UnsureinSeattle Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 Originally Posted by musemaj11 A woman who cant cook and clean are lacking in womanly qualities. So, by your logic, since I do all of the cooking and am the man, I therefore have womanly qualities? What an antiquated view.
wheream_i Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 Some women just don't get it, dude. I have not posted here in a long time but felt the need to vent and ask some questions. We have been married now since July. I am having some major issues. One is shortly after we married I changed jobs took a big hit in the pocket and to be honest I hate my new job. Second my new wife's house keeping is MUCH worse then I thought it was going to be I knew from dating her she was not a neat person but come on our ideas of keeping the house clean are WAY OFF. from one another. I am ALWAYS picking up after her and cleaning up. When I have a day off and she is working I have dinner ready for her when she comes home and not from a box either. When I am working and she is off I cook when I get home?????? The few times she has fixed something it's been crap frozen pizza or something. I just feel like she is not respectful of the things that I like or don't like. I have mentioned a few times about picking up and cleaning around the house she says I'm a neat freak. If you saw the house you would not think that really I just like things put where they belong and dirty dishes out of the sink and would like her to put the same effort into cooking a meal that I do from time to time.
carhill Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 IMO, some women, and scarily, do get it, and the 'it' is that men are interchangeable and, when one doesn't capitulate, merely settle up accounts, get what one can and move on to the next one. With that mindset, and a pragmatic philosophy about relationships, it's easy to steer a clear course without substantial investment of thought or emotion. I was married to one of those, and recounting this portion of our M is scarily similar to the OP. Like him, I loved my exW 'unconditionally' and found that to be a really toxic recipe for marital issues. Listening to the blame-shifting the OP recounts tells me there is no 'unconditional' on his W's side, at all. Fair warning. Strap in. Good luck.
musemaj11 Posted December 22, 2010 Posted December 22, 2010 (edited) WTH - since when is it still 1921??? Wow! Its 2010, and as far as I know being able to provide for the family is still an expected quality in a man just like it was in 1000BC. So whats your point? Would you have married your husband if he barely had a job? Would you be happy if your daughter married a man who barely had a job? Why not? Because a man is supposed to be able to provide for the family just like in 1000BC right? So, by your logic, since I do all of the cooking and am the man, I therefore have womanly qualities? What an antiquated view. Yes, you do have womanly qualities which is not a bad thing as opposed to you probably think it is. Im great at housekeeping and Im proud of possessing womanly qualities. Edited December 22, 2010 by musemaj11
zengirl Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 OP, since you mentioned she's a teacher, I'm curious: Is she any better with the house in the summer months when she's off? I'm a teacher too (middle school), and it's so draining sometimes. I throw my shoes on the floor or leave the bed unmade more than I like, but some weeks, I just don't have the energy. Its 2010, and as far as I know being able to provide for the family is still an expected quality in a man just like it was in 1000BC. So whats your point? Would you have married your husband if he barely had a job? Would you be happy if your daughter married a man who barely had a job? Why not? Because a man is supposed to be able to provide for the family just like in 1000BC right? Yes, you do have womanly qualities which is not a bad thing as opposed to you probably think it is. Im great at housekeeping and Im proud of possessing womanly qualities. Oh, this is silly. I'm a woman, and I have a job. I definitely expect a man to have a job. . . but I have no issues if he expects me to have one either. I also expect a man to keep his house clean, within reason, and to provide himself with healthy food. You have all these perceptions of what women "expect" from men. Expecting someone to have a job is perfectly reasonable, regardless of gender. Becoming a SAHM or SAHH later is a totally different thing, of course, and a choice couples should make together. My point is: Men and women should, in this day and age, all be able to keep their homes livably clean (this will vary for people, but not gross, basically), provide healthy food for themselves (whether through cooking or otherwise), and sustain their own personal economic situation, generally through a job. Since you don't go from your parents' house to your wife's/husband's house, it's a pretty reasonable thing to expect all adults to have general self-sufficiency and stop this nonsense about "manly" or "womanly" jobs. My best friend (a woman) takes out the garbage and takes care of the lawn, and her husband (a man) cooks dinner most of the time and cleans all the bathrooms every week. They both make damn good salaries as well, could live off of either his or hers alone. Stop making it a gender issue.
martini-mae Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Its 2010, and as far as I know being able to provide for the family is still an expected quality in a man just like it was in 1000BC. So whats your point? Would you have married your husband if he barely had a job? Would you be happy if your daughter married a man who barely had a job? Why not? Because a man is supposed to be able to provide for the family just like in 1000BC right? If you'll notice my 1921 comment was for women to cook & clean. As if it's expected that women are the sole caretakers of the household & all it's duties like they were back then when most women didn't hold jobs outside the house. This is almost 2011. We've evolved since then. Men holding jobs. Damn straight they should have jobs & in today's world most women have one too. Which is why the household duties of cleaning, cooking, etc. should fall on both or ALL people that live within that household. Kids should learn to pick up their own stuff. Husbands should pick up their own stuff. And so on & so on & so on. The OP's wife, according to him, doesn't seem to be pulling her share. However, doesn't mean she is a pig or doesn't care. Perhaps (since we're not hearing her side of the story) she's just busy.
