Men, do you give up too easily?

[irc333]

Wait 5-9 days and call her if you get the # (every other guy calls in 2 days)

 

Whoever does this is foolish, and whoever waits THAT long to call a woman is being stupid.

 

5-9 days, what a joke...where do you come up with this crap?! LOL

[somedude81]

Remember this man: WHEN THEY LIKE YOU, THEY HELP YOU

 

Dude, you deserve a girl that is REALLY INTERESTED IN YOU but in life, we don't get what we deserve, we get what we negotiate and right now, you are selling yourself way short by the way you're going about things so you will get what you're getting. What are you getting? A girl that has you 100th on her list (even if you're that high!)

 

Good luck man

It has been the same thing for all of my life.

 

Women, don't, like, me.

 

The will be my "friend" and that's it.

 

I need to be around women to be happy. Since I can't attract women, I have to put up with this bull****. And I'm getting very tired of it.

 

As for getting what I deserve. I may be starting to believe that I don't deserve to have a girl in my life. It's like I did something terrible in a past life and in this one I'm cursed to be single forever.

And why would your end game be to get her to say "leave me alone?" Seems to me that that would (in her mind) border on stalking.

 

And she DID TELL YOU TO LEAVE HER ALONE. She rejected your date offer. Plus, you said in your other post when she told you that she may or may not text you that weekend that "well, it's the best I can expect LOL"

 

THAT IS WEAK, WEAK, WEAK. Not trying to hurt you man but you seem like a good guy and you deserve to treat yourself better than that!!!

 

Let me bottom line it for you. This girl is NOT INTERESTED and you need to MOVE ON.

 

Period.

 

The reason I said I want her to tell me something like "leave me alone" is because she would almost always hang out with me after class. A girl who was cold wouldn't come with me to my apartment to play videogames, would she?

 

The way I think, if a woman who knows I want her, lets me spend time with her, she may be open to something. Why else would she be alone with me? I was going to keep trying till I got a solid rejection, that way my brain could understand that I have a zero percent chance.

 

My text conversation was designed with the same purpose. I wanted her to reject me and I had already planned on what I was going to say after she did. With that, I would close the door and be able to move on. But nooo, I got her stupid womanese answer.

 

For the record, I've known her for a year and am completely infatuated, just in case it wasn't obvious.

 

I'm not going to contact her again. With the way things ended, I doubt I will hear from her again. Now I just need to make sure and avoid things that she would show up at. I need a clean break.

Edited December 17, 2010 by somedude81

[Madgick1]

It has been the same thing for all of my life.

 

Women, don't, like, me.

 

The will be my "friend" and that's it.

 

I need to be around women to be happy. Since I can't attract women, I have to put up with this bull****. And I'm getting very tired of it.

 

As for getting what I deserve. I may be starting to believe that I don't deserve to have a girl in my life. It's like I did something terrible in a past life and in this one I'm cursed to be single forever.

 

Stop it. Just stop the defeatist self talk verging on self pity. Just stop it.

 

Why don't women like you? (It seems if they are willing to be your friend, they do like you. Just no one has fallen in love with you yet). But if they don't like you, why not? There are 3 billion females on this planet, and you really think NOT one will ever love you?

 

Are you clean, neat in appearance, friendly, helpful, good natured, interesting, non neurotic? If so, you will find someone.

 

Are you interesting? What do you do? How do you fill your free time? What are your goals and passions? What are you contributing to the world?

 

And...how old are you?

 

Why do you NEED to be around women to be happy? Are you coming off as needy? Ick. Please see a therapist, neediness is death not just to a relationship, but to your life. Learn to give yourself what you need and share your excess with your beloved when you find one. Learn to be happy without women, and you will find a woman to be happy with.

 

No you don't have to put up with any bullshtt. You have to breath, eat, and die, but you don't have to put up with any bullshtt. Why tell yourself that? To be around a woman so you can be happy? So here you are, putting up with her bs and yet you don't sound happy to me.

 

You don't deserve to have a girl in your life? Relationships aren't rewards doled out by fate to the pure at heart, relationships are developed, nurtured and grown.

