Update and Issues

[allhopelost]

It has been a while since I last posted and it has been 437 days since DDay.

All and all things seem have become bearable, until recently. I had left a note that I discovered in its hiding place between my WW and her AP just to see of WW would think she had a “safe” location to hide things from me. I hadn’t checked the location since about day 20 after DDay, until this morning. Things have been a little “off” in our communication and there are other signs that things are not quite right.

For example, I monitor the cell phone usage daily, all incoming and outgoing texts and calls. Lately there have been quite a few calls from her phone to her voicemail, yet there are no records of any strange calls showing up on the call log. She keeps her phone turned off during working hours so I am thinking that she may be getting calls from someone while the phone is off and they are going directly to her voicemail with no trail. Starting today I am periodically calling into her voicemail to see if this is the case.

That and her mood has been making my stomach start to turn, so I snooped in her "safe place" today and found another note that she had written to him but didn’t give. I am thinking, since he got fired from his job where they work back in December of last year (@ 45 days after discovery) she had written it to him around that time and didn’t have the opportunity to give it to him in their “safe” environment at work.

All along I have been trying to get the truth about her real feelings for him, frankly because I believe her to be lying about the depth of her feelings for him. She has sworn that there was no love, that she likeed the way he made her “feel” and that was it. It makes me sick to think about how “he” made “her” feel.

Long story short, I read this note and it goes something like this:

Quote - “I have been trying and trying to go on and pretend you don’t even exist, and the more I try the more of a miserable person I become. You are constantly in my head, it doesn’t matter what I do you are there. You probably think I am a rotten person, its ok if you do. I am not in any way upset or mad at you. I don’t hate you, it’s the total opposite. I am so mad at myself for letting any of this happen.

The sad thing is I don’t care.”

My question is this: Is this a normal response shortly after the end of an affair for a woman to feel this way, and does it mean that in her head I am second best to this guy? Is the door open for them to get back together if the opportunity should present itself? I think I could overlook this if it were within a very, very short time after discovery, however if it was recently that she wrote this I feel like there is little hope for recovery. I cannot take the fact of knowing that he is in her head still and she is devoting thoughts and time to somebody other than me and recovering our relationship. It makes me question everything about myself and my self worth is tanking. It is bad enough the dynamics of this affair and the specifics of it, as there is no way I can become what it is she found in this guy that she obviously likes or loves. I honestly feel like I have nothing I can give, there is nothing I can do, and that any hopes I might have held onto about rebuilding our relationship were only pipe dreams, and there will never be anything I could offer any other woman. I have almost conceded to myself the fact that there will never be any more fulfilling relationships in my future.

Who could love a doormat cuckold with no self esteem and no confidence anyways? Even I must admit that I couldn’t.

[Bryanp]

I am so sorry for you. My take on the letter is that if there was an opportunity to be with him she would be in a heartbeat. You are very correct that nobody respect a doormat. If the roles had been reversed do you think she would have been so accepting of everything as you have been? If you do not respect yourself then who will?

[aeh]

I do not agree with Bryanp.

 

I think it could be a couple of things. First off, she might have written it with no intention of ever sending it. It might have been an outlet for what she was feeling at the time. Also, I do not read into it at all that she would be with him in a heartbeat. I read that she wishes she hadn't visited that painful place, she hadn't brought all that heartache on anyone and she is doing what she has to do to recover. It does sound like she was depressed when she was writing it. I think she was trying to clear him out of her head and wasn't having much luck that day. She said he might think she's a rotten person and that's ok. She has accepted that he might think that but so be it.

[ladydesigner]

I do not agree with Bryanp.

 

I think it could be a couple of things. First off, she might have written it with no intention of ever sending it. It might have been an outlet for what she was feeling at the time. Also, I do not read into it at all that she would be with him in a heartbeat. I read that she wishes she hadn't visited that painful place, she hadn't brought all that heartache on anyone and she is doing what she has to do to recover. It does sound like she was depressed when she was writing it. I think she was trying to clear him out of her head and wasn't having much luck that day. She said he might think she's a rotten person and that's ok. She has accepted that he might think that but so be it.

