Don't even know how to begin.

[redcurls]

Please, please, please: no BS or reformed WS tell me how wrong I am in what I am doing - I KNOW THIS ALREADY. I just need to pour my heart out, as I'm afraid that I won't survive this. No need to berate me - I am taking full responsibility for my own actions, and will suffer the consequences

 

Met MM/xMM at our mutual hobby over a year ago. Became great friends but I fell for him head over heals. I could feel how drawn he was to me as well, and I finally expressed my feelings to him. He admitted that he felt the same but he would have never acted on the attraction. I basically seduced him, but he didn’t put too much of a fight ;-)

 

Our R had many ups and downs, mostly related to his immense sense of guilt and his withdrawals and disappearing acts. He repeatedly said that he “can’t handle” our R, that what we are doing is wrong, that we should stop, etc. I then “give him space” but after few days one of us always comes back and the cycle begin again. I must confess that I was always the one refusing to let him end our R. I suspect that if I was willing to end it, we would have been over few months ago, but I was always just so very weak when it came to him. We have ended and started numerous times, but we both can’t seem to stay away from each other for very long. He is a good man at heart, I fully believe that, but he has some troubling personality traits, related (I believe) to his home life.

 

We both agree that we need to end this. We both admit that it’s a VERY unhealthy situation, but while I am COMPLETELY broken hearted, he seems able to just move on. In fact, he said that he would like to “forget our R ever happened” (this was a knife through my heart) and that we should have no more contact. I am absolutely devastated. This is the most painful thing I ever had to endure, but I KNOW I have to let him go, for my own sanity. This pain has taken over my life. I can’t function. He has such an immense hold over me, its mindboggling. I have started counseling, and am reading a great book about Trauma Bonding, which I fully believe is what happened to me in this R. I am determined to let him go. I MUST.

 

This is my question: We have agreed that we will no longer do our hobby together so we don’t see each other anymore, but I have in my possession a piece of equipment (related to our hobby) of his and I asked him if he wants it back. He refused to take it and told me to keep it and he will ask me to use it when he needs it, and RETURN IT BACK TO ME when he is done (he owns this equipment – it isn’t mine.) If he is so adamant about wanting to end it, that we should have NO CONTACT, that we should FORGET everything, why not take it from me so there will be no reason to communicate in the future? Why?

 

I am certain that he wants me out of his life. I am certain that he does NOT want to be in a R with me. I am certain that he is FULLY committed to his wife and kids. So why would he want to leave the door open like this? Please help me understand.

Edited December 13, 2010 by redcurls

[Hazyhead]

First of all, well done for trying to let go - I agree: I think it's the right thing for you. It's incredibly painful, I know; this time last year I was going through it all myself. Posting at LS helped me immensely (wouldn't be at this stage if it wasn't for the place) and you should find that some lovely words of wisdom come your way (y'know, after this ).

 

From reading your post I get the impression that you are spinning at the end of his puppet strings - he is manipulating you, redcurls, because he knows he can due to always having been able to do so in the past. My advice is to tell him to either collect his equipment or you will throw it out. Preferably, DO NOT hand it back to him in person. Whatever it is, it is allowing him to keep you in the background, and that will completely hold you back from moving on. Anyway, forget the 'why's here - they don't matter, the longer you continue to second guess him, the longer you will wait around to find out the answer. He hurts you. Let him go.

 

Take your control back!

 

Hugs,

Hazy

[MorningCoffee]

I view this as his wanting to leave the door open just a tiny crack, in case it becomes desirable to renew the connection. I did this for months after my affair ended, wanting to hang on to slivers of hope that ex-AP/MW would become available. She did it too, even after I had closed the door, by trying to keep in contact with me until just last month.

 

I don't know what your shared hobby is, but I agree that you ought to tell him that he should collect his equipment, you make arrangements to NOT see him but give it to some other person to hold, and if he has not done so by a certain date, then donate it to some worthy charity . . .

[redcurls]

More importantly, why don't you just return the equipment so he does not leave that door open for contact in the future?

 

I KNOW its what I SHOULD do, but my stupid heart keeps whispering: "maybe he can't let go of you, just like you can't let go of him"

[Hazyhead]

I view this as his wanting to leave the door open just a tiny crack, in case it becomes desirable to renew the connection. I did this for months after my affair ended, wanting to hang on to slivers of hope that ex-AP/MW would become available. She did it too, even after I had closed the door, by trying to keep in contact with me until just last month.

 

I don't know what your shared hobby is, but I agree that you ought to tell him that he should collect his equipment, you make arrangements to NOT see him but give it to some other person to hold, and if he has not done so by a certain date, then donate it to some worthy charity . . .

