Jennie - an unapologetic OW

[donnamaybe]

Are you suggesting that my MM has no problem whatsoever that he spends his days lying to his wife?

Are you suggesting there are no people on the earth who would have no problem lying to their spouse day in and day out?

[jennie-jennie]

Wrong. I was in the military for several years and travelled to different countries and became quite familiar with other cultures and dated men from those cultures. The men I've known did not allow any "culture" to dictate who they love and how they treated their loved ones.

 

I didn't say "dated". I said had a relationship with. A long term relationship.

[jennie-jennie]

Are you suggesting there are no people on the earth who would have no problem lying to their spouse day in and day out?

 

No, but I know for a fact my MM is not one of those.

[donnamaybe]

I didn't say "dated". I said had a relationship with. A long term relationship.

Doesn't matter. I lived in a vastly different culture AND country for three years and got to know many people in said culture and country. Every day. Not just when it suited them.

[someday]

No, I don't realize that. I do know I am helped by reading posts by others that think like me. OWoman's posts for example have helped me a great deal, Ellin's posts as well and many others. You can always proceed further in the company of others than on your own.

 

But what I was referring to in the post of mine you quoted is that it is obvious in other threads that many LS posters have questions about me and my perspective, and I wanted to give them a chance to ask these questions in a thread of my own.

 

I believe one reason why people are interested in my situation in particular is because I am from a different culture than most LS posters. It makes my point of view more difficult for them to understand. That and that I am an unapologetic OW who has found a way to deal with being the OW in spite of rather having her MM get a divorce.

 

Do you think that A's are right for every OW? I honestly wonder that because you seem to be so pro-A.

 

Yes, I'm from a non-mainstream culture too. I don't feel the need to explain myself to others tho...either they get me or they don't.

[donnamaybe]

No, but I know for a fact my MM is not one of those.

I draw my conclusions from the fact that he has been lying to his wife for over five years with no end in sight. In that sense, it seems to be a fair conclusion to draw.

[Owl]

I would sugget that after 5 years he has had plenty of time and practice getting used to it...not to mention more and more skilled at it. If he is still lying to his wife daily after all this time, I seriously doubt that he is still letting it tear him up. At this point, its part of hiseveryday existance...he's learned to live with it. I think he has to give the APPEARANCE ofbeing torn up over it, or you would think much less of him.

[someday]

No, but I know for a fact my MM is not one of those.

 

Guess it's just me but I would have a BIG problem with a man who is this, um, cold. Again the ick factor when I read about your MM is very high...just yuck.

 

I understand you love him and I am sorry for you.

[donnamaybe]

I would sugget that after 5 years he has had plenty of time and practice getting used to it...not to mention more and more skilled at it. If he is still lying to his wife daily after all this time, I seriously doubt that he is still letting it tear him up. At this point, its part of hiseveryday existance...he's learned to live with it. I think he has to give the APPEARANCE of being torn up over it, or you would think much less of him.

Right on, Owl. Exactly.

[pureinheart]

What you do is plant a seed in the mind of the MM. Now he's heard of the split self affair and knows IC is recommended. When he finally realizes he can not fix the situation himself, he already knows the next step to take.

 

It's like being a partner to an active alcoholic. You tell him about AA once. You plant the seed. Then he'll know what to do once he hits rock bottom.

 

This statement is perfect. It is the way most matters should be handled. Badgering a person is just going to cause the individual to dig their heels in deeper.

 

I see my error in past R's...you can lead a person to water...

[jennie-jennie]

Doesn't matter. I lived in a vastly different culture AND country for three years and got to know many people in said culture and country. Every day. Not just when it suited them.

 

LOL It does matter! I lived in my MM's culture for four years, and I will tell you I had NO idea what it meant to be with a man from that culture until our relationship.

[xxoo]

These are perfect examples of what is not related to me and our relationship. It is related to the issues my MM has which prevent him from being honest with his wife. By looking at it like you suggest I would inflict harm on myself. By looking at it as being his problem it is his problem.

