wheream_i Posted December 24, 2010 Posted December 24, 2010 Guys get a bad rep and get called a perv or coming on too strong for this very same thing.
NoLongerSad Posted December 24, 2010 Posted December 24, 2010 I really don't understand what the interest is with having sex with someone on the second or third date.... heck, even forth or fifth. OceanGirl is in her 30's. Men in a similar age range want to have sex. If you're not too interested in sex, that's cool, but most men in their 30's are. If not, why waste time going out with strange women they don't know? If they just wanted platonic friendship, they would go out with the friends they already have. Don't you want to see if the person is serious about YOU and you're interested in THEM; their PERSONALITIES and good QUALITIES before you give yourself sexually to them? This is a rather archaic formulation. Presumably a woman who decides to have sex is not "giving herself" to the guy any more than he is giving himself to her. I guess maybe my age (30's) dictates how I feel about this. I'm looking for relationships and not one night stands. I find one night stands to be a little sick IMO. I've done it but it's never been worth it and never yielded a guarantee to a long term relationship. You can get dumped the next morning. Not having one night stands doesn't guarantee anything either. If you're looking for sex then go for it but I've found sex too early can blow up a potential relationship. It's not just about sex, because she can get sex anytime she wants. It's about the validation OP gets from knowing that the guys want to have sex with her.
youngskywalker Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 If you're not too interested in sex, that's cool, but most men in their 30's are. If not, why waste time going out with strange women they don't know? If they just wanted platonic friendship, they would go out with the friends they already have. Are you suggesting the only difference between platonic friendships and romantic relationships is sex? If so how do you define love? Love is synonymous with sex and that's all there is to it? This is a rather archaic formulation. Presumably a woman who decides to have sex is not "giving herself" to the guy any more than he is giving himself to her. True, that's why I refrain. I don't want to give myself to anyone and a girl who IS willing to give her self to some guy she met off the street is a bit of a turnoff to me. I have a right to abstain just like someone has a right to have sex with anyone they want. Not having one night stands doesn't guarantee anything either. Agreed. It's not just about sex, because she can get sex anytime she wants. It's about the validation OP gets from knowing that the guys want to have sex with her. What is she accomplishing by this?
deebeechrisyo Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 What is she accomplishing by this? Absolutely nothing. She is mistaking the idea that "guys want to have sex with her", with "guys want to have sex". He'll do the same thing with every other girl at the bar, she just happened to put out first. On to the OP's topic: a lot of guys will test a girl by trying to have sex with her early on. If she complies, then she is written off as a long-term relationship candidate. If not, then the guy becomes intrigued. Guys don't like girls who put out easily, just as girls don't like passive/shy/weak/unattractive guys. The difference is guys will still have sex with the girl. This may be cruel but it's a fact of life. If you are looking for a LTR, I think making out early on is fine. Make sure you state your demands (lol) before sex though.
Author OceanGirl Posted December 25, 2010 Author Posted December 25, 2010 This not even a low self esteem thing. I think I have had a long drought so that's why. I genuinely enjoy making out with these guys on the first date. I even find myself attracted to some stranger that I am sitting next to on a train if he is not bad looking
youngskywalker Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 Absolutely nothing. She is mistaking the idea that "guys want to have sex with her", with "guys want to have sex". He'll do the same thing with every other girl at the bar, she just happened to put out first. On to the OP's topic: a lot of guys will test a girl by trying to have sex with her early on. If she complies, then she is written off as a long-term relationship candidate. If not, then the guy becomes intrigued. Guys don't like girls who put out easily, just as girls don't like passive/shy/weak/unattractive guys. The difference is guys will still have sex with the girl. This may be cruel but it's a fact of life. If you are looking for a LTR, I think making out early on is fine. Make sure you state your demands (lol) before sex though. Quite possibly the truest post I've read in my life. I'm youngskywalker and I endorse this message. OG, just give it a try once and see what happens. Don't kid yourself... Men DO test women. Sleep with a guy on the second date and you shoot yourself in the foot.
Star Gazer Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 Chicks with low self esteem often act out sexually, not because they actually want the sex (obviously they can get the sex pretty much anytime they want), but because they are seeking validation from a positive reaction from the male they are with. Leading with the vajayjay is pretty much the easiest way for most women to get validation, esp. from a man they don't really know. Since the validation/positive reaction is all they are looking for, the sex itself is almost beside the point. By the time a woman is in her 30's, she should understand that any kind of direct, physical overture on her part is interpreted as an invitation to/prelude to sex, on THAT date. So, if you don't want to create the expectation of having sex, you have to refrain from being so physical. You'll need to seek your validation from your dates in some other, much less sexually overt manner. This post is absolutely, 100000%, spot on.
freestyle Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 Ocean Girl~~if you're looking for a LTR, wait until you're sure a man respects you from the neck up, first. why be in a hurry?Plus. if you hold back, you can weed out the guys who are only interested in one thing (and it's NOT meeting your family) If the analogy helps, try to think of a relationship as fine wine....it takes time, and it needs to breathe.
musemaj11 Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 Its fine with women initiating contact or showing interest first, but physically they need to go at a slower pace if they would like to have a serious relationship. Being too eager kills attraction for both women and men.