 

I like that idea. I had a big, cathartic moment hauling everything he had given me into the sea (sorry, Mother Earth) and although that was great for releasing anger, I get the feeling we might be talking major heavy stuff here (?) so that may not be possible.

 

Plus the fact that it might hint to the more unhinged side of my personality

[Hazyhead]

I KNOW its what I SHOULD do, but my stupid heart keeps whispering: "maybe he can't let go of you, just like you can't let go of him"

 

Do you WANT him to hang on to you like he is doing? Do you want more of that flip-flopping and constant anxiety?

[redcurls]

I like that idea. I had a big, cathartic moment hauling everything he had given me into the sea (sorry, Mother Earth) and although that was great for releasing anger, I get the feeling we might be talking major heavy stuff here (?) so that may not be possible.

 

Plus the fact that it might hint to the more unhinged side of my personality

 

Unhinged you said? Ha! You got nothin' on me...

 

I know I need to take control, I know I should. I just can't seem to be able to shut the door in this manner. But this is just making me crazy. is it possible that deep down inside he doesn't really want it to be over? What would he get from stringing me along if he is sooooo sure we are done?

[Hazyhead]

Unhinged you said? Ha! You got nothin' on me...

 

I know I need to take control, I know I should. I just can't seem to be able to shut the door in this manner. But this is just making me crazy. is it possible that deep down inside he doesn't really want it to be over? What would he get from stringing me along if he is sooooo sure we are done?

 

There's a chance that he might not want it to be over. It might suit him, after he's chilled a bit, to pick you back up and benefit from the pleasurte of having two women meeting his needs again. Do YOU want that, though? Are you happy with your position here?

[BB07]

I KNOW its what I SHOULD do, but my stupid heart keeps whispering: "maybe he can't let go of you, just like you can't let go of him"

 

You've received some excellent advice recurls and there isn't anything I can add to that other than saying that YES you can let him go and he can let you go. It's really not a matter of can or can't, it's doing it because you have to for yourself. Also just because he maybe doesn't want to let go of you doesn't change anything if it's toxic to your soul. It's human nature to resist change and to hang on to what we are familiar with........even when it's not what we need or want, we cling because it's familiar.

 

Hugs..........redcurls.

[redcurls]

There's a chance that he might not want it to be over. It might suit him, after he's chilled a bit, to pick you back up and benefit from the pleasurte of having two women meeting his needs again. Do YOU want that, though? Are you happy with your position here?

 

 

No I'm not happy. But his rejection of me has been so painful, I can't see straight.

 

He told me over and over that its not "me" he doesn't want. That he doesn't want to have an affrair. That he is "giving me up" for the sake of his family - for doing the "right thing." Still - I feel so unattractive, so insignificant, so unappreciated. Maybe I'm just trying to find a ray of light - to prove that it did mean something to him.

[Hazyhead]

No I'm not happy. But his rejection of me has been so painful, I can't see straight.

 

He told me over and over that its not "me" he doesn't want. That he doesn't want to have an affrair. That he is "giving me up" for the sake of his family - for doing the "right thing." Still - I feel so unattractive, so insignificant, so unappreciated. Maybe I'm just trying to find a ray of light - to prove that it did mean something to him.

 

I get it, redcurls, and I'm sorry. Truth is, he doesn't deserve you. You will have meant something to him, but he is choosing his family and you should let him. You talk of the pain it is causing you now, if you did keep the door open and he did it to you again, it would repeat all the pain - it's a constant roller-coaster and you have to choose to get off if you're not enjoying the ride.

 

You'll move on, I promise. Every day that you a free from him you will (eventually) start to feel lighter and lighter and it's a great stage to be at, BUT you have to want that for yourself.

 

Find your strength.

[redcurls]

Something must be SERIOUSLY and SEVERLY wrong with me.

 

Can I be totally honest? The sex isn't that great. The attraction is out of this world - the consummation? Not so much. We don't talk - mostly argue. He is a pathological liar - not just with me, in all his interactions, business and personal. He is a BAD communicator. He isn't giving me anything but pain.

 

Why can't I let go? I am a strong, successful, intelligent, attractive woman. I used to have the world at my feet. Now - I feel like such a failure as a woman and as a human being.

[Owl]

I agree with the advice to donate it to a charity...do something to get rid of it.

 

Don't keep it, as it'll be a reminder of him when you are weak...which is NOT what you need in your life.

 

If he's said he doesn't want it back...then that's the end of the 'required' contact.

 

You need to let it go, and walk away.

 

He's made his choice, you've recognized that you've been the one fighting to keep the relationship alive, and that the affair would likely have ended a while ago if you'd not done so.

 

I have no doubts that you're hurting.

