this is something the other WOULDNT do...

i realise now how badly he treated me.

[dreamingoftigers]

he is coming into my work tmw to have lunch with me and then taking me for a picnic on saturday.

this is something the other WOULDNT do...

i realise now how badly he treated me.

 

That is really good.

Gosh I haven't been on a picnic in ages.... but it isn't as much fun when there is half of foot of snow on the ground.

 

It seems that your guy may have some gentlemanly qualities.

 

Just remember that it isn't about whether this guy is better than the last, even though there is the natural tendency to compare. Make sure he is treating you with a high enough standard. This is not selfishness. Making sure that you treat someone you are dating with positivity and respect and making sure that they do the same is actually very important for both of your characters and potential future.

 

I am not saying that you are going to run down the aisle anytime soon (or ever). Often though within the next ten years or so, the odds are great that you will enter into a long term relationship or marriage. And being female there is an 86% chance that you will eventually become a mother. Who you choose as your partner to date will have a huge affect on the way you live, your long-term health and happiness and possibly the same for your decendants. (Yay, I have probably scared the crap out of you!)

 

Just saying, don't take any crap, life's too short and it shouldn't be spend over being depressed over a partner that doesn't treat you as well as he should.

 

Good luck

[ozziegal8]

will keep you posted about how its going.

ive enrolled to do a course on woman who have been in abusive relationships (i have just come out of one before the internet idiot).

[ozziegal8]

so the new boy came and had lunch with me, he was being full on saying things like going up to my folks hol house meeting his mum etc.

he wanted to see me the following night and day but i said i would see him on the saturday.

so we caught up and gave the picnic the flick as it was bad weather and we went out drinking, my friends came and met us.

he was being full on and saying 'i think you wish you hadn't slept with me on the first night etc' and then about having kids and im also thinking of moving out and he said if we had known each longer he would move in with me.

i felt quite nervous and put on the spot and my friends were all drinking and having a good time so of course i was drinking.

we went home and slept together and straight after i felt very ill, and had to run

to the loo to be sick i had to tell him but i was very discreet.

spent the next day together just watching tv he also felt hungover but i felt he was very standoffish with me. i dont know maybe im being paranoid.

he wasnt as affectionate as normal and made no plan about catching up.

he was finding out about a job today and has job inteview tmw so i rang tonight and he didnt answer and had not message bank so i just sent a text saying just tried to phone you how was your day and did you hear about work?

he replied about an hour later that he hadnt and that he was very tired from work. i phoned him to say good luck for tmw and to apologise for getting drunk and its not normally 'me'. he said that was ok but why did i drink so much? anyway i apologised. he was very tired and kept yawning is that rude?he also said if he doesnt get job he will go and visit his mother 2 hours flight away.

anyway he said he would let me know about the job interview and there was no mention of catching up?

have i messed it up or does it sound like his backing off or lost interest?

[Truly Lost]

Getting really drunk in front of your date can be a turn off. None of us really know what is going on inside his head. From what you mentioned it does sound like he is taking a bit of a step back.

 

You should trying taking sex out of the equation when you date. It takes two to tango, but you want a guy to like you for you, not like you because he thinks he is going to get laid. The whole point of dating is to see if you two will get along together. If you take your dates more seriously you just might find yourself in a serious relationship. This is not to say you shouldn't be yourself, but you should be on your best behaviour in the beginning. Sex on the first date should never be a consideration and getting drunk is definately not attractive.

 

It's too late to take any of your actions back. You just have to move forward. If I were you, I would let him do most, if not all of the initiating from now on. His actions will tell you where he stands with you. If he gets in contact with you less and less, then you know he is about to bow out.

 

There is still hope, but if it doesn't work...then let this be a lesson. Take things slow. If a guy likes you, he will wait as long as it takes (within reason) to have sex with you. And don't get wasted in front of him again.

[ozziegal8]

Getting really drunk in front of your date can be a turn off. None of us really know what is going on inside his head. From what you mentioned it does sound like he is taking a bit of a step back.

 

You should trying taking sex out of the equation when you date. It takes two to tango, but you want a guy to like you for you, not like you because he thinks he is going to get laid. The whole point of dating is to see if you two will get along together. If you take your dates more seriously you just might find yourself in a serious relationship. This is not to say you shouldn't be yourself, but you should be on your best behaviour in the beginning. Sex on the first date should never be a consideration and getting drunk is definately not attractive.

 

It's too late to take any of your actions back. You just have to move forward. If I were you, I would let him do most, if not all of the initiating from now on. His actions will tell you where he stands with you. If he gets in contact with you less and less, then you know he is about to bow out.

 

There is still hope, but if it doesn't work...then let this be a lesson. Take things slow. If a guy likes you, he will wait as long as it takes (within reason) to have sex with you. And don't get wasted in front of him again.

 

i apologised to him though, and said its not a normal 'behaviour' he said 'sure' in a smart way.

when i slept with him i had no intention of seeing him again but he was full on with me after it making plans for the future. then the 2nd time i saw him i knocked him back with sex and went home.

i text him last to see how his interview went and he never replied.

what should i think/do?

[ConflictedGuy27]

train wreck...

 

those are the two words that come to mind after re-reading this thread, OP.

same cereal, different box. you just let dudes in and react.

 

in the early days of your thread, I called you lucky because you were pursuing a total deadbeat and you were upset that he dumped you. that's somewhat understandable -- as nobody welcomes rejection.

 

however, here you go again making really strange choices, just one after another.

 

you should consider being alone for awhile (i.e. not lonely, just by yourself, also known as solitude) to think about what it is you want. God help you if you get pregnant. & I mean that in all seriousness. what are you doing out there?!

