Jennie - an unapologetic OW

[jennie-jennie]

What you've described IMO is conflict avoidance, not split self. Regardless, since there is supposedly 817 reputable references, I wonder what was the prognosis was in these refrences? My guess is that the poor, poor WS stays in the A as long as they can- either until they get caught or the AP gets tired.

 

Again like Owl said, not much different that most of what we read here.

 

Probably because most long term extramarital relationships with deep emotional connection in fact are split self affairs. Duh.

[jennie-jennie]

In my time here, I have never seen you discourage an OW from either entering into or staying in an A. If you have, I would appreciate a reference to it.

 

You say that some of us provide cookie-cutter "get out" advice, but I've not seen anything different from you- it's always "stay until you want to leave, until the positives outweigh the negatives" (paraphrasing of course). Therefore, I am wondering under what circumstances you would actually advise an OW to terminate an A? Perhaps if she were being physically abused? What specific circumstances are dealbreakers for you, where you would not support an OW's desire to continue an A?

 

I never use the word "cookie-cutter" so I don't know where you got that from.

 

I know what it is to be in love, so I believe that for a woman to end a relationship she needs to be ready to do so. Thus it is not up to me to say whether she should end it or stay, I merely support the decision she makes.

 

If it looks bad to me, I will likely ask questions to make her consider whether her relationship really is good for her or not, thus respecting that she holds more knowledge than I do about her situation. As an example:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3150976&postcount=4

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3150979&postcount=5

[alexandria35]

I was in the relationship for four years before I read about the split self affair. Learning about the split self affair gave me peace of mind. It ended the constant struggle between my mind and my heart. It spoke my language. It described my reality. It fitted into my prior world view. It didn't make me stay with my MM, I was already staying. It changed my perspective, so I could be happier while staying with him.

 

I don't understand why learning about split self affairs gave you peace of mind. Even if the split self affair theory is true, what difference does it make? I mean there are psychological explanations for everyone's bad behavior but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. I spent seven years with a controlling man who had an explosive temper, trust issues and mood swings that would make my head spin. He wasn't like that for no reason. He had been abused in every possible way (sexual, physical, neglect) as a child and his behavior was textbook for someone who had grown up that way.

 

We all know that there are psychological reasons behind a persons behavior, but that doesn't change the here and now and it doesn't change the facts. My ex had great insight into the why's and wherefore's of his behavior. He was an extremely intelligent man but he hasn't changed at all. He doesn't have any reason to change, he is very good looking and charming so he will never be alone. There will always be some dumb woman (as I was for many years) willing to put up with him. So how does knowing that this is a split self affair change anything for you? How does it make the affair better or more right for you?

[2themoon&back]

I don't understand why learning about split self affairs gave you peace of mind. Even if the split self affair theory is true, what difference does it make? I mean there are psychological explanations for everyone's bad behavior but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. I spent seven years with a controlling man who had an explosive temper, trust issues and mood swings that would make my head spin. He wasn't like that for no reason. He had been abused in every possible way (sexual, physical, neglect) as a child and his behavior was textbook for someone who had grown up that way.

 

We all know that there are psychological reasons behind a persons behavior, but that doesn't change the here and now and it doesn't change the facts. My ex had great insight into the why's and wherefore's of his behavior. He was an extremely intelligent man but he hasn't changed at all. He doesn't have any reason to change, he is very good looking and charming so he will never be alone. There will always be some dumb woman (as I was for many years) willing to put up with him. So how does knowing that this is a split self affair change anything for you? How does it make the affair better or more right for you?

 

I can not speak for JJ and never would try to, but for me the "split self affair" validated me in a way that maybe will help me heal.

 

And if I had known about this during the A, I would have done things a lot differently.

[jthorne]

I can not speak for JJ and never would try to, but for me the "split self affair" validated me in a way that maybe will help me heal.

 

And if I had known about this during the A, I would have done things a lot differently.

