mr.dream merchant Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 (edited) Well for starters, I'm 22, single, in school, work, frequents the gym, logical, more supportive of the natural way of things ie. nature, etc.. I'm not too shabby looking at all, about 6'1" 194 lbs: http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd518/Ayemtee8807/489381558_1717724808_0.jpg http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd518/Ayemtee8807/44568_1368416254308_1348740078_856380_7294930_n.jpg http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd518/Ayemtee8807/38089_444804318972_501773972_6110377_2048778_n.jpg http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd518/Ayemtee8807/okok2.jpg http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd518/Ayemtee8807/13042_179495498972_501773972_3795481_4678295_n.jpg When it comes to women, it gets clearer each time, that they just want me for my looks. So what I do is show them what I have to offer, personality wise. What my family is like, the things I like to do, etc. And every time, the woman is either put off, says I'm "too good" to be true, or just straight up floored. I guess people, when they see me, they just judge me? I've had women that I barely know tell me that I'm cocky (not going to lie, I got a bit of an ego boost last year, but since then I've been pretty humble). If I do something with confidence? I'm cocky. If I wear a shirt that fits me well? I'm a show off. It's like, I can't live without being labeled some kind of pretty boy show off big headed cocky son of a gun. Problem is, this spills over into dating big time. I've been on a role with the kind of women I pick up. They usually fall into two categories: Women that just want to show me off. And women that just want to use me (physical or mental purposes). Couple that with my slight jaded personality about younger women in South Florida...it really does hurt my game. The woman in my last thread, titled "what gives?", I've gotta hand it to her - she knew her **** in and out. There were times she could read what I said to her, like a book, then replay what I meant by it right back at me. She a year and 8 months my senior, very lovely, but your typical let's party party party girl. She was my change of pace. I decided to suck it up, due away with all those insecure thoughts about women like her, and give it a go. And wow, what a roller coaster ride lol. I really enjoyed myself with her. The time spent together, the sex, the dates, the clubbing. Everything was so genuine **** just flowed. But we had our arguments. Most of them, were started because of something I said to her. She hails from New England by the way of Flatbush, Brooklyn. Me myself? If I'm comfortable enough my settings and the people there, I'm a real jokester. I do/say what I feel, and I usually get some laughs out of it. But with her, sometimes it was hard to read her. Times she would laugh at my jokes, times she would laugh at me , and then...there were times where she got offended by what I said, and upon me telling her I was just kidding around, she'd tell me I was full of **** and that I only said that as a cover up. And queue the fights.... One issue that I've been dealing with for a long term is my short temper when it comes to unnecessary drama/bull****. So imagine how I felt being sucked into a Soap Opera scene over a joke that I said? With her, it wasn't too bad. One out of our three fights did I actually lose my cool, but I didn't yell or swear @ her. But the other two fights, she could tell I was annoyed. When I get annoyed, you can see it on my face. Point is, even though I kept it cool, the things she was saying struck a nerve. And this kind of inhibits my ability to efficiently take and give constructive criticism. So due to that, and not wanting the argument to escalate any further...I would take leave. I'd go up to her, cup her hands in mine, look her in the eye and tell her that I really enjoyed the night, and I don't want it to end on a bad note, so I'm leaving. This worked the first time, but the second time around, in her eyes, she saw it as a drawback to my personality. She saw that I couldn't take it when she kept striking those nerves with stress...so she called me out on it. How do you work on this? How does one rewire yourself to be able to look cool as a fan when someone is striking those nerves? I can't put it down because, to be quite honest, the reason why she left is because of our arguments. Because she saw how I got in our arguments. Flustered, and unwilling to talk if all it was going to do is raise each others tempers. We bumped heads, and even a deaf dumb and blind person could see it. She would push, and push, and keep pushing. I'd tell her no the first time, the 2nd time, and the 3rd time that was it. Our worst argument, she had said something that really disrespected me. And I lost my cool. I stood up, told her she disrespected me, I'm leaving. She followed me to her door still trying to argue over what I didn't want to. So what did I do? I cut her off. She got upset and kicked me out of her house. Its as if she needed