Jennie - an unapologetic OW

[desertIslandCactus]

But here is an OW who knows exactly what she's doing for over five years, and doesn't really care so yes, it is necessarily the OW.

 

Yes. I believe the OW is used in that manner.

[jsb58]

I should have communicated this a bit better, Jennie knows what I mean without going into full detail...my bad...I have been really busy (overwhelmed actually) and have had little time to write the way I would like.

 

Words do hurt, and I have seen some really mean posts, some are right after the other, and the tone, writing style, all of it combined cause me at times to be reluctant to say what is really going on. If a person is really hurting and hypersensitive at the same time, much damage can be done with hurtful, mean words/posts.

 

For me, I don't post on LS for support as it is not supportive anymore.

This is an example of what I do not understand about this forum. An other woman is hurt by the words of strangers but blind to the anguish being perpetrated upon the spouse.

[2themoon&back]

This is an example of what I do not understand about this forum. An other woman is hurt by the words of strangers but blind to the anguish being perpetrated upon the spouse.

 

 

What is there to understand--- The forum is called OW/OM, not “What about the BS”?

 

I do not think all OW/OM are blind--- it is not always what they need to talk about, the hurt of the BS, it can be stated and move on from there no need to be antagonistic until the AP gives a response to how bad they feel about the feelings of the BS.

 

An AP has feelings and issues to work out themselves and they do not get much opportunity to do this because the BS’s feelings need to be brought to the table and acknowledged before ANYTHING else can be discussed and even then it is a small window of opportunity IMO.

 

Maybe you just do not understand ?

[Heather1]

You are wrong that the BS is not taken into consideration at all...

 

I think the BS feelings are the #1 priority & OP are constantly breaking up & getting back together to "do the right thing" & out of guilt. You would not believe how many break ups I've had to do the right thing & to keep MM top priority his W. I don't think you understand the addiction part of A's & how vulnerable W are when they get in....& how hard it is to get out!! I've tried for 2 years to get out & never want to be responsible for hurting BS. She has a great life, she's beautiful, and he loves her.

 

The only one who's been in any pain from this has been moi. Didn't mean to t/j but you're dead wrong. BS is #1.

[bentnotbroken]

You are wrong that the BS is not taken into consideration at all...

 

I think the BS feelings are the #1 priority & OP are constantly breaking up & getting back together to "do the right thing" & out of guilt. You would not believe how many break ups I've had to do the right thing & to keep MM top priority his W. I don't think you understand the addiction part of A's & how vulnerable W are when they get in....& how hard it is to get out!! I've tried for 2 years to get out & never want to be responsible for hurting BS. She has a great life, she's beautiful, and he loves her.

 

The only one who's been in any pain from this has been moi. Didn't mean to t/j but you're dead wrong. BS is #1.

 

 

:eek::confused::sick:

[desertIslandCactus]

It's human nature to want to stand for those (the BS in this instance) who cannot defend themselves.

 

Especially in a closed marriage, where the OW (or outsider) has found herself to be desirous of the H.

 

There is nothing set in stone that says the OW should have the MM. And in spite of some stories of what a bad person the BS is, it doesn't add up or justify the marriage breakup, to those reading the stories. Two people should not equal Three!

[jsb58]

You are wrong that the BS is not taken into consideration at all...

 

I think the BS feelings are the #1 priority & OP are constantly breaking up & getting back together to "do the right thing" & out of guilt. You would not believe how many break ups I've had to do the right thing & to keep MM top priority his W. I don't think you understand the addiction part of A's & how vulnerable W are when they get in....& how hard it is to get out!! I've tried for 2 years to get out & never want to be responsible for hurting BS. She has a great life, she's beautiful, and he loves her.

 

The only one who's been in any pain from this has been moi. Didn't mean to t/j but you're dead wrong. BS is #1.

Are you really serious? If the BS is #1, the affair would not be taking place!

 

Besides, the OP of this thread has already made it clear that the BS in her case isn't #1.