I'm curious how it helps you heal? Does it make it more palatable to you that the "split self" allowed him to remain unaccountable for any of his actions? That his love for you (or MM's for j-j) was not enough for him to rise above his problems and actually seek help?

 

Sorry, I struggle to see how that is comforting in any way, but I am glad you've found something healing.

[Spark1111]

I'm curious how it helps you heal? Does it make it more palatable to you that the "split self" allowed him to remain unaccountable for any of his actions? That his love for you (or MM's for j-j) was not enough for him to rise above his problems and actually seek help?

 

Sorry, I struggle to see how that is comforting in any way, but I am glad you've found something healing.

 

Any theory can be healing to understand the "why" of a person who does not change their behavior for another.

 

But I am always realistic as I remember all those who grew up in similiar pain in childhood, who have suffered from depression, who DID NOT CHOOSE to have an affair to get unmet needs met outside of marriage.

 

And unfortunately, we once again come back to that dreaded word "CHOICE."

 

I too had an horrific childhood, a few bouts of depression, and took every step available to me to change and grow and heal. I am a respected member of my community, have raised successful children, and have never cheated.

 

So, if anyone coulda, shoulda, split themselves into multiple selves, why didn't I and the other 40 percent of abused kids?

 

Because I believe we have free will to change and to choose who we become as adults and to take accountability for all of our own actions.

 

I would not respect myself any other way, and do not respect others, who after the age of 25, have not figured out or still play the pity card as to why the cannot change their behavior.

[jennie-jennie]

Totally agree, but jennie believes in the split self because it supports her rationale for staying in the A.

 

So my question is this: should Emily Brown (and others if there really are others) come out tomorrow and say that she's/they've done further research and her split self theory is wrong, what would jennie's rationale be then?

 

The thing is I researched dysfunctional families already long ago as the SO of an alcoholic, and the split self affair is simply another version of a dysfunctional family. Since I had personal knowledge of my MM's family of origin from the seventies when he was still living at his parents, I knew he was from a dysfunctional family too. In fact I had to tell him that, he hadn't realized it himself before I told him.

[jennie-jennie]

We all have a right to our own opinion and to voice it.

 

Yes, although it is interesting how often opinions about my situation are totally in conflict with what I have posted.

[jennie-jennie]

I think this is key too.

 

Right now, the benefits of staying in a relationship with him outweigh the negatives.

 

I think that the problem here is that most posters that don't understand Jennie's acceptance with the situation simply can't see how this could be the case.

 

Myself included in that, mind you.

 

The bottomline is that both Jennie and her MM are exactly where they want to be right now.

 

In an affair.

 

She has no expectation that it will change anytime soon (although she has hopes/expectations that 'someday' it will, but the exact when is both nebulous and unimportant to her). His expectations are even simpler...he's where he has choosen to be, and his actions indicate it's where he's going to remain for the indeterminate future. He's having needs satisified by both women and there's no pressure on him to change.

 

Most OW wouldn't accept this situation, nor can most other posters see where Jennie gets enough benefits from the situation to stay...but clearly, she does.

 

Yes, my MM and I are exactly where we want to be, in a relationship with each other.

[jthorne]

Yes, my MM and I are exactly where we want to be, in a relationship with each other.

How often do you two actually see each other (physically, not Skype) in this relationship?

[2themoon&back]

I'm curious how it helps you heal? Does it make it more palatable to you that the "split self" allowed him to remain unaccountable for any of his actions? That his love for you (or MM's for j-j) was not enough for him to rise above his problems and actually seek help?

 

Sorry, I struggle to see how that is comforting in any way, but I am glad you've found something healing.

 

I don’t agree that finding any information about something you can use to validate your understanding of a particular situation erases accountability.

I know (like spark said) everything is a choice.

 

Everyone is accountable for their choices; it does not matter why they choose it. As someone else told me the other day it is sometimes important to understand the “whys” to get to the “what now’s”, not to take away any accountability.