 

I hope my incendiary approach is somehow getting through to you. if not, I'll spell it out a bit more clearly:

 

LAY OFF ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS FOR AWHILE.

you make consistently risky decisions...

Edited January 12, 2011 by ConflictedGuy27

[ozziegal8]

train wreck...

 

those are the two words that come to mind after re-reading this thread, OP.

same cereal, different box. you just let dudes in and react.

 

in the early days of your thread, I called you lucky because you were pursuing a total deadbeat and you were upset that he dumped you. that's somewhat understandable -- as nobody welcomes rejection.

 

however, here you go again making really strange choices, just one after another.

 

you should consider being alone for awhile (i.e. not lonely, just by yourself, also known as solitude) to think about what it is you want. God help you if you get pregnant. & I mean that in all seriousness. what are you doing out there?!

 

I hope my incendiary approach is somehow getting through to you. if not, I'll spell it out a bit more clearly:

 

LAY OFF ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS FOR AWHILE.

you make consistently risky decisions...

 

ok do you mean going for total losers?

[ConflictedGuy27]

ok do you mean going for total losers?

 

it's beyond that. it's like you don't care.

if for instance you haphazardly stumbled across the perfect guy, you'd proceed as you normally would with the anti-perfect guy (i.e. total deadbeat).

 

at least in a romantic sense, your capacity to choose a potential mate needs a tuneup.

 

I really can't say more, with confidence, because (this being a dating forum) you've only discussed aspects of your romantic life. there could be more (or less) to the entire issue. you're in counseling & that really is a good thing. concentrate there and perhaps you'll gain some meaningful insight.

 

I really do wish you all the best.

[ozziegal8]

it's beyond that. it's like you don't care.

if for instance you haphazardly stumbled across the perfect guy, you'd proceed as you normally would with the anti-perfect guy (i.e. total deadbeat).

 

at least in a romantic sense, your capacity to choose a potential mate needs a tuneup.

 

I really can't say more, with confidence, because (this being a dating forum) you've only discussed aspects of your romantic life. there could be more (or less) to the entire issue. you're in counseling & that really is a good thing. concentrate there and perhaps you'll gain some meaningful insight.

 

I really do wish you all the best.

do you mean i would go for the loser guy instead of the 'nice' guy?

[ConflictedGuy27]

do you mean i would go for the loser guy instead of the 'nice' guy?

 

now I'm leaning towards gullible.

 

how could I answer such a question with certainty? yet you pose it as though I could. it's fascinating to me.

 

I challenge you; almost to the point of insulting you and you give me center stage to influence you.

 

I'd suspect you're very attractive. If I'm right that's a tough combination you're dealing with. most men would take advantage of you; it's no wonder you're so easily led on.

 

you're prey for guys like me.

 

again, focus in counseling, love. you've made your best decision yet. explore how you make decisions.

[ozziegal8]

now I'm leaning towards gullible.

 

how could I answer such a question with certainty? yet you pose it as though I could. it's fascinating to me.

 

I challenge you; almost to the point of insulting you and you give me center stage to influence you.

 

I'd suspect you're very attractive. If I'm right that's a tough combination you're dealing with. most men would take advantage of you; it's no wonder you're so easily led on.

 

you're prey for guys like me.

 

again, focus in counseling, love. you've made your best decision yet. explore how you make decisions.

 

sorry you last message wasnt clear to me that's why i questioned you its hard typing on here to sometimes make sense or get your point across.

are you saying i go for the wrong men?

[ConflictedGuy27]

sorry you last message wasnt clear to me that's why i questioned you its hard typing on here to sometimes make sense or get your point across.

are you saying i go for the wrong men?

 

I'm saying you're pretty cute. wouldn't you agree?

[dreamingoftigers]

Getting really drunk in front of your date can be a turn off. None of us really know what is going on inside his head. From what you mentioned it does sound like he is taking a bit of a step back.

 

You should trying taking sex out of the equation when you date. It takes two to tango, but you want a guy to like you for you, not like you because he thinks he is going to get laid. The whole point of dating is to see if you two will get along together. If you take your dates more seriously you just might find yourself in a serious relationship. This is not to say you shouldn't be yourself, but you should be on your best behaviour in the beginning. Sex on the first date should never be a consideration and getting drunk is definately not attractive.

 

It's too late to take any of your actions back. You just have to move forward. If I were you, I would let him do most, if not all of the initiating from now on. His actions will tell you where he stands with you. If he gets in contact with you less and less, then you know he is about to bow out.

 

There is still hope, but if it doesn't work...then let this be a lesson. Take things slow. If a guy likes you, he will wait as long as it takes (within reason) to have sex with you. And don't get wasted in front of him again.

 

I support the above post!

[Truly Lost]

Ozziegal8: (quote)

i apologised to him though, and said its not a normal 'behaviour' he said 'sure' in a smart way.

when i slept with him i had no intention of seeing him again but he was full on with me after it making plans for the future. then the 2nd time i saw him i knocked him back with sex and went home.

i text him last to see how his interview went and he never replied.

what should i think/do?

 

You gave him sex again?? (I hope it was protected)... WTF?!?....that was all he wanted!!!...you are (what the "Jersy Shore" guys call "DTF" (Down to F**K). Stop it!! You really don't want a boyfriend...do you!? Or...do you????

[dreamingoftigers]

i apologised to him though, and said its not a normal 'behaviour' he said 'sure' in a smart way.

when i slept with him i had no intention of seeing him again but he was full on with me after it making plans for the future. then the 2nd time i saw him i knocked him back with sex and went home.

i text him last to see how his interview went and he never replied.

what should i think/do?