 

Thank you for your post tho. It helps me understand how people in affairs can get their priorities twisted.

[Heather1]

Not quite sure what BS are looking for here, especially this thread?

 

I think it's better to read up on how A's start in the first place & then have a life of their own & it happens all the time to people who never wanted it to happen in the first place. Certainly JJ is not wanting to harm his family, and she loves the OM. The time to "fix" the M is before the A begins, not when it's in a full blown LTA.

 

That's not to say it's the W's fault. Relationships are fragile, and you throw in a few deaths, family troubles, financial troubles, disabled kids, whatever & everyone seems to think we're invincible & can never crack.

 

I think an LTA is saying someone has cracked.

[desertIslandCactus]

Not quite sure what BS are looking for here, especially this thread?

 

I think it's better to read up on how A's start in the first place & then have a life of their own & it happens all the time to people who never wanted it to happen in the first place. Certainly JJ is not wanting to harm his family, and she loves the OM. The time to "fix" the M is before the A begins, not when it's in a full blown LTA.

 

That's not to say it's the W's fault. Relationships are fragile, and you throw in a few deaths, family troubles, financial troubles, disabled kids, whatever & everyone seems to think we're invincible & can never crack.

 

I think an LTA is saying someone has cracked.

 

Oh, I know how A's begin. In Jen's situation I believe she knew him from years ago, and then set her sights on him for a renewed relationship.

 

In many other situations, the two start with a friendship and/or attraction. This is the warning signal. When one or both take it further, normally one gets burned early-on or later. But there Is a Warning, before the actual A starts, for those to heed.

 

So-called 'love' (a selfish 'love) isn't justification for contributing to breaking up a family.

 

All M's could have one or more of the problems you have described: family, financial, deaths, illness, etc .. These are always a testing in people's lives. But obviously are also used as a wedge or an in for the illicet relationship.

 

Also, not all on here posting with feelings against an A, are BS's.

[awkward]

OWoman are you willing to share the site and the specific keywords you used to get the 800+ hits?

[pureinheart]

This is an example of what I do not understand about this forum. An other woman is hurt by the words of strangers but blind to the anguish being perpetrated upon the spouse.

 

 

The Other Man/Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

 

Quite frankly I don't understand why there isn't support, there used to be, although that is a different topic.

 

JSB, I think it depends on the players...there are a couple of us in here who are out of the A, and dealt with extremely disturbed BS's who were also WS's at the same time.

[pureinheart]

You are wrong that the BS is not taken into consideration at all...

 

I think the BS feelings are the #1 priority & OP are constantly breaking up & getting back together to "do the right thing" & out of guilt. You would not believe how many break ups I've had to do the right thing & to keep MM top priority his W. I don't think you understand the addiction part of A's & how vulnerable W are when they get in....& how hard it is to get out!! I've tried for 2 years to get out & never want to be responsible for hurting BS. She has a great life, she's beautiful, and he loves her.

 

The only one who's been in any pain from this has been moi. Didn't mean to t/j but you're dead wrong. BS is #1.

 

(((((((((hugs))))))))))) Heather, it sounds like you are going through a lot..I don't think Jennie would mind you releasing the way you have. I understand the inner conflict. I finally let it run it's course until I was strong enough and had the support I needed to do what needed to be done.

 

Your beautiful too BTW:), there is a wonderful man out there for you.

[bentnotbroken]

Not quite sure what BS are looking for here, especially this thread?

 

I think it's better to read up on how A's start in the first place & then have a life of their own & it happens all the time to people who never wanted it to happen in the first place. Certainly JJ is not wanting to harm his family, and she loves the OM. The time to "fix" the M is before the A begins, not when it's in a full blown LTA.

 

That's not to say it's the W's fault. Relationships are fragile, and you throw in a few deaths, family troubles, financial troubles, disabled kids, whatever & everyone seems to think we're invincible & can never crack.

 

I think an LTA is saying someone has cracked.