to have the last word. That night I split with her over text on the drive home. She told me let's talk it out, so I did..only for her to say herself that we should go our seperate ways. It was if our whole..being together was some game, some kind of competition. And when she saw that she had me, that's when she started taking her exit. I don't understand it. She wasn't the only woman to blow me off. I've had at least 4 others blow me off. I'm not an overly persistent annoying guy. I just like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and look on the optimistic side of things since I used to be very judgemental and pessimistic. Am I too available? When I genuinely take a liking to a woman, I do what I can to be available when she is available. Doesn't mean I skip class or call out of work. But if I have free time when she does, I never ever stop to think "Damn, I'm being too available - lemme lie about going out of town this weekend..make her chase it!" I just don't see the point in playing games when it comes to building a relationship. I believe in strong foundations. So if you're gaming your girl in the beginning..what's going to happen later on when you have her and you get comfortable? Surely you won't be that same guy who's game she fell to right? Not really sure anymore. My lack of success in securing a companion has really got me questioning myself. Maybe it wasn't her, or the other one before her, or the others before her...but me? Thing is, I don't see anything wrong with what I'm doing. Another thing I can't do, is play the option. You guys are probably familiar with my multi-dating thread. Truth is, I can't stand to be some guy # whatever a woman is seeing. To me that's like the ultimate sucker role. I have way too much pride for it, but I don't know why..cause in those early stages, who cares if she's seeing other guys I don't love her...but like I said, when a woman tells me she's seeing other men, I appreciate her honesty, but don't really favor her method to dating. So I always end up taking the exit. It's not the competition, it's not the fact that she could pick some guy over me...but the way I see it is..why be placed in this gauntlet/competition to win over some woman? Why am I sitting here paying for dinner when she's seeing other men? Why am I sitting here listening to her stories while she's seeing other men? Why am I sitting here feeling like I'm in a job interview when she's seeing other men? Why am I sitting here like I'm on ebay playing wait around for the prize? The last woman I was with, she told me she doesn't talk to / date multiple men at once because she feels its too much running around. She said she didn't see anything wrong with it, but that's not her. At the time, I do believe I wasn't completely honest with her. I told her it wouldn't have mattered to me, which was true, but at the same time, I definitely would've judged her for it. Thing is, her friend told me that since her and I weren't exclusive, she'd be seeing other men. Upon finding out what her friend told me, she was upset. She said "If I were seeing other men, and I'm not, it shouldn't matter anyways". I don't agree with that. Cause at the point we were already making out, and I was taking her out, paying for our dates. I think it would matter a lot. That's why I can't deal with multi-daters. I can't take some women out who's seeing other men. Cause who knows what she's doing with them. And here I am, option # whatever, paying for her date..to only get a hug and a "I really enjoyed myself". So it's definitely an ego thing with multi-dating. Same reason why I can't take girls who put out easy seriously. I just look at it like, wow, if him, his friend, and their cousin all got it without having to invest anything, why should I invest anything? I should just get it easy to. But when a woman who's multi-dating or easy, tries to run me through a gauntlet. I scoff at her..like wow, is she really that audacious? It's sounds wrong. But is it so wrong to know your place in the dating pool? To know that generally, you're more attractive than the next guy, and that you've got more things going on than the next guy, so in your eyes, you're more of a catch than the next guy? Is it wrong when women try to treat me like the next guy and I kind of laugh at them in my mind like "look at this woman, trying to play me like an average cat". I know I wouldn't treat my female counterpart like she's some average out of shape woman (which isn't bad treatment!)...but I know there's a clear difference. So why do women try to treat me like I was born yesterday? Why do they try and make me chase them more than the next guy? It really does offend me, and it usually just ends up in us not talking anymore. I feel like I shouldn't have to chase to a certain extent. That once I show interest, she should also work at keeping my interest, as I do for her..cause I'm not your average guy. Blah, that's all I can invest in this post so far. The gym calls. A trend in what I do see is this though: 1. I'm a cocky guy 2. Girls blow me off (without reason), then always end up hitting me up later on for dates and sex..as if I'm an option Anybody with a degree in psychology please feel free to tear me a new one. I need a serious overhaul. Not here to be judged, I just want to be a better candidate for dating. Feeling like an Eagle that can't fly. Edited December 21, 2010 by mr.dream merchant
