threebyfate Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 He's just being dramatic and manipulative, why do you care so much about his little hissy fit/attention grabbing melodrama?Bang on, full on drama queen. Don't let his queenly ways disturb your current equinamity.
Author northern_sky Posted December 18, 2010 Author Posted December 18, 2010 I guess I'm missing something, because I thought you were only keeping his as a business contact in the future? Yet now you want to be real friends with someone you're still referring to as narcissistic, selfish, and insensitive, and who hurt you deeply. I don't get it... He's those things, but there are a lot of great qualities that I like about him. It's not black and white. I was hoping we could stay friends, and thought it was worth a shot.
Tony Posted December 18, 2010 Senior Moderators Posted December 18, 2010 Let's please cease being argumentative in this thread and simply address the original post in some way. If you can't add new information, just sit back and relax. Thank you!
Alma Mobley Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Why would he need an excuse? Couldn't he just cut bait and avoid/ignore you? Why would all this drama be necessary? Well, it could be subconscious on his part. He also sounds like a drama queen.
Star Gazer Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 He's those things, but there are a lot of great qualities that I like about him. It's not black and white. I was hoping we could stay friends, and thought it was worth a shot. I thought you said you were going to try to live in the present, and focusing on what he is, and is not (i.e., black and white)? It seems you're still living in the future, and in the grey? Is that helping you? In any event, in your OP he sounds like he doesn't want to talk to you. If you don't plan on responding to him, I guess you're both getting your way. NC. You'll be better off because of it.
Star Gazer Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Well, it could be subconscious on his part. He also sounds like a drama queen. It also sounds like she's been feeding the drama-fire in their email exchanges. They would both benefit from just stepping back far away from each other and moving on with their separate lives.
Author northern_sky Posted December 18, 2010 Author Posted December 18, 2010 It also sounds like she's been feeding the drama-fire in their email exchanges. They would both benefit from just stepping back far away from each other and moving on with their separate lives. No, if anything my email was overly apologetic (according to a friend who read it). I was in no way feeding his fire. I kind of wish I hadn't apologized at this point.
Author northern_sky Posted December 18, 2010 Author Posted December 18, 2010 Well, it could be subconscious on his part. He also sounds like a drama queen. You stole the words out of my mouth. I don't think he's aware he's doing this, but this allows him to cut me off without feeling like the bad guy. Given his sensitivity to criticism and tendency to self flagellate this would make sense.
Alma Mobley Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 You stole the words out of my mouth. I don't think he's aware he's doing this, but this allows him to cut me off without feeling like the bad guy. Given his sensitivity to criticism and tendency to self flagellate this would make sense. I just remembered that he runs in the same circles as your roommate. This also allows him to save face in that YOU were the one who was rude to him and, like you said, he's not the bad guy, you are. That will probably be his story.
Star Gazer Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 No, if anything my email was overly apologetic (according to a friend who read it). I was in no way feeding his fire. I kind of wish I hadn't apologized at this point. I guess it's just hard to tell when you're only showing us what he said, but not what you said. When he says things like: "I'm not saying that I won't forgive you..." and "I wasn't trying to unfairly criticize you...", it sounds like you said something dramatic which inspired that particular response. Anyway, in all honesty, even just via LS, I can see where he came up with a lot of things he said. Like this: "...your manner of expressing your observations does have a tendency to come off harshly and on Tuesday it hit a lot of my personal chords. That tactlessness doesn't make you a jerk, I just think you run the risk of potentially hurting people without meaning to." I don't think for one second that he got mad at ONLY this "slutty" comment. Like Lisa, I really do think it was simply the straw that broke the camel's back...not just that night, but cumulatively since you've known each other. Hearing one tactless comment after another from someone would make plenty of people uncomfortable to be around that person, for fear of being on the receiving end of some comment that really hurt.
