wanting on an open marriage,wife isn't sure

[Donutman]

Hey everyone,

this is my first post,I wasn't sure where else to go...I saw a lot of posts here and know that many here have an open mind,where I live if you even whisper the word 'swinger' you had better be talking about a playground...

 

Let me start by saying I've been in a loving committed marriage for 19 years,my wife and I are the rarest of rare "true best friends" we love each other more now than we have ever before...we get along great,laugh together,cry together,have a wonderful daughter,in other words it's perfection with one small exception...our sex life is miserable...we have sex maybe 5 times a year...this has been going on for about 3 years and yes,it is 100 percent my fault.

My wife is very patient with me and we have talked many times about therapy but we can't afford it at the time...I'd be very willing to go but honestly I know what the problem is and there is just no way to talk to her about it without it hurting her,I tried and she ended up in tears and I swore to never bring it up again.

 

I have a huge sexual appetite and am extremely bored being with the same sole person for 21 years. Before the hate mail starts rolling in,I don't cheat and never would cheat. I will live the rest of my life celibate before I would cheat on her. But the truth is,I am extremely bored and it is not her fault. In my opinion no matter how sexy a person is,there comes a point when you've had sex with the same person for the 1,000th time and it loses it's spice.

 

Here is the interesting part of the story,my wife is bisexual (which was the greatest thing she could have EVER told me,it made me love her even a thousand times more than I did before) she loves being with women as much as being with men,which for me is PERFECT,as I'm someone who enjoys watching or hearing about her sexual encounters as much as I enjoy participating. We even made my wildest dream come true about 10 years ago and had a threesome,it was the single greatest experience of my life and brought me and my wife closer than we have ever been,sexually and emotionally...our sex lives were incredible. She was with the girl 3 times,twice without me and once with me...for a time we joined a swingers web site and she even had plans to hook up with another man and woman,which I fully supported...

here's where everything changed...after our threesome,she saw the girl one more time,had a great time but the girl was in a bad relationship and the man she was living with refused to let her see my wife ever again. My wife decided on her own that the swinging lifestyle wasn't for her and of course it couldn't be for me either. So after about 2 years of talking,fantasizing and placing ads,we went from the best sexual couple I knew to her wanting to be 100 percent vanilla. I could not adjust. I went from having everything I ever wanted to having the same person night after night with no hope of it ever going back to the way it was. She says she just doesn't know if it's right to be with other people when you're married (even with your husbands total support,practically BEGGING) and she feels if I loved her enough I'd be sexually happy to be with just her forever and grow old. We are only in our late 30s (I turned 40 in sept) I'm not ready to accept that 40 is too old and to want to live as seniors.

 

It is really hurting our marriage,I would never cheat on her but whenever she tries to initiate sex I will go along with it but I am not very enthusiastic and she takes that very personally. I love her more than ever,I just want the spice back. I want to have an active sex life with multiple partners BUT I want to include her in all of it. I want her to be sexual with other women and men,even if I can't be I would STILL be happy if she was. Just to experience the thrill again. I feel like we're just waiting around to die.

 

My question is this,our marriage is 100 percent happy in every area but the bedroom. Do I stay and keep my mouth shut and try my best to be happy in a monogamous relationship even though it is against everything I believe in,or do I try to bring up being in an open marriage (I must be very careful so as to not hurt her,she feels if I want her to be with anyone else or I want to be with someone else that I must not love her enough and that is definitely not the case) Being in an open marriage and being with my wife 3 weekends out of 4 would be absolute paradise for me and I believe she would grow to love it too. She is bisexual and had a HUGE sexual appetite as a teenager,she had many many lovers and I ever only had her and the other girl from the threesome.

 

I refuse to cheat on her,I would never divorce her,and yet we're both miserable...

please help with some advice.