 

I agree with aeh. The fact that she is still there willing to work on the marriage is a good sign. It took me 2 years to get my XAP out of my head. I would not want to be with my XAP if I was given the chance. I would still choose my H and my M. Are you both in MC?

[Snowflower]

It has been a while since I last posted and it has been 437 days since DDay.

All and all things seem have become bearable, until recently. I had left a note that I discovered in its hiding place between my WW and her AP just to see of WW would think she had a “safe” location to hide things from me. I hadn’t checked the location since about day 20 after DDay, until this morning. Things have been a little “off” in our communication and there are other signs that things are not quite right.

For example, I monitor the cell phone usage daily, all incoming and outgoing texts and calls. Lately there have been quite a few calls from her phone to her voicemail, yet there are no records of any strange calls showing up on the call log. She keeps her phone turned off during working hours so I am thinking that she may be getting calls from someone while the phone is off and they are going directly to her voicemail with no trail. Starting today I am periodically calling into her voicemail to see if this is the case.

I see two separate issues here. One is your gut feeling that something isn't quite right coupled with her calls to her voicemail.

 

I think you should quietly continue to investigate her voicemail to see what you can find out. It seems so sad that you have to do this but I completely understand why you feel the need to do so. My cell phone provider's bills work the same way, which I figured out after d-day.

 

I'm so sorry you are feeling this way after a year.

All along I have been trying to get the truth about her real feelings for him, frankly because I believe her to be lying about the depth of her feelings for him. She has sworn that there was no love, that she likeed the way he made her “feel” and that was it. It makes me sick to think about how “he” made “her” feel.

Long story short, I read this note and it goes something like this:

Quote - “I have been trying and trying to go on and pretend you don’t even exist, and the more I try the more of a miserable person I become. You are constantly in my head, it doesn’t matter what I do you are there. You probably think I am a rotten person, its ok if you do. I am not in any way upset or mad at you. I don’t hate you, it’s the total opposite. I am so mad at myself for letting any of this happen.

The sad thing is I don’t care.”

My question is this: Is this a normal response shortly after the end of an affair for a woman to feel this way, and does it mean that in her head I am second best to this guy? Is the door open for them to get back together if the opportunity should present itself? I think I could overlook this if it were within a very, very short time after discovery, however if it was recently that she wrote this I feel like there is little hope for recovery. I cannot take the fact of knowing that he is in her head still and she is devoting thoughts and time to somebody other than me and recovering our relationship.

 

This is the second issue: I think you need to know the depth of your wife's feelings for the OM. Many WS will not be honest about this in fear of hurting their BS more and to save their own azz. It's called trickle-truthing and is as bad or worse than the actual betrayal.

 

I would show your wife her note (don't warn her ahead of time) at a time when she is not distracted with something else and you guys have the time to talk about it.

It makes me question everything about myself and my self worth is tanking. It is bad enough the dynamics of this affair and the specifics of it, as there is no way I can become what it is she found in this guy that she obviously likes or loves. I honestly feel like I have nothing I can give, there is nothing I can do, and that any hopes I might have held onto about rebuilding our relationship were only pipe dreams, and there will never be anything I could offer any other woman. I have almost conceded to myself the fact that there will never be any more fulfilling relationships in my future.

Who could love a doormat cuckold with no self esteem and no confidence anyways? Even I must admit that I couldn’t.

 

Every BS feels the way you describe here. The best thing I can tell you from one BS to another is to look inside yourself for your own strength. Do not rely in anyway on your wife, family, or marriage to help you find fulfillment. You need that inner strength to come to terms with what happened.

 

This is no easy task for many BS. It took me nearly 2 years after d-day to come to this realization and act on it. IMO, you are looking to your wife to validate you and your self-esteem (no slam intended, honest!). However, you need to do this for yourself. It will rebuild your self-confidence/esteem so that you can handle whatever happens next (separation, divorce or continued reconciliation). Think of it as a gift you give yourself and only for yourself. It has everything to do with you and nothing to do with your marriage or your wife.