Surrealist Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 It's the dating dynamics, particularly with those party girlies around your age group. It sucks? Yeah. They could be finding other hot guys as well you know, so you may not be the 'pick of the litter' as you might think you are, and typical of these sorts of girls, why settle for this one when there is an even hotter one with more $$$ and status etc. As for developing your relationships with the girls you get, well it takes maturity from both parties and to be honest, it sounds like something you lack, as do your partners. This is a recipe for a relationship breakdown. Relationships are not easy to nurture or maintain. Mutual respect, compromise and good communications are essential. Volumes are written on relationships. I just want to comment on the following part of your post: "I believe in strong foundations. So if you're gaming your girl in the beginning..what's going to happen later on when you have her and you get comfortable? Surely you won't be that same guy who's game she fell to right?" Yeah you're probably right, but you know, these are the type of girls who fall for your 'gaming' to only fall for similar 'gaming' when the next guy with 'game' comes along. Point to note, if you have to play the game to get the chick, she will less likely be suitable for an LTR. She will be gone in the instant that the relationship starts to get a little mundane and the next hot guy comes along to woo her.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted December 22, 2010 Author Posted December 22, 2010 It's the dating dynamics, particularly with those party girlies around your age group. It sucks? Yeah. They could be finding other hot guys as well you know, so you may not be the 'pick of the litter' as you might think you are, and typical of these sorts of girls, why settle for this one when there is an even hotter one with more $$$ and status etc. As for developing your relationships with the girls you get, well it takes maturity from both parties and to be honest, it sounds like something you lack, as do your partners. This is a recipe for a relationship breakdown. Relationships are not easy to nurture or maintain. Mutual respect, compromise and good communications are essential. Volumes are written on relationships. I just want to comment on the following part of your post: "I believe in strong foundations. So if you're gaming your girl in the beginning..what's going to happen later on when you have her and you get comfortable? Surely you won't be that same guy who's game she fell to right?" Yeah you're probably right, but you know, these are the type of girls who fall for your 'gaming' to only fall for similar 'gaming' when the next guy with 'game' comes along. Point to note, if you have to play the game to get the chick, she will less likely be suitable for an LTR. She will be gone in the instant that the relationship starts to get a little mundane and the next hot guy comes along to woo her. Where do you see the lack of maturity on my part @ Surrealist?
Jannah Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 I think women have similar views towards guys in the sense that men can be what's referred to as "eye candy", some are good just for "**ahem**", and men who are relationship material, which can include the above, but there is also substance and value within his core being.
sally4sara Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 Looking at the pics, Jersey Shore comes to mind. I think of you along the same lines as a 19 year old girl who got her hands on a fake ID to get her into the clubs. How she would dress would be reflective of what she values in herself - T&A because she knows it will get her attention. And then she is all confused and cranky when guys only approach her for the T&A. Well chicky, its what you're selling! Clearly you thought showcasing your body would get you more dating options, and the nicer the body, the more options you'd have. So that is what you've invested in when the idea of "how can I better myself" occurred to you. It only stands to reason that the people it gathers to you, will be taking interest in the external appearance. You wanted more options but you don't want to be an option? You wanted more attention and you got it but you don't like the quality of the attention you get because your approach puts you in the mix with other people who value external appearance over character and employ it, just as you do, to increase their own options. You're all just clubbing style options to each other; human accessories - only YOU'RE wanting to be chosen from among others by someone who will drop all their other options. Personally, I think you're getting what comes with your own character depth and it isn't going to change until you change.
