Distant78 Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 I would think divorce is preferable to infidelity, yes. And I don't think a wife should have to compete with every other woman in the world. Even really appealing women end up getting betrayed. There are obvious creeps and womanizers who are just generally rotten guys. But what about your neighbor who you found out did it and you swore was a great guy? Why did he do it? He'd take just as much heat for throwing away his marriage. He had a choice to make. What is going to convince the average guy in the gray area to not cheat? I'm not defending him at all. I think understanding him seems like a better way to address the problem than just demonizing him. It doesn't seem fair to say he has no morals if he operates ok in the rest of the world. The women around here like to pretend they have the magic ability to find men who would never do it. They are mostly wrong. If the guy really wanted to be understood he should've gotten a divorce if his woman was so bad and hung sex over his head to get what she wanted. I understand that some BSs can be azzholes before their spouse has an affair, but they didn't make them go out and screw someone else. If he has any morals he would've never taken that step. I agree that there are some cocky women around here that think their ish doesn't stink though.
Distant78 Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 I really don't think that monogamy is a natural state for humans. I'm not convinced we all have one life partner. I do think, though, that if you commit to someone, you have a duty to be true to them while you're with them, if that's what you both agree on. I think there's pressure on people to get married, and that many people get married when they shouldn't because they're told they should, not because they are truly in love. Then when they realize their mistake, they stray instead of divorcing. I don't think the problem is cheating so much as it is not divorcing when you should. Just because humans are not monogamous by nature doesn't excuse infidelity. Our minds gives us the power to think before we act. It's what makes us different from any other animals on Earth. The problem is the cheating. Those people who claim they only married because of pressure from those around them need to stop lying. No one made them put the ring on their finger or cheat on them.
Linda9999 Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Just because humans are not monogamous by nature doesn't excuse infidelity. Our minds gives us the power to think before we act. It's what makes us different from any other animals on Earth. The problem is the cheating. Those people who claim they only married because of pressure from those around them need to stop lying. No one made them put the ring on their finger or cheat on them. Exactly the point I was trying to make with my post. Maybe it was too early in the morning for me
Steadfast Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 A person could type a novel on this thread. That's how deep the subject is. Again, why people cheat is a wide reaching topic, but it all basically boils down to a lack of maturity. Children -especially spoiled ones- are prone to selfishness and sadly, today's society has bred an entire generation of adults who have never truly grown up. They want what they want when they want it, boosted by the modern thinking that they have a right to do so. Marriage and vows mean little when they see no real recourse for their actions. Most cheaters simply expect things to 'blow over' but are devastated when they don't. My first wife told me the real effects of her actions didn't fully materialize until years after our divorce. By then she remembers, it was old news and she received little to no support. We may not be prone to monogamy, but the constant bombardment of sexual innuendo from every possible angle doesn't help. When two truly become one, a certain strength is gained; a realization of what's being thrown at them. To paraphrase my favorite Michelle Langley quote: "Better to realize what we're capable of then to think we're above it." Great thread Woggle. Some great insights posted here by the group-
Negative Nancy Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 Children -especially spoiled ones- are prone to selfishness and sadly, today's society has bred an entire generation of adults who have never truly grown up. compared to nowaday's society, many children have a higher moral code than most adults, so your point is moot. sadly that speaks volumes about us as a society.
thissecretgirl Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 I think people take cheating too seriously. You make a commitment to be together for life, which the cheater is not necessarily breaking. But you also take away all the rest of their life and make the assumption you'll always be enough for them. All they will ever need. Even though they may not even know you that well. But all you are offering them forever is you: just you. Are you perfect? Maybe the problem is not that they decide they need more, but instead it's just your ego. Because you think you're going to fill every gap they have in their life. Although I really get this point, its a difficult one to accept because I think its human nature to want to be 'enough' but I think there is definitely merit to this argument. An ex of mine from years back shares a similar view and often questions 'why should and how can one person provide or fulfil every need in another'. We used to have some really interesting discussions about it and although we would never have worked out, we are still very good freinds today and I think these discussions made me re evaluate what was important to me in a relationship. I'm not poly in the slightest but for me the issue with cheating (from an ex bs and ow viewpoint) isnt the act of sex its the deception and betrayal of trust that goes along with it. I love sex and I'm pretty damn hot in that department if I say so myself, but I could be happy having sex with the same man for the next 30 years. My very recent ex on the otherhand was a very different creature. We had a fantastic sex life and a loving relationship but ultimately he craves variety and the seduction that goes along with something new. He always has and I knew this. When we looked at a future together we discussed both our needs, including these particular sexual needs and how they might play out in our relationship. What I worked out is that I feel very differently about negotiating and allowing a partner to venture outside the relationship on occassion (withing certain boundaries) and having it forced upon me and discovering it was happening without my knowledge. I understand thats not for everyone and I know its not a typical way to look at it and I think managing and being comfortable with a relationship like this comes with its own set of issues. It would have certainly challenged me in many ways but I think I could and would have tried it.
Distant78 Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 compared to nowaday's society, many children have a higher moral code than most adults, so your point is moot. sadly that speaks volumes about us as a society. Completely agree. I'm so tired of hearing our elders say that about these kids, as if they're some type of epidemic. If that's how these adults feel then they should've never layed down and had them. These "spoiled kids" will be making the new cars and building new houses and putting us in retirement homes. It's their world now so move aside and let them have it. This world is never going to be like it was in the 80s and 90s. These kids are not the ones causing the issues America is dealing with today, it's these adults, who are the ones with a low-maturity level, who cheat on their spouses and ignore their kids because they're sexting some co-worker at their job.
