Am I Being Naive Or What? - What Would You Do/Have Done?

[naiveornot]

Three months ago I met this Chinese lady on Chemistry. I'm Caucasian, around 40. She is around the same age as me. She was the one who initiated the contact. Her ad said 'single', 'no kids', 'live alone' and '24k-29k' yearly income, and looking for 'a boyfriend'. Her photo looked appealing so I thought, 'why not'.

 

On the first date I learned that she had a 17-year old living with her. I also learned that her parents lived with her (she is the oldest of three siblings and apparently, according to Chinese culture, the oldest oftentimes takes care of the elders blah blah blah - whatever). BUT, I decided to keep an open mind. I am not getting any younger, as the saying goes. So we started seeing each other.

 

She told me it would not be possible to see her at her house at least for a while (she mentioned around 6 months) until her son goes to college. I have had two previous experiences dating single mothers and this sounded kind of familiar. I decided to just go with the flow. For the first couple of months we sated our carnal desires either at my place or at one of her several empty houses (her 24k-29k yearly income statement was 'slightly' off, as well). On average we did this once-twice a week tops - she never spending the night - and sometimes also ate lunch together.

 

After a couple of months (I blame myself that it took me so long, but I actually felt I was falling in love with this girl, and we had a REALLY good, unique chemistry together), I noticed this peculiar pattern: she NEVER called me from her house. Not once. EVERY SINGLE TIME she called was from her cell, out of her car (one time she called from her work bathroom!). The excuse given to me had something to do with her son being nosy and her not being comfortable talking to her "boyfriend" (this is what I was to her, app.) from inside her own house and from the privacy of her own bedroom, for fear of him listening in or something. She only 'texts' at night, therefore.

 

OK, fine. For the first two months. Now, all of a sudden, I am smelling a rat, and it is freaking me out. So I stopped calling her and replying to her stupid texts at night, when I would instead love to hear my "girlfriend's" voice rather than letting my fingers do the walkin'. She kept calling. Finally I answered and explained to her politely why I thought she was full of it and why, if she was in my place, she would probably blow me off herself. She started crying and weeping, telling me she was telling the truth, blah blah blah. She was totally braking down over the phone, begging me to meet her and tell her all this in person. I took pity on all this weeping and so we met. I repeated all I had told her over the phone, and it seemed to make sense to her, but all she offered was, 'please wait for three more months'.

 

I think this is total BS. I am a passionate person and my passionate instinct tells me I totally want to blow her off and tell her to stop calling. I feel duped and naive - and completely blame myself for being so stupid. I feel that, HAD her personal ad said she was looking for a 'friend and a lover' ( a f* buddy), it would have been perfectly clear. As it stands, we are being exactly that, but she claims she 'loves me so much' and doesn't want to loose me.

 

Is this woman totally off the wall, Chinese culture or not? What would you do in my shoes?

Edited December 15, 2010 by naiveornot

[youngskywalker]

I am a passionate person and my passionate instinct tells me I totally want to blow her off and tell her to stop calling. I feel duped.

 

Only you know the situation. Are you sure she doesn't have a husband at home or going through a divorce?

[naiveornot]

The husband question always lurks in the background. I have asked (and insinuated) many times. She assured me she has been divorced for years and her husband is in China. They have an active business connection still, apparently, but according to her, absolutely nothing personal.

 

The situation is pretty much as I described it. It is a young relationship... I don't expect much at all. I think I would stick with it at least until I could see more signs for commitment IF it were not for this 'no calling' anomaly. Who would go for such rule? (except me)

Edited December 15, 2010 by naiveornot

[TaraMaiden]

Smell a rat...?

You know the Pied Piper, right....?

Well I smell a whole bunch of them.

 

Ok, push it.

This may well be a cultural clash, but she's not in China any more, she's wherever you are.

 

Go to her house, and ask to be let in.

Talk to her parents, meet her son...

You have a right for them to know that you are in her life.

Imagine the lie she might be living at home....

[Untouchable_Fire]

The husband question always lurks in the background. I have asked (and insinuated) many times. She assured me she has been divorced for years and her husband is in China. They have an active business connection still, apparently, but according to her, absolutely nothing personal.

The situation is pretty much as I described it. It is a young relationship... I don't expect much at all. I think I would stick with it at least until I could see more signs for commitment IF it were not for this 'no calling' anomaly. Who would go for such rule? (except me)

 

I'd say just stop freaking out. Seriously... what do you have to lose vs. what do you have to gain.

 

I have a friend who went through something very similar with at Chinese lady. Family is VERY important to them... and they have big issues with dating an American guy. She may not be able to introduce you to her family until she is certain you are very very serious.

 

It's a really bad mark against her if her family finds out she is dating American guys. They will forgive it... if you two get married. Otherwise they will often just see you as a user.