[Jeff M Stevens]

It has been the same thing for all of my life.

 

Women, don't, like, me.

 

The will be my "friend" and that's it.

 

I need to be around women to be happy. Since I can't attract women, I have to put up with this bull****. And I'm getting very tired of it.

 

As for getting what I deserve. I may be starting to believe that I don't deserve to have a girl in my life. It's like I did something terrible in a past life and in this one I'm cursed to be single forever.

 

They can sense that type of desperation a mile away. Hey man, I know its a vicious circle. You can't attract the woman you want and it messes with your confidence but you have to "fake it until you make it." Realize that YOU do have WORTH and maybe it's time to get professional counseling so that you can see it. I think a big part of your problem is being needy and too happy to be there when you are around a woman. Even the NICEST woman will EAT YOU ALIVE if you display that kind of "I'll do anything to be around you" attitude.

 

 

The reason I said I want her to tell me something like "leave me alone" is because she would almost always hang out with me after class. A girl who was cold wouldn't come with me to my apartment to play videogames, would she?

 

There are certain women that will let guys spend thousands of dollars on gifts, hundreds on dinners and let them take them on vacation, so, YES, she could simultaneously not be interested and still come over

 

The way I think, if a woman who knows I want her, lets me spend time with her, she may be open to something. Why else would she be alone with me? I was going to keep trying till I got a solid rejection, that way my brain could understand that I have a zero percent chance.

YOU DID GET A SOLID REJECTION WHEN SHE WOULDN'T DATE YOU. Why wouldn't she be alone with you? She probably likes your company but that doesn't mean that any romance is ever going to occur. She may know you like her and she's hoping you change your mind so you can just stay friends. She likes you as a friend but nothing else.

 

My text conversation was designed with the same purpose. I wanted her to reject me and I had already planned on what I was going to say after she did. With that, I would close the door and be able to move on. But nooo, I got her stupid womanese answer.

 

You got a "I'll never date you" answer. Sorry to say that bro but that's what it was. Women help you when they like you.

 

For the record, I've known her for a year and am completely infatuated, just in case it wasn't obvious.

 

I'm not going to contact her again. With the way things ended, I doubt I will hear from her again. Now I just need to make sure and avoid things that she would show up at. I need a clean break.

 

I agree that you need to move on. Dude, you sound like a real nice guy. You just need some confidence and self-worth. It all starts there. I know you can do it!

[Jeff M Stevens]

Whoever does this is foolish, and whoever waits THAT long to call a woman is being stupid.

 

5-9 days, what a joke...where do you come up with this crap?! LOL

 

Who came up with that "crap?" as you call it? His name is Doc Love and here are some of his credentials:

 

*#1 writer on AskMen.com, which is owned by FOX and is the #1 men's Web site in the world with more visits monthly than Maxim, Playboy, Men's Health and more

 

*Been featured in TIME Magazine and on FOX News for his unique approach to dating and relationships

 

*Sold tens of thousands of books worldwide helping men with dating and relationships. Has gotten thousands of "you changed my life" letters from men in a nearly 40 year career because of how his principles changed their lives.

 

Maybe you might want to use a different adjective besides "crap?"

 

I think a better adjective is "brilliant" personally.

[samspade]

Who came up with that "crap?" as you call it? His name is Doc Love and here are some of his credentials:

 

*#1 writer on AskMen.com, which is owned by FOX and is the #1 men's Web site in the world with more visits monthly than Maxim, Playboy, Men's Health and more

 

*Been featured in TIME Magazine and on FOX News for his unique approach to dating and relationships

 

*Sold tens of thousands of books worldwide helping men with dating and relationships. Has gotten thousands of "you changed my life" letters from men in a nearly 40 year career because of how his principles changed their lives.

 

Maybe you might want to use a different adjective besides "crap?"

 

I think a better adjective is "brilliant" personally.

 

Careful...if you post too much truth around here you may get banned.

[samspade]

I need to be around women to be happy.

 

Root of your problem, dude.

 

Ever notice that guys who could give a flying F about whether they have women around, almost always have women around?