 

Well in JJ's case you can't fix what you don't know is broken. The wife knows nothing. When she asked she was lied to by the split up dude. And JJ says she has no problem with breaking up his family so what thread are you reading?

 

And you are right in a LTA there is at least one cracked/split person and possible two.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie

 

You have alluded to this before about how you and he are pretty much in constant contact throughout the whole day. Well that must mean you are pretty much glued to your PC and I really do not see how that is having a life of your own. I also remember that you once said that your children have lost out on time with you so that you can remain in contact with the MM. Again that does not suggest to me that you are living your own life as your family are suffering.

 

It really bothers me when people draw their own conclusions from what I say and also bring up stuff I said long ago as if it was some constant truth.

 

No, I am not glued to my PC all day. I said my MM is available to me all day. That doesn't mean I am actually talking to him all day, just like you do not spend the whole day talking to your husband if both of you are at home a whole day.

 

In the beginning of our relationship, just like with all relationships, we were pretty caught up with each other, and because of that it happened at times that the kids lost out on time with me. Being we have been together for a long time now, things are no longer as intense, and there is plenty of time for the kids. So, no, my family is not suffering. Also, the fact that I am a SAHM means the kids have the entire time had the privilege of having a mom plenty available, so forget about there ever being a suffering family.

[jennie-jennie]

This is why I think that the term "unapologetic OM/OW", is wrong and the term "Un-repentant OM/OW", should be used. I'm not apologetic about my love for my GF, but I certainly feel bad about how we conducted the beginnings of our relationship.

 

See, I don't.

 

"Unrepentant" has a religious ring to me, which I do not like. I prefer the term "unapologetic".

[jennie-jennie]

In another thread, you stated that you knew your ex really loved YOU because after his numerous affairs, he would always come back to you. How, then, can you state the above when your MM hasn't even considered leaving his W for you in all these years? He hasn't even left her to have to return to her? Doesn't it then follow, logically (based on your statement in that other thread), that SHE is HIS primary and only love object?

 

Truth is I still am not sure my ex really loved me. I am not even sure he is capable of loving anyone. I guess I believe he loved me as much as he is capable of.

 

My MM, on the other hand, shows his love for me consistently. There is no question about it. He makes me feel so loved all the time. He is so caring. He is crazy about me. :love:

 

Also, to compare these two men is not doable. One is a commitment phobic, the other is commitment obligated.

[jennie-jennie]

I disagree. All of my As have been good.

 

I guess it depends on your understanding of "good", and for whom "good" is an issue.

 

All of my As ended in my favour. What that translated as varied according to what I wanted and my circumstances at the time, but I don't think that an A ending "in the OW / OM's favour" necessarily translates as the APs landing up together. An OW or OM calling time on an A that no longer works for them is also ending the A in their favour, as is the OW / OM whose MP quietly disappears and leaves them in peace to reconstruct their life and achieve their potential, freeing them from an A that was harmful to them. As long as their best interests triumph - whatever those are - I'd consider the A to have ended in that person's favour - whether or not they land up with their MP.

 

Totally agree, and I can also say that our relationship has been very good for me. If it ends tomorrow and I would grieve it for some time to come, I would still have benefited so much from it and have such good memories.

[jennie-jennie]

I know you think it is tacky for people to dig up people's old posts (as do I), but I wanted to make sure I got your terminology correct. So, I hope you will forgive this one-off:

So which one is it? You seem to have a pretty good grasp of your affair. In fact, you often remind us of the fact that you know it far better than any of us could. So what is it specifically you are seeking to understand?

 

I see nothing contradictory in the two posts of mine you stated.

 

There is always more to learn. Discussing with other people makes me think more about stuff than I would have done if I was on my own with my thoughts. Suddenly you see new angles that you haven't thought about before. This doesn't mean I am going to change my general viewpoint, it means more aspects are considered and joined into that viewpoint.

[jennie-jennie]

I've seen many people claim to be "ok in an A" until the you-know-what hits the fan.

