To everyone in an Affair

[Mimolicious]

Guess I haven't been here much or paid much attention if this is how she is all the time.

 

Really, GEL, what's up? I remember you from way back and your were so much fun and so helpful. You were able to speak to both sides without such anger. Why so different now? NID, do you remember those days?

 

Yeah I wonder too:confused:. This is not even trying to sound funny. I totally remember that person way back, something is off and this person is spazzing on LS. Can't be all chirpy. Replies go from bad to worse...

[NoIDidn't]

Nah - please, aren't you being a wee bit dramatic? Shocked and dismayed? No.

 

I just don't understand why this thread is such a hot button. Why shouldn't OW/OM share what's great and wonderful and fantastic about their partners?

 

Such things DO exist in this world, you know. And considering it's a PUBLIC forum......

 

I'm not the one here protesting that others aren't happy for me. You are.

 

You've repeated it several times about not understanding why people aren't happy for you. The shock and the horror!

 

Actually, you're right. You likely aren't shocked and dismayed. You seem pretty pleased with yourself to have pushed the buttons of some. Which was probably your point. Almost like trolling just to get a rise out of people and then feigning concern when they do respond.

 

I don't see anything loving about this thread.

 

Its in very poor taste.

[Ladyblue]

Its a very self-centered version of love being mentioned. Like you said, the OW/OM who love the least are often the ones that are "happy" in their affairs. And its because their "love" is based on how the MP makes THEM feel.

 

Which returns back to the beginning of this thread with all the self-validating statements being made. The question was asked to tell the forum what the OP loved about the MP. But the initial responses were ALL about how they themselves felt about the attention.

 

Very telling. Yet again.

 

As an OW, I agree that it was a very self-centered love, for both of us. Oh, we didn't realize it at the time. We had loved each other all our lives, he asked me to be his wife when we were 5! We always thought we'd be together, forced apart as teens. And when he called me three years ago next month, devastated after catching his W in yet another PA, his life a shambles, what did I do?

 

Did I encourage him to FACE his problems? DID I encourage him to CONFRONT, to GET COUNSEL, to stay strong and DEAL WITH the issues wrecking his life? DID I spend time thinking about what would be BEST for HIM? What would make HIM the happiest, in the long run? Did I stop and think for one minute what his many years of marriage, and their 4 grown children they had together might mean to him? Did I pray for him to have wisdom? Did I even consider giving him space to sort things out? Did I think about what might cause him shame, or what might help him do what he needed to do, while still feeling like a man of integrity?

 

Did I spend one minute considering what would be best for him?

 

HELL, NO! All I could think was, "AT LAST! HE'S COME BACK TO ME! NOW WE CAN BE TOGETHER!"

 

Our "love" was so amazing, I didn't want to give it up, more than I never wanted to give anything up. But it was selfish and soul-destroying for both of us.

 

Well, maybe I spent a minute thinking that I was so much better for him than that witch he married. But I didn't fully consider his feelings, his needs, his self-esteem or self-respect --- nor did I consider mine. I couldn't even think long term about what he might really want, or the least painful and best way for him to deal with the problems in his marriage.

 

I couldn't think about what I was doing to myself. No, the stolen moments, and the incredible LOOOOOVE we had for each other made it all worth it. At the moment.

 

Long-term, I AM ASHAMED. I am ashamed of my choices, I am ashamed of the way I encouranged him to act, the way I didn't help him, like a true friend should, to make the choices that would truly be best for HIM, based on HIS CORE FEELINGS AND BELIEFS.

 

Oh, sure, I still think I am the better woman. I know I am. But that doesn't mean that HE is ready to throw away all he and his W have together. And that it caused him shame to be in an affair. I didn't understand or consider the intricacies of their relationship together.

 

I WANTED WHAT I WANTED, AND I WENT FOR IT, AND IT HURT BOTH OF US.

[AngeletteX]

I'm curious why you think "with those we love" is so important and/or relevant to being happy as an OW/OM that you even bolded it?

 

Isn't love important to you?

 

And I started my thread as a counterpoint to what normally gets tossed around here - that within an A the feelings are *not* love, it's just a fantasy and *not* real, etc.

 

My observation is that the OW/OM who love the least are the ones who are happiest with affairs. Ones who love the most often want more than a secret affair gives them.

 

I DISAGREE. It's not the ones who "love the least" who are happiest in an A.

 

The happiest ones are those who love the most and (this is key) are LOVED BACK EQUALLY, IF NOT MORE.

 

The unhappy threads we see are from OW who feel they weren't loved back in the way they wanted to be loved.

