Law School is Driving me Nuts!!!!!!!! Any ideas

[Star Gazer]

The comment about me not being an "advocate" anyone would be willing to higher because I "balk in the face of adversity" also leads me to believe that you're pretty clueless as to the nature of most lawyers' day-to-day work. Yeah, there's tons of "adversity" in being a glorified paper custodian.

 

To be fair, I thought they had a point, albeit unnecessarily harsh.

 

Are you familiar with most lawyers' day-to-day work? It's far from being a glorified paper custodian. You think and act as an advocate for your clients every single minute of the work day.

[TheBigQuestion]

To be fair, I thought they had a point, albeit unnecessarily harsh.

 

Are you familiar with most lawyers' day-to-day work? It's far from being a glorified paper custodian. You think and act as an advocate for your clients every single minute of the work day.

 

I understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that his/her analogy was both unnecessary and wrong, not to mention the pointless advice I was given in that post.

[Star Gazer]

I understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that his/her analogy was both unnecessary and wrong...

 

If you understand that lawyers are more than glorified paper custodians and in fact act as advocates day-in-and-day out, why did you say otherwise?

 

I don't think the comment about coping issues was unnecessary or wrong. They really did have a valid point, they just said it in a nasty way.

 

If you find law school tough the point where you're nearly having a breakdown, what are you going to when you lose a case? Or an older attorney tells you that you don't know what you're doing? Because it will happen.

 

As I said before, the best attorneys are those who are determined. They never give up. It's not even an option for them. You're about ready to throw in the towel... THAT's the mindset you need to flip a switch on.

[TheBigQuestion]

If you understand that lawyers are more than glorified paper custodians and in fact act as advocates day-in-and-day out, why did you say otherwise?

 

I don't think the comment about coping issues was unnecessary or wrong. They really did have a valid point, they just said it in a nasty way.

 

If you find law school tough the point where you're nearly having a breakdown, what are you going to when you lose a case? Or an older attorney tells you that you don't know what you're doing? Because it will happen.

 

As I said before, the best attorneys are those who are determined. They never give up. It's not even an option for them. You're about ready to throw in the towel... THAT's the mindset you need to flip a switch on.

 

I honestly don't find law school all that difficult. I've taken classes in subjects that were significantly more challenging as an undergrad. I'm mostly angry at myself for not being able to think or write fast enough to adequately finish my exams. I finished one, couldn't quite finish the other, and the third was multiple choice so not really an issue (although that class already had multiple exams and I haven't exactly been lighting those up either). I'm angry and upset because I may not have done nearly enough to prepare. I'm angry because my insomnia may have played a role in me not doing as well as I should have. I'm angry because I almost ran out of time on my first exam, swore it wouldn't happen again, and it did. No one else in the room ran out of time. I'm upset because I feel like I'm inferior to everyone else, and my ego cannot handle that. Basically, nothing seems like it would satisfy my anxiety at this point except going back in time and taking all those exams over again.

 

I'm ready to throw in the towel because bad grades cannot be erased, unless I actually fail. Then I can retake them. But that of course is a colossal waste of money. If I end up doing anywhere near as bad as I think I did, then I'll have to put in a herculian effort next semester just to be close to the class median. What I'm contemplating right now is whether or not that effort is worth it from a financial perspective. It sucks because right now I feel like I'm condemning myself to misery no matter what choice I make, because what put me in this situation has already happened.

[Star Gazer]

I honestly don't find law school all that difficult.

 

You're right, it's not.

 

But the pressure from finals are very similar to the pressures you'll feel as a licensed attorney when you have to quickly respond to an ex parte for something or other under an unreasonable deadline involving numerous complex legal issues, as well as many other legal tasks.

[TheBigQuestion]

I see what you're saying. I'm not dropping out. I have 7 months left on this lease so I might as well stick around. Time to buckle down and practice taking exams as early as is feasible.

[Star Gazer]

ITime to buckle down and practice taking exams as early as is feasible.

 

That's the right attitude!!

[TheBigQuestion]

I also realized I can't really pay my rent without financial aid, and I need to stay in school to be on financial aid. I'm stuck here!

[Spinning Head]

You need to take deep breaths and calm down! You probably did better on the exams than you realize. And, as others suggested, talking to classmates about an exam after its taken is a bad idea. You'll see that the first year of law school is a weeding process.