 

You won't find the help you're looking for here though - unless you drown out all the noise.

[Surrealist]

Hey somedude take it from me brother, you're approaching 30 so you're not quite old enough yet, but when you get closer to 40, all the middle-age horizontally disadvantaged single lonely dateless women will begin hunting you down like vultures on live prey. You'll have plenty of these to choose from in the years to come if you're willing to 'settle'.

[LoveAintEverything]

all men give up easily, if they think their is no chance just from one little incident...then they do not bother becuz they dont want to get hurt

[irc333]

LOL....I definately wouldn't take advice from someone who refers to himself as "Doc LOOOOOVE".

 

I mean, really?

 

 

Sorry, I don't think I can take someone who refers to themselve as "Doc Love" seriously.

 

Who came up with that "crap?" as you call it? His name is Doc Love and here are some of his credentials:

 

*#1 writer on AskMen.com, which is owned by FOX and is the #1 men's Web site in the world with more visits monthly than Maxim, Playboy, Men's Health and more

 

*Been featured in TIME Magazine and on FOX News for his unique approach to dating and relationships

 

*Sold tens of thousands of books worldwide helping men with dating and relationships. Has gotten thousands of "you changed my life" letters from men in a nearly 40 year career because of how his principles changed their lives.

 

Maybe you might want to use a different adjective besides "crap?"

 

I think a better adjective is "brilliant" personally.

[xRJ85x]

To be honest I think you did misunderstand me a little. But that's cool, it runs a similar theme only I'm looking to see WHY the women in these instances may not have responded, and rightly so perhaps - then I can understand and learn to adjust my approach.

 

My bad, haha but I went back and re read your post so lemme try again. Basically you're asking the possibility of a girl who's into a guy, but doesn't feel secure enough yet to put further trust in the guy because he's trying to be conservative in his approach to her (i.e your friendly example)?

 

I think with that, you need to evaluate whether you have the right balance of friendly and flirtatious. Like you said, a girl will probably get annoyed if the guy isn't aggressive enough (just like waiting too long to call). And as I mentioned, we shouldn't be afraid of jumping through hoops for girls. Because if they're mature enough, they'll see it as a good thing rather than a bad thing. Think of it the opposite in a deep relationship. If you've been madly in love with someone for years, wouldn't you always say and show that you'd do anything for them? Flashing that sort of commitment early on probably builds a ton of trust in the girl.

 

Whoever does this is foolish, and whoever waits THAT long to call a woman is being stupid.

 

5-9 days, what a joke...where do you come up with this crap?! LOL

 

It's Doc Love, I've read enough of his articles in the past to know what NOT to do. The dude has more insecurity issues than a 15 year old chick with slutty tendencies. Sure his methods are great for finding a girl that will be overly obsessed with you (i.e. as Jeff said before, tossing the number of a girl who even tries to compromise a day for the date. How immature and selfish can you be to do that?). But A) those are for the top 0.0001 who can make a woman that obsessed with them and B) unless she's completely normal otherwise, she's probably bat**** crazy and you wouldn't want her.

Edited December 17, 2010 by xRJ85x

[Surrealist]

My bad, haha but I went back and re read your post so lemme try again. Basically you're asking the possibility of a girl who's into a guy, but doesn't feel secure enough yet to put further trust in the guy because he's trying to be conservative in his approach to her (i.e your friendly example)?

 

I think with that, you need to evaluate whether you have the right balance of friendly and flirtatious. Like you said, a girl will probably get annoyed if the guy isn't aggressive enough (just like waiting too long to call). And as I mentioned, we shouldn't be afraid of jumping through hoops for girls. Because if they're mature enough, they'll see it as a good thing rather than a bad thing. Think of it the opposite in a deep relationship. If you've been madly in love with someone for years, wouldn't you always say and show that you'd do anything for them? Flashing that sort of commitment early on probably builds a ton of trust in the girl.

 

 

Yes you have it correct and that does answer my query and I can understand their 'testing' to determine if the guy really is interested and not just playing games and will show that level of interest with some more follow up effort and initiative. I have to some how come to terms with not thinking I am some kind of creep for making more than a single conservative friendly approach.