[NoIDidn't]

And considering it's a PUBLIC forum that has NEVER been known to be a place to celebrate illicit affairs in and of themselves why do you insist on trying to make it so? And then get defensive when you find (repeatedly) that it isn't?

 

Isn't that an interesting phenomenon?

[donnamaybe]

There is plenty of lying in extramarital affairs; I guess the piece that I find the most difficult to stomach is the part where the "back door woman" is so profoundly investing in lying to herself.

 

Or, maybe it's the part where some of the "others" seem to take gleeful pride in their role in betraying another unaware human being.

Yep. That's pretty much it for me too. Especially with all this "Oh, yeah, it's true love. I know it because he told me. Don't let the bitter people get you down." And all this being said to starry eyed young women who are often in their first months of an A, being misled that A's lead to their happy ever after when we have all read the stories on LS and know the undeniable truth that it's VERY rare indeed.

[donnamaybe]

Loved back equally? Really? A man who refuses to give up his wife?

[Mimolicious]

You don't sound angry or bitter to me at all. Must be all the kisses you get! Proving my theory: happy people are happy for others....

 

 

:confused::confused: Maybe they are on the wrong cheeks? Maybe on the wrong lips? (the kisses, I mean) :confused::confused: But if so, those make you feel all "warm and fuzzy" inside. No comprendo...

[BenThereDunThat]

Isn't that an interesting phenomenon?

 

Very interesting. I find it hard to believe that anyone is really that hard-headed. Which leads me to conclude they're just trying to stir everyone up.

 

Sad thing is, it pretty much always works.

[NoIDidn't]

As an OW, I agree that it was a very self-centered love, for both of us. Oh, we didn't realize it at the time. We had loved each other all our lives, he asked me to be his wife when we were 5! We always thought we'd be together, forced apart as teens. And when he called me three years ago next month, devastated after catching his W in yet another PA, his life a shambles, what did I do?

 

Did I encourage him to FACE his problems? DID I encourage him to CONFRONT, to GET COUNSEL, to stay strong and DEAL WITH the issues wrecking his life? DID I spend time thinking about what would be BEST for HIM? What would make HIM the happiest, in the long run? Did I stop and think for one minute what his many years of marriage, and their 4 grown children they had together might mean to him? Did I pray for him to have wisdom? Did I even consider giving him space to sort things out? Did I think about what might cause him shame, or what might help him do what he needed to do, while still feeling like a man of integrity?

 

Did I spend one minute considering what would be best for him?

 

HELL, NO! All I could think was, "AT LAST! HE'S COME BACK TO ME! NOW WE CAN BE TOGETHER!"

 

Our "love" was so amazing, I didn't want to give it up, more than I never wanted to give anything up. But it was selfish and soul-destroying for both of us.

 

Well, maybe I spent a minute thinking that I was so much better for him than that witch he married. But I didn't fully consider his feelings, his needs, his self-esteem or self-respect --- nor did I consider mine. I couldn't even think long term about what he might really want, or the least painful and best way for him to deal with the problems in his marriage.

 

I couldn't think about what I was doing to myself. No, the stolen moments, and the incredible LOOOOOVE we had for each other made it all worth it. At the moment.

 

Long-term, I AM ASHAMED. I am ashamed of my choices, I am ashamed of the way I encouranged him to act, the way I didn't help him, like a true friend should, to make the choices that would truly be best for HIM, based on HIS CORE FEELINGS AND BELIEFS.

 

Oh, sure, I still think I am the better woman. I know I am. But that doesn't mean that HE is ready to throw away all he and his W have together. And that it caused him shame to be in an affair. I didn't understand or consider the intricacies of their relationship together.

 

I WANTED WHAT I WANTED, AND I WENT FOR IT, AND IT HURT BOTH OF US.

 

Believe me, LB, I've been here. Caught up in the feelings instead of looking at the long-term.

 

I hope you give up the shame that you mention a lot in your posts. It will only serve to make you angry with yourself and blame yourself for something you didn't do alone.

 

Remember, he did the same as you, and he likely justified his actions based on his W's as well.

 

Don't destroy yourself in an effort to redeem yourself.

[AngeletteX]

Coming from a very FMM, you are the one who is wrong in my opinion. It was only hurried, fumbling s-e-x. Never to be compared to making love with my DW. You may not like that, but in my situation, it was the truth.

 

Well, that was YOUR truth about YOUR affair. Not sure why you would write "you may not like that" because who am I to argue about your experiences?

 

But if that's what it was (just hurried, fumbled sex), no wonder you regret having the A. That's no reason to jeporadize your M over "just" sex, IMO. Should've just paid for it, ya know?