Rudderless Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 good post sally, but a bit harsh, since he's only 22, comes with the territory
sally4sara Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 good post sally, but a bit harsh, since he's only 22, comes with the territory Meh. Read his other posts and then decide if I was harsh or if I took it easy on him.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted December 22, 2010 Author Posted December 22, 2010 Looking at the pics, Jersey Shore comes to mind. I think of you along the same lines as a 19 year old girl who got her hands on a fake ID to get her into the clubs. How she would dress would be reflective of what she values in herself - T&A because she knows it will get her attention. And then she is all confused and cranky when guys only approach her for the T&A. Well chicky, its what you're selling! Clearly you thought showcasing your body would get you more dating options, and the nicer the body, the more options you'd have. So that is what you've invested in when the idea of "how can I better myself" occurred to you. It only stands to reason that the people it gathers to you, will be taking interest in the external appearance. You wanted more options but you don't want to be an option? You wanted more attention and you got it but you don't like the quality of the attention you get because your approach puts you in the mix with other people who value external appearance over character and employ it, just as you do, to increase their own options. You're all just clubbing style options to each other; human accessories - only YOU'RE wanting to be chosen from among others by someone who will drop all their other options. Personally, I think you're getting what comes with your own character depth and it isn't going to change until you change. Hmm. Gotta say Sally, we've bumped heads before but I really do appreciate your constructive criticism. Wasn't so harsh to me, as long as the disrespect line isn't crossed you know? And yeah, maybe I should lock away the goods. What if the pics were me in a fitted v-neck shirt? Or a Hanes tee? Would I still give you that Jersey Shore vibe?
Rudderless Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 Meh. Read his other posts and then decide if I was harsh or if I took it easy on him. Ah ok. You'll have to forgive me, I haven't visited this place in a year. Starting to realise why
USMCHokie Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 And yeah, maybe I should lock away the goods. What if the pics were me in a fitted v-neck shirt? Or a Hanes tee? Would I still give you that Jersey Shore vibe? No matter how you present yourself externally to others, you're going to have this problem as long as you allow your body to define who you are. Yes, it's great to have a decent body, and most women will react favorably towards it, but if that's all women are reacting to, or even the first thing women are reacting to, you're only going to draw the ones that you don't want.
Jannah Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 And yeah, maybe I should lock away the goods. What if the pics were me in a fitted v-neck shirt? Or a Hanes tee? Would I still give you that Jersey Shore vibe? You're a good looking fella, no doubt. But if this is something that is of concern to you, that you want to change, and want to attract women with more depth - then the attitude is the first over haul (i.e. retired jump off thread comes to mind). As for the pics, I think this one is the most flattering in terms of "all-around" package: [COLOR=#660000]http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/..._7294930_n.jpg[/COLOR]
Star Gazer Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 No matter how you present yourself externally to others, you're going to have this problem as long as you allow your body to define who you are.... ...as it makes it look like that's all you've got to offer, and what you prioritize. When what you present to women signals that it's looks/hot bod that YOU value, it makes them think that's really all you have to offer, and that they're justified in using you for what you offer - those looks and hot bod. If YOU don't present to them like you care about anything else, why should they? You can't control the way you're perceived, only the way you're presented. Keep in mind the two are still inextricably linked. Showing off your body the way you do isn't going to get you what you want. You can still wear flattering, tasteful clothes that show you've got a nice physique.
Woggle Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 Try dating outside of your circle. If all you date is party girls then this will keep happening.
creighton0123 Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 You're obviously physically strong and good looking. You know that, but when it comes to relating with people you're interested in, you may come off in a different way. When women approach you because of sex, that's nothing to be ashamed of. As an adult, if you want to have sex, have sex, but don't expect any worth in those relationships. I've heard this from a few female friends. In dating men who are obviously taking pride in their personal appearance and who are built well (through athletics or gym exercise), there is almost a universal desire to feel relaxed and comfortable with that person. You describe yourself as someone who comes off as high-energy, cocky, and beaming with pride. This isn't a bad thing, but can most definitely cause a number of things to manifest in the women you're dating: 1. Tenancy to not take you seriously 2. Desire for only a physical relationship 3. Lacking comfort in communication 4. Hesitation in pursuit of monogamy To put it bluntly, you get back what you give out at a purely psychological level. There are three things that stood out in your original post: "And wow, what a roller coaster ride lol. I really enjoyed myself with her. The time spent together, the sex, the dates, the clubbing." "Me myself? If I'm comfortable enough my settings and the people there, I'm a real jokester. I do/say what I feel, and I usually get some laughs out of it." and you used the terms "Me, I'm, I've, I" over 150 times in the entire post. This suggests a number of things: 1. You're meeting girls and engaging in social activities where people are prone to not pursue monogamy. 2. You tend to fly by your seat in social settings. For someone as strong and assertive as you, this can make women think you're consistently like, being unable to exhibit calm, assuring energy. 3. You spent quite a bit of time concerned about yourself, which may manifest in immaturity. I saw this in two lines of your original post, one where you ended a date because something offensive was said and a second where you refer to your short temper. Neither are qualities that should exhibit in the beginning of a potentially long term relationship. If you're interested in meeting girls looking for monogamous relationships, I'd suggest that you're looking in the wrong places and giving off the wrong energy.