[somedude81]

Stop it. Just stop the defeatist self talk verging on self pity. Just stop it.

 

Why don't women like you? (It seems if they are willing to be your friend, they do like you. Just no one has fallen in love with you yet). But if they don't like you, why not? There are 3 billion females on this planet, and you really think NOT one will ever love you?

It is much easier to make a woman your friend than to make her somebody you can have a relationship with. There is no comparison. To make a female friend all you need to do is be nice/friendly and somewhat interesting.

 

And yes, nobody has fallen in love with me yet. Will one ever love me? I don't know.

 

Are you clean, neat in appearance, friendly, helpful, good natured, interesting, non neurotic? If so, you will find someone.

Yes to all. But it's not enough to actually attract somebody. Those things are just the bare minimum.

 

Are you interesting? What do you do? How do you fill your free time? What are your goals and passions? What are you contributing to the world?

 

And...how old are you?

I'm 29 and finishing up my college education. I look much younger than I am. I'm always mistaken for 23-24.

 

Why do you NEED to be around women to be happy?

I've been single my entire life. From 13 to 29, I've wanted a girlfriend more than anything in the world. I'm tired of being sad and alone.

 

Frankly, anybody man or woman, who's been single (in not dating at all) as long as I have would be depressed.

 

Are you coming off as needy? Ick. Please see a therapist, neediness is death not just to a relationship, but to your life. Learn to give yourself what you need and share your excess with your beloved when you find one. Learn to be happy without women, and you will find a woman to be happy with.

Several years ago I was called out for being needy. Ever since then I have really cut back and am trying very hard not to appear so. Still I need to actually make an effort to pursue somebody, because they won't come to me. There is a certain level of equilibrium.

 

I have seen several therapists and they have been disappointingly unhelpful.

 

The quick and easy solution for me to become happier is to actually get what I want. If a man is starving, giving him a new pair of shoes isn't going to fix his problem.

 

Video games and anime as well as other things, can take my mind off of women; but I will never be happy without them. Nobody can be happy if they don't have somebody in their life.

 

No you don't have to put up with any bullshtt. You have to breath, eat, and die, but you don't have to put up with any bullshtt. Why tell yourself that? To be around a woman so you can be happy? So here you are, putting up with her bs and yet you don't sound happy to me.

I am happier when I'm around women. If it's somebody I like, the feeling is stronger. But yes, eventually that happy feeling goes away and is replaced with sadness because I know that I can't do things I really want to.

 

You don't deserve to have a girl in your life? Relationships aren't rewards doled out by fate to the pure at heart, relationships are developed, nurtured and grown.

I wish I could believe you. I really don't see any reason why I can't make anybody like me. I don't believe that I'm undatable, though maybe there is something about me that I can't see. But from what my life has been, my happiness is something for fate to decide.

They can sense that type of desperation a mile away. Hey man, I know its a vicious circle. You can't attract the woman you want and it messes with your confidence but you have to "fake it until you make it." Realize that YOU do have WORTH and maybe it's time to get professional counseling so that you can see it. I think a big part of your problem is being needy and too happy to be there when you are around a woman. Even the NICEST woman will EAT YOU ALIVE if you display that kind of "I'll do anything to be around you" attitude.

I am trying to fake it. And I'm trying not to be desperate. But as you said, women can sense it, even if they are not aware.

 

I've been though counseling but it doesn't help. There is no point in trying to trick myself into believing that I have the worth. If women don't like me, they don't like me. No amount of affirmations is going to change that.

 

As for being needy, I really think that I don't seem that way. I rarely call or text girls and give them plenty of space even though I would want to be with them.

YOU DID GET A SOLID REJECTION WHEN SHE WOULDN'T DATE YOU. Why wouldn't she be alone with you? She probably likes your company but that doesn't mean that any romance is ever going to occur. She may know you like her and she's hoping you change your mind so you can just stay friends. She likes you as a friend but nothing else.

Her not dating me wasn't a good enough rejection for me. Because if she was spending time alone with me, I could still try to kiss her or get her a little tipsy and maybe something would happen. Those are the thoughts that I clang to.