I would especially like to her from couples who are in open marriages (both the pros and cons) to give me some hope that it can exist and that I'm not trying to live in some crazy dream world. This is the life I've always wanted and I truly hope someday she could grow to love it or we could maybe compromise in some way. Worst case scenario I just live the rest of my life missing out on what I want,I love her and would rather give up my fantasies than lose my best friend and soul mate

 

thank you for reading,

I look forward to hearing from you all

 

Merry Christmas

and God bless you,

Donutman:)

[wheream_i]

I understood why you're miserable with sex but why is she miserable sexually? Because you're bored with it and don't show any enthusiasm?

[NoLongerSad]

How does this make it "fake"?

 

Do you understand that some people get married in their late teens/early 20's?

 

39 minus 19 = 20.

 

So it means he was around 20 when they got married.

[Lauriebell82]

Prior to marriage, did your wife agree that your marriage would be open and she would be having sex with other partners, male and female? If not, then she has the right to only want to have sex with her husband and have the same faithfullness returned to her. If she isn't into the swinger lifestyle anymore and you are, then you both need to have a talk about what your future holds.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

The thing with having an open marriage is that both parties involved must be 100% committed to making it work. I understand the need to spice things up. I think one of the biggest reasons my sex life is still so great is because we have other people to help us grow physically and emotionally. I also know that if she isn't on board with it now then even if she does agree to it there will be all of these doubts in the back of her mind. Please remember that this life isn't for everyone and can end badly. Please be careful and if you need anything just ask.

[StrangeCanine]

Don't try it!!! Your going to ruin what you already have. If SHE doesn't want it then your screwed.

[Donutman]

Hi everyone,

thank you all so much for taking the time to write and respond to my question...

 

I was 21 years old when I got married and my wife was 18 but we had dated exclusively for 3 years before we were married so we most definitely didn't rush into things

 

the reason why she is so unhappy sexually is that we don't have sex very often...maybe 1 or 2 times a month if that...and that is mostly my fault...it isn't because I'm trying to be mean or that I don't love her,it's mostly because of my work schedule and I'm so darn exhausted and plus I'm extremely depressed about money problems,I know...that is not an excuse,but I'm being honest...when we were in the swinging lifestyle and especially when she had a girlfriend I had MUCH more energy and really juggled my schedule around to drop anything whenever opportunities arrived...yes,I could do that now and I do sometimes but honestly I'm just as happy spending time watching tv and cuddling with her,you see I'm not avoiding her or spending time with friends or anything like that,I spend all my time either at work or home with her and I love her dearly,more than ever but I just am not interested sexually unless we can spice it up with variety.

 

I respect that she has a right to change her mind for whatever reason (she has two reasons she no longer wants to be in the swinging lifestyle...A) she doesn't feel young and attractive anymore and B) she suddenly feels that its wrong from a religious standpoint

 

I try to always make her feel beautiful because I believe she is beautiful but unless I am acting like a horny teenager for her she doesn't feel beautiful or wanted ...I tried to explain that when we were in the lifestyle many guys and girls wanted her badly and I still do too but having variety makes everything better,it helps me see her in a whole new sexual life and it really did make me feel closer to her

 

unfortunately I don't think she'll change her mind...

so I think I know what I'm going to do...I'm just going to keep things as they are,pretend that I'm happy (because in every other way besides sexually I am happy) and just live the rest of my life unfulfilled and try my best to keep her happy...because the alternative of going after the kind of life I want is NOT worth the risk of losing my best friend and soul mate

 

thank you all so much for your kind words

 

have a great day and God bless,

Donutman

[Toodamnpragmatic]

then decided to read the OP for the third time and wondered if I read everything right the first two times.....

 

 

Now that I have I have to ask why you are such a fool??? So you met her young and have had a happy marriage. For a very very short time she had a relationship with 1 woman that resulted in 3 encounters, with one including you. You joined a Swingers club, which from what I read did not include any actual meetings, but maybe pictures and you were turned on by others finding her hot..... When she decided this was not for her and she did not follow through, your libido was turned off and now sex with her does not interest you....

 

D0 I have this right?

 

You are an ass.... Why not just divorce and find some sex if you have so little interest in an intimate relationship with your wife, because you are such a jerk and just want to fantasize about a swinging lifestyle?