sally4sara Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 What if the pics were me in a fitted v-neck shirt? Or a Hanes tee? Would I still give you that Jersey Shore vibe? Its not about the shirt. That is still you focusing on the external packaging. Its the projection of attitude you're wearing in the photos. We all have photos. What we don't all have is a collection of photos showcasing our "visage". Its very "check me out ladies!" and no different from the "holy crap I have boobs now!" girls I see in tube dresses and heeled sandals running down the middle of Adam's Morgan in the winter, too scared that their physical appeal will take a nose dive if they wear a coat. They might not capture the attention of every willing ONS on the strip - oh the horror! Rudderless is right; you'll probably outgrow it eventually, just like the club girls you find only worth a hump and dump will once they recover from amazement over having sprouted their jummblies and swells. Lets hope you won't have to deal with a life time of Valtrex upkeep to show for it by the time the club scene isn't so appealing to you. Could it be you're beginning to see that it isn't just women who get discredited by the casual lifestyle they enter into - that you too can be seen as low quality for your own presence in that scene? I sure hope so.
elaina Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 You're a good looking fella, no doubt. But if this is something that is of concern to you, that you want to change, and want to attract women with more depth - then the attitude is the first over haul (i.e. retired jump off thread comes to mind). As for the pics, I think this one is the most flattering in terms of "all-around" package: [COLOR=#660000]http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/..._7294930_n.jpg[/COLOR] I agree with everything Jannah said, and that smile is a million dollar smile! About communication, it is really hard for some men and some women to communicate well with the opposite sex without getting upset/mad anyways, it seems. (At least, for some couples.) I'm 33, but I got married when I was 23 and my exhusband is a wonderful man, and the sex rocked our world, and we were both in our prime, and everything was awesome, except for the communication area That is why we got divorced, because I got bitter for little things after 5 years of marriage nd let everything bottle up inside until I exploded, and he and I didn't understand each other until it was too late. He didn't even know I was so mad until I exploded, and I should have been mature enough to talk with him and get things worked out. Relationships are not just peaches and cream. They are hard work too, but they are worth it, in my opinion.... like working out. Sometimes working out is not all feeling good. Sometimes it hurts, but it's worth it. So, I think it's great that you want to work on communicating. I'm sorry it didn't work out with your last girl. I don't know if there are communication classes that you can take, or how best to learn how to communicate better. Experience and growing in maturity are good teachers too. I know I have changed a lot for the better since I was in my 20s. I'm not saying you're immature... just that people can grow in maturity as they get older when they learn from mistakes they've made. Anyways, I don't understand about the playing games thing. When I was 20, I met my exhusband and his plans became my plans. We were always together... we went to our university together and studied at the library together and church together and to parties together (we didn't go clubbing but we would go bowling and to friends' houses and camping and everything together and I would visit him at his work) We just didn't live together and we didn't have sex till we were married. So, this not being "too available" I don't get frankly at all. Times have changed I guess. I hope you find Miss Right! Don't give up! But yeah, also don't focus so much on girls seeing your hot appearance until they get to know your heart!
SteveC80 Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 I was kinda in the same boat when i was younger,i was extremely good lookinf or so i was told and i can tell i was used to show off and as a trophy by numerous women,it made me see that women are just as worse if not more shallow then Men as a whole It also can be used against you to be real good looking in that most women wheter they say so or not are overly insecure about their appereance things in general,women will feel isnecure at the amount of female attention you get and feel insecure and not want to compete in fear that you will eventually leave them with so many options I actually had a women leave me because she said i was too good looking and knew id leave her and said she had to marry an average lookign Man who would treat her like gold and not get the opportunity to cheat and she ended up doing just that marrying a average looking guy Women can be goofy
Woggle Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 I was kinda in the same boat when i was younger,i was extremely good lookinf or so i was told and i can tell i was used to show off and as a trophy by numerous women,it made me see that women are just as worse if not more shallow then Men as a whole It also can be used against you to be real good looking in that most women wheter they say so or not are overly insecure about their appereance things in general,women will feel isnecure at the amount of female attention you get and feel insecure and not want to compete in fear that you will eventually leave them with so many options I actually had a women leave me because she said i was too good looking and knew id leave her and said she had to marry an average lookign Man who would treat her like gold and not get the opportunity to cheat and she ended up doing just that marrying a average looking guy Women can be goofy And I bet she is cheating on that guy.