 

The purpose of law school is to teach you how to think. And, how to handle stress. You will encounter more stressful situations in the future, i.e. taking the bar exam, representing clients, going to trial. Just think, during a trial, you have one chance to prove your case and that's it. If you lose or fail, you can appeal a decision but that costs your clients time and money (which is usually in short supply).

 

Do the best you can and move forward.

[TheBigQuestion]

What's the name of your law school, or at least list its ranking.

 

You keep saying about dropping out, but, do you have a plan B if you drop out? Do you have a job to go to after dropping out? What's our undergrad major?

 

One thing for sure is that things might go a little easier for your 2L and 3L, but there are many struggles ahead, including fighting for summer jobs, bar exam, and possibility of having three years of law school debt and no job, not to mention that job satisfaction among lawyers is one of the lowest for any professions.

 

Well I was considering dropping out, but as I said above, it's basically a financial impossibility for me at this point. Also, I won't know how I did in any course until the new year. I'm not really sure how exactly I did on any of my exams. I have a feeling that I did very poorly in Civil Procedure, mostly because I wasn't able to answer one (if very small) part, and was rushing to finish about half the exam. This led to me overlooking some possible counterarguments and also making some of my analysis muddled, particularly the question on the Erie doctrine. I'm not sure what grade this will give me but I can't imagine it being anything above the class median. However, I do think that I displayed enough knowledge for it to not be a D or F grade, which at my school are virtually unheard of. We've taken numerous exams in Contracts and I was rocking an unspectacular B- average (Although that was based on 50% of the grade; I have no idea what to what the other two exams will average).

 

The school that I go to is considered mid-tier 2, even though US News Ranking doesn't have a "Tier 2." I'm not comfortable saying the name because I've posted other personal-ish stuff on this board before and appreciate its anonymity. It's a pretty competitive school but does not have a mandatory 1L curve and does not rank students below the top 25%. Still, most of the cumulative grades end up curving to slightly above a 3.0 (where a 3.0 is a B) anyway. It has a strong command and influence on the legal market over the region. I currently have a partial scholarship.

 

This thread has mostly been me venting about my own perceived shortcomings as a test-taker more than anything else, combined with paranoia about how rough it is to make it as a lawyer even if you are one of the top people in your class. I may have also had one too many distractions throughout the semester, but no one I know actually UNDERSTOOD much of anything that was being taught until the last 3 weeks before exams anyway.

[TheBigQuestion]

Mid-tier two is not good. But, it's no much worse than the lower tier 1.

 

You still haven't answer my question yet; what were your undergrad majors? You might need those to get a job, any job, after law school. Please dont' say history or political science or social studies?

 

You identified one of them. The other was philosophy. Although I've read that the latter tends to be a very high earning salary in multiple publications. These are the types of majors most law students had anyway. There's a few who major in sciences and want to do patent law, but one does not even need a law degree to sit for the patent bar exam.

 

What exactly is your point though? I've made it abundantly clear in this thread that it's not easy finding employment as a lawyer and that I'm aware of it. And in case you were wondering, no, Big Law was never my intended destination, regardless of my qualifications.

[TheBigQuestion]

You think it's frustrating to see my couple of questions, you should go visit JDunderground and see the reality, even for the ones who have jobs.

 

The point of question was to find out if you can have a back up plan, in case you have an accounting, biology, etc. degree. But, I guess that's not the case.

 

I didn't find your questions frustrating. I was under the impression that you were about to insult me because of my undergraduate background but fortunately that was not the case. There are plenty of people out there who scoff at the idea of college as being anything other than job training.

 

My educational background does not lend me to any particularly marketable skill. Although that's not to say that I actually didn't have any job offers or prospects upon graduation. Most of them involved being a claims adjuster or selling insurance or something along those lines, and no offense to anyone who does that, but it really wasn't for me. I did some office temping in between, but that's about it.

 

If anything, this should spark an interesting debate about what's actually going on in the law profession. Star Gazer claimed that even the people she knew in law school who nearly failed out are for the most part having fulfilling careers. You make it sound like anyone who didn't go to a top-15 is on a crash course to lifelong misery.

Edited December 21, 2010 by TheBigQuestion

[TheBigQuestion]

You need to ask her 1) what law school she attended and 2) what year did she graduated from law school?

 

If her answer for number 2 is anything prior to 2007, her answer is not going to be relevant to you.

