I'd rather have a cheating spouse then one who suggested an open marriage....

December 22, 2010

You could ask “would I rather be stabbed with knives and be blissfully unaware or poked with pins and feel it?” I would answer “stabbed with knives and enjoying it please.”

The reality is a different story. You will feel the effects of being cheated on. Being in an open relationship is a choice. Being lied to and having your trust betrayed is just another nasty reality to deal with nothing blissful about it.

December 22, 2010

To ME, whether I ws cheated on or my partner suggested an open relationship,to me I would feel the message that was being sent was I wasn't good enough, period. It would be a blow to myself.

December 22, 2010

The crushing realization that your partner tells you don't satisfy her/him "enough" and they want more and on a consistent basis..... Can there really be anything more crushing to the ego? Sorry as per the OP, this to me in at least my view is worse then a one nighter spurred by alcohol while on a business trip....

As per the title you want that I hilighted, not sure what you are trying to say. I just gave a sad scenario that is unpalatable in both cases. It has nothing to do with an unfulfilling marriage. I'd go as far as to say it is an unfulfilling marriage to the the spouse who wants the "open marriage" and is told no. A fling or a one-nighter as unseemly as it is, can be just that a one nighter, a mistake (maybe many). An "open relationship" is a choice that can present itself every single day and some partners (non-spouse) are long-term.

Yes, there is something more crushing to the ego than that realization... STAYING IN THAT RELATIONSHIP if you're unwilling to give that want to your spouse. It would hurt both of your egos-- you always thinking that an open marriage is really what your spouse wants, and your spouse feeling bad for wanting something that you can't give him/her. Thus, the unfulfilling marriage. For you to feel okay for your spouse to be unfulfilled when you say no as long as you're "together" is very selfish. Being okay with being cheated on with the excuse of alcohol means that you're okay with being cheated on, period. I'm sorry, but I've been intoxicated on many levels and no matter what, there is always self-control. The people who cheat because they're drunk as bull****ting you. They always know what they're doing.

Ultimately, I wouldn't be devastated if I were told by my significant other that he wants to do something that I definitely don't want to be a part of. There's enough self esteem in me to say "no, I don't want an open relationship, and since you do we should just break up." Is breaking up the most horrible thing in the world for you? You should value yourself more. A person who cheats on you doesn't value you at all.

December 22, 2010

Hmm, to be lied to or to be told the truth to... it's so difficult to choose. /sarcasm

Honestly, if I were not into the whole open marriage thing, I would still appreciate the fact the my significant other gave me a choice to leave the relationship before he acted up on his want to have sex or to be intimate with another person.

Same here, even if I had a closed mono marriage I would rather he talk to me than lie and cheat. That not only hurts but is disrespectful. At least if they ask they are being respectful.

December 22, 2010

I would rather the open marriage conversation, and have had it with my spouse. Its naive to think that marriage means that a person is no longer curious about others, or even to take the conversation to mean that the spouse is not satisfied by the spouse. Sounds really insecure. But I will concede that I don't think that anyone is totally satisfied by only sex with their spouse if they are honest with themselves. Drives don't always match up. Tastes often vary. On and on. It doesn't have to be soul crushing to find out the honest truth that you aren't all that and a bag of chips in the sack. One can use that information to get better. Not sulk.

I think the open marriage conversation can be had without ever leading to actually trying it out or divorce, as said immediately here. If the partners are honest in the conversation, it can open the door to new sexual experiences, as that is likely what the spouse is really asking for.

And it would be awkward to try those new ideas, but likely bonding as they fumbled their way through it.

There is so much all-or-nothing thinking going on with this conversation when that may not have been the point.

December 22, 2010

open up fantasies or an improved sex life, by saying they want to have sex with others???? C'mon there has to be a better way. Of course I concede there are better looking, and people better in bed then me (being honest), and there is nothing wrong with being turned on by others or as has not been mentioned a long time on LS, the dreaded porn issue (use of)...... But if the way to get attention is to suggest an "open marriage", sorry that is one hell of a leap.......

Yep I agree very few are 100% satisfied by sex with their spouse, but again that is not the point.

December 22, 2010

After all this talk it dawned on me..... Being blissfully ignorant of a spouse who cheated on me every once in a while on a business trip or a night out (for sex not an EA), to me is much more palpable then a spouse who asks for an "open relationship", which says it straight to my face she'd like to screw other people.....