 

If she was hoping I'd change my mind, I was hoping she'd change hers.

 

Women help you when they like you.

And when they never like you?

 

I just can't wait around hoping that somebody is going to make it easy on me.

You just need some confidence and self-worth.

I wish I knew how to get some, while being alone. I have always had very low self-esteem. The only way I can think of to change it, is to start having some success with women.

Root of your problem, dude.

 

Ever notice that guys who could give a flying F about whether they have women around, almost always have women around?

Chicken and the egg.

 

Obviously somebody who is surrounded by women, isn't going to care if they are around or not.

Hey somedude take it from me brother, you're approaching 30 so you're not quite old enough yet, but when you get closer to 40, all the middle-age horizontally disadvantaged single lonely dateless women will begin hunting you down like vultures on live prey. You'll have plenty of these to choose from in the years to come if you're willing to 'settle'.

Dude, that's a very depressing thought. I don't know if you are trying to be helpful or not.

 

Either way, there is no way I'm going to spend the next 10 years of my life with nobody in it. That is not going to happen...

[Jeff M Stevens]

LOL....I definately wouldn't take advice from someone who refers to himself as "Doc LOOOOOVE".

 

I mean, really?

 

 

Sorry, I don't think I can take someone who refers to themselve as "Doc Love" seriously.

 

Never asked you to take him "seriously." You have to make up your mind as to whether or not you want to follow him. You've decided not to. I respect that. However, all you have is "its crap" at first and then "I don't like his name." after I pointed out his success with FOX, Time, Book Sales, AskMen and more.

 

You may not personally like him but you cannot deny his success. No one can.

 

This is the last response I will give you until you start giving me facts instead of opinions. You have every right to your opinion but it's pointless for me to talk to someone that just wants to sling mud without anything behind it.

[Jeff M Stevens]

My bad, haha but I went back and re read your post so lemme try again. Basically you're asking the possibility of a girl who's into a guy, but doesn't feel secure enough yet to put further trust in the guy because he's trying to be conservative in his approach to her (i.e your friendly example)?

 

I think with that, you need to evaluate whether you have the right balance of friendly and flirtatious. Like you said, a girl will probably get annoyed if the guy isn't aggressive enough (just like waiting too long to call). And as I mentioned, we shouldn't be afraid of jumping through hoops for girls. Because if they're mature enough, they'll see it as a good thing rather than a bad thing. Think of it the opposite in a deep relationship. If you've been madly in love with someone for years, wouldn't you always say and show that you'd do anything for them? Flashing that sort of commitment early on probably builds a ton of trust in the girl.

 

 

 

It's Doc Love, I've read enough of his articles in the past to know what NOT to do. The dude has more insecurity issues than a 15 year old chick with slutty tendencies. Sure his methods are great for finding a girl that will be overly obsessed with you (i.e. as Jeff said before, tossing the number of a girl who even tries to compromise a day for the date. How immature and selfish can you be to do that?). But A) those are for the top 0.0001 who can make a woman that obsessed with them and B) unless she's completely normal otherwise, she's probably bat**** crazy and you wouldn't want her.

 

At least get what I said right. I only said toss the number if you get turned down WITHOUT a counteroffer. If I ask a girl out for Monday and she says "I can't make it Monday but how about Tuesday" I can live with that as long as I believe she's sincere. Never said that I wouldn't compromise on a date.

 

And like the other guy on the board, you like to personally attack Doc. "more insecurity issues than a 15 year old chick?"

 

Sorry, people with that serious of a problem do not last on the #1 Men's Web site in the world for over 10 years, get on FOX News with a live interview, sell tens of thousands of books, and get featured in Time Magazine.

 

You may not agree with Doc and you don't have to. I respect your opinion. However, his success is well documented and proven. I'm not going to let you just throw mud at him without responding because what you said is outlandish and false.

[youngskywalker]

Crap! I really hate when this question comes up because I second guess myself all the time.

 

Where do you draw the line between "chasing" and "forcing"?