Author northern_sky Posted December 18, 2010 Author Posted December 18, 2010 I guess it's just hard to tell when you're only showing us what he said, but not what you said. When he says things like: "I'm not saying that I won't forgive you..." and "I wasn't trying to unfairly criticize you...", it sounds like you said something dramatic which inspired that particular response. Anyway, in all honesty, even just via LS, I can see where he came up with a lot of things he said. Like this: "...your manner of expressing your observations does have a tendency to come off harshly and on Tuesday it hit a lot of my personal chords. That tactlessness doesn't make you a jerk, I just think you run the risk of potentially hurting people without meaning to." I don't think for one second that he got mad at ONLY this "slutty" comment. Like Lisa, I really do think it was simply the straw that broke the camel's back...not just that night, but cumulatively since you've known each other. Hearing one tactless comment after another from someone would make plenty of people uncomfortable to be around that person, for fear of being on the receiving end of some comment that really hurt. You're entitled to your *speculation* about what really happened. It's not very useful to helping me, though, because it's entirely inaccurate. Again, I've never criticized him. I do tend to be somewhat blunt (that's just my manner), but he is very blunt and critical himself. His BFF even said to me several times that "J hates all movies." And, I remember in his dating profile at one point he said he was looking for a girl who isn't easily offended since he can be insensitive in his communication style. I find the whole thing highly hypocritical since I've always lavished him in praise.
elaina Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 I've felt pretty down because of some of the things you said the last time we hung out, and although I'm not mad at you I'm also not sure how excited I am about seeing you again right away. Much of what you said is true and your take on my situation gave me a lot to think about, but your choices of timing and delivery... well, you're very insightful and extremely smart, but I think you risk reducing people and ideas to a hurtful degree. I should clarify that I never thought you were doing or saying anything malicious: just that what you said has put my mind on a train of thought which is negative for me and I don't think I can see you until I've settled things internally. It's not an unproductive state, either -- just confusing, and kind of a downer. I don't think that internally you reduce me, or anyone else, to an oversimplification, but your manner of expressing your observations does have a tendency to come off harshly and on Tuesday it hit a lot of my personal chords. That tactlessness doesn't make you a jerk, I just think you run the risk of potentially hurting people without meaning to. Much like I do with my selfishness, absentminded, and often inconsistent behavior. I'm not saying that I won't forgive you -- I'm saying that there's no insult to forgive. You didn't do anything wrong, you just said some true things in a way that has taken me down a path where I'm not going to feel 100% comfortable or safe around you for a little while. I'll get over it and probably grow from having heard it the way you said it. And I know that you care about and appreciate me: you say as much very regularly, and I do hear you. I just need a little space to examine what you said and figure out what to do with it, and that might take me a little time. If I may suggest, let's talk about it in person after Christmas, which will give me enough time to process everything in a productive way. Does that sound okay to you? I don't want to confine this discussion to text, but I do want to give myself a little room to consider how I feel. I'm sorry if I came off sounding harsh or reductionist myself in that first email -- I'm just a little on edge, but I wasn't trying to unfairly criticize you. That's very interesting. It's a little weird too. have never ever thought a guy would say something like "where I'm not going to feel 100% comfortable or safe around you for a little while." comfortable or safe? Are you going to beat him up Northern Sky? Bad girl! Are you a dominatrix? I think he's an interesting person, and no I don't think you're overreacting, but as a friend, friends just have to accept their friends for who they are, and if you accept J as a friend, that includes weirdness and all. So, if I were you, I'd just tell him something like "Again, I'm sorry for saying what I did. I didn't mean to hurt you. As your friend, I just want you to be happy, and so if that means not being around me, that's fine. If you want to contact me later, feel free to. Hope you have a wonderful Holiday break." Anyways, don't let people get you thinking it's your fault. Obviously (and he admits it) he has issues, and he needs to work through them. Friends sometimes say things, but then forgive each other and go on with their friendship getting even stronger. Or, sometimes they fade away into nothingness. It depends on what you both do. So, since you have a hard time letting him go, I advise just sending him an apology have a happy holidays email instead of just deciding no contact, unless no contact would help you get over him? It's hard all this. I really wish he wasn't messed up, like he said. But, you didn't mess him up. Remember that.