 

Ozziegal, ConflictedGuy and I are both people that have been engaged in unhealthy relationships and made huge strides towards recovering from them. At this point we can pretty much spot the girl with the boundary issues from a mile away. I think him and I have both been in similar positions that way.

 

People are kind of funny and guys in particular are not going to operate the way that you expect. They are not generally going to give you brownie points for intentions nor are they typically going to develop an attachment just because someone sleeps with them. What they do tend to view it as is a nice way to pass the time until they get bored with that and move on. They will examine you by behaviour alone, they will see if your words match those actions later. You should do the same with guys.

 

Any guy worth his salt can clearly see that you are willing to give a fair amount of emotional investment into a relationship up front with very little investment from him. You did this with the last guy. It would not matter if you had man of the year, you would do it again. You would offer up too much too soon and show them what a nice, generous person you are.

 

train wreck...

 

those are the two words that come to mind after re-reading this thread, OP.

same cereal, different box. you just let dudes in and react.

 

in the early days of your thread, I called you lucky because you were pursuing a total deadbeat and you were upset that he dumped you. that's somewhat understandable -- as nobody welcomes rejection.

 

however, here you go again making really strange choices, just one after another.

 

you should consider being alone for awhile (i.e. not lonely, just by yourself, also known as solitude) to think about what it is you want. God help you if you get pregnant. & I mean that in all seriousness. what are you doing out there?!

 

I hope my incendiary approach is somehow getting through to you. if not, I'll spell it out a bit more clearly:

 

LAY OFF ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS FOR AWHILE.

you make consistently risky decisions...

 

Now, Ozziegal8 ConflictedGuy totally sees the same pattern I do. You are putting too much upfront into your relationships. This sends a major red flag to most healthy men. It tells them that you put most things up front at a minimum investment from them. So if they want what you have, they are going to invest minimally.

 

You may feel that a guy should feel 'lucky' to have found such a nice, permitting, sexual girl. They don't work like that, they think that they have found themselves someone needy and clingy who will give anything away to have the company of a man. Healthy men respond to a woman who lets them know that they are interested but doesn't give away all the goods upfront (emotional and physical). Healthy guy takes it slow, healthy girl doesn't let him push her faster then she wants.

 

My husband and I waited at least six weeks (holy crap I am old, we both don't remember exactly). He was a little out of joint about it but he actually grew pretty attached to me before we finally got down together. I would have actually waited longer. In fact I would have waited at least 3 months, I made my first boyfriend wait 6! But we were travelling alone together and we were together 24 hours a day for that six week period so we got to know each other pretty well.

 

The unfortunate part being that we were both actually unhealthy and ignored the other red flags in the relationship, but that is another story. The sex thing worked out pretty well in regards to making him wait being an incentive. As a guy because he waited, he felt that he got more value from finally being able to be my man.

 

ok do you mean going for total losers?

 

It wouldn't matter if you had 'winners' or 'losers' at this point in your relationship, if you are the one doing some heavy bonding after a minimum amount of being pursued, you are going to get unhealthy, unstable guys who just want someone to drop everything for them because they acted nice to you one night. They end up giving you crumbs of attention and affection (minimum investment) because that is all that you require of them.

 

I run a cleaning service, our richest clients take no crap. They watch out for themselves financially first. I am not saying to watch out for yourself to the exclusion of all others, but you need to find out what character traits you want from a guy and what character traits you have to offer. Do not give anything emotionally or physically to a guy until he shows you respect for your body and emotions. Do not give him anything until you see that his character matches the traits that you want. Guys are in abundance, really, really are. Over 3 billion of them, take your time.

 

it's beyond that. it's like you don't care.

if for instance you haphazardly stumbled across the perfect guy, you'd proceed as you normally would with the anti-perfect guy (i.e. total deadbeat).

 

at least in a romantic sense, your capacity to choose a potential mate needs a tuneup.

 

I really can't say more, with confidence, because (this being a dating forum) you've only discussed aspects of your romantic life. there could be more (or less) to the entire issue. you're in counseling & that really is a good thing. concentrate there and perhaps you'll gain some meaningful insight.

 

I really do wish you all the best.

 

Hopefully counseling will help you to learn about boundaries and healthy courtship. I am sure that ConflictedGuy and I both hope that you skip making the mistakes we did. He's got it right.

 

do you mean i would go for the loser guy instead of the 'nice' guy?

 

I would say that the nice guy would be able to spot the low-investment issue right away or within the first few dates. That would be enough for him to not want to have anything to do with you. The nice guys want the girls who they have to pay a higher price in terms of time and respect to get to. They know that these girls will not allow the guys to disrespect themselves by walking all over her. He respects her for that, and she respects him for being a decent guy and not trying to push her too fast into something she isn't ready for.

 

now I'm leaning towards gullible.

 

how could I answer such a question with certainty? yet you pose it as though I could. it's fascinating to me.

 

I challenge you; almost to the point of insulting you and you give me center stage to influence you.

 

I'd suspect you're very attractive. If I'm right that's a tough combination you're dealing with. most men would take advantage of you; it's no wonder you're so easily led on.

 

you're prey for guys like me.

 

again, focus in counseling, love. you've made your best decision yet. explore how you make decisions.

 

See CGs post here, (I thought he was being a little harsh earlier too, but it appears he had a plan or at least it looks like it).

 

 

sorry you last message wasnt clear to me that's why i questioned you its hard typing on here to sometimes make sense or get your point across.

are you saying i go for the wrong men?