dispatch3d Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 I am curious: guys what would you think of a girl who makes a move on you on date 1 (like a full on long make out session) and then refuses to go further on the next few dates? Game playing was the first thing that came to mind. That you at first showed "fake" interest and then backed off. In other words your just messing with my feelings or something. Obviously this would be the negative view of things (and worst possible view). But I'd say the majority of the population takes this kind of approach to life. Definitely being more gradual with liking a guy will be wayyyyyy more rewarding for him. Meaning you learn x about him, and decide to like him more. Then you learn y, and like him even more, etc. If I had to guess why this is an issue for you I'd assume it's because of low self control.
dispatch3d Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 This not even a low self esteem thing. I think I have had a long drought so that's why. I genuinely enjoy making out with these guys on the first date. I even find myself attracted to some stranger that I am sitting next to on a train if he is not bad looking lol or a high sex drive. Haha not a bad thing.
Author OceanGirl Posted December 25, 2010 Author Posted December 25, 2010 lol or a high sex drive. Haha not a bad thing. This sort of thing has only started happening since I turned 30 or so. In my 20's, I was barely attracted to anyone. Now I kind of understand how men feel
youngskywalker Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 Definitely being more gradual with liking a guy will be wayyyyyy more rewarding for him. Meaning you learn x about him, and decide to like him more. Then you learn y, and like him even more, etc. If I had to guess why this is an issue for you I'd assume it's because of low self control. I find it sexy if a girl shows some self control. It's a character trait I look for in a g/f. OG, if you just invest a little more time into a guy I agree with dispatch that you'll have wayyyyy more success. We're not talking about months here, just try to keep low key until the 4th or 5th date. Can you imagine the sexual tension you'll have by then? I bet the sex will be great Good luck.
zengirl Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 Her: Well, I don't want to do it with just anybody. I want there to be feelings. Me: Well guess what? With men, there are no feelings. At least not in the beginning. Men just want to get laid. Yeah, all guys aren't like that. Though maybe I like the "nerds and dweebs." My BF is gorgeous, but he's nerdy too --- and I love his nerdiness, as a good brain is sexy. A guy who uses his brain, his heart, and his penis, all together, often develops feelings and wants to get laid. For many of the men I've dated, the way they have felt/feel closest to me is during sex. I have some male friends who are at a point in their life when they aren't just interested in getting laid, and most of these men are the more attractive/desirable men --- who could easily get laid. They're over it. Its fine with women initiating contact or showing interest first, but physically they need to go at a slower pace if they would like to have a serious relationship. Being too eager kills attraction for both women and men. I don't know that it kills a man's attraction (some, probably, but many men I know would say differently), but if they don't really know you, it might turn out poorly when they do. The issue is, sex doesn't create the building blocks of a relationship.
FitChick Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 Fourth Planet, what you say makes sense. That is why I only do online dating. I'm not comfortable having sex with someone I just met. I can get to know a guy first from a distance to see if there are any deal breakers. I don't have to spend time on hair, makeup, dress, drive through traffic, only to discover within the first fifteen minutes of conversation that it isn't going to work, which is what usually happens in real life dating. It's been my experience that when I have chemistry via emails, phone calls and photos, it generally carries over to real life chemistry. Before meeting officially, we can both continue the online weeding process with others and if those other people don't excite us then our dating progresses to real life. That is when I have sex on the second or third date because I am not having sex with someone who feels like a stranger to me.
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 Fourth Planet, how can you continue to write your verbose diatribes proclaiming that you speak the truth for all men on a thread where other men (yes! real men!) contradict you? Others have said that "men don't like women who put out easily." Other MEN. Your perspective has been expressed. The fact remains that there are many, many of us who are in long term relationships with men with whom we did NOT sleep early on. YOU are not interested in other aspects of a woman besides what's between her legs, but plenty of men are. In fact, men on LS - lots of them - have said that they became seriously interested in a woman and preferred NOT to rush into sex with them. OG, what you need to do, like always, is to discover what is "true" to yourself and then work on manifesting that consistently in your behavior. I'm pretty sure that the sex crazed mounting-guy-in-a-bar girl is not really you and you feel uncomfortable with yourself and with whatever guy after you do stuff like that. I DON'T think it's "wrong" but if it's not good for you, where is it going to get you? Back to Fourth Planet's lectures: No girl / woman should tailor her sexual behavior because "guys like it" or "guys don't like it." There will be guys who will actually like you the way you really are. Some won't; it might feel bad, but that's the way it goes.