 

You aired your concerns. You can sit back and give her 3 more months and see what happens... or you can dump her and go back to the same women who have failed with you for the last 22 years or so. Your choice.

 

Smell a rat...?

You know the Pied Piper, right....?

Well I smell a whole bunch of them.

Ok, push it.

This may well be a cultural clash, but she's not in China any more, she's wherever you are.

Go to her house, and ask to be let in.

Talk to her parents, meet her son...

You have a right for them to know that you are in her life.

Imagine the lie she might be living at home....

 

That is not good advice. It is potentially dangerous for both himself and her.

 

Would you give this same advice to a man who was dating a woman with an extremely strict muslim background?

 

Look... most American families don't give a crap who their daughter dates. People from other countries actually care, and can be xenophobic about it.

[O'Malley]

I'm from an immigrant (though non-Asian) family, so I can see both sides of it. I was expected to introduce initial dates to my family before anything became serious.

 

While it is true some immigrant families are absolutely against or highly cautious about dating outside of their culture, her situation is something that she should have discussed with you initially. If she's not ready to adapt to American dating culture, why place an ad on a dating site? The fact that she hid that she had a son, besides her overall secretive behavior, just lends itself to further speculation.

 

I see nothing wrong with telling her that you want to be introduced to her family; as TaraMaiden stated, you do have the right to be known to them. If she is unwilling to do this, then a relationship is untenable.

Edited December 15, 2010 by O'Malley

[yah]

Well I'm Chinese American so I have sympathy for her. I don't know her but it sounds very plausible and something I could imagine a Chinese person would do if they were single in their 40s. See, to be a Chinese woman single in her 40s, divorced and with a kid, is kind of stigmatized as "failure" if her family is old-fashion (which they sound like they are). To be dating again has another stigma attached. I don't know why but its expected they just be content they've "failed" and should stay home to care for son and parents and not think of dating at all. Anyway, if she were to bring you home, and this relationship didn't work out, well then she would've "failed" again in her and her family's eyes. That's HUGE. So, it is cultural, only if they are old-fashion.

 

The only thing that comes to mind is why she's so attached to the 6 months. Does it have to be so exact? How about introducing you to just some friends first?

[youngskywalker]

You can sit back and give her 3 more months and see what happens...

 

I think that's the best advice you're going to get. I know it's hard but I wish I would have chilled out in a few relationships in the past to see what happened instead of getting all frustrated. If you get ticked off then the inevitable happens... you break up.

 

You don't have to go FORWARD with this relationship but do you think you could just put things on hold for awhile? If a girl started crying and weeping like you said she did, then I would respect that and look further into what was going until I made a final decision.

 

If she's not going through a divorce or something (deal breaker at this point because she lied) then I would hang around a little while longer. Listen to what yah said.

[xpaperxcutx]

I'm Chinese and I have to agree with Yah that family is the most important thing in our culture. Everything revolves around family, and like your gf, I also have an uncle ( the eldest son) who takes care of his mother ( my grandmother) and has her reside in his household.

 

From a culture stance, if your gf is really traditional, there is a kind of stigma of dating outside her race. The only people who are actually open to interracial dating are either those who are more open minded, or those born outside of China. Even at that, there's still the family factor- parents and children.

 

What are the chances her parents and her children will be receptive to you?

[naiveornot]

All good points of view. Thanks guys, for taking the time! That is exactly what I was looking for. : )

[TaraMaiden]

.....

That is not good advice. It is potentially dangerous for both himself and her.

 

Would you give this same advice to a man who was dating a woman with an extremely strict muslim background?

No, don't be ridiculous.

Religion is different to culture.

And a western man would in all likelihood not be dating 'a woman with an extremely strict Muslim background' because her strict Muslim family would prevent it, so I'm afraid your argument doesn't wash.

 

This has nothing to do with religion.

It has everything to do with her lying to him, trying to cover up, his finding out that she is a liar, and him cutting her slack event though it's patently obvious she is still deceiving him.

I think she's hiding behind culture, and I think he needs to call her up on it.

What a way to start a relationship.

Built on lies, concealment deceit and deflection.

Yaywayto go.

 

 

Look... most American families don't give a crap who their daughter dates. People from other countries actually care, and can be xenophobic about it.

 

Yet another good foundation for a relationship's resounding success.

[NoLongerSad]

OP:

 

throw this one back and keep fishing.

[Madgick1]

The culture thing I could understand.

 

What I don't understand is why she said she lived alone...when she didn't.

 

Why she said she had no children...when she did.

 

Why would she contact a white man on an inet dating site, if she were ashamed of letting her family know she was dating a white man?

 

She lied. Has she any explanation for the lying.

 

Did you ask her, "Why did you say you had no children when you have children? Why did you say you were living alone if you had 3 other family members living with you? Why lie?" And if so, what was her reason for lying?