 

Ozziegal, look up boundary setting for healthy relationships on google, look up setting personal boundaries etc. The type of men that you are going to attract are the type that are not considerate of your feelings OR are going to feel pushed into a relationship they don't want or aren't ready for because you are being too open with them (physically and emotionally) right off of the bat. You may also be spending too much time with them up front. You also don't give guys the boot when they treat you crappy. At this stage if guy #2 was standoffish with me, I probably would have gone home. Screw it, don't waste your time. Don't think along the lines of :"I didn't want to hurt his feelings or lose the guy." If a guy can't hold it together for the space of a date less then 10 days in, then that is a flag, a huge flag.

[ozziegal8]

Ozziegal, ConflictedGuy and I are both people that have been engaged in unhealthy relationships and made huge strides towards recovering from them. At this point we can pretty much spot the girl with the boundary issues from a mile away. I think him and I have both been in similar positions that way.

 

People are kind of funny and guys in particular are not going to operate the way that you expect. They are not generally going to give you brownie points for intentions nor are they typically going to develop an attachment just because someone sleeps with them. What they do tend to view it as is a nice way to pass the time until they get bored with that and move on. They will examine you by behaviour alone, they will see if your words match those actions later. You should do the same with guys.

 

Any guy worth his salt can clearly see that you are willing to give a fair amount of emotional investment into a relationship up front with very little investment from him. You did this with the last guy. It would not matter if you had man of the year, you would do it again. You would offer up too much too soon and show them what a nice, generous person you are.

 

 

 

Now, Ozziegal8 ConflictedGuy totally sees the same pattern I do. You are putting too much upfront into your relationships. This sends a major red flag to most healthy men. It tells them that you put most things up front at a minimum investment from them. So if they want what you have, they are going to invest minimally.

 

You may feel that a guy should feel 'lucky' to have found such a nice, permitting, sexual girl. They don't work like that, they think that they have found themselves someone needy and clingy who will give anything away to have the company of a man. Healthy men respond to a woman who lets them know that they are interested but doesn't give away all the goods upfront (emotional and physical). Healthy guy takes it slow, healthy girl doesn't let him push her faster then she wants.

 

My husband and I waited at least six weeks (holy crap I am old, we both don't remember exactly). He was a little out of joint about it but he actually grew pretty attached to me before we finally got down together. I would have actually waited longer. In fact I would have waited at least 3 months, I made my first boyfriend wait 6! But we were travelling alone together and we were together 24 hours a day for that six week period so we got to know each other pretty well.

 

The unfortunate part being that we were both actually unhealthy and ignored the other red flags in the relationship, but that is another story. The sex thing worked out pretty well in regards to making him wait being an incentive. As a guy because he waited, he felt that he got more value from finally being able to be my man.

 

 

 

It wouldn't matter if you had 'winners' or 'losers' at this point in your relationship, if you are the one doing some heavy bonding after a minimum amount of being pursued, you are going to get unhealthy, unstable guys who just want someone to drop everything for them because they acted nice to you one night. They end up giving you crumbs of attention and affection (minimum investment) because that is all that you require of them.

 

I run a cleaning service, our richest clients take no crap. They watch out for themselves financially first. I am not saying to watch out for yourself to the exclusion of all others, but you need to find out what character traits you want from a guy and what character traits you have to offer. Do not give anything emotionally or physically to a guy until he shows you respect for your body and emotions. Do not give him anything until you see that his character matches the traits that you want. Guys are in abundance, really, really are. Over 3 billion of them, take your time.

 

 

 

Hopefully counseling will help you to learn about boundaries and healthy courtship. I am sure that ConflictedGuy and I both hope that you skip making the mistakes we did. He's got it right.

 

 

 

I would say that the nice guy would be able to spot the low-investment issue right away or within the first few dates. That would be enough for him to not want to have anything to do with you. The nice guys want the girls who they have to pay a higher price in terms of time and respect to get to. They know that these girls will not allow the guys to disrespect themselves by walking all over her. He respects her for that, and she respects him for being a decent guy and not trying to push her too fast into something she isn't ready for.

 

 

 

See CGs post here, (I thought he was being a little harsh earlier too, but it appears he had a plan or at least it looks like it).

 

 

 

 

Ozziegal, look up boundary setting for healthy relationships on google, look up setting personal boundaries etc. The type of men that you are going to attract are the type that are not considerate of your feelings OR are going to feel pushed into a relationship they don't want or aren't ready for because you are being too open with them (physically and emotionally) right off of the bat. You may also be spending too much time with them up front. You also don't give guys the boot when they treat you crappy. At this stage if guy #2 was standoffish with me, I probably would have gone home. Screw it, don't waste your time. Don't think along the lines of :"I didn't want to hurt his feelings or lose the guy." If a guy can't hold it together for the space of a date less then 10 days in, then that is a flag, a huge flag.

 

i understand everything you are saying here but with guy #2 i did not give too much of myself away ( i slept with him i know on first date) but i had no intention of seeing him again it was only the next day when HE started making plans to see him again and being full on about meeting my parents etc.

after this first night i did nooo chasing it was all him making plans and the next day when we caught up i went home and gave him no s////. he said he understood and was thinking that morning he wouldnt do it with me either as he wanted to get to know me. after that he came and had lunch with me at work and was talking about all sorts of future plans i didnt agree and just nodded my head, he wanted to see me the next day but i said no...as it was too much for me.

sat night he was also being full on about the 'future'.

so in that case no i wasnt giving myself away to him or showing this to him in fact i was pulling away. i was not as into him as the other one.

so why if he was the one chasing and me holding back would he suddenly pull away?