 

The split self theory just let me see some of the “maybe whys” and they suited me enough to help me cut some of the “Whys” loose and hopefully will give me enough peace in my head to move out of this “self hate” that I am feeling.

 

Any theory that will help me to do this is a good thing until I can do better for myself as you yourself said.

 

And as you also said maybe he cannot or know how to rise above himself to get the much needed, until he realizes that help is needed.

 

When I read that theory, (me looking for much needed help) it said something to me about me, as well about him. This being the helpful part for myself. I plan on asking my IC about it.

[jennie-jennie]

I worry about jennie because I think she has blind faith in her mm. IMO, blind faith in anyone is dangerous.

 

What part of me replying to you in another thread that I don't have blind faith in my MM do you not understand?

 

Perhaps........jennie likes things as they are more than she is letting on. The reason that I say that is because there were certain aspects of the relationship that I had with xmm (well before I found out the truth) that I did like. I liked not having to deal with him day in, day out, not having to wash his dirty undies and socks, not having to pick up after him, not having to cook for him, blah, blah, blah. I'll also say that I liked aspects of it because it was a long distance relationship. The excitment of seeing each other a couple of times a week, didn't leave time to get bored with each other. In other words not living a day to day life with someone does lend a little more excitement to a relationship if you like that sort of thing. Perhaps jennie likes that aspect of it more than she says so.

 

You're wrong. I have for many years and in two different relationships lived a day to day life with a man, and that is what I want to do again.

[jennie-jennie]

Bold...does Jennie need an out though? Personally I think the "Split Self" fits and explains a lot (it certainly did in my case), although I don't think Jennie really needs it to understand that she is in love with this man and wants to be with him no matter the cost. That is how I felt back in the day and had no clue about certain psych matters. I have always been interested in psychology, and had been to councelling a lot and read many self help books.. I just knew that I loved exDM and knew he was in a bad situation (which did play itself out).

 

I just love your posts, Pure! So true!

[jennie-jennie]

Owl, I'm not trying to speak for Jen, but what's wrong with trying to understand why someone is acting the way they are? Sometimes the anti-intellectualism on this forum really gets me - it's as if anybody who exercises a braincell is guilty of subverting Life As We Know It.

 

There is a big difference between understanding something and excusing it. IMO, unless you understand WHY something happens, you are less likely to be able to do anything about it, since you'll only be addressing symptoms and not the cause.

 

Exactly.

.

[jennie-jennie]

JJ, if nothing else you are entertaining.

 

Thanks!

[jwi71]

Yes, my MM and I are exactly where we want to be, in a relationship with each other.

 

Oh darling, you KNOW this isn't true.

 

You AREN'T where you want to be.

 

You are accepting what he offers which is NOT what you want.

 

In my book, and its not intended as an attack, its called settling.

 

Something I abhor for anyone.

[donnamaybe]

Truth is I still am not sure my ex really loved me. I am not even sure he is capable of loving anyone. I guess I believe he loved me as much as he is capable of.

 

My MM, on the other hand, shows his love for me consistently. There is no question about it. He makes me feel so loved all the time. He is so caring. He is crazy about me. :love:

 

Also, to compare these two men is not doable. One is a commitment phobic, the other is commitment obligated.

I still don't understand how you can come to a conclusion based on the actions of one person and come to a completely different conclusion based on that exact same (or actions indicative of being even more committed to the M) of a different person.

[Spark1111]

I don’t agree that finding any information about something you can use to validate your understanding of a particular situation erases accountability.

I know (like spark said) everything is a choice.

 

Everyone is accountable for their choices; it does not matter why they choose it. As someone else told me the other day it is sometimes important to understand the “whys” to get to the “what now’s”, not to take away any accountability.

 

The split self theory just let me see some of the “maybe whys” and they suited me enough to help me cut some of the “Whys” loose and hopefully will give me enough peace in my head to move out of this “self hate” that I am feeling.