Author OceanGirl Posted December 26, 2010 Author Posted December 26, 2010 Fourth Planet, how can you continue to write your verbose diatribes proclaiming that you speak the truth for all men on a thread where other men (yes! real men!) contradict you? Others have said that "men don't like women who put out easily." Other MEN. Your perspective has been expressed. The fact remains that there are many, many of us who are in long term relationships with men with whom we did NOT sleep early on. YOU are not interested in other aspects of a woman besides what's between her legs, but plenty of men are. In fact, men on LS - lots of them - have said that they became seriously interested in a woman and preferred NOT to rush into sex with them. OG, what you need to do, like always, is to discover what is "true" to yourself and then work on manifesting that consistently in your behavior. I'm pretty sure that the sex crazed mounting-guy-in-a-bar girl is not really you and you feel uncomfortable with yourself and with whatever guy after you do stuff like that. I DON'T think it's "wrong" but if it's not good for you, where is it going to get you? Back to Fourth Planet's lectures: No girl / woman should tailor her sexual behavior because "guys like it" or "guys don't like it." There will be guys who will actually like you the way you really are. Some won't; it might feel bad, but that's the way it goes. Yes, I agree with this. I am not being true to myself with "mounting guys in the bar on the first date". That's not quite who I am and I guess that played a major part in why I didn't feel comfortable about going on the second "date" with that particular guy. I felt like I will have to keep up that act. Then the guys sense my inconsistency and think WTF. They think that I am playing games and are turned off. I think one of the major parts of my problem is that I don't really know who I am even though I am 32. Thus you see lot of inconsistency in my posts. I am trying to find that out and multi-dating helps - but I am still not quite sure. I can easily adapt to playing different roles by sensing what people want/need from me and doing exactly that. I have been doing that for years and have completely lost myself in the process.
musemaj11 Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) I don't know that it kills a man's attraction (some, probably, but many men I know would say differently), but if they don't really know you, it might turn out poorly when they do. The issue is, sex doesn't create the building blocks of a relationship. As the saying goes, "Men dont want to be in a club that would be ecstatic to have them as members." This is because men are more logic-oriented. They are more skeptical. For men, an overeager woman is like an overeager salesman. It makes them think that there might be something wrong with the product. Its not really about challenge. You need to give him time and convince him that you are not some defective Chinese made good. Edited December 26, 2010 by musemaj11
Els Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 For someone so obsessed with 50.00% equality, musemaj, you sure don't seem to believe in it yourself.
musemaj11 Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) For someone so obsessed with 50.00% equality, musemaj, you sure don't seem to believe in it yourself. I believe in myself. Its just that Im wise enought to realize through my day to day interaction with the rest of the menfolk that (sadly?) many if not most men apparently do not share my philosophy. If you notice throughout my advices, I refer to men as 'THEY' when I dont feel my view is the same as the men Im talking about. I dont get suspicious of overeager women because I believe Im wise enough to understand that eagerness is the nature of women and those who dont show such behavior are either just pretending or they are actually not interested. But many if not most other men dont think this far. Edited December 26, 2010 by musemaj11
zengirl Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 As the saying goes, "Men dont want to be in a club that would be ecstatic to have them as members." This is because men are more logic-oriented. They are more skeptical. For men, an overeager woman is like an overeager salesman. It makes them think that there might be something wrong with the product. Its not really about challenge. You need to give him time and convince him that you are not some defective Chinese made good. That's not the saying. Groucho Marx said HE didn't want to be a member of any club that would have him, speficially saying "people like me," which indicated a comic self-loathing of himself. Are you saying all men loathe themselves? That's pretty silly. I don't sleep with guys quickly, because I get to know them first, but I don't feel any desire to convince him of my 'worth' through withholding affection. That's pretty lame, and any man who insists on it from women----well, I'd never sleep with him anyway, because one of the reasons I get to know men before sleeping with them is to suss out the toxic ones. And men who see women as products or commodities are definitely toxic.
anned80 Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 OG, you sound so much like me! I'm currently very preoccupied with sex. I am recently divorced (was in a relationship for 10 years) and I find myself doing the same thing as you do. I definitely do not have low self esteem. I think for me it is almost a control thing in a way. That, and, I was in an almost completely loveless and sexless marriage for 3 years. For a while I THOUGHT I wanted to be in a relationship but I've realized recently that if I really wanted a relationship I would be acting differently. I am so focused on the physical right now. A friend told me that she thinks when one is so preoccupied with sex that it's the minds way of telling you that's all you can handle right now. I think she is probably right. I'm currently in a FBW arrangement and that has helped, but only slightly. We have a specific "rule" where we only see each other about every other week (as to not get emotionally attached) and it's not enough for me so I've considered having two casual sex partners. I figure this might help when I go out on dates to focus more on getting to know the person than making out with them!
Star Gazer Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 OG, you sound so much like me! She may sound like you in the OP, but we can all assure you that she isn't like you. She does want to be in a relationship. She doesn't want a FWB relationship, and even more so she doesn't want multiple simultaneous FWBs. She's a very different person.
NoLongerSad Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 They think that I am playing games and are turned off. If you aren't playing games, then what are you doing?
NoLongerSad Posted December 26, 2010 Posted December 26, 2010 I think one of the major parts of my problem is that I don't really know who I am even though I am 32. Thus you see lot of inconsistency in my posts. I am trying to find that out and multi-dating helps - but I am still not quite sure. If you really feel this uncertain about who you are, to the extent that the behavior you exhibit on dates is counter-productive, then you should not be dating at all, much less multi-dating. It's not fair to the people you are dating to be using them for "practice," then turn around and pretend that's not what you're doing. The reason these guys feel you are playing games with them is because: you are.
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