[ozziegal8]

one of my best friends has recently just had ONS with two guys she is now in a relationship with one and the other is still chasing her.

[daphne]

one of my best friends has recently just had ONS with two guys she is now in a relationship with one and the other is still chasing her.

 

Ozzie,

 

It sounds like you're not interested in improving, despite the fact that everyone's trying to gently tell you that your actions aren't healthy. Keep doing what you've always done, and you'll keep getting what you've always gotten.

 

If you don't think you have a problem, why do you keep asking for advice?

[dreamingoftigers]

i understand everything you are saying here but with guy #2 i did not give too much of myself away ( i slept with him i know on first date) but i had no intention of seeing him again it was only the next day when HE started making plans to see him again and being full on about meeting my parents etc.

after this first night i did nooo chasing it was all him making plans and the next day when we caught up i went home and gave him no s////. he said he understood and was thinking that morning he wouldnt do it with me either as he wanted to get to know me. after that he came and had lunch with me at work and was talking about all sorts of future plans i didnt agree and just nodded my head, he wanted to see me the next day but i said no...as it was too much for me.

sat night he was also being full on about the 'future'.

so in that case no i wasnt giving myself away to him or showing this to him in fact i was pulling away. i was not as into him as the other one.

so why if he was the one chasing and me holding back would he suddenly pull away?

 

one of my best friends has recently just had ONS with two guys she is now in a relationship with one and the other is still chasing her.

 

Relationships for the vast majority of women could fall out of the sky at any minute. If I left my husband tonight, I could be in a relationship by tomorrow morning, and I am not talking about a ONS. Most women, if they are willing to accept the whole enchilada and basically tell a guy that they empathize with their situation no matter what he doesn't have going on for himself could get into the relationship right off of the bat. In fact I would say a very large percentage of relationships start more one day nothing, next day full on dating bf/gf scenario.

 

Being in a relationship (in itself) does not say whether or not you or the other person or the relationship are healthy. Healthy relationships are the type where both partners are getting most of their intimate needs met (no two people can satisfy all of each other's needs, despite what love feels like in the beginning). If you are getting too involved or too sexual too quickly, it blinds you somewhat to what the other person is actually like, and it makes you act differently too. You would already be sleeping with someone that you don't even know if they can even begin to provide for your intimate needs.

 

The fact that your best friend had two ONS and ended up in a relationship with one tells me that there is a really good likelihood that it isn't healthy and probably that the two spend a heck of a lot of time together, maybe attached at the hip when she doesn't have other committments. Just a guess, not expecting you to agree here...

 

It may look happy and fun (and it probably is, my H and I were together 24/7, it was a blast) BUT the odds of it pulling through for the long haul are markedly low.

 

At my age and with what I have seen in relationships thus far, starting a relationship by having sex (whether or not you have wanted to start a relationship with that person) is a path to disaster.

 

Sex is a biological function that attracts you to the other person hormonally whether or not it is "normal behaviour" for you or you "liked them or not." There is no doubt in my mind that even if sex didn't change things for you, it did for this guy compared to how he would act with you otherwise.

 

If he is talking about the future etc that early on, I would suspect that he is a minimum investment guy as well. If a guy started talking future with me on day 2 that would present a major red flag to me, he wouldn't know me well enough to start talking like that. He might be a nice guy, but he doesn't sound like a healthy guy either. Healthy relationships are where people get to know each other slowly and don't get too attached before learning about each other. You make small investments and then see if they are returned. You see if the other person is consistent. If they aren't consistent, you move on, somewhat quickly too. It isn't your job to help them be a better person, you are their date, not their therapist.

 

Everyone has a list of what they want in a mate (some are ridiculous but that isn't the point). Included in that list should be someone whose actions match their words. Case in point guy #2 did a talk about the future on day 2, now on day 12, he has already pulled back and you know damn well he can't deliver. Of course it doesn't make sense for him to say that on day 2, for all he knows you could be an axe murderer. The point is healthy guy won't say that stuff until he knows 99% he can deliver. Then he would deliver, his actions would match his words.

 

So say someone likes you and they are promising the Sun, Moon and Stars by day two. I would wonder:

 

A) why? why such a great gift on day 2? Does this guy not have much else going on that me having sex with him was worth the Sun, Moon and Stars? Granted I am great in bed, but then wouldn't that mean he just likes the sex? This would not be a sign of any intimacy or connection. It would be a sign that he likes sex, and we had a good time together.

 

B) Can he even deliver the Sun, Moon and Stars? Last time I checked FedEx doesn't have a shipping policy on them, maybe this guy just likes to promise the SMS just to get me to like him, or get you hooked. Or maybe he really wants to give me the SMS but in reality has overestimated himself, or just can't.

 

If a guy is chasing you in a dead heat and not giving you much space, AND if you just show up every time he comes calling because you put off your other committments or because you don't even have any other committments. You are sending him the message that you require very little to have a relationship with.

 

If you require very little investment most guys are going to realize that you cannot give a great return. And a lot of guys don't get attached right away, girls tend to. So you get the feelings and the effort wasted while they walk away thinking "that was fun....for awhile."

 

Backing off is probably actually healthy for this guy, you need to back off too and see where his cards go. He isn't going to be able to make any rational decisions if you are crowding him (I am not saying that you are). If you aren't as into him, maybe you don't want to go there either.

 

With the next guy, whether he looks like a good time guy or not, hold off on the sex. Early sex forces intimacy before either one of you knows each other, it creates a sense of false intimacy and false security.