Comments?????

oh I dunno. thats like saying, I'd rather someone cut off both my legs rather than my arms.

how bout I'd rather have neither?

December 22, 2010

open up fantasies or an improved sex life, by saying they want to have sex with others???? C'mon there has to be a better way. Of course I concede there are better looking, and people better in bed then me (being honest), and there is nothing wrong with being turned on by others or as has not been mentioned a long time on LS, the dreaded porn issue (use of)...... But if the way to get attention is to suggest an "open marriage", sorry that is one hell of a leap.......

Yep I agree very few are 100% satisfied by sex with their spouse, but again that is not the point.

Umm.. maybe that's why the idea of an open marriage is unthinkable to you. You have deep-seated insecurities about yourself. That's why you would rather be a fool in your spouse's eyes as long as you're ignorant of it. That's why you immediately think that if your spouse speaks on this want, it's automatically because you're not good enough. Don't you think that if your partner really though that you weren't good enough, they would have already left you? At least there's the respect of telling you the truth about wanting an open marriage, so you can make the decision to go with it or not.

If you're not into the open marriage thing, maybe you shouldn't think of it as you not being enough for your spouse, think of it as your spouse not giving you what you want. So you should move on. Don't feel so bad about yourself.

December 22, 2010

Umm.. maybe that's why the idea of an open marriage is unthinkable to you. You have deep-seated insecurities about yourself. That's why you would rather be a fool in your spouse's eyes as long as you're ignorant of it. That's why you immediately think that if your spouse speaks on this want, it's automatically because you're not good enough. Don't you think that if your partner really though that you weren't good enough, they would have already left you? At least there's the respect of telling you the truth about wanting an open marriage, so you can make the decision to go with it or not.

If you're not into the open marriage thing, maybe you shouldn't think of it as you not being enough for your spouse, think of it as your spouse not giving you what you want. So you should move on. Don't feel so bad about yourself.

but you are twisting it too..... To some the idea of an "open marriage" is finding someone else to have mind blowing sex (or in some cases, more varied or kinky sex without the emotional attachment), or someone better looking, bigger or yep...... much better..... Oh yea, then add the idea an EA can develop or that he/she is more successful too is frightening.....

Scares the hell out of me......

BTW read this earlier thread......

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t256547/

and just now it comes out they are not having anywhere near enough sex for his liking as it is (2-3X's/mth).....

December 22, 2010

but you are twisting it too..... To some the idea of an "open marriage" is finding someone else to have mind blowing sex (or in some cases, more varied or kinky sex without the emotional attachment), or someone better looking, bigger or yep...... much better..... Oh yea, then add the idea an EA can develop or that he/she is more successful too is frightening.....

Scares the hell out of me......

BTW read this earlier thread......

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t256547/

and just now it comes out they are not having anywhere near enough sex for his liking as it is (2-3X's/mth).....

Yes, to some, that is their idea. The same can be said to some people who get married in a closed marriage. There are different reasons why people get married, period. I don't believe that an open marriage is all about getting what their partner can't provide for them. Honestly, if you think about it, they're providing to each other more than a closed relationship does. Because this is not a random **** at the truck stop, it's within their relationship's boundaries, and everything has to be agreed upon. I did read that thread, and sad to say that that is not the ideal way to start an open marriage. The woman clearly comes from a selfish place, and the man needs to re-evaluate his relationship with her. It's a good thing that she told her about her wants, now he can formulate a plan of action that will result in his happiness. Although some open marriages start like that, I don't think that's how all open marriages are. Just like how some closed marriages start from insecurities, and hoping to change each other. No relationship thrives on a poor foundation. So if an open marriage is based on honesty, I don't see what's wrong with it.

December 23, 2010

open up fantasies or an improved sex life, by saying they want to have sex with others???? C'mon there has to be a better way.

Of course there are better ways, but you've structured this thread - and enforced it repeatedly - that it's an "either-or" discussion between two narrowly specified choices: secret affairs OR open marriage discussion.

You've forced participants to choose one or the other, and then when they pick the one you don't agree with, you say "C'mon, there has to be a better way." Yeah, but your multiple choice OP didn't offer any of those other options...

Edited December 23, 2010 by Trimmer

December 23, 2010

I still think that the conversation doesn't mean that a decision is going to be made to open the marriage. Its just a conversation regardless of how badly one spouse may seem to want it.