 

So, you are not hurt by those actions? Your understanding of his issues prevents you from feeling hurt when he behaves in ways that objectively hurtful toward you?

 

His issues influence his behavior and choices. If his behavior and choices hurt you, that hurt is valid no matter what his issues may be. It is great to understand that it is about him, and not about you. That doesn't mean he consistenly treats you well, or that his behavior is acceptable.

 

You make a lot of excuses for his crappy behavior. It sounds like you've spent a lifetime making excuses for men's crappy behavior. His crappy behavior may be less extreme or less consistent than another man's crappy behavior, but it doesn't make it a healthy relationship. Healthy relationships don't typically require support groups.

[donnamaybe]

LOL It does matter! I lived in my MM's culture for four years, and I will tell you I had NO idea what it meant to be with a man from that culture until our relationship.

You will continue to believe whatever will help mitigate your MM's behaviors.

[jennie-jennie]

Do you think that A's are right for every OW? I honestly wonder that because you seem to be so pro-A.

 

Yes, I'm from a non-mainstream culture too. I don't feel the need to explain myself to others tho...either they get me or they don't.

 

I haven't seen LS posters probing you with questions and discussing your relationship in every other thread. I was asked to start my own thread, and I thought that was a good suggestion.

 

I think an affair is right for the OW who is deeply in love with her MM, who chooses to be in a relationship with her MM, whose morals do not contradict her being in said relationship, who gets more positives than negatives from the relationship, whose MM treats her well, who isn't sacrificing her opportunity to have children and so on and so on (if I forgot something).

[jennie-jennie]

You will continue to believe whatever will help mitigate your MM's behaviors.

 

You will continue to believe what you have no empirical experience to back up.

 

The difference being that my experiences changed my understanding.

[donnamaybe]

I've experienced much of life and people. Five years of lying and deceit tell the story, IMO.

[BB07]

You know......trying to change someone's mind or get someone to see something differently is useless when they are as outspoken as jennie is about being the OW. Might as well beat your head against the wall. jennie agreed with pure's statement, "no matter what the cost" and it's clear that jennie sees it that way.

The cost to yourself, the mm and his family might be greater than you could ever imagine jennie. I hope not for everyone's sake, but if it is, it's gonna be on you because I don't think you care as long as you believe you are getting what you want from it.

As you mentioned in a prior post about OWoman's posts helping you, I've often wondered if you see yourself much like her. Maybe I'm wrong.......but I see very few similarities because from what I've read from OWoman's posts, she is nobody's fool and if she didn't get what she wanted........she moved on, she didn't sit by and patiently wait for someone else to change for her. I don't want to put words in her mouth but she strikes me as someone who would say pretty quickly..........don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

[someday]

I haven't seen LS posters probing you with questions and discussing your relationship in every other thread. I was asked to start my own thread, and I thought that was a good suggestion.

 

I think an affair is right for the OW who is deeply in love with her MM, who chooses to be in a relationship with her MM, whose morals do not contradict her being in said relationship, who gets more positives than negatives from the relationship, whose MM treats her well, who isn't sacrificing her opportunity to have children and so on and so on (if I forgot something).

 

This will be my 166th post. I haven't been here long enough and haven't posted enough of my story to have others question me. Besides, my story isn't nearly and 'flashy' as your story.

 

Well, you give a nice list of prerequisite's to a being an OW...but you haven't really address the concept of you being way too overly pro-affair to all who happen by LS...that's what I see from your posts.

 

Just like you think that not every M is right I think not every A is right. I wouldn't want a man or a woman contorting themselves to remain in either situation if it's an unhealthy situation.

[anne1707]

LOL It does matter! I lived in my MM's culture for four years, and I will tell you I had NO idea what it meant to be with a man from that culture until our relationship.

 

But in fairness Jennie, you were only about 15 at the time plus it was over 30 years ago - you would have changed in that time just as most western cultures have changed.

 

It's pretty much an apples and pears comparison.