Star Gazer Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 You're entitled to your *speculation* about what really happened. It's not very useful to helping me, though, because it's entirely inaccurate. Again, I've never criticized him. I do tend to be somewhat blunt, but he is very blunt and critical himself. His BFF even said to me several times that "J hates all movies." And, I remember in his dating profile at one point he said he was looking for a girl who isn't easily offended since he can be sort of insensitive in his communication style. This is so frustrating. Are you reading his words, or choosing to use your own? And comparing YOUR communication style to HIS isn't helping you understand this at all. Stop doing that. I'll repeat his words that I quoted: "your manner of expressing your observations does have a tendency to come off harshly and on Tuesday it hit a lot of my personal chords. That tactlessness doesn't make you a jerk, I just think you run the risk of potentially hurting people without meaning to." I think I can speak for more than myself in saying that I've observed you do this often here on LS. Even the way your said "*speculation*" was kinda gritty and snarky. When someone delivers their commentary - on the weather, on a movie, on an outfit, on a restaurant he chose, whatever - harshly and without tact, it's...unpleasant to be around, and nerve-wracking. If you don't want to consider any options other than "he's a drama queen," so be it. But I'm hoping you're interested in self-development.
Choboto Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 /facepalm is all i can do right now....stubbornness doesnt get you far.
threebyfate Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 just that what you said has put my mind on a train of thought which is negative for me and I don't think I can see you until I've settled things internally. Translation: You said something that set my mind to believing bad things about myself and it's all your fault! WAAAAHHHHHH!!
Choboto Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 That's very interesting. It's a little weird too. have never ever thought a guy would say something like "where I'm not going to feel 100% comfortable or safe around you for a little while." comfortable or safe? Are you going to beat him up Northern Sky? Bad girl! Are you a dominatrix? I think he's an interesting person, and no I don't think you're overreacting, but as a friend, friends just have to accept their friends for who they are, and if you accept J as a friend, that includes weirdness and all. So, if I were you, I'd just tell him something like "Again, I'm sorry for saying what I did. I didn't mean to hurt you. As your friend, I just want you to be happy, and so if that means not being around me, that's fine. If you want to contact me later, feel free to. Hope you have a wonderful Holiday break." Anyways, don't let people get you thinking it's your fault. Obviously (and he admits it) he has issues, and he needs to work through them. Friends sometimes say things, but then forgive each other and go on with their friendship getting even stronger. Or, sometimes they fade away into nothingness. It depends on what you both do. So, since you have a hard time letting him go, I advise just sending him an apology have a happy holidays email instead of just deciding no contact, unless no contact would help you get over him? It's hard all this. I really wish he wasn't messed up, like he said. But, you didn't mess him up. Remember that. men have emotions too...
elaina Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 men have emotions too... Hey Choboto, Yeah I know they do. However, how he wrote down his emotion is a lot different at least than the men I know. All men are different though. That's why I advise to send an apology and happy holidays message to him, and if they are friends, to accept how he expresses his emotions. It's up to him though to be a friend too.
elaina Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Translation: You said something that set my mind to believing bad things about myself and it's all your fault! WAAAAHHHHHH!! Threebyfate, Lol yeah. It reminds me of when I was a teenager. My Mom had the audacity to call me selfish. I was thoroughly enraged. How dare she. I just wanted to do my own thing and not have to do anything for anybody else so how dare she hurt my feelings and be so tactless by saying such a thing to me! It's all her fault after all... I know better now.
elaina Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 This is what I think. I believe this whole fit was an excuse to cut of our friendship. Hence why I said he doesn't value me as a friend, and why I don't feel like I should respond. Nah I think you should respond. Just with another I'm sorry and happy holidays and if/when you want, contact me. Sometimes friendship grows through difficulties. One of my friends actually says that she doesn't consider anybody a true friend until after reconciling after an argument. That makes sense to me. Everybody's human.
threebyfate Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Threebyfate, Lol yeah. It reminds me of when I was a teenager. My Mom had the audacity to call me selfish. I was thoroughly enraged. How dare she. I just wanted to do my own thing and not have to do anything for anybody else so how dare she hurt my feelings and be so tactless by saying such a thing to me! It's all her fault after all... I know better now. Haha...at least you didn't try to guilt trip your mother. This guy who's supposedly an adult, tried to put it on northern_sky. I mean come on. He brags about the number of women he's slept with, telling northern_sky that he slept with someone a week after they split, then cries foul when she cracks a joke about his "sluttish" ways. Why would you even tell an ex about sleeping with anyone else? Seriously. WTH?