Its not a conversation that's settled the first couple of times. If the couple if open to it, it takes lots of negotiating and figuring out what is and isn't acceptable. In the end, they may find that they just opened better communication between them.

Sometimes we have to put our preconceived notions and insecurities aside to really hear our spouses. I think it takes an incredibly fragile ego (big or not) to be afraid of all the negative outcomes without considering the possible positives. Things aren't as bad when you take fear of the bad out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think an open marriage is for me. But I'm not closed to talking about it. And, as has been said in this thread and in the others right now, a lot of open couples just like having the option while never exercising it.

I happen to think that in a truly open marriage, where the communication is as open as the marriage is, there won't likely be a lot of leaving. The stats bear this out. There is a 5% divorce rate among open marriages and swingers (I know its not the same, but similar in the minds of many because of the multiple sex partners aspect). Who would give up a partner that allows them to freely (within reason) have sex with others and even encourages it?

December 23, 2010

You're all so dang vanilla. (and not very open minded)

Millions of couples are swingers and have very happy lives. Just because some of you don't want an OR doesn't mean they can't work for others.

Does everyone have to conform to your concept of a loving relationship? Monogamy is not the only option.

Yes having an honest discussion of ones desires and fantasies with ones SO I would think be preferable to secrets, lies and cheating. What kind of a relationship can you have with a partner if they can't discuss their most intimate sexual desires and fantasies with you without fear? Not a very intimate one. Real intimacy is bearing our souls to one another -- even our most dark perverted parts with out fear of reprisal.

December 23, 2010

You're all so dang vanilla. (and not very open minded)

Millions of couples are swingers and have very happy lives. Just because some of you don't want an OR doesn't mean they can't work for others.

Does everyone have to conform to your concept of a loving relationship? Monogamy is not the only option.

Yes having an honest discussion of ones desires and fantasies with ones SO I would think be preferable to secrets, lies and cheating. What kind of a relationship can you have with a partner if they can't discuss their most intimate sexual desires and fantasies with you without fear? Not a very intimate one. Real intimacy is bearing our souls to one another -- even our most dark perverted parts with out fear of reprisal.

The point was sure we can all point out and lust after other people or imagine sex with someone else. However it is a conscious choice not to put yourself in a position or to do it.

My point is that there have been some serious discussions on this site of late, almost all from men, who's spouse/so have brought up the subject. When a man brings it up, we immediately call him a jerk, over-sexed kid wanting permission to cheat. You can dress it up any way you want, but that is the immediate reaction from the vast majority here. Sorry, but it is about sex in my eyes and the men in these threads where the spouse has suggested it, all explain they are for the most part not even getting enough sex as it is at home, when the spouse suggests this.

The point is this is, yes and honest discussion, but to me it is destructive as it says there is something missing in this primary relationship, or something you don't want to explore with your spouse that can only be met with another person.

Add to that if they want to also have an EA.

BTW, how can one have a spouse, a family, a successful career, hobby's and activities and then find time for an "open relationship"????

December 23, 2010

I agree with FiC and don't really understand how this stirs up such incredible feelings and why we can't to a greater extent live and let die rather than insist on imposing our own preferences on people. I do get slightly annoyed with the whole 'false consciousness' discourse that goes 'you can't possibly be happy even if you insist that you are because by my definition it is completely impossible for you to be happy in your current arrangement'. That's a rather huge assumption in the context of an internet forum and strangers one has never met and doesn't know, IMO. In terms of furthering my own understanding ('understanding' here understood in the academic sense of 'understanding a phenomenon' as opposed to 'accepting'), I find a less bombastic position and line of inquiry much more satisfactory (although I'm also guilty of not always managing to adhere to that).

Monogamy is one cultural norm for organising relationships out of many others. I wouldn't want to go poly but I have much more respect for people who do so honestly and in mutual agreement than for those who cheat on their partners behind their backs. I think there have been plenty of convincing arguments on this site why it's not necessarily a sign of something missing in a relationship. Going poly in mutual agreement is a very different kind of phenomenon that someone in a monogamous marriage asking their spouse for 'permission' to have sex with another person they happen to desire because their own marriage has gone stale.

As for people finding time: I don't think that's particularly mysterious. Most people find time for what they want to prioritise in life. Maybe they let go of a hobby instead.