[ozziegal8]

Relationships for the vast majority of women could fall out of the sky at any minute. If I left my husband tonight, I could be in a relationship by tomorrow morning, and I am not talking about a ONS. Most women, if they are willing to accept the whole enchilada and basically tell a guy that they empathize with their situation no matter what he doesn't have going on for himself could get into the relationship right off of the bat. In fact I would say a very large percentage of relationships start more one day nothing, next day full on dating bf/gf scenario.

 

Being in a relationship (in itself) does not say whether or not you or the other person or the relationship are healthy. Healthy relationships are the type where both partners are getting most of their intimate needs met (no two people can satisfy all of each other's needs, despite what love feels like in the beginning). If you are getting too involved or too sexual too quickly, it blinds you somewhat to what the other person is actually like, and it makes you act differently too. You would already be sleeping with someone that you don't even know if they can even begin to provide for your intimate needs.

 

The fact that your best friend had two ONS and ended up in a relationship with one tells me that there is a really good likelihood that it isn't healthy and probably that the two spend a heck of a lot of time together, maybe attached at the hip when she doesn't have other committments. Just a guess, not expecting you to agree here...

 

It may look happy and fun (and it probably is, my H and I were together 24/7, it was a blast) BUT the odds of it pulling through for the long haul are markedly low.

 

At my age and with what I have seen in relationships thus far, starting a relationship by having sex (whether or not you have wanted to start a relationship with that person) is a path to disaster.

 

Sex is a biological function that attracts you to the other person hormonally whether or not it is "normal behaviour" for you or you "liked them or not." There is no doubt in my mind that even if sex didn't change things for you, it did for this guy compared to how he would act with you otherwise.

 

If he is talking about the future etc that early on, I would suspect that he is a minimum investment guy as well. If a guy started talking future with me on day 2 that would present a major red flag to me, he wouldn't know me well enough to start talking like that. He might be a nice guy, but he doesn't sound like a healthy guy either. Healthy relationships are where people get to know each other slowly and don't get too attached before learning about each other. You make small investments and then see if they are returned. You see if the other person is consistent. If they aren't consistent, you move on, somewhat quickly too. It isn't your job to help them be a better person, you are their date, not their therapist.

 

Everyone has a list of what they want in a mate (some are ridiculous but that isn't the point). Included in that list should be someone whose actions match their words. Case in point guy #2 did a talk about the future on day 2, now on day 12, he has already pulled back and you know damn well he can't deliver. Of course it doesn't make sense for him to say that on day 2, for all he knows you could be an axe murderer. The point is healthy guy won't say that stuff until he knows 99% he can deliver. Then he would deliver, his actions would match his words.

 

So say someone likes you and they are promising the Sun, Moon and Stars by day two. I would wonder:

 

A) why? why such a great gift on day 2? Does this guy not have much else going on that me having sex with him was worth the Sun, Moon and Stars? Granted I am great in bed, but then wouldn't that mean he just likes the sex? This would not be a sign of any intimacy or connection. It would be a sign that he likes sex, and we had a good time together.

 

B) Can he even deliver the Sun, Moon and Stars? Last time I checked FedEx doesn't have a shipping policy on them, maybe this guy just likes to promise the SMS just to get me to like him, or get you hooked. Or maybe he really wants to give me the SMS but in reality has overestimated himself, or just can't.

 

If a guy is chasing you in a dead heat and not giving you much space, AND if you just show up every time he comes calling because you put off your other committments or because you don't even have any other committments. You are sending him the message that you require very little to have a relationship with.

 

If you require very little investment most guys are going to realize that you cannot give a great return. And a lot of guys don't get attached right away, girls tend to. So you get the feelings and the effort wasted while they walk away thinking "that was fun....for awhile."

 

Backing off is probably actually healthy for this guy, you need to back off too and see where his cards go. He isn't going to be able to make any rational decisions if you are crowding him (I am not saying that you are). If you aren't as into him, maybe you don't want to go there either.

 

With the next guy, whether he looks like a good time guy or not, hold off on the sex. Early sex forces intimacy before either one of you knows each other, it creates a sense of false intimacy and false security.

thanks have you thought of being a therapist?

yes my friend is joined at the hip with this guy when not having her daughter or working.

yes i should of seen the full on signs from him as a red flag, i didnt push though he asked me out a few times and i said 'no'.

do you think i should back of now and see what happens?

or will i never hear from him again?

[ozziegal8]

thanks have you thought of being a therapist?

yes my friend is joined at the hip with this guy when not having her daughter or working.

yes i should of seen the full on signs from him as a red flag, i didnt push though he asked me out a few times and i said 'no'.

do you think i should back of now and see what happens?

or will i never hear from him again?

 

ok its now sunday and ive been good not contacting him since my text on tuesday. asking him how his interview went.

and didnt reply.

my best mate is his friend and he doesnt know anything either.

i have since found out though this guy is 43 with not a cent to his name and never has.

he has been back from living o/s for a year and since then has only done bit and pieces of casual labouring.

why wouldnt you get a proper job at that age?

apparently he has this 'proper' job starting at end of january.

i still cant work out why he has just disappeared, it will make it harder on him as we both know my mate 'jason' and will do doubt run into each other in the future.

[dreamingoftigers]

thanks have you thought of being a therapist?

yes my friend is joined at the hip with this guy when not having her daughter or working.

yes i should of seen the full on signs from him as a red flag, i didnt push though he asked me out a few times and i said 'no'.

do you think i should back of now and see what happens?

or will i never hear from him again?