 

Well, I have five years of being "ok in an affair". I can see how a Dday can put that on its head, but I can't see how it could erase the five good years that have already passed.

[jennie-jennie]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "This model of infidelity suits me." The thing is JJ, you have mentioned that you grew up in a bad childhood, as well as had some very bad relationships. Wether you recognize it or not, your self esteem has taken a major plunge as a result. Day after day you make excuses for and justify the behavior of a man who has left you hanging on the line for 5 years, meanwhile he gets to go home and have a partner to help raise children with and have someone to sleep next to at night. What you describe as contact on a daily basis really does not sound to be any different than what I give my platonic female friends.

 

He is at work, making money and doing something productive with his day. He pencils you in, too. Meanwhile what are you doing? In order to keep contact with him in the manner you have stated I imagine you do not go to work. From the sound of things he just does what is easy, which is give you contact when it's convinient for him. The other half of things - is you sitting around and making yourself available for him wherever and whenever and that has included cutting into time with your children.

 

What the two of you are living is extremely dysfunctional in and of itself. Yet you are so desperate for some attention and affection that you are willing to accept a MM who throws you the leftover scraps of himself. Then you tell yourself you just got to eat a grand feast.

 

You have mentioned that your MM has never lied to you, yet either it is you - or it is you sharing what he says - that is riddled with contradiction and believe me, that is the last thing that comes out of truthful communication. You also said you don't believe he lies because you two have an "arrangement" Well honey, what do you think that was when he showed up for his wedding and recited vows. Wether you choose to see it or not, the way people treat others IS the way they will treat us too when similar circumstance arises. Your MM did not wake up one day and say "Well, because her name is Jennie, I am going to tell her the truth when I know it will make her upset and hurt her feelings, instead of lie to her." It just does not work that way. You mentioned that MM only has sex with you, but the one time she made a pass at him this Summer he did not turn her down. What does that tell you? If he is having sex with you exclusively, it is because she is not trying to have it, but the moment she did - he threw his "exclusivity" to you, out the window.

 

Yet here you are, and admit you would put yourself through this another 5 or 10 years. JJ it is just sad and it reflects how desperate for attention and human affection that you are, and I understand that it can be hard to tell the difference between a good relationship and a bad one when people have treated you like crap all of your life. A woman with a healthy self image and healthy self esteem would never in ten million years settle for a situation like this.

 

Is that something you acknowledge to yourself?

 

You could have a relationship with a man who treats you well AND comes home to you, shares a life with you and your children and is completely open with you. That is what you could have and yet you settle for less. Yet you say you focus on what you DO have instead of what you don't. You could have more so why short change yourself? If I have money to buy a steak, I don't buy a balogne sandwhich yet that is exactly what you're doing and then focusing on the fact that "hey, at least there is SOME meat in there."

 

This is so far from reality, I am not going to bother to comment it. You're describing some imaginary OW, not me.

[2themoon&back]

Well, I have five years of being "ok in an affair". I can see how a Dday can put that on its head, but I can't see how it could erase the five good years that have already passed.

 

JJ, It does not erase anything

[jennie-jennie]

I find it strange how you are trying to convince someone who says she's ok, that she is in fact desperate and how you are attempting to re-write her own perspective of her own situation.

 

I listen to what Jennie is and have consistently been saying in all her posts and I definitely don't see someone desperate (there definitely are posters that could be called that on this forum but Jennie is not one of them).

 

I see a person who has quite good self-esteem and great wisom and understanding of herself and others, having worked through many difficult issues. A person who is confident and strong and knows exactly what she wants after she carefully thoroughly thought it through.

 

In fact, women who cope well in As are those who don't have low self-esteem and fragile egos and have made a conscious choice to be in that situation and deal with whatever comes.

 

This is what Jennie has been clearly communicating.

 

Do you find it hard to see that someone else's perspective and way of experiencing certain situation can be completely different from your own?