[naiveornot]

xpaperxcutx asks a very revealing question: "What are the chances her parents and her children will be receptive to you?"

 

This is exactly the type of mentality I seem to be encountering in this new relationship that utterly utterly befuddles me - as a "human being", not as Chinese or American or anything else. God (whatever one perceives Him/Her to be) gave us each one life. Our US constitution has a beautiful quote that describes what it should consist of: "[Life], Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." My liberty and pursuit of happiness are very dear to me. They are also pretty important to most individuals born into the progressive western world, as a matter of fact. This merely means we don't want to let others - INCLUDING our parents/children once we/they are grown up - tell us how to live our lives. This is a simple doctrine, very enjoyable and very easy to follow. INDEPENDENCE is also a word used in our constitution - very dear to great many of us Americans. So for me to even attempt to wonder how receptive her parents and her child and her siblings might be to me if we end up together, I say, in the words of a famous US Independence orator: Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

 

I am not dating her parents, children or siblings. Why some cultures deliberately continue to think this way today is beyond me. But more power to them, just the same and for contributing to keeping the world the primitive place that it is.

 

Yes, there is definitely a gap in our cultural traits. : (

 

Why is she dating a white guy? She 'always wanted to' date a single, attractive white American guy over 6' tall who doesn't drink, gamble or smoke. I happened to fit that description. As for me, just single, looking at what's out there.

Edited December 16, 2010 by naiveornot

[restart]

What is with the 3mths to wait further?

Ask her point blank! I mean, is she perhaps only separated (maybe there was a terminology interpretation mixup)?...and so the real divorce won't happen for another 3mths? Get an explanation. But sounds like you should let her know that you're being asked to really take on alot of further baggage you definitely hadn't expected.

Keep your senses, obviously if you haven't got other cards on the table and still like seeing her, but I would raise flags everytime something else again happens..and hold her to that 3mths...or is that going to change again!

[O'Malley]

 

Yes, there is definitely a gap in our cultural traits. : (

 

You can't confirm this until you have the opportunity to meet her family and can make a better assessment. An opportunity that she is choosing to postpone. Even if she is from a more conservative background, there was no reason to lie about her family situation or her son.

 

As Yah mentioned, why is she not introducing you to her friends?

[impz]

xpaperxcutx asks a very revealing question: "What are the chances her parents and her children will be receptive to you?"

 

This is exactly the type of mentality I seem to be encountering in this new relationship that utterly utterly befuddles me - as a "human being", not as Chinese or American or anything else. God (whatever one perceives Him/Her to be) gave us each one life. Our US constitution has a beautiful quote that describes what it should consist of: "[Life], Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." My liberty and pursuit of happiness are very dear to me. They are also pretty important to most individuals born into the progressive western world, as a matter of fact. This merely means we don't want to let others - INCLUDING our parents/children once we/they are grown up - tell us how to live our lives. This is a simple doctrine, very enjoyable and very easy to follow. INDEPENDENCE is also a word used in our constitution - very dear to great many of us Americans. So for me to even attempt to wonder how receptive her parents and her child and her siblings might be to me if we end up together, I say, in the words of a famous US Independence orator: Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

 

I am not dating her parents, children or siblings. Why some cultures deliberately continue to think this way today is beyond me. But more power to them, just the same and for contributing to keeping the world the primitive place that it is.

 

Yes, there is definitely a gap in our cultural traits. : (

 

Why is she dating a white guy? She 'always wanted to' date a single, attractive white American guy over 6' tall who doesn't drink, gamble or smoke. I happened to fit that description. As for me, just single, looking at what's out there.

 

Being chinese myself, my family is really considered to be the cornerstone of my life. In addition, for Asian culture, family recognition and cohesiveness is pretty important especially if you are in a family that is traditionally Chinese. I once dated an American lady who cannot understand this notion and constantly sprouted how "dependent" I am with my family, and why I am so close to my family. To be honest, I also do not understand her mentality. I still struggle to.

 

My answer to you is this. Older Chinese folks tend to be very conservative when it comes to inter-racial marriages, and you need to be more patient with her. I am quite sure she is trying to bridge that gap slowly, testing the waters herself. However, if you think that it is absolutely bull****/primitive (which I take a little offense because I can never understand why foreigners don't understand filial piety), you might want to think a bit more about this relationship.

 

After a re-read, I now see some warning signs. She ought to introduce you to her friends at least. Her family, I can understand fully... Friends?

 

[

Go to her house, and ask to be let in.

Talk to her parents, meet her son...

You have a right for them to know that you are in her life.

Imagine the lie she might be living at home....

 

Just FYI, if that is done to her (and she's telling the truth), the relationship is 100% over if you are dealing with a traditional Chinese family. As much as it sounds weird, you don't go into a relationship with a traditional Chinese with headstrong American values. It's a recipe for disaster.

Edited December 16, 2010 by impz