 

ok its now sunday and ive been good not contacting him since my text on tuesday. asking him how his interview went.

and didnt reply.

my best mate is his friend and he doesnt know anything either.

i have since found out though this guy is 43 with not a cent to his name and never has.

he has been back from living o/s for a year and since then has only done bit and pieces of casual labouring.

why wouldnt you get a proper job at that age?

apparently he has this 'proper' job starting at end of january.

i still cant work out why he has just disappeared, it will make it harder on him as we both know my mate 'jason' and will do doubt run into each other in the future.

 

Sorry, just trying to keep up with posts across the weekend (mom's bday and still having trouble sleeping). To answer your Qs:

 

1. I thought about becoming one but at this point the answer would probably be no. I have a lot of family of origin (and marital) issues that I would like to make sure I have properly accepted and integrated into my life. I also would be very concerned about dealing with people that would hit onto my co-dependency latch. I have a hard time not cleaning up messes that aren't mine; (ironically at this point in my life I also run a cleaning service ). I would worry about my own boundaries getting a little blurred and that would serve no one. Loveshack provides a nice little window for me to receive support and encouragement for my trouble areas and also get check-ups for feedback to see if there is something that I haven't thought of. In a lot of cases there are folks on here that are facing the same or similar issues in their lives that I made peace with a long time ago. It is nice to try to give back a little.

 

2. What you should do is entirely up to you. At the end of the day, you live with the consequences. It is hard at your age to see those consequences, it a guy is witty, kind and into you, it can be very hard to resist and often you can't see why you might want to. (Oh jeez don't take that the wrong way, I used to hate that from older women, but it is like most things you start to see a pattern as you get older). You simply may not be able to see those consequences. The trouble with being where you are in life, is with relationships you may not have had enough experience or a good model to draw from. (Can I guess that you are a child of divorce OR your Mom is often waiting for your Dad to take the lead in many things she could do herself?) I don't mean to offend, just usually we follow at least some of our parent's example. I know I did. I was even trying not to at points, but it is hard to know what you are looking for when you have no basic idea where to start and how to recognize a "red flag."

 

My personal guess is that you won't hear from him. That was my guess before I read your update, he did some heavy pursuing and you kinda caved and then he got scared off. (Both partners not healthy).

 

The two things I bolded are pretty important. First of all, sleeping with (or dating more then once or twice) a guy before you know his age tells me that you aren't getting enough information about who guys are before they can get close to you in any way. The basics are pretty much: 1. Where are you from? Kids? Status? Job or school or volunteering or searching for a job? (Being unemployed isn't a big deal as long as he isn't chronically unemployed, or unemployed frequently. It isn't about money actually, it is about self-respect or stability. If you or a potential partner have a frequently hard time finding and keeping a job without decent cause, it reflects their character 90% of the time.) Find out at least 3-5 things the guy likes outside of the bedroom and his age. At least a little about his family too, that says a lot about where he came from and what his life story has a good chance of looking like.

 

You want to find someone that has a clue what their next step would be. You want someone that has a goal in mind. If you don't have a goal in mind for what you want to see out of life and out of any commitments you have, try aiming for one. Even if it is small. So many people (myself included somewhat, a lot of that was ADD though). let the waves of life decide where they go and they end up tossed around looking for something to cling to and often find each other. Then you both get tossed around together. You want to have some navigating skills for those tough currents and you want to be with someone that is a navigator as well.

 

I know I will probably hear it on here, but it really is best to try to find someone whose baggage matches yours pretty closely, but has overcome some of their issues and is a goal-setter that also has some empathy for others. You want to be someone centered and find someone centered.

 

I know that at 19, I felt very centered and ready to take on just about anything. I could work circles around most of my peers. I would work 2-3 jobs and go to school. The problem was I was caught in a cycle of spending foolishly, never relaxing, eating on the run and leading myself towards risking a major breakdown. I think I had something to prove to myself but it came out to be a foolish endeavour. I didn't find what I was looking for and I did not pick a direction. Even if you go the wrong direction at the very least you eliminate an option instead of sitting in front of 3 open doors doing nothing until they all shut.

 

Many folks can't see it: but life has an abundance of opportunity and really there are at least 3 billion guys out there (granted some are kids still) and chances are if you think that you aren't with the best you can get, it would be best to close that door and move onto the next. In your case I would not worry about being that forever single girl (I was scared of that). You have gotten involved with the types of guys most sensible women wouldn't touch with a barge pole, so odds are if you get what you consider to be super-picky, you will end up with the average nice guy. That as you will probably come to realize as you get older, is worth its weight in gold.

 

When I was younger I was also concerned that when I heard a list of things to consider before getting married that it sounded so long and picky that I thought if I waited to get through that list, I would never be able to be married. In truth, I have been largely (200+) overweight my entire adult life and have not been single for more then about six week according to my recollection (aside from one relationship that seperated for about 5-6 months and I was not ready to jump into another one, it ended up getting back together and then crumbled about a year later). If you become someone healthy and wait for someone healthy, you will have a great relationship instead of going through all of the crap you see on these boards. The fact that there have been these two "winners" around tells me that you might want to get right on becoming healthier and setting boundaries.

 

I had a very similar experience when I worked at McDonald's overnight at the age of 18. This Russian guy told me he was 32, he had a degree from Russia that he was upgrading to work in Oil & Gas here in Alberta. He was fun and we used to laugh a lot. Anyways I didn't sleep with him and thank goodness because shortly before I left I noticed a form on the manager's desk requesting SINs (work cards) from a list of employees and it listed their birthdates. I am a snoop and I saw his name on there. It turned out that he was a year younger then my Dad. I just believed him because I didn't think a guy would lie about something like that. I thought maybe he went bald early, he was in very good shape so that wouldn't tip me off. I just didn't have the skills to see what he was, I could spot men like him a mile away now. I post you epic long posts in the hope that you might hear 10% of it and improve your odds from having some of the other painful experiences I did and having to work on all of the self-esteem and boundary issues later (and harder) instead of sooner and before you start to settle down.