[Mimolicious]

Not to mention the inlaws, who may not be so welcoming of an OW into the family. The stress that causes to the relationship must be considered as well. YMMV.

 

You must have been posting when I edited...In reference to what you were speaking to:

Now I can see how being an OW can be very hard. And a thread such as this is something to cling on to. It makes me sad that they don't have more to cling to.

 

 

Let's go ask my xH and his Boo, since she can't never meet his family nor my kids... Hey, but people gotta live with their choices, even with the very poor ones!!!

[AngeletteX]

Speaking of stolen moments... how about those stolen moments away from the kids. Ya know, those kids he can't leave his marriage for? How do you reconcile that?

 

I repeat: you know nothing about my situation. Except for the fact that I love him and I'm happy. And I have nothing to reconcile at this point.

[Ladyblue]

Okay, this just makes the poster sound jealous, bitter (yes, BITTER) and terribly mean spirited.

 

The "joys" of being a person who's lied to and betrayed? I don't think anyone around here thinks that is a joyous role.

 

I will tell you what I think bothers me about some of the "OW" posts.

 

There are a few of the "unapologetic" who don't make my skin crawl at all. I don't think it's "okay" to carry on with somebody's spouse. I would like promises to be kept, and the romantic dream of marriage to be able to be real. I would like my "sisters" to agree to some kind of a code involving hands off of another woman's mate. But, at least if you are going to do it, I appreciate the attitude that says, "I'm doing what I want to do, it pleases me, it works for me, f*** y'all."

 

There have always been "mistresses," there has always been infidelity, and there have always been some cases where the mistress and the unfaithful man go on to live happily as a couple.

 

What DOES make my skin crawl, really badly, is the "true love, lost love, rekindled love, soul soul soul soul soulmate" talk that a different style of the "unapologetic" invariably use. Their affair partner NEVER has sex with his wife. He would NEVER mess around with yet another woman. He IS going to leave his wife for her ... he hasn't yet for two, five, ten years, but he's gonna. Because, it's rekindled soulmate lost love.

 

The magic Cinderella fantasy of romantic love in marriage is difficult enough to reconcile with the reality of sharing ones life with another. Applying the same BS to a "side" relationship is ... more than annoying, and profoundly dishonest.

 

There is plenty of lying in extramarital affairs; I guess the piece that I find the most difficult to stomach is the part where the "back door woman" is so profoundly investing in lying to herself.

 

Or, maybe it's the part where some of the "others" seem to take gleeful pride in their role in betraying another unaware human being.

 

Yes, and that makes it even hard when the soul mate long lost love realizes that's what she's doing to keep hanging on to promises that never gonna happen.

[donnamaybe]

I guess when one has absolutely no expectations (and, let's face it - if someone knows they are sharing someone with another, they must have VERY low expectations, if any) they are very easy to please.

[woinlove]

Isn't love important to you?

 

And I started my thread as a counterpoint to what normally gets tossed around here - that within an A the feelings are *not* love, it's just a fantasy and *not* real, etc.

 

 

 

I DISAGREE. It's not the ones who "love the least" who are happiest in an A.

 

The happiest ones are those who love the most and (this is key) are LOVED BACK EQUALLY, IF NOT MORE.

 

The unhappy threads we see are from OW who feel they weren't loved back in the way they wanted to be loved.

 

Love is important to me, but it is not important to an affair. One can have a "successful" affair - by which I mean both people are happy and getting what they want from the affair - without any love. In fact, these are often the most successful affairs (where I'm ignoring the BS for this definition of successful - using only the happiness of the 2 people involved as a measure of "success".) It is a rare person who doesn't want to share their life with the person they love the most. For that rare person, they might be completely satisfied with an affair, too, just like the ones who don't mix love and affairs are.

 

What is your preference? Do you prefer to be in a secret affair with the man you love, while he remains married to another woman, rather than sharing your life openly with the man you love?

[Owl]

Very interesting. I find it hard to believe that anyone is really that hard-headed. Which leads me to conclude they're just trying to stir everyone up.

Sad thing is, it pretty much always works.

 

Precisely.

 

Two threads, both aimed at insulting or attempting to discount a specific group of posters on this forum.

 

There's one goal...one "agenda" if you will here, and it has nothing to do with focusing on the positives in anyone's relationship.

[worlybear]

Just wondering.... Have you or MM got kids?

[Ladyblue]

Possibly in some cases, but any MM who has normal human feelings and conscience also goes through some emotional turmoil. He might feel torn, if he develops feelings for OW, guilty towards W, stressed and unable to make a decision and stick to it.