AverageJoe Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Interesting. I see a couple of posts here that attempt to attack your character as if you are in the wrong. Or the planets are not aligning properly or something. I will stick with what you posted and share my "opinion". You are right, there is nothing wrong with you. It took me a long time to realize there was nothing wrong with me. You too will soon realize this. No matter what silly **** a women may tell you. Last time it happened I looked dead at this girl and said, you know, there was nothing wrong with me until I met you! The last thing she saw was ass and elbows. And its true! There wasnt anything wrong with me. She wanted me to compromise who I was. Guess what? It is not an isolated incident. Women play this game all the time, then you are left second guessing yourself. Dont do it. Some of these women can be very manipulative. Stay true to yourself and dont allow that allure to change who you are. Do not compromise. Just because a date or two does not work out does not mean you have exhausted all of your options out there. They just were not for you. Cocky? You damn right you are, and know it. But you just need to work on finding that cocky balance that works for you. Hone it and work on it. Be a man, too many pussy's running around now that dont know how to be a man. Dont make yourself so available. You return those calls and txts when you get around to it. You have better things to do. If a female thinks she can make you jump, she will test how high you can. If you respond that way, you become doormat material later on down the line. Your short temper? Well, I am not justifying anything but females have them too so you are not alone in that regard. I personally dont let anything get to me. That just pisses them off even more. Give it a shot. You really dont need to say much of anything, just know within yourself you dont give a ****. And then believe and know it. The problem is theirs, not yours man.
zengirl Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 I guess people, when they see me, they just judge me? Well, they definitely do, and welcome to the universe we live in. I mean, how do you know a guy you see on the street is homeless? He looks it. How do you know a guy is a businessman? He's in a suit. Etc. My point is: There is absolutely not one damn person in the universe who isn't being judged when people see them. It happens constantly, and fighting it is as pointless as fighting your need to breathe. I've had women that I barely know tell me that I'm cocky (not going to lie, I got a bit of an ego boost last year, but since then I've been pretty humble). If I do something with confidence? I'm cocky. If I wear a shirt that fits me well? I'm a show off. It's like, I can't live without being labeled some kind of pretty boy show off big headed cocky son of a gun. You sound cocky in your posts. You think very highly of yourself, in a way that would turn me off bigtime. You seem materialistic. You seem obsessed with looks in a transactional way -- i.e. what the masses like, not simply what you dig personally. Of course, you should wear shirts that fit you well. Of course, you should like who you are, but you should put more into yourself than fitness. I think quality girls look for certain qualities in men. For me, I only like guys who care more about enjoying life than what other people think. And that doesn't mean lacking consideration for other people, but just being really sure of and true to who they are. I definitely don't get that vibe from your posts, personally. Part of that may be youth. College is a different time. How do you work on this? How does one rewire yourself to be able to look cool as a fan when someone is striking those nerves? Acceptance. I'm not sure that's a skill everyone needs, but if you want to acquire it, I suggest zen or Buddhism or Taoism or somesuch. They all do a pretty good job at explaining how not to let anything in the world bother you too much on that level. I think it's a lovely skill, but probably not your primary problem. I think your primary problem is: 1.) Your self-presentation and possibly your personal priorities. 2.) The places you meet women and pursuing party girls. 3.) The things you value in a woman being unclear---i.e. Do you want someone fun and spontaneous like a party girl or do you want someone solid and steady? It can be balanced and not super extreme, sure, but I don't think you've got it all worked out---this one isn't a big deal, really, as it's part of what being your age is about. I will say, you worry a lot about being disrespected. You should get over that. Not saying you should take disrespect from someone you're dating -- never do -- but if they truly disrespect you, there is no conversation. There is only leaving. If they accidentally disrespect you, making it a pride thing helps no one. Fights are useful in only one way --- finding solutions that work for both parties (i.e. finding a way so that you don't have to feel disrespected again and they get why you're upset, but one they can also accept). Anything else you do with them is only destructive. Not saying they