 

Any theory that will help me to do this is a good thing until I can do better for myself as you yourself said.

 

And as you also said maybe he cannot or know how to rise above himself to get the much needed, until he realizes that help is needed.

 

When I read that theory, (me looking for much needed help) it said something to me about me, as well about him. This being the helpful part for myself. I plan on asking my IC about it.

 

 

I agree. Anything that promotes growth and healing is a good thing. Hats off to you!

 

What is somewhat more of a frustration is when theories are used as justifications, and I am not speaking of this thread, but in general, to excuse behavior.

 

Behavior identified and used as an excuse to continue the behavior, becomes one more crutch of enabling.

 

Behavior identified and used to promote positive growth, is a wonderful thing.

 

Yet, we all must live with the very real possibility that some people will never change. And that's life.

[jennie-jennie]

Exactly! Just like my silly example above where Tony would hold me accountable, this is exactly why I think "split self" is a load of . It lets the split self person get away with not being accountable for his actions.

 

Who wants someone who won't be accountable?

 

What you do is plant a seed in the mind of the MM. Now he's heard of the split self affair and knows IC is recommended. When he finally realizes he can not fix the situation himself, he already knows the next step to take.

 

It's like being a partner to an active alcoholic. You tell him about AA once. You plant the seed. Then he'll know what to do once he hits rock bottom.

[jthorne]

What you do is plant a seed in the mind of the MM. Now he's heard of the split self affair and knows IC is recommended. When he finally realizes he can not fix the situation himself, he already knows the next step to take.

 

It's like being a partner to an active alcoholic. You tell him about AA once. You plant the seed. Then he'll know what to do once he hits rock bottom.

How can he possibly hit rock bottom with they way things are now?

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie,

 

Question for you...and this is the thing that concerns me.

 

If there was a bad day, a day where absolutely nothing seems to go well (we all have those days)...would you feel safe posting on LS?

 

I don't know, pure. I know I did get support here the week my MM and I were NC for him to work on his marriage. I also know that telling of my MM's one-time occasion of sex with his wife in the last year and a half, has been repeatedly brought up again and again although I myself am done with it.

[jennie-jennie]

Could someone please tell me what this is a ROW?

 

Don't know if this has been answered already, but it means reformed other woman.

 

Definition of "reformed" from OneLook Dictionary Search:

"▸ adjective: caused to abandon an evil manner of living and follow a good one ('A reformed drunkard')"

[xxoo]

My MM, on the other hand, shows his love for me consistently. There is no question about it. He makes me feel so loved all the time. He is so caring. He is crazy about me. :love:

.

 

This may be true during the portion of his double-life that he is actively with you.

 

But when he is actively with his wife--he has betrayed you (had sex with her, breaking your agreement), minimized you (denied you when confronted), deprioritized your relationship (by remaining married).

 

Consistently?

[Dexter Morgan]

I had to think up a new thread title, since my first thread, named "Jennie's thread" was considered to be against TOS.

 

seeing as how your name is still in the title, how does that change anything?

 

again, you knew what you were doing when titling it unapologetic OW

[Spark1111]

Yes, my MM and I are exactly where we want to be, in a relationship with each other.

 

Ok, that's wonderful.

 

So, why the need to explain, or justify, or even start a thread, or post on a forum where others seek support.

 

Am I missing something? No offense intended, JJ.

 

If you do NOT have an issue, or a question, or some pain, or need guidance, or seek to understand some facet of the relationship....what is this thread all about?

 

How to be happy and content in a long term affair?

 

I mean, what IS the point of this thread?

 

To explain....what exactly?

 

That it is perfect and you accept it and it is fine for now, and if it is not fine tomorrow, you will at least have had five years together.

 

Ok....but isn't that true for any relationship?

 

And if you are fine with it, why this thread? To defend it? Receive attention for it?

 

I feel dense, and I apologize. But I still don't understand.