Author 2themoon&back Posted December 23, 2010 Author Posted December 23, 2010 This is really insightful 2TMAB... Please forgive yourself, as you are human...and guess what, this will not be the first mistake or error in judgement, and it's ok because we do learn. Your really good people and have a lot of good things to share that really help others. LS has really been blessed IMO lately with a lot of really cool people signing on...you do make a difference! It has been so long ago that I don't really remember that much about the A...I am dealing with the break up of me and him after his D. Pure, this “human” factor has been the key, not that I think I am not human, but my definition of it is ridiculous in a way, that I hold myself to an unrealistic standard and allow no slip or fall or “mistakes”. I do believe I learned this at a very young age and my religion has had a lot of influence on my perception as well. I am human and with flaws and big ones are just as forgivable as the small ones. I know I may sound pathetic in a way to say this but I know would not have even considered that my way of thinking needed an adjustment until someone on the outside showed me this was and is another option. You are as I have told you a cool person as well, and your kind heart always comes through on your post. I am sorry you are dealing with anything unpleasant I cannot imagine what kinds of things you may be dealing with; did you start a thread about it? I have no doubt that you will be successful; your heart is to kind not to be.
Author 2themoon&back Posted December 23, 2010 Author Posted December 23, 2010 I agree. I don't regret my actions, but if they hurt someone who was blameless in the situation (BS, etc.) I would feel remorse. I have no regrets now because I have learned and changed and grown. This is where I hope to be as well !
Author 2themoon&back Posted December 23, 2010 Author Posted December 23, 2010 Regret and remorse are different. I can regret not having kicked someone's face in that deserved it. But I can't have remorse that I DIDN'T do such a thing. I can regret I kicked his face in and I can have remorse that I kicked his face in but I can't have remorse that I didn't kick his face in. The score is regret 4 and remorse 3. Thank you for your wonderful analogue, it does put things in certain perspective as well as a smile on my face.
Spark1111 Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Spark, thank you for sharing and I am glad this is another level of understanding that we can share. I was wondering if I may ask how long have you been in MC, to come to this topic. I have been in IC, for what seems like forever (years) but on the topic of A ending since July and I struggle with this inside myself and have not even started to tap into forgiveness just trying to put words to my feelings and what is in my head. I do have true remorse but not as much so regret because I do want to believe that something better in me that will come from the choices I have made that shocked me to my core. We have been in MC for about 6 months, and it is not always comfortable. In MC the marriage is the client, so since no marriage is perfect, both parties can take a turn in the hot seat, so to speak. Plus, I've noticed that most of the attention in on my H, the fWS, and at times, my ego finds that a little hard to take. But since his infidelity is the issue that caused us to start MC, I can surely understand. But that is not the only issue discussed and it does provide valuable tools if both parties are committed to the process. As for IC, I too have attended and have learned that it can be time to graduate your counselor: If you are not making significant progress....well, you may have gleaned all you can from that particular counselor and it may be time to find another. They will never suggest that. That has to be up to the client to do. So think on that. You have had one knock after another reading your previous posts, so I am a little confused here..... Why all the self-blame? Why all the remorse? What specifically is causing you this pain? My H went through terrible self-loathing after his affair and it took a long time for him to forgive himself. Yet, that is a very necessary component to his and our healing. But you? Why is it hard to forgive yourself? It seems you have been victimized enough.
Spark1111 Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Forgot to add...This is our second attempt at MC. The first time I was not ready.....still way too angry and unsure if I wanted to stay married to him.