 

What you make it sound like is that this is primarily related to the economy. Is that it, or has something else happened to the law profession from an institutional perspective since then?

[TheBigQuestion]

Yes, it started with the economy; however, that's not all. Many lawyers were laid off. When you graduate, you will be competing with experienced lawyers and the inventory of graduates. When you graduate in 2013, you will be competing with 2012, 2011, and maybe even 2010 graduates who have already passed the bar.

 

The legal market not only slowed down, it might even have been reduced, but the number of graduates keep coming, year after year.

 

That's more or less what I've heard. The big question (har-har) is, just for the sake of conversation, what would you do if you were me? I do actually like and have an active interest in the law, but I wouldn't necessarily be heartbroken if I ended up doing something else. Keep in mind that more time has passed since I graduated college, and I highly doubt I'd be able to get my professors who wrote me recommendations to write more recommendations for a law school dropout, and that I have no valuable work experience.

[TheBigQuestion]

Thanks for the pointers. If my grades are as crappy as I think they'll be, it obviously can be fixed down the line, but I do plan on distinguishing myself as much as possible in other ways as well. I always received glowing evaluations from my legal writing professor, so I might be able to grade onto some of the journals here (although not the actual law review).

[Star Gazer]

You need to ask her 1) what law school she attended and 2) what year did she graduated from law school?

 

If her answer for number 2 is anything prior to 2007, her answer is not going to be relevant to you.

 

I graduated in 2003, and you're right that new grads are not my competition by a long shot. I'd say anything younger than a 2005 grad can't compete with me.

 

As for the school, I started at one law school and transferred to another after 1L to be closer to family. Many thought I was stupid because I was leaving a higher ranked school. Ironically, the school I left was a Tier 1 when I applied and got in and started, but fell drastically to the top of Tier 3 the year after I left (largely due to faculty changes). It's now back at the bottom of Tier 1, I *think.* The school I graduated from is a solid Tier 2 school, but one of, if not the best, in my geographical area, giving me an edge where I physically practice. If I moved across the country, the response might be "Where?" as to the second school, but not the first.

 

That all having been said, this far out of law school (7 years), where I went to school honestly doesn't matter anymore.

[Star Gazer]

I am not aware of any school that dropped from Tier 1 to Tier 3 and went back to Tier 1. What school is it? George Mason?

 

I'd really rather not say.

 

I know this isn't US News, but both schools are now in the Tier 1 according to this: http://www.lawschool100.com/

 

But the drop of the first school I'm referring to was based on US News rankings.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Star Gazer

[lovesparis]

so... are you going to tell us how you did?

[TheBigQuestion]

Sure will. I'm still waiting on two grades. The two I've gotten back were a B and a B-.

[TheBigQuestion]

Still waiting on a grade. So far I've got

 

Torts = B-

Civil Procedure = B

LAWR 1 = B

Contracts =?

 

...Maybe I need pills.

[Star Gazer]

Still waiting on a grade. So far I've got

 

Torts = B-

Civil Procedure = B

LAWR 1 = B

Contracts =?

 

...Maybe I need pills.

 

Law school grades mean nothing without context of how other students did, but at first glance those aren't terrible. What's your current rank?

[TheBigQuestion]

Law school grades mean nothing without context of how other students did, but at first glance those aren't terrible. What's your current rank?

 

The school I go to doesn't rank, but pretty much all the classes are normed between 3.0 and 3.1 where a 3.0=B. So I'm probably ending up slightly below the median, which is not beyond repair and certainly would not justify dropping out. I had a bit of an overreaction when I wrote the original OP and many of the subsequent ones, but I'm pretty sure I can do far better this semester.

[Star Gazer]

The school I go to doesn't rank, but pretty much all the classes are normed between 3.0 and 3.1 where a 3.0=B. So I'm probably ending up slightly below the median, which is not beyond repair and certainly would not justify dropping out. I had a bit of an overreaction when I wrote the original OP and many of the subsequent ones, but I'm pretty sure I can do far better this semester.

 

Nothing is beyond repair. Good job! Now, focus on this next semester!

[TheBigQuestion]

Nothing is beyond repair. Good job! Now, focus on this next semester!

 

Yep. I've also started seeing a counselor here to help me with my insomnia and anxiety and to work on study habits. Apparently they see a disproportionately high number of law students. She seemed quite relieved to know that I wasn't an alcoholic and wasn't snorting coke on a regular basis.