 

I've always bailed whenever the girl isn't showing interest back after I make effort to see her, talk to her, text her. I'll try a couple of times but if she doesn't make effort then it's her bad. Let her sit.

 

I love to chase but it's a girls job to keep the chase going. So in my case(s) no, I don' think I give up too early.

[Jeff M Stevens]

SomeDude, I'm NO professional but it seems as if you need professional help that is beyond the scope of this board. I understand how you could feel squashed emotionally when a primal need like having a good woman in your life is not there, but wandering around with crushed self-esteem and obvious unhappiness is something very bad.

 

I suggest you get some counseling man. I don't say that to hurt you at all...its just that you seem so deep in a pit I think you need some help to get out. I bet you are WAY better of a guy than you think you are.

 

One of my favorite authors, Eric Hofer said "If we all treated others as we treat ourselves, we'd become firebrand revolutionaries"

 

If someone was treating you the way you treat you, you'd probably be very angry.

 

Anyway, good luck man. I don't think anyone on this board can offer you advice because you're just so down.

 

I hope you pull out of it because you seem like a good person and no good person should have to feel the way you do.

[Jeff M Stevens]

Careful...if you post too much truth around here you may get banned.

 

LOL...you're one of the few on here that is making any sense. Tough to fight the good fight of common sense, eh?

 

[grungesponge]

It's not the easiest thing in the world to go out on a limb and ask a girl out. If she doesn't have the decency to respond or is wishy washy about it after I put myself out there then no, I am not going to pursue it any further. I prefer to date a woman that appreciates the offer and shows interest.

 

Obviously, people have busy schedules, but it is a little pretentious to have the attitude that a guy should cater to your schedule and make all the effort. I'll take a pass on that and wait for someone who is excited about the possibility.

[xRJ85x]

Yes you have it correct and that does answer my query and I can understand their 'testing' to determine if the guy really is interested and not just playing games and will show that level of interest with some more follow up effort and initiative. I have to some how come to terms with not thinking I am some kind of creep for making more than a single conservative friendly approach.

 

I'm sure as long as you deliver your interest in the right way, "jump through the hoops correctly" so to speak, she'll know you just really like her, and aren't obsessed/lonely/etc.

 

At least get what I said right. I only said toss the number if you get turned down WITHOUT a counteroffer. If I ask a girl out for Monday and she says "I can't make it Monday but how about Tuesday" I can live with that as long as I believe she's sincere. Never said that I wouldn't compromise on a date.

 

And like the other guy on the board, you like to personally attack Doc. "more insecurity issues than a 15 year old chick?"

 

Sorry, people with that serious of a problem do not last on the #1 Men's Web site in the world for over 10 years, get on FOX News with a live interview, sell tens of thousands of books, and get featured in Time Magazine.

 

You may not agree with Doc and you don't have to. I respect your opinion. However, his success is well documented and proven. I'm not going to let you just throw mud at him without responding because what you said is outlandish and false.

 

Fair enough, I read it wrong. Bottom line is I've read enough of his stuff on AskMen to know he's about playing games, and while some of it may work in certain situations, it will screw a guy in another.

 

As far as being successful, he promotes himself well. Every article he writes had some form of "You did such and such wrong, which is why I know you didn't buy my book, The System!" The world is filled with people who have no clue about the product they're selling, but they market themselves well, so they have success. I'll never forget the perfect example of this when I went to look at a 350Z at a Nissan dealership. Salesman was great with his communication and delivery, but by the end of of the conversation everything he knew about the car minus the MSRP was from what I told him. He had absolutely no idea about anything technical about the car. He'd probably have no problem selling the car to someone who knew about as much as he did, and there are plenty of those. And we know how many men in the world are clueless when it comes to women. So looking for hope, just like I did, they'll buy into whatever they can that "might" help them. Not saying Doc Love is clueless, but he's on a whole different wavelength when it comes to women. Clearly he's pitching tips for women with a completely different mindset than the average guy is looking for. As I said before, the very rare women who would fall in love with you before the first date.