 

You really need to look inward and figure out why you feel this way and even though you are attracted to your wife, do not want to explore one on one fantasies.....

 

Really why not use your imagination and pretend she is cheating on you or with another woman and play it into your lovemaking.

 

I am perplexed that you have shut down for the simple reason she does not want to sleep with other people.

[Distant78]

If you're so exhausted from work, how is getting permission from your wife to screw someone else going to help the bad sex life you have between you and your wife?

 

^^^

 

This is why open marriages rarely work. One party thinks sticking their member inside another whole would solve all of the problems, when it's doing the exact opposite.

[Kendrick]

"I refuse to cheat on her, or divorce her, but yet we are both miserable."

 

If you refuse to cheat (which is a good thing) and you don't want a divorce but you're both miserable, are you saying your only option left is a open marriage? You're miserable becasue she wont agree to it? She is miserable because you want to and she doesn't? How about seeking MC for your damaged marriage?

 

If this is not a fixable situation, and it seems to me you only think it might be if she agrees to something you want to do, why not divorce her? then you are free to do whatever and not be miserable and she is free to find someone who wants the same as she does.

[Enema]

Is there anything she could do to make your 1 on 1 sex life better?

 

Lose weight, change her style, do more kinky things?

 

Worst case scenario, if your marriage is great in all other respects I'd consider hiring an escort secretly once in a while to let it out.

 

As for her needs, can you meet them without having sex with her? Get her off with toys, your hands/mouth etc?

[Allisha]

then decided to read the OP for the third time and wondered if I read everything right the first two times.....

 

 

Now that I have I have to ask why you are such a fool??? So you met her young and have had a happy marriage. For a very very short time she had a relationship with 1 woman that resulted in 3 encounters, with one including you. You joined a Swingers club, which from what I read did not include any actual meetings, but maybe pictures and you were turned on by others finding her hot..... When she decided this was not for her and she did not follow through, your libido was turned off and now sex with her does not interest you....

 

D0 I have this right?

 

You are an ass.... Why not just divorce and find some sex if you have so little interest in an intimate relationship with your wife, because you are such a jerk and just want to fantasize about a swinging lifestyle?

 

You really need to look inward and figure out why you feel this way and even though you are attracted to your wife, do not want to explore one on one fantasies.....

 

Really why not use your imagination and pretend she is cheating on you or with another woman and play it into your lovemaking.

 

I am perplexed that you have shut down for the simple reason she does not want to sleep with other people.

 

This.

 

If you're so exhausted from work, how is getting permission from your wife to screw someone else going to help the bad sex life you have between you and your wife?

 

& this.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Is there anything she could do to make your 1 on 1 sex life better?

 

Lose weight, change her style, do more kinky things?

 

Really? I think it's on the OP to do all kinds of things to rekindle his sex life with his wife. It offends me that the OP is sexually rejecting his wife because she does not want to open up their sexual life to other people; I believe it's his responsibility as a partner to step up and find out how to have a healthy sex life with his wife within the boundaries in their relationship.

 

Maybe HE needs to lose weight or change his style ... or do more kinky things (like have sex with his wife.)

 

Worst case scenario, if your marriage is great in all other respects I'd consider hiring an escort secretly once in a while to let it out.

 

Oh, yeah, that is the way to fix a broken marriage.

 

Honestly, OP, if you can't be sexually engaged with your wife without "swinging," then why don't you swing on out and give her a chance to be happily fulfilled in a monogamous relationship. That seems to be what she needs.

[Donutman]

wow...

I get the message loud and clear...I guessed that I'd get a few hate messages from people not understanding someone's desire for variety while including their partner,because I understand it is not something that everyone would want...but I never expected such a one sided flood of responses...

I was hoping to hear from a few people also who were actively in an open relationship (because there's enough books,websites and groups that I know there are people out there like that) so that I could get all types of opinions and it would help me decide how best to proceed,

however it is clear that I am "an ass" and because I dared to ask for opinions on my situation I am a horrible person.