Author Woggle Posted December 19, 2010 Author Posted December 19, 2010 I agree as well. You can say what you want about kids today but look at who raised them.
Spark1111 Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 Great thread Woggle! Statistically speaking, to the extent stats can be believed, 95% of women will reconcile with a cheater. The sex with an OW bothers us less than the emotional attachment. If a WS is TRULY remorseful and re-dedicates himself to being a better partner, and works hard to meet our emotional needs, we are more prone to forgiveness and a second chance. Men are less forgiving with only 67% taking back a cheating spouse. Why? Men are extremely visual and find it harder to get over the mind movies, the VISUALs of their spouse having sex with another man. And they seem to know immediately if they can overcome the sexual visuals and find their way to forgiveness, or if it is a done deal. If you do know you will never trust, never be able to find forgiveness, than divorce is the best choice you can make. And that has to be respected.
Distant78 Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 Great thread Woggle! Statistically speaking, to the extent stats can be believed, 95% of women will reconcile with a cheater. The sex with an OW bothers us less than the emotional attachment. If a WS is TRULY remorseful and re-dedicates himself to being a better partner, and works hard to meet our emotional needs, we are more prone to forgiveness and a second chance. Men are less forgiving with only 67% taking back a cheating spouse. Why? Men are extremely visual and find it harder to get over the mind movies, the VISUALs of their spouse having sex with another man. And they seem to know immediately if they can overcome the sexual visuals and find their way to forgiveness, or if it is a done deal. If you do know you will never trust, never be able to find forgiveness, than divorce is the best choice you can make. And that has to be respected. You can lower that 95% to about 75% (even though statistics are false). Women have mind movies also.
2themoon&back Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 Great thread Woggle! Statistically speaking, to the extent stats can be believed, 95% of women will reconcile with a cheater. The sex with an OW bothers us less than the emotional attachment. If a WS is TRULY remorseful and re-dedicates himself to being a better partner, and works hard to meet our emotional needs, we are more prone to forgiveness and a second chance. Men are less forgiving with only 67% taking back a cheating spouse. Why? Men are extremely visual and find it harder to get over the mind movies, the VISUALs of their spouse having sex with another man. And they seem to know immediately if they can overcome the sexual visuals and find their way to forgiveness, or if it is a done deal. If you do know you will never trust, never be able to find forgiveness, than divorce is the best choice you can make. And that has to be respected. I did not have the numbers but was wondering about the samething and it does seem to be true women do forgive more often than men.
2themoon&back Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 I did not have the numbers but was wondering about the samething and it does seem to be true women do forgive more often than men. I know I am treading in dark waters here, but I was not able to forgive it as well either, I was not angry with the OP, just disappointed with exHs/exBFs. And when I knew I would no longer be faithful to my last H, I got a divorce before I stated an A/R with anyone. Now me and exH can still have a decent relationship together and with our children.
pureinheart Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 Not really. If I am so bad that I deserve to be cheated on then she should be glad to get rid of me anyway. Here, here! That's the way most of us feel Wog. Agree also...
Steadfast Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 compared to nowaday's society, many children have a higher moral code than most adults, so your point is moot. sadly that speaks volumes about us as a society. You misunderstand. Do you have, or have had children? If so, you'll recall that the large majority aged 2 to 3 go through an intense selfish phase. I'm not a child physiologist, but after raising four of them, I know the drill. My point is the faction of society that claims that behavior as 'right'. Truth be told, allowing that in a child (or an adult) isn't doing them any favors. As for the rest, times change, but people don't. I do agree about today's youth however; my two teens are extremely aware and receptive. It's as though they can see what has happened and why. Let's hope so-
pureinheart Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 I think people take cheating too seriously. You make a commitment to be together for life, which the cheater is not necessarily breaking. But you also take away all the rest of their life and make the assumption you'll always be enough for them. All they will ever need. Even though they may not even know you that well. But all you are offering them forever is you: just you. Are you perfect? Maybe the problem is not that they decide they need more, but instead it's just your ego. Because you think you're going to fill every gap they have in their life. In the end, it shouldn't even be called "cheating". It should be called "taking care of the needs you can't take care of." Or simply "get over yourself. You can't even fulfill yourself. How do you expect to keep me fulfilled?" Wow Johan, you are an extremely forgiving person, this is awesome and I wish I had had half the wisdom and forgiveness that you have I might not had failed marriages due to infidelity...I was unable to handle "his" indiscretion...yet who made me so freaking perfect. Your posts in this thread have given me further insight to the "whys" and the "hows" of many of my decisions...thank you:) In bold, your right, and your compassion is overwhelming.
pureinheart Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 Great thread Woggle! Statistically speaking, to the extent stats can be believed, 95% of women will reconcile with a cheater. The sex with an OW bothers us less than the emotional attachment. If a WS is TRULY remorseful and re-dedicates himself to being a better partner, and works hard to meet our emotional needs, we are more prone to forgiveness and a second chance. Men are less forgiving with only 67% taking back a cheating spouse. Why? Men are extremely visual and find it harder to get over the mind movies, the VISUALs of their spouse having sex with another man. And they seem to know immediately if they can overcome the sexual visuals and find their way to forgiveness, or if it is a done deal. If you do know you will never trust, never be able to find forgiveness, than divorce is the best choice you can make. And that has to be respected. This is good to hear, I would rather see a good/repairable M stay in tact....with all of the negativity lately, this was very encouraging.
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