wheelwright Posted December 24, 2010 Posted December 24, 2010 I have been asked more than once about regretting my decisions on being involved in an A, and I have said before that though I do not regret that decision, I do have remorse. Regret to me indicates that I do not take any responsibility in my choice and that would be false, I knew what I was doing and did it anyway. Remorse says to me that I am sorry for my choices. I am wondering if anyone else sees a difference between the two? I feel there is a huge difference. Here is what I have found on this subject : Regret is a rational, intelligent and, on occasion, emotional reaction to some unexpected, unintended and often costly consequence of some event or action. Remorse, on the other hand takes on a bitter, deeper form that elicits much stronger personal and emotional reactions to personal guilt, societal shame, humiliation, resentment and often anger. While regret is amoral and concerned with good versus bad consequences, remorse has more to do with right versus wrong actions2. Feelings of remorse are often caused by actions that constitute serious and painful errors of judgment and often draws out powerful compulsions to fix the mistake(s) through personal change and sacrifice. http://www.perfectapology.com/regret.html So I would ask… what should I feel due to an A, regret or remorse? I rolled with remorse. I am trying very hard to find forgiveness for myself and my actions, and to try repair myself in some way so that I too can start to heal and move to a better place in my head and my life. What a beautiful post! For me - regret = I wish it hadn't happened remorse = I'm sorry for the wrong I think resolving things involves seeing this difference. Despite what people tell you, you only need one of the above to be sorry.
Author 2themoon&back Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 We have been in MC for about 6 months, and it is not always comfortable. In MC the marriage is the client, so since no marriage is perfect, both parties can take a turn in the hot seat, so to speak. Plus, I've noticed that most of the attention in on my H, the fWS, and at times, my ego finds that a little hard to take. But since his infidelity is the issue that caused us to start MC, I can surely understand. But that is not the only issue discussed and it does provide valuable tools if both parties are committed to the process. As for IC, I too have attended and have learned that it can be time to graduate your counselor: If you are not making significant progress....well, you may have gleaned all you can from that particular counselor and it may be time to find another. They will never suggest that. That has to be up to the client to do. So think on that. You have had one knock after another reading your previous posts, so I am a little confused here..... Why all the self-blame? Why all the remorse? What specifically is causing you this pain? My H went through terrible self-loathing after his affair and it took a long time for him to forgive himself. Yet, that is a very necessary component to his and our healing. But you? Why is it hard to forgive yourself? It seems you have been victimized enough. Spark, I wish I could sum it up in a sentence but I cannot. I have lived by the saying "If you’re not big enough to own it, then don't do it" and I know I do not know how to distribute responsibility evenly. I tend to think because I made choices and allowed people to do things that hurt me ....then everything is my "fault". I am trying to learn that forgiveness is more complicated then I have realized even for myself. I know how hard MC, I have been there and an ego can get banged up from time to time, and because of the issues you are dealing with I think everything feels so hyper sensitive and rightfully so. I find being honest is one of the hardest things for people to do and truth one of the hardest things to hear, even when we know we need it. I have been told I am honest to a fault...it makes people uncomfortable. I do admire your conviction to have faith in yourself and your H, and your M, to move forward. I do believe that it takes a certain type of M and persons involved for this to be successful and from your post you have the right recipe for this to be very successful. Thank you for being able to see both sides of the same coin, and for your kindness in your words. Sometimes here on LS, being the OW or OM, kindness is lost -----just persecution, but we were human beings before we were “cheaters” and we will be just that afterwards, so you being able to be kind to me in any way does not go unnoticed or unappreciated. YOU saying that I am entitled to any forgiveness gives me hope that it can be a reality and maybe that is all I need to have hope.
Author 2themoon&back Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 What a beautiful post! For me - regret = I wish it hadn't happened remorse = I'm sorry for the wrong I think resolving things involves seeing this difference. Despite what people tell you, you only need one of the above to be sorry. You are so right, it is hard not to listen to what people tell you when you are in a place of such self doubt. I am trying very hard to find that resolve.
OpenBook Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 For me, regret is "Oops I wish that hadn'tve happened" and remorse is "I really, really screwed that one up." There's a lot more self-blame in remorse. And I felt both, painfully, after my A with an MM. Took a long time to get over it. And the experience helped me avoid entering the same situation again, years later. (I recognized the signs of what was coming, both in myself and in others - and I knew what it would lead to.) I think there IS a good reason why we go through regrets & remorse. It's simply part of the experience. And experience makes us stronger and wiser. And unfortunately, sadder as well. But I think even that residual sadness makes us more skilled at milking the joy we find. We appreciate it and treasure it more!!
OpenBook Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 What a beautiful post! For me - regret = I wish it hadn't happened remorse = I'm sorry for the wrong Whoops! Looks like wheelwright beat me to it. Well said!
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