 

Boundaries: Where You and I Begin is a great book for the basics. Don't laugh, my neighbour married with 2 kids has had to read it and she didn't follow it. *facepalm* Recommended by a great therapist.

 

The Flipside is also great for just encouraging optimism, it gets pretty deep with great examples, I wouldn't have a marriage today if I didn't adopt them.

 

As for why he doesn't have/have had a proper job at the age of 43? The short answer to this is: he didn't want one OR he wasn't hirable OR he didn't know how to get one. All things that should be dealt with by the age of 43. At least you see it as a flag now. That's a good start. It took me a long time to realize "the whys" don't really matter all that much. What really matters is if someone has or develops the skills to get around the obstacles in life that tell them they can't or shouldn't or why bother.

 

A 43 year old dude has no business in a dating capacity with someone under 20. One day you will be 43 and look back on dating a teen and really see how screwed up that is. I know some will say "it's only a number, or that is just a label." Labels and numbers can be very useful. (Have you ever tried cooking without either? You wouldn't even know what you were making!). They signify things and stages that your potential partner would have likely experienced. Odds are if they are divorced, they have been through regret and storminess. If they have children, that is a completely life-altering experience that truly I don't think can be understood unti you become a parent. If they are a player then they most likely have a completely different kind of baggage.

 

None of those fit you. None of that luggage matches your set and it will be an impossible challenge to make it fit together until you gain far more life experience on how to do so, and by watching others fail at it. I honestly wouldn't try fitting baggage together that doesn't match before at least age 30, and I am 28. My husband and I don't have matching baggage and at this point I still have my marriage but there is nothing quite like experiencing the 2 years of 99% misery and trying to drag myself through it. It has given me a lot of perspective, but I think innocence would have been far more pleasant. Plus day to day feeling 0 security and having a child in the middle of that.....it sucks.

 

ConflictedGuy and I are both your brand of co-dependent hun, we are the future LOL Run while you still can (to a healthier place). It has less to do with who you are inside as what you will welcome and take in a relationship. If you are willing to let someone take advantage of you, the guys who will sniff you out are the ones who will take advantage of you. Cruel laws of nature.

 

Ozziegal, I really hope that at the very least you don't invest too much upfront and wait to see what the next guy is like before anything happens between the two of you.

 

Keep us posted though.

[ozziegal8]

thanks so much for you time and help.

but i am mid 30's so not young and nieve well maybe.

ive had some shocking relationships, mental and physical, i even had a bi sexual boyfriend who slept with another man straight after i had an abortion to this man. needless to say i left him.

i have not long left a 3 year relationship, mentally abusive where i moved 2 states away from my friends and family. one day i came home and he had gone, disappeared (we were arguing lots).

but as you can guess, he rings me now and misses me.

 

i also did know how old this guy was from the start that's why i thought he could be normal!!!mature.

he did say he was an x-player but not like that anymore and made comments about my friend who is a player about how he couldnt do that anymore.

i was not aware though of how unfinancial he was.

he has been engaged twice they both broke it off once cos he was partying too much and the other she dumped him. he never heard from her again.

he was also adopted and does not speak to his adoptive parents as he say's they dont think like him, quite sad really as they brought him up.

this did ring a few bells to me as most guys ive been out with have family issue's.

so when you say i caved in? how did this turn him off?

my friend say's his flatmate has said nothing about what happened with 'me'?

[dreamingoftigers]

thanks so much for you time and help.

but i am mid 30's so not young and nieve well maybe.

ive had some shocking relationships, mental and physical, i even had a bi sexual boyfriend who slept with another man straight after i had an abortion to this man. needless to say i left him.

i have not long left a 3 year relationship, mentally abusive where i moved 2 states away from my friends and family. one day i came home and he had gone, disappeared (we were arguing lots).

but as you can guess, he rings me now and misses me.

 

i also did know how old this guy was from the start that's why i thought he could be normal!!!mature.

he did say he was an x-player but not like that anymore and made comments about my friend who is a player about how he couldnt do that anymore.

i was not aware though of how unfinancial he was.

he has been engaged twice they both broke it off once cos he was partying too much and the other she dumped him. he never heard from her again.

he was also adopted and does not speak to his adoptive parents as he say's they dont think like him, quite sad really as they brought him up.

this did ring a few bells to me as most guys ive been out with have family issue's.

so when you say i caved in? how did this turn him off?

my friend say's his flatmate has said nothing about what happened with 'me'?

 

OMG I am an idiot, I thought I read somewhere that you were 19! I thought oh no, a forty-three year old guy was all getting after her, RUN RUN!

 

I am sorry, I was trying to wave a thousand warning flags thinking that you were new to the scene, trying to get you away from the predator set!

 

Well, honestly, it looks like you made it to the future then! Still, better boundaries make life a heck of a lot easier.

 

His flatmate said it was nothing to do with you? Might be totally true, but you ended up mildly on the pursuing end of Mr. Unstable either way, that sucks. I would personally say that any man worth his salt would let you know what is going on if it wasn't about you.

 

Most of these unstable guys want that relationship BUT they know that they can't really be in it for whatever reason so they try to project being fantasy guy however they can, hoping you won't find out. Probably why he talked future on day 2. That is just weird for a guy to do, and not stable. By going along with some of that, they get freaked because they know that they can't do it.