 

I have decided to move forward with my life as is...in other words since we are both extremely happy in every other aspect of our lives it would be a tragedy and quite honestly stupid to even for a second consider divorce when the problem is so easily solved...I would never ask her to do something she felt was wrong,and I would never cheat (so hiring an escort is out of the question) so we will continue on the monogamy path

 

perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post...we do still have sex,and she is quite happy when we do,it just isn't as often as she would like but I will do my best to increase that

That way everyone's happy.

I will forget the foolish notion of involving others in our bedroom to add variety. She doesn't want it,I was silly to consider it,and it's not going to happen.

 

For the record,neither one of us needs to lose weight...I've always been attracted to my wife and have never stated otherwise. I just believe that even the two most beautiful perfect people in the world if they are together enough will crave something new. I am guessing by the responses I'm alone in feeling that way. Everyone who responded to my post must be in a happy long term monogamous relationship in which they never get bored and never cheat.

We also have tried just about everything kinky under the sun in the bedroom,from trying s&m (which isn't for either of us but we tried it) to watching porn together (which was just awkward for both of us) to toys etc...we're open minded and have tried everything under the sun that two people can do together. Like I said,I love her,she loves me and we're compatible in the bedroom I was just foolish and wanted to add variety for both her and me but she didn't feel it was right and I respect that. I just wanted to talk to others who were in a relationship like I was curious about,just to talk to them about the pros and cons.

 

Finally...

please remember,although I am "an ass" and a horrible person that she should divorce to find someone who wants a monogamous relationship,that it was not only me who wanted to pursue the swinging lifestyle.

I absolutely encouraged it and was en-thrilled by it,but she actually brought it up first. She had two girl friends while we were married and during both of those relationships our marriage had never been happier...she was happy I was happy and her girlfriends were happy.

She also was extremely happy about spending the night at another couple's house with the plans to sexually be with both of them (again,i couldn't have been happier and was very disappointed when those plans fell through because the girl in that couple changed her mind).

My wife loved having phone sex with other men and women (which I completely supported and was thrilled to encourage) and she had made great plans to be with a man she worked with (the only thing that stopped that from happening was because his wife felt uneasy about them working together and I admit,I felt a little uneasy about that too)

 

the point I'm trying to make,is she loved it as much as I did...and then all of a sudden she decides it's religiously wrong...I respect her and will go along with her decision but can't anyone understand even a little how that would be disappointing to a guy? We were both very happy for 2 years or longer,was having the life I always dreamed of and then POOF it's all changed and I had no say in it.

 

Before I get more angry replies...all I'm asking is try and see it from my perspective.

I am not going to pursue this any further...my marriage is great and doesn't need counseling,and I'll be happy with a monogamous marriage. A part of me will miss what we used to have but does that make me a horrible person?

 

Thanks again everyone for your replies

take care,

Donutman:)

[aerogurl87]

Don't play the victim here, you're being selfish. Yes open marriages can work but before you add someone else to the mix you need to have a happy, fulfilling primary relationship with your wife. You won't sex her because she won't sleep around, well that's a great way to make her confidence rise. Bravo! The problem isn't your wife, the problem isn't her non-interest in sleeping with others, the problem is you and your selfishness. You're not prioritizing your wife here, you're prioritizing yourself and you're selfish desire to just make yourself happy. Maybe she would be willing to be in an open relationship if she felt wanted sexually by her husband first, just a thought.

[sally4sara]

Things to consider:

 

When people become depressed and feel worn out, one of the first things they are advised to do is increase their exercise and activity levels.

 

When you and your wife were swingers, you enjoyed your sex life more and thought about her in a sexual context more. Then she wanted to stop. could your lack of interest be coming from a place of resentment?

You subconsciously acted out by dropping sexual associations down to a trickle - she reacts by becoming even more stanch in her disinterest of swinging because this makes her feel less attractive.

Can you see how the message you sent might have come across?

"If I can't have others then I don't even want you" is how you come across when you share that you stopped wanting sex down to 1 - 2xs a month. She probably wonders if you ever wanted sex with her to begin with! And that would go a long way to making her feel less attractive and even less interested in swinging. She doesn't want even more people to end up not wanting to have sex with her. If her spouse feels that way while claiming to love her - what else would she expect out of people who don't love her?