December 23, 2010

I agree with FiC and don't really understand how this stirs up such incredible feelings and why we can't to a greater extent live and let die rather than insist on imposing our own preferences on people. I do get slightly annoyed with the whole 'false consciousness' discourse that goes 'you can't possibly be happy even if you insist that you are because by my definition it is completely impossible for you to be happy in your current arrangement'. That's a rather huge assumption in the context of an internet forum and strangers one has never met and doesn't know, IMO. In terms of furthering my own understanding ('understanding' here understood in the academic sense of 'understanding a phenomenon' as opposed to 'accepting'), I find a less bombastic position and line of inquiry much more satisfactory (although I'm also guilty of not always managing to adhere to that).

Monogamy is one cultural norm for organising relationships out of many others. I wouldn't want to go poly but I have much more respect for people who do so honestly and in mutual agreement than for those who cheat on their partners behind their backs. I think there have been plenty of convincing arguments on this site why it's not necessarily a sign of something missing in a relationship. Going poly in mutual agreement is a very different kind of phenomenon that someone in a monogamous marriage asking their spouse for 'permission' to have sex with another person they happen to desire because their own marriage has gone stale.

As for people finding time: I don't think that's particularly mysterious. Most people find time for what they want to prioritise in life. Maybe they let go of a hobby instead.

will tell you their spouse can't find time to spend 30 minutes having sex, much less a second relationship....:lmao:

Fair points..... I just was opening a discussion where I stated that yes the suggestion by my spouse of an "Open Relationship" would be deeply hurtful, if it was pursued seriously and I saw it as a yearning she had, maybe more so then occasionally cheating (and yes I made indicated parameters, such as traveling and separated by distance and no EA) and me not knowing.

Now of course my view (for those who know me from 1,300 odd posts) could point out it is due to my pre-occupation about what is enough sex in a marriage and complaining that I want more......

I apologize for overusing the word POINT in my above post.

December 23, 2010

will tell you their spouse can't find time to spend 30 minutes having sex, much less a second relationship....:lmao:

Fair points..... I just was opening a discussion where I stated that yes the suggestion by my spouse of an "Open Relationship" would be deeply hurtful, if it was pursued seriously and I saw it as a yearning she had, maybe more so then occasionally cheating (and yes I made indicated parameters, such as traveling and separated by distance and no EA) and me not knowing.

Now of course my view (for those who know me from 1,300 odd posts) could point out it is due to my pre-occupation about what is enough sex in a marriage and complaining that I want more......

I apologize for overusing the word POINT in my above post.

Sure, I get all three of those POINTS!

December 29, 2010

So...

your wife is in an accident, realizes she is never going to have the sex drive you do, has cancer whatever and says to you...

"look why don't we have an open marriage so you can get laid?"

An open marriage would also mean that you would get to have sex with other people too. It could be unselfish on a spouse's part sometimes.

I get however that you mean

1. cheating sometimes with absolutely no negative consequences or awareness on your part

versus

2. continuously and maliciously (pointing out your flaws I suppose?) bringing up open marriage because she/he is not fulfilled sexually when you have made it clear that you think this is absolutely not an option for you.

December 29, 2010

So...
your wife is in an accident, realizes she is never going to have the sex drive you do, has cancer whatever and says to you...

"look why don't we have an open marriage so you can get laid?"

An open marriage would also mean that you would get to have sex with other people too. It could be unselfish on a spouse's part sometimes.

I get however that you mean
1. cheating sometimes with absolutely no negative consequences or awareness on your part
versus
2. continuously and maliciously (pointing out your flaws I suppose?) bringing up open marriage because she/he is not fulfilled sexually when you have made it clear that you think this is absolutely not an option for you.

Of course there are exceptions, and here the spouse who can not have sex opens the conversation.

But I always come from a position of average sex drive and needs.

As for agreeing with my point, thanks (few and far between;))...... But point 2 simply has to be saying you want sex with others to get me spinning out of control wondering whether I am doing everything sexually or am everything in my spouse's eyes. I am not delusional and am not perfect (close but not all the way there;)) so yes I would be insanely jealous and hurt.

December 29, 2010

I've begun to notice a disturbing trend amongst many people in this site,the trend of judging others based on your personal opinions...

this world is a big place and while some people may love lobster and sushi other people absolutely hate seafood...it doesn't make people wrong for hating seafood but certainly someone who enjoys seafood isn't wrong either...my point is this

if someone says "my spouse and I enjoy an open marriage and it works for us" who are others to say "that is NO marriage" or "that is just wrong and I'd run for a lawyer" etc...