can be avoided, but try to only fight constructively, if you can help it. Trying to win a fight with a partner is beyond stupid. There is no winning in a fight----there is only getting out as best you can. Am I too available? When I genuinely take a liking to a woman, I do what I can to be available when she is available. Doesn't mean I skip class or call out of work. But if I have free time when she does, I never ever stop to think "Damn, I'm being too available - lemme lie about going out of town this weekend..make her chase it!" I just don't see the point in playing games when it comes to building a relationship. Would being less available help with some of these girls? Maybe. Would it make you happier? I don't know. But that's the more important question. As is this one: Are you picking the right girls? And are you the man that the right girls would want? Another thing I can't do, is play the option. You guys are probably familiar with my multi-dating thread. Truth is, I can't stand to be some guy # whatever a woman is seeing. To me that's like the ultimate sucker role. I have way too much pride for it, but I don't know why..cause in those early stages, who cares if she's seeing other guys I don't love her...but like I said, when a woman tells me she's seeing other men, I appreciate her honesty, but don't really favor her method to dating. So I always end up taking the exit. It's not the competition, it's not the fact that she could pick some guy over me...but the way I see it is..why be placed in this gauntlet/competition to win over some woman? Why am I sitting here paying for dinner when she's seeing other men? Why am I sitting here listening to her stories while she's seeing other men? Why am I sitting here feeling like I'm in a job interview when she's seeing other men? Why am I sitting here like I'm on ebay playing wait around for the prize? Except for maybe paying for dinner --- which you never have todo and certainly is reasonable not to do with someone who is obviously multidating (How do you know they're multidating? is really the question) -- you're listening to her stories, hanging out with her, and eating a meal with her because you like her and want to be around her. Which is all you really know in the early stages anyway. Stop thinking of it as some kind of one-up competition waste-of-time thing. Any date could be a waste of time. That's life. Stop trying to "win." It isn't about winning. Now, if she's obviously playing you off of other guys, that's tacky. Don't date those women. I can see how you'd attract them, based on some of your attitudes, but I'd never advise anyone date them unless they were only into hooking up. Thing is, her friend told me that since her and I weren't exclusive, she'd be seeing other men. Upon finding out what her friend told me, she was upset. She said "If I were seeing other men, and I'm not, it shouldn't matter anyways". I don't agree with that. Cause at the point we were already making out, and I was taking her out, paying for our dates. I think it would matter a lot. That's why I can't deal with multi-daters. I can't take some women out who's seeing other men. Cause who knows what she's doing with them. And here I am, option # whatever, paying for her date..to only get a hug and a "I really enjoyed myself". Take girls out because you want to. Only pay if you want to. Stop worrying about the other stuff and stop listening to "friends." That's all lame. That said, if you want exclusivity and you want a real commitment, ask for it. At a time when you want it because you dig the girl and not because you've paid for it or whatever. So it's definitely an ego thing with multi-dating. Same reason why I can't take girls who put out easy seriously. I just look at it like, wow, if him, his friend, and their cousin all got it without having to invest anything, why should I invest anything? I should just get it easy to. But when a woman who's multi-dating or easy, tries to run me through a gauntlet. I scoff at her..like wow, is she really that audacious? Now, if the girl is tacky, I get it. However, you have the most immature reasons for doing all of this. That's lame. And it gets you the quality you get when you approach life that way. It's sounds wrong. But is it so wrong to know your place in the dating pool? To know that generally, you're more attractive than the next guy, and that you've got more things going on than the next guy, so in your eyes, you're more of a catch than the next guy? Is it wrong when women try to treat me like the next guy and I kind of laugh at them in my mind like "look at this woman, trying to play me like an average cat". Yes, that's arrogant. Wrong? Eh, I don't know about wrong, but I'd go with unproductive if you're seeking quality women. Self-respect is great. Ego-driven stuff like this, not so much. Any woman who tries to "play" any man is no great catch either, though. Quality women don't do that, and quality men don't allow it. And it has nothing to do with their abs. I know I wouldn't treat my female counterpart like she's some average out of shape woman (which isn't bad treatment!)