MarriedGuyNTennessee Posted December 23, 2010 Posted December 23, 2010 Maxxx, my wife and I went through something similar early in our marriage on the cooking front. Coming from a home where both parents at certain times worked second shift, my brothers and I learned to cook for ourselves. My wife grew up in a home with a stay at home mother. Her teen years were spent on sports and socializing and not learning alot of cooking. What worked for us was cooking meals together. She would handle the easier dishes while I did the more complex ones. As time passed, she would try cooking more complex stuff while I handled her side of the stove. We made it something fun we could do together. It also helped that we liked many of the same foods. Try it sometime. Let her go and don't make a big deal about over coaching her. Note: Keep plenty of 9 volt batteries on hand. The smoke alarms will be tested at first!! After 20 years together, we have evolved to the point of her taking care of the inside cooking and I have moved outside to the grill. The grill is my area and to be honest I prefer it that way because I really don't like anyone messing with my grill. I am a grill snob, I admit it! LOL.
bethelily Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 She's the only woman in the world who can be your sex partner and lover and the mother of your children, but you can definitely outsource a cook and a maid to the OW [other woman] who actually enjoys doing it. I'm serious. No matter how little money you have, it sounds like hiring a maid once a week and buying ready-made dinners will help with the relationship. Hear me out. I think I was just like your wife! A friend of mine said she and her husband had the same arguments about the cleanliness and cooking so she hired a maid! Now they can concentrate on other things. I'm not a cook. I know how to and I enjoy baking goodies, but man, it is just the LAST thing I want to do when I come home from work. Call me lazy or whatever, but I just don't like to cook--takes too much time. So, we found a place that makes them for us--look in your area for Super Suppers, or Dream Dinners, or pre-made meals. Get some to supplement what's not in your fridge. They are healthy, no preservatives, and it took the pressure off of me. As for a maid, figure $10-15 an hour (or $7.50 where I live) for 2 hours a week and voila! You've got help! Seriously, if she is important to you, try this out. I would HATE to see you give up on her. Also, just so you have realistic expectations, it does NOT get better with kids. It's tougher with kiddos for me to clean house constantly. But, I'm not "Holly Homemaker" and not everyone is. Find the things she's great at in the mean time. She may never want to cook/clean to your standards, and you gotta be okay with that. She's the only woman in the world who can be your sex partner and lover and the mother of your children, but you can definitely outsource a cook and a maid to the OW [other woman] who actually enjoys doing it.
Keridan Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 (edited) Marriage is one of the hardest things in life. It's worth it, though. I hate to say it, but this is a small challenge compared to many you will face. Start off on the right foot and face it together. There has been some great advice already. Heck, I'm gonna try the schedule thing since I do all the cooking and cleaning and get a bit tired of it. Something else might work for the two of you. The maid idea might be your best bet. It depends on your relationship together. To those arguing about a woman's or man's role, I have only one quick point. I think there are still two roles in a household, but I prefer the words domestic and professional. I don't think cooking or cleaning or working full time has anything to do with a man or a woman. My wife and I try to do each do both roles. Edit- Sorry! I forgot to say good luck and I hope you two find a solution that works great for both of you! Edited January 1, 2011 by Keridan Oops.
Donutman Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I'm probably in the minority opinion here but here is an honest opinion... is marriage supposed to be this hard? if all you consider marriage is cooking and cleaning then yes however marriage is not about cooking and cleaning it is about someone to spend time with and have conversations with etc... I didn't hear any mention about how you get along outside of the issues you have and while I'm certainly not about to judge as judging is wrong and I don't know your situation at all,I'm a little concerned that you probably bring these issues up with her a lot which will probably make her even less interested in cleaning better I'll admit,I'm a person who enjoys going out to eat a heck of a lot more than eating at home,so I can't really relate to the situation there,but perhaps she just doesn't enjoy cooking at all...if you enjoy cooking maybe she could help out in other areas (perhaps getting a part time job if her not working is really bugging you) if someone just 'expected' me to cook they'd be in for a rude awakening...I don't enjoy cooking but even if I really wanted to,the best they could hope for would be eggs,cereal,grilled cheese,hot dogs etc... and what's wrong with pizza? as for keeping the house clean...our house used to look AWFUL guess what? I was working and my wife was not (through no fault of her own but that's another story) I hated how my house looked,but rather than spend our rare time together arguing about it,I would come home from work and spend just 15 or 20 minutes a day cleaning a little at a time...over time the house started looking nicer and she started helping me there's an old expression...you catch more flies with honey than vinegar I would focus on how you get along more than cooking and cleaning and I think you'll find marriage is not that hard at all...certainly no harder than keeping a good friendship...just treat her as nicely as you would treat your best friend...would you tell your best friend you expect him to cook for you? I hope I helped and I hope things get better take care, Donutman
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