 

Not such a fun place to be.

 

I don't believe that all MM are unfeeling psychopats.

 

Oh the joys of being a BS.

 

Nevermind your H spends intimate moments with another woman when you are told he's at work - he comes back to you in the end!

 

(Ermm, no, thank you.)

 

My experience, and what I read here a lot on LS, is that the man waffles back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

 

How can you say, "Ermm, no, thank you," when the OW keeps taking him back, just as the W keeps taking him back?

 

How is it more demeaning for the W to keep taking her H back, than it is for the AP to keep letting him come back during their secret interludes?

 

I don't get that.

[AngeletteX]

And considering it's a PUBLIC forum that has NEVER been known to be a place to celebrate illicit affairs in and of themselves why do you insist on trying to make it so? And then get defensive when you find (repeatedly) that it isn't?

 

Mmmm.....are you saying that the OW/OM section of LS has "NEVER" been a place talk about A's? A place for OW/OM to talk? Life is filled with many different things - good, bad, wonderful, horrible - and like it or not, what is being spoken about (the original point of this thread) is a part of it.

 

I'm not trying to insist on "making it so" - ONE THREAD out of thousands that talks about the incredible love that some people share in an A is....celebrating?

[AngeletteX]

Question for OW:

 

How helpful was the beginning of this thread? You know, where posters posted how great the MM made them feel and what they loved about him?

 

Did it make you feel better or worse about being in an affair? Did it make you long for him more or just be grateful for those fleeting moments?

 

Or did you just use your happiness and those moments that you had to intentionally hurt those that would disagree with your reports?

 

I repeat: the original point of this thread was to counter balance all the negativity that I have read.

 

I suggest if you find this thread distasteful or "hurtful" in anyway, it's very easy to ignore it and not read it.

[Snowflower]

Oh, yeah. And THEN he gets up and goes home to his wife! As I'm sitting here three years later, hurting, and missing the jackass, please remind me what's wonderful about that?

 

And while I'm here, let me just add that yes, I'm angry AND BITTER. Thanks a lot, sister, for making me feel there's something wrong with ME because I feel bitter. Just what am I supposed to feel, when he has promised me the rest of our lives, when he has acted accordingly, and when he still picked his wife?

 

Hell, yeah, I'm bitter. WTF am I supposed to be?

 

Ladyblue, first of all, I'm sorry for the pain you have experienced. I really and truly mean that. (((hugs)))

 

It is very interesting to me that none of the resident posters here on this board tried to help you or respond to this post. I am sorry that you aren't getting the support you need from those who have been in a similar situation as an OW. After all, this is what this board is for.

 

As it is, you do have support from me, a bitter fBW. I am sorry for your heartbreak and the fact that it seems like your xMM was someone you had considered a friend all your life who let you down so badly. I wish you peace and happiness.

[NoIDidn't]

What is your preference? Do you prefer to be in a secret affair with the man you love, while he remains married to another woman, rather than sharing your life openly with the man you love?

 

Wo..

 

The problem with this question is that the OPs almost always come back with the answer that the MM is NOT "committed" to their spouse if they are cheating with them.

 

What they fail to see is that as long as the MM continues to return nightly to their spouse, financially assist them, and share their lives (however limited in their minds) with them, that this IS the commitment.

 

The MP might be undermining the marital commitment but its still there so long as they are married. And that's what the OPs miss/ignore.

[NoIDidn't]

Question for OW:

 

How helpful was the beginning of this thread? You know, where posters posted how great the MM made them feel and what they loved about him?

 

Did it make you feel better or worse about being in an affair? Did it make you long for him more or just be grateful for those fleeting moments?

 

Or did you just use your happiness and those moments that you had to intentionally hurt those that would disagree with your reports?

[Mimolicious]

This is actually a pretty good argument for legalizing polygamy in the US

 

The OW reacted the way she did because she knew hers was not a "protected" position. That she could lose everything she thought the A gave her without so much as a word from him if/when he no longer desired her. And from what you posted, that's exactly what happened.

 

And so sad too.

 

I don't think any OW is willing to share with an OOW. Most justify their affairs by saying something is wrong with the W, and that's why he cheats on her with them. But they refuse to extend that same logic to themselves if he also has OOW. In that case, they say something is wrong with the MM, because they refuse to accept the same partial responsibility for the cheating that they demand a W do. Oh no!!!

 

 

The bolded- Let's be for real... in that case, there is something def wrong with the MM. That shouldn't even be an argument. I do get what you are saying and I also agree, but that's already psyche issues.