...but I know there's a clear difference. So why do women try to treat me like I was born yesterday? Why do they try and make me chase them more than the next guy? It really does offend me, and it usually just ends up in us not talking anymore. I feel like I shouldn't have to chase to a certain extent. That once I show interest, she should also work at keeping my interest, as I do for her..cause I'm not your average guy. Depends on what you mean by "chase." And plenty of women will take iniative these days. Less in college, probably. Women get more self-assured a little later, on average. But sure, a girl should do certain things---return calls promptly, be on time for dates, show affection, etc---to convey their interest as well. Your attitude about it is, again, lacking. It's not about what people should do because you're so great----it's about general respect.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted December 23, 2010 Author Posted December 23, 2010 1. Wear more tasteful clothing in pictures 2. Try not to be so high-strung and relax 3. Stop being so worried about being played for a sucker 4. Respect people? What's been gathered so far. Where does a guy start? How? Always felt respect was given to people I interact with. As for not wanting to deal with easy women or women that multi-date, why is that immature? Shouldn't a person have some pride and self value?
zengirl Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 1. Wear more tasteful clothing in pictures 2. Try not to be so high-strung and relax 3. Stop being so worried about being played for a sucker 4. Respect people? What's been gathered so far. Where does a guy start? How? Always felt respect was given to people I interact with. As for not wanting to deal with easy women or women that multi-date, why is that immature? Shouldn't a person have some pride and self value? Well, people should have self-respect, but I'm not sure pride ever did anyone any good. Just the phrase "easy" is immature. It implies you believe men should 'work' for sex. . . Oh, but you won't chase, because you're too awesome of a man. It makes me all confused. Even the glimpses of your value system muddle me, it's no wonder you aren't getting results. Really pull out these values, examine them, and see which ones are working for you. It's not immature to choose not to date someone, of course; I meant your reasoning for why you didn't like those things above sounded immature. It's all about pride and games and shallow things.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted December 23, 2010 Author Posted December 23, 2010 Well, people should have self-respect, but I'm not sure pride ever did anyone any good. Just the phrase "easy" is immature. It implies you believe men should 'work' for sex. . . Oh, but you won't chase, because you're too awesome of a man. It makes me all confused. Even the glimpses of your value system muddle me, it's no wonder you aren't getting results. Really pull out these values, examine them, and see which ones are working for you. It's not immature to choose not to date someone, of course; I meant your reasoning for why you didn't like those things above sounded immature. It's all about pride and games and shallow things. Are you suggesting I overhaul my whole value system in women? Why is it wrong for me to not want a woman who puts out quick for most guys?
zengirl Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Are you suggesting I overhaul my whole value system in women? Why is it wrong for me to not want a woman who puts out quick for most guys? I'm suggesting you examine your value system in general. The more important things aren't WHAT you want but WHY you want them and if it's WORKING for you to have the values you have. Your thoughts, actions, and results are determined by your values. You seem to have plenty of values that actively conflict with each other and your goals. I'm also suggesting the way you view promiscuity is immature, yes, but that is not the sole heart -- or even close -- of the above, and also not the same as saying you should go out with girls who sleep around. It's the reasoning and phrasing the belies immature values in that area. I don't date men who are promiscuous and desire to sleep around, personally, but it's got nothing to do with them being "easy" or my thinking that they should be some sort of prize that withholds sex. And it's got nothing to do with "most" guys or "most" women. You worry too much about shallow things, like imaginary competitions with other people.
sally4sara Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Are you suggesting I overhaul my whole value system in women? Why is it wrong for me to not want a woman who puts out quick for most guys? But you do want them because, as you've shared before, you're easy. And from the sound of this post, you wish they were even easier by dropping their other options long enough for you both to be easy together till you decide they're too low quality to be with easy low quality you. The problem is they're not as impressed with you as you'd like and that makes it harder for you to feel above them. Valtrax. You're going to need it.
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