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Well, you've said very many negative things here about him - how much you disrespect him, criticized him up, down and sideways for deciding to move to NY or take a spur of the moment trip, you've shared your intention to play games at his expense for "fun", referred to him as a "fly," diagnosed him with Asperger's, said you had no interest in friendship with him but just wanted to use him as a business contact (right) and on, and on, and on, and on. I would be profoundly surprised if none of this has been used as ammo against him, especially while you've been drinking. After all, he has had the audacity to not be your boyfriend despite all of your ploys. I'm not exactly accusing you of lying, more like dissembling - you said here on LS that you weren't having sex with him - and you were, and that you were going to go no contact with him - and you did not, and that you were not going to be hanging out as "friends" - and you are. So, I venture to guess that there has been a great deal coming from you to him that you have chosen not to share here. I think that you've torqued the tale to try to garner the exact type of attention and responses that you want to receive. That's all fine, and I hope you are enjoying your drama, but I really wonder why it has to culminate in a thread here.
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Haha...at least you didn't try to guilt trip your mother. This guy who's supposedly an adult, tried to put it on northern_sky. I mean come on. He brags about the number of women he's slept with, telling northern_sky that he slept with someone a week after they split, then cries foul when she cracks a joke about his "sluttish" ways. Why would you even tell an ex about sleeping with anyone else? Seriously. WTH? Except ... they did not "split," they were not ever a couple. She is not his "ex," they were not a couple. They were having casual sex. People who have casual sex might be quite comfortable talking about other casual sex. He probably showed some vulnerability and then NS pounced on it to "teach him a lesson" for rejecting her. Maybe he is a drama queen. So what.
Author northern_sky Posted December 18, 2010 Author Posted December 18, 2010 (edited) Well, you've said very many negative things here about him - how much you disrespect him, criticized him up, down and sideways for deciding to move to NY or take a spur of the moment trip, you've shared your intention to play games at his expense for "fun", referred to him as a "fly," diagnosed him with Asperger's, said you had no interest in friendship with him but just wanted to use him as a business contact (right) and on, and on, and on, and on. I would be profoundly surprised if none of this has been used as ammo against him, especially while you've been drinking. After all, he has had the audacity to not be your boyfriend despite all of your ploys. I'm not exactly accusing you of lying, more like dissembling - you said here on LS that you weren't having sex with him - and you were, and that you were going to go no contact with him - and you did not, and that you were not going to be hanging out as "friends" - and you are. So, I venture to guess that there has been a great deal coming from you to him that you have chosen not to share here. I think that you've torqued the tale to try to garner the exact type of attention and responses that you want to receive. That's all fine, and I hope you are enjoying your drama, but I really wonder why it has to culminate in a thread here. When I saw that you had responded to my thread before reading the response I was pretty much certain it would be criticizing me again and defending him. I was only curious to see how you would spin it against me this time. Your 100% consistency pretty much destroys any shred of credibility your "insight" has. Surely, by sheer luck I'd occasionally do something fine and the other person would screw up. Edited December 18, 2010 by northern_sky
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Well, do you have anything to say in response to my points? My perspective on your behavior is 100% gleaned from what you, yourself post about yourself, and there is an avalanche of it. I have not "spun" anything. I am sitting here, having taken in all the stuff you've written about J, considered stuff you wrote about situations with many other guys, and I arrived at my conclusions. It's not that I dislike you, have some pre-conceived notions about you, or have been swayed by what others think. My opinions about you, your behavior patterns and motivation are absolutely framed only by what YOU post about YOU.
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 BTW, I certainly am in no position to defend this guy or any of 'em. According to you, J might be the Aspergers-ridden fly, unable to maintain any relationship or job that you've described ... or he might be the spectacular, talented hero, whom you've also described. (He's never been presented as a regular human being with a panoply of characteristics - it's either black, or white; good, or bad; love, or hate; worship, or disgust). We know not thing one about this guy. What we do know is that you completely switch your perspective on him based solely upon how he is responding to you. He's just a cypher. You offer what's know in fiction writing as an unreliable narrative voice. We do get to know a lot about you, but it's necessary to read between the lines.
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