I believe everyone over 18 yrs of age is entitled to any kind of sex life they desire with a willing participant and no one has the right to judge...

all that being said...I think the point of view of it is better for someone to cheat behind someone's back than even discuss an open marriage is ridiculous...for two reasons

1)if someone is cheating it is being a secret thing...thus,if feelings develop there is a darn good chance the cheating spouse is going to leave.Where there is no communication there is danger.

2)In the right kind of open marriage,both partners benefit. Not only are both people's sexual needs being met BUT if the communication is there,you can get 10X the thrill by discussing your new experiences with your spouse or having them discuss it with you. You can learn new things and it benefits everyone,PLUS if there is continuous discussion the risk of someone leaving is very small. And as a final bonus,what spouse in their right mind would even want to leave someone if they have total freedom.

in conclusion...

the poster's question wasn't even 'should I choose a cheating spouse or an open marriage' the question was 'a cheating spouse or discussing an open marriage'

that's an obvious choice because if someone is cheating you don't have any say whatsoever but if it is simply a discussion of open marriage you have the right to say 'no' but at least there is honesty all around

that's my 2 cents

have a great day

and God bless,

Donutman

December 29, 2010

I've begun to notice a disturbing trend amongst many people in this site,the trend of judging others based on your personal opinions...
this world is a big place and while some people may love lobster and sushi other people absolutely hate seafood...it doesn't make people wrong for hating seafood but certainly someone who enjoys seafood isn't wrong either

please tell me you just didn't try to compare tastes in food to betrayal and not "forsaking all others"

December 29, 2010

Of course there are exceptions, and here the spouse who can not have sex opens the conversation.

But I always come from a position of average sex drive and needs.

As for agreeing with my point, thanks (few and far between;))...... But point 2 simply has to be saying you want sex with others to get me spinning out of control wondering whether I am doing everything sexually or am everything in my spouse's eyes. I am not delusional and am not perfect (close but not all the way there;)) so yes I would be insanely jealous and hurt.

well, lol, I think I should point out that I as I am IN an open marriage, I am NOT agreeing with you per se as understanding that, for you, it is impossible not to be more hurt by 2 than 1.

Most of us posting so far would be more hurt by 1 than the mere discussion, even cruelly stated, of 2.

December 29, 2010

well, lol, I think I should point out that I as I am IN an open marriage, I am NOT agreeing with you per se as understanding that, for you, it is impossible not to be more hurt by 2 than 1.
Most of us posting so far would be more hurt by 1 than the mere discussion, even cruelly stated, of 2.

what I have difficulty understanding is why more would not be incredibly jealous, taken aback and questioning everything particularly about sex, looks, technique, skill, size..... that result from being presented option 2. And please no "It's not you, it's me" speeches. Now if that is what you want and live that lifestyle, yes I don't get it, but that is not my problem and good for you......

December 29, 2010

what I have difficulty understanding is why more would not be incredibly jealous, taken aback and questioning everything particularly about sex, looks, technique, skill, size..... that result from being presented option 2. And please no "It's not you, it's me" speeches. Now if that is what you want and live that lifestyle, yes I don't get it, but that is not my problem and good for you......

It's not that difficult to understand. It's instinct-- if something is causing you pain, the reflex is to move away from the thing causing you pain. If you are so deathly afraid of not being good enough to your spouse, you have the choice to remove yourself from the marriage. It's that simple. At least if you have self-esteem, it is. Would you have any self-esteem to up and leave if choice #2 happened to you? Or will you subject yourself to stay in that marriage, feeling like **** about yourself and everything that you're lacking?

In choice #1, you're obviously not good enough for your husband anyway, that's why he's cheating on you even if you didn't know about it. But you don't have the choice to do anything about him feeling that you're not good enough. You can't even try to better your marriage because he's lying to you about it. You can't even leave him because you're ignorant to the fact that he's cheating on you.

December 29, 2010

See, here's a realization for you. If you're okay being cheated on as long as you don't find out over being told that your husband wants an open marriage, it doesn't mean that you're afraid of not being good enough.

Like I stated before, if he were cheating on you, YOU ALREADY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. What you're really afraid of is not being able to cope with that reality. So just take that in for a second. Based on this thread and everything you said here, you really don't care that you're your husband's everything, you just care about the illusion that you are.

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I'd rather have a cheating spouse then one who suggested an open marriage....

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