 

As BS, we sometimes get so caught up in saving our marriages and trying to figure out why the one person we trusted and loved above all others could do this to us, that we forget to look inside ourselves for what we need.

 

I hope that all makes sense.

[Distant78]

I think it could be a couple of things. First off, she might have written it with no intention of ever sending it. It might have been an outlet for what she was feeling at the time.

 

Doesn't matter if she never planned to send it. The fact is she's cheating and thinking about another man other than the one she vowed to spend her life with and love unconditionally.

 

Also, I do not read into it at all that she would be with him in a heartbeat. I read that she wishes she hadn't visited that painful place, she hadn't brought all that heartache on anyone and she is doing what she has to do to recover.

 

Really? So she just wrote about some random guy because she's depressed? Why try and defend her. Her letters are as obvious as bloodstains on clean bedsheets.

 

It does sound like she was depressed when she was writing it. I think she was trying to clear him out of her head and wasn't having much luck that day. She said he might think she's a rotten person and that's ok. She has accepted that he might think that but so be it.

 

So she writes about how loving she feels being around him because she's depressed? That has nothing to do with depression and you know it. It's about her latching onto some other punk she met at work and not giving a crap about her marriage.

[Distant78]

It has been a while since I last posted and it has been 437 days since DDay.

All and all things seem have become bearable, until recently. I had left a note that I discovered in its hiding place between my WW and her AP just to see of WW would think she had a “safe” location to hide things from me. I hadn’t checked the location since about day 20 after DDay, until this morning. Things have been a little “off” in our communication and there are other signs that things are not quite right.

For example, I monitor the cell phone usage daily, all incoming and outgoing texts and calls. Lately there have been quite a few calls from her phone to her voicemail, yet there are no records of any strange calls showing up on the call log. She keeps her phone turned off during working hours so I am thinking that she may be getting calls from someone while the phone is off and they are going directly to her voicemail with no trail. Starting today I am periodically calling into her voicemail to see if this is the case.

That and her mood has been making my stomach start to turn, so I snooped in her "safe place" today and found another note that she had written to him but didn’t give. I am thinking, since he got fired from his job where they work back in December of last year (@ 45 days after discovery) she had written it to him around that time and didn’t have the opportunity to give it to him in their “safe” environment at work.

All along I have been trying to get the truth about her real feelings for him, frankly because I believe her to be lying about the depth of her feelings for him. She has sworn that there was no love, that she likeed the way he made her “feel” and that was it. It makes me sick to think about how “he” made “her” feel.

Long story short, I read this note and it goes something like this:

Quote - “I have been trying and trying to go on and pretend you don’t even exist, and the more I try the more of a miserable person I become. You are constantly in my head, it doesn’t matter what I do you are there. You probably think I am a rotten person, its ok if you do. I am not in any way upset or mad at you. I don’t hate you, it’s the total opposite. I am so mad at myself for letting any of this happen.

The sad thing is I don’t care.”

My question is this: Is this a normal response shortly after the end of an affair for a woman to feel this way, and does it mean that in her head I am second best to this guy? Is the door open for them to get back together if the opportunity should present itself? I think I could overlook this if it were within a very, very short time after discovery, however if it was recently that she wrote this I feel like there is little hope for recovery. I cannot take the fact of knowing that he is in her head still and she is devoting thoughts and time to somebody other than me and recovering our relationship. It makes me question everything about myself and my self worth is tanking. It is bad enough the dynamics of this affair and the specifics of it, as there is no way I can become what it is she found in this guy that she obviously likes or loves. I honestly feel like I have nothing I can give, there is nothing I can do, and that any hopes I might have held onto about rebuilding our relationship were only pipe dreams, and there will never be anything I could offer any other woman. I have almost conceded to myself the fact that there will never be any more fulfilling relationships in my future.

Who could love a doormat cuckold with no self esteem and no confidence anyways? Even I must admit that I couldn’t.