 

So my advise is to take up some sort of tantric yoga activity together. Increase your activity level. get the blood pumping again and maybe you'll find that spark rekindled - she will feel more attractive to you and maybe then the two of you will have better/more sex. Maybe it will lead back to swinging but I'd ignore that part because it seems clear that she wasn't getting what you did from it or she would have not wanted to stop.

 

You've got a vicious cycle concerning intimacy going on. It might be wise, after you try to get the spark back to not start it up again. You had fun, but she did not and her self esteem has taken a nose dive over it. How great could it have been then?

[Mme. Chaucer]

OP, there are quite a few people on LS who are in open relationships, polyamorous, or however you want to label it. Yes, there are the moralists who criticize them, but the main thing is that both members of the couple want that lifestyle in order for it to work.

 

Your post really did give the message that you were not interested in your wife sexually if she is not interested in opening up your sex life to other people.

 

That's hurtful.

 

Plenty of people experience the feeling of monotony from being with the same sexual partner exclusively for years on end, but if that's what they signed up for by embarking upon a monogamous relationship, it's on them to find a way to make it work.

 

I don't believe that your marriage can be as perfect as you claim it is with this level of sexual rejection going on. Sex problems ALWAYS infiltrate other aspects of marriage, I believe.

 

If you can get right with your wife sexually, who knows. Maybe her adventurous desires from the past might return. Maybe they will not, and it will be part of your work to maintain a successful love with your wife to find a way of having monogamy be exciting. There is nothing wrong with her knowing how much you enjoyed those experiences, but as it now stands, it sounds as if your shared past is only hurting your present relationship - like it's something used against her now.

[Atlantico]

Donutman: I think you are a bad person and worst husband. What you are doing your wife is regrettable. I wish she wants out of that marriage and gets somebody that respects her.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

for a selfish jerk..... So I did read it right and there never was any "real" swinging, outside some phone sex and aborted liaisons..... But that was enough to trigger an exciting sex life. Frankly sounds like you've had a great sex life and sorry no pity party from me.

 

You have to make a decision to enjoy a monogamous sex life. If not for you, find someone who shares your interest and nothing wrong with that.

 

At this point you really seem to have more a "cuckold" fantasy, as you want to see her have sex with others and not you and then hearing about it.

 

There is no mention of you sleeping around (outside a threesome), but the excitement is that your wife is desirable, then how about dressing her up, going to a bar and watching guys try to pick her up, with you showing up and finally leaving with her.

 

I am lost as to what your issue is? Maybe if while having sex, she tells you how desirable another man would be, is what you need?

 

Frankly as said there has been a # of "Open Relationship" posts of late and all seem to want something from these relationships the majority here have trouble grasping.

 

Sorry, but you are confusing me and others I imagine with your post and your replies.

 

And yes you are incredibly selfish.....

[gisellefromhell]

Don't play the victim here, you're being selfish. Yes open marriages can work but before you add someone else to the mix you need to have a happy, fulfilling primary relationship with your wife. You won't sex her because she won't sleep around, well that's a great way to make her confidence rise. Bravo! The problem isn't your wife, the problem isn't her non-interest in sleeping with others, the problem is you and your selfishness. You're not prioritizing your wife here, you're prioritizing yourself and you're selfish desire to just make yourself happy. Maybe she would be willing to be in an open relationship if she felt wanted sexually by her husband first, just a thought.

 

I completely agree with this. Don't think of this as hate towards your desires, please consider these points! If you take a step back, and really take these points in, it makes complete sense. I will not judge you for how you feel about your sex life. You have the right to feel the way you do. But you posted on this site because you wanted some input.

 

I'm not in an open relationship, but I can understand how it would be successful. If right now, your marriage seems like it's lacking something vital, then you shouldn't want an open marriage for yourself. You need to fix whatever it is between just you and your wife. Don't even consider an open marriage at this point, because if you're not happy even in just one aspect with just you and your wife, I promise you, extra people in the bedroom will not fix that problem. You and her both need to be 100% for each other. Other people can't make you 100%.