 

As you can see here, there's plenty of us who had no problem getting a first date calling 2-3 days after getting her number. Whereas I'm sure there's been plenty of guys who waited Doc's 5-9 days and got "Ummm...who?" when they finally called the woman.

[Jeff M Stevens]

I'm sure as long as you deliver your interest in the right way, "jump through the hoops correctly" so to speak, she'll know you just really like her, and aren't obsessed/lonely/etc.

 

 

 

Fair enough, I read it wrong. Bottom line is I've read enough of his stuff on AskMen to know he's about playing games, and while some of it may work in certain situations, it will screw a guy in another. Again, you're entitled to your opinion but I disagree. Doc teaches guys that if a woman can forget you after 5-9 days of non contact, she was either uptight or not interested. Either one you don't want. And its not games.....its just reality as to how a guy should approach the idea of long term relationships. Again, though, you have a different opinion and I respect your right to disagree

As far as being successful, he promotes himself well. Every article he writes had some form of "You did such and such wrong, which is why I know you didn't buy my book, The System!" The world is filled with people who have no clue about the product they're selling, but they market themselves well, so they have success. I'll never forget the perfect example of this when I went to look at a 350Z at a Nissan dealership. Salesman was great with his communication and delivery, but by the end of of the conversation everything he knew about the car minus the MSRP was from what I told him. He had absolutely no idea about anything technical about the car. He'd probably have no problem selling the car to someone who knew about as much as he did, and there are plenty of those. And we know how many men in the world are clueless when it comes to women. So looking for hope, just like I did, they'll buy into whatever they can that "might" help them. Not saying Doc Love is clueless, but he's on a whole different wavelength when it comes to women. Clearly he's pitching tips for women with a completely different mindset than the average guy is looking for. As I said before, the very rare women who would fall in love with you before the first date.

Doc never claims that a woman will fall in love after the first date, in fact, its quite the opposite. He believes men fall in love much faster and women take more of a calculated approach which is why a guy going in slower is a guy that has an advantage. Also, he does have great product knowledge as he's interviewed over 10,000 women asking them why they choose to stay with one man versus another. What Doc has learned from women, he teaches to men. It's uncomfortable for a lot of people because most of the other love doctors come from what women say they want as opposed to what they actually react to. Doc does know the car back and forth and probably could engineer the thing

 

As you can see here, there's plenty of us who had no problem getting a first date calling 2-3 days after getting her number. Whereas I'm sure there's been plenty of guys who waited Doc's 5-9 days and got "Ummm...who?" when they finally called the woman.

Doc is not about just getting the first date. There are PLENTY of guys that can get a woman to go out on the first date. The key is, can you last over the long term? Doc believes that if she can forget you after 5-9 days then she was either not that interested or uptight and as you move on in the relationship, neither qualities are good for long term.

 

When you get the girl to go out after 2-3 days from getting her #, you never know whether or not she was going to remember you or not. Too many guys get the # and just think getting a date is the end game.

 

No, the end game is to make sure that you have a easygoing girl on your hands that is really interested and keep her that way. It's not about getting a date.

 

Getting a date is only a step to getting something else, whether it be sex (which Doc doesn't talk about) or a relationship (which Doc specializes in).

 

Since each subsequent date should tell you what type of girl you have and if she is really interested, you should get a picture of whether or not you want to make her your girlfriend, fiance and ultimately wife.

 

It's not about getting a date because too many guys just "date" and then all of a sudden, BAM...they're in love and married and then summarily divorced because they selected a woman that wasn't too interested to begin with or she's uptight.

 

They could have found all that out by waiting 5-9 days to call before date 1!

 

At any rate, thanks for writing back with thoughtful answers. I don't expect to turn you to my way of thinking but I do appreciate the intelligent debate.

 

Thanks again

[somedude81]

SomeDude, I'm NO professional but it seems as if you need professional help that is beyond the scope of this board. I understand how you could feel squashed emotionally when a primal need like having a good woman in your life is not there, but wandering around with crushed self-esteem and obvious unhappiness is something very bad.

How is counseling and professional help going to make a difference?

 

All I want to do is find a woman.

 

If I can do that without going through electroshock hypnotherapy, then that's what I'd like to do.