 

Man don't feel this way because of your wife's selfishness. She's the one with the issues and the one who never cared to think about her marriage before she cheated. It's okay to mourn over this but don't ever feel like you're not worth something because there's plenty of other women out there that are searching for a man that can be faithful. Just worry about yourself and your health from now on and don't lean on her for support. If I were you, I'd be gearing up for divorce. Most betrayed spouses never regain those innocent, loving feelings once their partner decides to cheat. I feel for you man.

[alexandria35]

Something just occured to me about your wife constantly checking her voicemail even when there are no incoming calls logged.

 

My voicemail has an option to send a message straight to someone elses voicemail. I have never used this option as it never made sense to me to go into my own voicemail to send a voicemail. I mean why wouldn't I just call the person and then leave a message if I reached that person's voicemail right? However the thought just came to me that this might be a clever way for cheaters to communicate on the sly. I don't know if a voicemail to voicemail message would be logged on cell phone records. I don't think it would be.

[PortuguesePrincess80]

Something just occured to me about your wife constantly checking her voicemail even when there are no incoming calls logged.

 

My voicemail has an option to send a message straight to someone elses voicemail. I have never used this option as it never made sense to me to go into my own voicemail to send a voicemail. I mean why wouldn't I just call the person and then leave a message if I reached that person's voicemail right? However the thought just came to me that this might be a clever way for cheaters to communicate on the sly. I don't know if a voicemail to voicemail message would be logged on cell phone records. I don't think it would be.

 

 

Ummm...I believe thats what he suspects is happening with the wife! My only question is...how the hell did u figure 437 days? LOL Sorry I just had to ask!

[whichwayisup]

Forget the letter, unless it's recent. I assume it's from a long time ago, when she was in the affair fog and in withdrawal from OM.

 

Your gut - Listen to it. If it don't feel right, then do more investigating or just come right out and tell her that you are feeling suspicious and her behaviour is setting off red flags. Make it clear to her that if she is back in contact with the OM and is cheating again, she can pack her bags immediately and go to him and not come home. Force her hand!

[alexandria35]

Ummm...I believe thats what he suspects is happening with the wife! My only question is...how the hell did u figure 437 days? LOL Sorry I just had to ask!

 

Well actually, he suspects that incoming calls are going directly to her voicemail. With voicemail to voicemail messaging you don't actually call the person you are leaving the message for. And his wife could also be sending messages in the same manner, so it's kind of the same thing but not quite.

[allhopelost]

Thank you all for your perspectives. Coping with infidelity is the single hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life. The only thing that I can imagine would be worse is the death of ones child.

 

The perspectives of my WW's mental state, i.e. depression, were bang on. I did gently confront her about the note last night and she honestly says she doesn't even remember writing it. She had, post DDay, confessed that she hated herself for doing what she was doing, and had unsuccessfully tried to break it off on two separate occasions during the 12 weeks or so that her affair was being conducted. She still to this day doesn't know why she was unable to do so and what the real attraction was. And I tend to believe her, as she was not the woman that I had fallen in love with and married during that time. She is so embarrassed over the whole thing, which in my opinion is a good thing. To the best of my knowledge, she has not broken NC with her former AP, but I will continue to discreetly monitor her phone and her location history via GPS.

 

I read in another post that people get tired of snooping, of always trying to validate and rebuild the trustworthiness of their WS. It is very taxing, and I am one that is slightly obsessive compulsive, so it is very hard not to become completely consumed with it.

 

We have been going to joint MC constantly since DDay, and to be honest, I really don’t think either one of us would be around right now had we not had support through counseling. The post affair depression was debilitating, and we are still suffering from the consequences of that despair.

My children suspect that I did something to train wreck our marriage and my relationship with them has suffered, I was demoted at work due to my inability to focus for 6 months, I now smoke twice as much as I used to… the list goes on and on. My wife and I no longer socialize with anyone outside of family due to the nasty rumors going around and the general malice people feel about us, and the opinions they have formed in either camp. Basically we have paid a huge price to try and reconcile and rebuild. I would caution those that are on the fence about whether or not to become a cheating spouse to consider all the ramifications of their decision beforehand.

 

It is truly a major life altering event for everybody, and not in a good way.