[Donutman]

I humbly disagree...I don't believe I'm being completely selfish...unless being honest about something you want has suddenly become selfish.

 

Let me be perfectly clear...I never insisted she do as I asked,I never pushed,I never threatened to leave or cheat...I simply asked why she stopped being interested in a swinging relationship,I'm not sure how that is selfish.

 

Had I done as more than half of the married people in this country do and had an affair than I agree that would be selfish. I could have done that and no one ever would have known...but I didn't and wouldn't because I love and respect my wife and anything I do I only do with her involvement and consent. Does that sound like a selfish person?

 

Let me put it like this...if I was interested in trying role playing and asked her and she wasn't interested and I let the whole thing drop,would that be considered selfish too?

It's called being honest and opening the doors of communication.

 

She said no,it was dropped.

I was simply writing here to hear from others who were in similar situations.

 

In conclusion,keep in mind also that at one point in time she was very interested in this lifestyle,so it was not out of the question to ask why she changed her mind

 

I've been reading a lot of posts and have realized a trend...I hear a lot of people with the mindset 'once you are married you have sex with no one but your spouse otherwise it's not a sacred marriage or it's no marriage at all and anyone who disagrees is wrong'

and a whole bunch of 'if my spouse ever suggested variety I'd call a lawyer right away'

so do you for one minute believe your spouse has never craved variety? If you made it clear that if he/she ever brought up an open marriage you would divorce them do you think they would ever risk talking with you about it,or would they take the easy route and just cheat...

no wonder divorce rates are so high

 

I would never insult someone for having beliefs different from mine,we're all entitled to our opinions and our feelings. I respect yours and although you may disagree with mine please still respect the fact I have a right to a different opinion

 

have a great day

and God bless,

The Donutman

[xxoo]

Maybe she would be willing to be in an open relationship if she felt wanted sexually by her husband first, just a thought.

 

Yep.

 

Donut, you seem to accept it as normal that you have so little sexual desire for your wife--who you love and claim to find very attractive--simply because you've been together for a bunch of years. While some decrease is lust may be normal, I don't think it is normal AT ALL for a young man with a high libido to prefer sex 1-2x a month over regular sex with their mono partner. Something is off, and the problem seems to lie with you. Have you self-examined to understand why you seem to need "new" in order to have an active, fulfilling sex life? Because if you are determined to remain in the mono relationship, you might as well do the self work necessary to make it a good one--for you AND for your wife (who likely feels horribly rejected )

[Donutman]

I think you are all right...I realize how wrong I was

 

I will focus on making things even better in my relationship and that includes more romantic time and I won't even consider bringing anyone else into it ever again,and I won't bring up the past experiences we've had either

 

thank you everyone for helping to open my eyes to how bad a husband I was

 

before I log off of this topic for good...I did want to add one final time,that my wife and I are very happy,we hardly ever argue over anything,and the 1 or 2 times a month we have sex is very good for both of us,I'm going to put in the effort to increase that even more but I do believe I read somewhere that statistically speaking a guy who's 40 and a woman in her late 30s who have been married for over 18 years,I believe the average might be somewhere around 3 or 4 times a month...so was 1 or 2 that far off? really?

 

I apologize for my previous posts,I didn't mean to sound like such a selfish uncaring person

 

I will always try to better myself

 

take care,

Donutman

[xxoo]

I do believe I read somewhere that statistically speaking a guy who's 40 and a woman in her late 30s who have been married for over 18 years,I believe the average might be somewhere around 3 or 4 times a month...

 

It varies by couple, of course, and young kids can add a huge obstacle....but 3-4x a month is lower than any average I've seen. Usually I see 1-2x a week as an average for established couples. 5x a year (as you said in your original post) officially qualifies as a "sexless marriage" (anything less than 10x a year).

[xxoo]

More to the point...yes, there is a huge difference btwn 1-2x a month (12-24x a year) and 3-4x a month (36-48x a year).