 

There has got be a way for me to somehow attract a woman I meet in school enough so that she wants to date me.

 

It's not like I'm asking for world peace.

[Jeff M Stevens]

How is counseling and professional help going to make a difference?

 

All I want to do is find a woman.

 

If I can do that without going through electroshock hypnotherapy, then that's what I'd like to do.

 

There has got be a way for me to somehow attract a woman I meet in school enough so that she wants to date me.

 

It's not like I'm asking for world peace.

 

I suggested getting help because your self-esteem, world view and attitude are off the richter scale negative. One of the biggest lies in Movie History is the line from Jerry MaGuire "you complete me" and I think you're operating under the assumption that someone out there will "complete you."

 

It seems as if you think having a woman will be the end all and be all of your life and it won't be. Don't get me wrong, having a nice and attractive girl to be with is a noble goal but you do have to be ok with you and it doesn't seem like you're ok with you.

 

You're looking outside yourself for happiness and you have to look inside. I know that sounds cliche and inner happiness doesn't do much for you on a lonely Friday night but I believe things build on themselves.

 

What I mean by that is the trajectory that you're on now is one where you are looking for a relationship and a woman to be the end goal of your life to make you content and that vibe is coming off to potential girls you might be meeting.

 

Women will smell neediness a mile away and like I said before, even the nicest one will eat you alive if they think they can. It's just the way they are...they test us as men to make sure we have a backbone, which is what they're biologically hardwired to want.

 

Right now, you are so damaged inside that you just can't see past your own pain. It is way beyond my area of expertise to help you fix that but I think that you'll increase your odds of finding a girl the more you like you.

 

I know you'll have a bunch of responses as to why what I said won't work for you and you can save them. You and I have told each other basically the same things in different ways for several posts now.

 

All I can say is I wish you luck and hope you find the happiness you are striving for.

 

And as a postscript, I can tell you that I understand where you're coming from man. A lot of guys feel the way you do. Nice guys that just really want someone in their lives. I totally get it. However, you live in your head 24/7. There is no one that can assure you or be there for you 24/7 like you yourself can be.

 

There is no woman on the planet that can have as big as an effect on you as your own inner voice. If you think that having a great girl is the key to getting that inner voice to somehow be happy happy joy joy all the time, think again.

 

Don't get me wrong, having a great girl can be an AWESOME thing but you do have to have that inner voice be ok with you. It's ultimately all you got because what you say to yourself is what you believe about yourself.

 

Good luck man.

[somedude81]

Thank you for your posts Jeff. It's obvious you put in a lot of thought.

I think you're operating under the assumption that someone out there will "complete you."

You are exactly right. I'm trying to find the missing piece.

 

It seems as if you think having a woman will be the end all and be all of your life and it won't be.

.....

 

There is no woman on the planet that can have as big as an effect on you as your own inner voice. If you think that having a great girl is the key to getting that inner voice to somehow be happy happy joy joy all the time, think again.

That's not something I can just hear and accept. I need to find out for myself. Some thing's, people just need to experience to understand.

 

If a girl is not the answer, then I'll at least know that. Then I can look for the real issue.

 

Women will smell neediness a mile away and like I said before, even the nicest one will eat you alive if they think they can. It's just the way they are...they test us as men to make sure we have a backbone, which is what they're biologically hardwired to want.

Then I'm screwed because I can't stop being needy when I need something.

 

As for having a backbone, I do not let women use, push me around or disrespect me.

[counterman]

I usually give a girl a call once and move on if she doesn't pick up or call me back if she misses the call. Some have said that I give up too easily and that I must not have really been interested in these girls, but that's not true. I approached them, flirted, asked them out and got their phone numbers - how's that not interested?. The fact is my miss call or voice mail is there for the girl to see. She knows what my number is. If she is really interested, she'll call back. Maybe I should give her the benefit of the doubt, I don't know. From my the experience, the ones that were interested picked up straight away or called me back.

 

If its a ploy by girls to gauge how interested the guy is, well, I am not going to bother. She can just take it that I am not interested for all I care.