[pureinheart]

Jen was asked to start her own thread to give people the opportunity to ask her all the questions they always ask her on other people's threads, taking those threads off-topic - so that's what she's done. I don't see what's egotistical about responding politely to a polite request?

 

 

 

Ok, that's wonderful.

 

So, why the need to explain, or justify, or even start a thread, or post on a forum where others seek support.

 

Am I missing something? No offense intended, JJ.

 

If you do NOT have an issue, or a question, or some pain, or need guidance, or seek to understand some facet of the relationship....what is this thread all about?

 

How to be happy and content in a long term affair?

 

I mean, what IS the point of this thread?

 

To explain....what exactly?

 

That it is perfect and you accept it and it is fine for now, and if it is not fine tomorrow, you will at least have had five years together.

 

Ok....but isn't that true for any relationship?

 

And if you are fine with it, why this thread? To defend it? Receive attention for it?

 

I feel dense, and I apologize. But I still don't understand.

 

The above quote by OWoman is why:).

 

Also, and this is paraphrasing, I read where Jennie stated that discussing her R gives her clarity...which would be support and discussion at the same time.

[anne1707]

It really bothers me when people draw their own conclusions from what I say and also bring up stuff I said long ago as if it was some constant truth.

 

OKaaayyy - well you've done it to me in the past year bringing up posts I made in 2008 when I joined this site over a year before you.

 

 

No, I am not glued to my PC all day. I said my MM is available to me all day. That doesn't mean I am actually talking to him all day, just like you do not spend the whole day talking to your husband if both of you are at home a whole day.

 

Seriously - I was not trying to offend. It was just something about the way you have phrased it in the past made me think the contact was more constant.

 

But I also don't see how you can compare it to when I am at home with my husband (another apples and pears comparison). You should compare it more to when he and I are both at work and therefore completely different locations.

 

 

In the beginning of our relationship, just like with all relationships, we were pretty caught up with each other, and because of that it happened at times that the kids lost out on time with me.

 

Well seeing as I was remembering (whether incorrectly or not) something you posted since you joined LS then that is a long time after those initial stages.

 

 

Being we have been together for a long time now, things are no longer as intense, and there is plenty of time for the kids. So, no, my family is not suffering. Also, the fact that I am a SAHM means the kids have the entire time had the privilege of having a mom plenty available, so forget about there ever being a suffering family.

 

 

I get that you are a SAHM but I seriously do remember you saying in at least one post that your children have lost out on time with you so you could focus on the MM. I do actually think you should not be 100% focussed on your children but again it came down to the way you phrased it that made me think .

 

Jennie - I was/am genuinely interested and was not trying to stir. It does however seem that you say you have started a thread to answer questions but you seem to be dismissing questions you do not like or ones that may not support your viewpoint. I thought you had more b%lls than that.

[pureinheart]

Wrong. I was in the military for several years and travelled to different countries and became quite familiar with other cultures and dated men from those cultures. The men I've known did not allow any "culture" to dictate who they love and how they treated their loved ones.

 

That is awesome! I have always believed that every person in the US should either enlist or work at Walmart...for humbling purposes...both seem to have the same affect! I mean this as a compliment:)

[pureinheart]

But in fairness Jennie, you were only about 15 at the time plus it was over 30 years ago - you would have changed in that time just as most western cultures have changed.

 

It's pretty much an apples and pears comparison.

 

If this was Jennies first love I can completely relate. In fact back in '88 I contacted my bf from when I was 14...then contacted him again a few years ago. I still carry a flame for him. It would not be hard to re-kindle deep feelings I had for those in my past that did not completely screw me over:D

[anne1707]

Pure

 

Jennie was talking of cultures not first love

[pureinheart]

Do you think that A's are right for every OW? I honestly wonder that because you seem to be so pro-A.

 

Yes, I'm from a non-mainstream culture too. I don't feel the need to explain myself to others tho...either they get me or they don't.

 

I have seen Jennie communicate otherwise, there are many types of situations that get posted on this forum.