 

Strong, confident women who have their own opinions can choose any type of R they want and see it as their conscious choice of something that works for them, not settling. You and probably most people see a situation like hers as very bad - she doesn't.

 

Sorry Jennie I ąm writing about you and not to you, but I wanted to describe the impression I get from reading your posts.

 

Don't be sorry, Ellin, you hit the nail on the head!

[jennie-jennie]

I'm curious Jennie...you've noted that the "split self affair" isn't a "pop culture" thing, that Emily Brown has contributed to other works...etc...

 

Does any other psychologist/therapist/etc... subscribe and publish works around the "split self" concept?

 

She's been the only proponent of this concept that I've seen...which makes is suspect in my mind at least.

 

And I have to agree with others....to me...it's the "perfect out" for you.

 

It gives you the perfect excuse to accept behavior that otherwise you'd be forced to admit and acknowledge was unacceptable..

 

It gives the perfect "excuse" for the situation to remain the same, for him to act like pretty much every other MM we've seen on the board, for no discernable change (or change that occurs at such a slow pace that it's taken 5 years for pretty much nothing to happen).

 

I don't buy the theory, frankly. I do understand that you do, and you embrace it....and I feel that the reason you do is because it gives you what you want, rather than being a real "condition" that prevents any real changes occuring at a pace that anyone would consider reasonable. You want to have a "reason" for your situation to exist the way that it does...and this is what you found that fits the bill.

 

From your thousands of posts, and countless descriptions of your situation, I don't see anything that tells me that he's any different than all the other MM's we've seen described here.

 

He's not changing, because he has everything he wants right now. A wife and a mistress, one ignorant of the situation and therefore not 'making waves', and the other willing to accept a pretty far-fetched theory on why change doesn't have to happen.

 

His reasons for not telling his wife, for not truly changing the situation aren't because he's "torn" or conflicted...his reasons are much, much simpler. He doesn't have an onus for change, and reason to cause the situation to potentially tip away from him having needs met by both women.

 

He doesn't change because he doesn't have to.

 

You accept the situation in front of you because you want to...not because Emily Brown says this is the way it's gonna be.

 

Everyone has their own mental gymnastics to rationalize what they want/do...they just rarely admit to themselves what they're doing.

 

I was in the relationship for four years before I read about the split self affair. Learning about the split self affair gave me peace of mind. It ended the constant struggle between my mind and my heart. It spoke my language. It described my reality. It fitted into my prior world view. It didn't make me stay with my MM, I was already staying. It changed my perspective, so I could be happier while staying with him.

[jennie-jennie]

sorry, this isn't why you started this thread with the title "an unapologetic OW"

 

I had to think up a new thread title, since my first thread, named "Jennie's thread" was considered to be against TOS.

[jennie-jennie]

Owoman...how many posts have we seen here where the OW went into the situation wanting an affair, expecting nothing more out of it, and the situation remained that way throughout the entire relationship? Versus the number of women who come here describing what they feel is a "bad" or "depressing" situation where they "find" themselves in a relationship with a married man and want/expect it to turn into more than 'just an affair' but are hurt/depressed when it doesn't?

 

Far more of the latter than the former, from all the posts I've read.

 

There are a couple who come here (like yourself) with no other expectations...but most are hoping the affair causes the marriage to end at some point so that they can have a deeper relationship with the MM...even Jennie is no exception to that...her difference is that she's willing to wait years/decades/forever for that to happen. But her expectations that it WILL happen are the same.

 

This nearly always is about an OW accepting what she can get out of the relationship, rather than going into it with an expectation of nothing more than a good time and nothing else.

 

I hope my MM will get a divorce, but I am not expecting it. That's a huge difference. I am doing exactly what OWoman says, choosing to stay in an affair because it suits me to do so.

 

I think a lot of the damage an OW suffers during an extramarital relationship is self-inflicted through her perception and her expectations. By looking at the relationship realistically for what it is she can stop hurting herself. That is what I have done.