 

Just please realize that fighting to keep alive a relationship against the other person's expressed request is just going to keep that hurt going.

 

If this weren't an affair...if this were a "normal" relationship...what advice would you expect? What advice would you give yourself from the outside, looking in?

 

End the relationship. Go NC with him. Remove your methods of contacting him (remove him from your phone/email/im/etc...), and block him from doing the same to you.

 

Grieve the loss and end of that relationship.

 

And let yourself heal.

 

Free yourself to live your life as you can, and him to live his.

[Hazyhead]

Something must be SERIOUSLY and SEVERLY wrong with me.

 

Can I be totally honest? The sex isn't that great. The attraction is out of this world - the consummation? Not so much. We don't talk - mostly argue. He is a pathological liar - not just with me, in all his interactions, business and personal. He is a BAD communicator. He isn't giving me anything but pain.

 

Why can't I let go? I am a strong, successful, intelligent, attractive woman. I used to have the world at my feet. Now - I feel like such a failure as a woman and as a human being.

 

You can let go, red, you've just not fully tried yet. Close the door. It will hurt at first and probably make you cry but it will serve to give you strength in the future. Don't leave it up to him. I know what that's like and it doesn't get you anything but more pain.

 

You CAN do this. Bring your woman back!

[siuys]

Maybe you can't let go coz you're in an addictive mode. You are sort of getting withdrawal symptoms. However painful, close that door, return that darn thing to him by post, or throw it out, or donate it. Don't use it to justify any action, or to invent some reason (maybe he doesn't want to end it after all). Been there, done that. You know exactly why. He may want to keep that door just slightly open, but you know you're inviting pain. You cannot move on until you shut that door and lock it.

 

You are afraid of hurt and rejection but that has already happened. If you close that door, the hurt will lessen over time. If not, it will continue and continue.

 

Plant the seed in your mind that it is over and good riddance. All the best.

[Quiet Storm]

Reasons to stay in touch with you:

 

1) Booty calls. He wants a friend with benefits. He wants your company, but only when it is convenient for him. He wants to keep you at a distance emotionally, so that he doesn't disrupt his real life.

 

2) To be able to manage you. He wants to be "friends" so that he can make sure you don't do anything crazy like stalk his house or drunk-dial his wife.

 

Look, this guy didn't want to have an affair in the first place. You said it yourself, you seduced him. Plenty of people have attractions toward each other, married or not, and don't act on them.

 

He wasn't planning on acting on it, but chose not to turn it down when it was put in front of him on a silver platter.

 

Now he regrets it, realizes that your emotions are now involved...and that can be pretty scary for a guy who wants to keep his marriage.

 

Let him go. Look within and figure out why you wanted someone so unavailable. Not saying this is true for you, but many women who seduce unavailable men have "daddy issues". They were ignored or neglected by their fathers and and play out these dynamics with unavailable men as a way to "get their power back".

[redcurls]

Reasons to stay in touch with you:

 

1) Booty calls. He wants a friend with benefits. He wants your company, but only when it is convenient for him. He wants to keep you at a distance emotionally, so that he doesn't disrupt his real life.

 

2) To be able to manage you. He wants to be "friends" so that he can make sure you don't do anything crazy like stalk his house or drunk-dial his wife.

 

Look, this guy didn't want to have an affair in the first place. You said it yourself, you seduced him. Plenty of people have attractions toward each other, married or not, and don't act on them.

 

He wasn't planning on acting on it, but chose not to turn it down when it was put in front of him on a silver platter.

 

Now he regrets it, realizes that your emotions are now involved...and that can be pretty scary for a guy who wants to keep his marriage.

 

Let him go. Look within and figure out why you wanted someone so unavailable. Not saying this is true for you, but many women who seduce unavailable men have "daddy issues". They were ignored or neglected by their fathers and and play out these dynamics with unavailable men as a way to "get their power back".

 

If he regrets it so much, why would he want a booty call? And as far as calling his wife - I don't drink and I will never do anything to hurt his wife and kids. Why would I do that? My R is with HIM not THEM. And he knows this very well.

 

And I do have "daddy" and major fear of abandonment issues. I'm not hiding from them, I'm in counseling and working on it.

 

Just for the record: I never asked him to leave his family, I never would have. I have always been very respectful of his commitments at home, been very diligent in maintaining discretion, NEVER called him at home or at a time when I knew it could be unsafe, or threatened his homelife in anyway.

 

My point is: if this was such a mistake for him, if he never wanted any of this, why would he insist on keeping the door open?

[BB07]

If he regrets it so much, why would he want a booty call? And as far as calling his wife - I don't drink and I will never do anything to hurt his wife and kids. Why would I do that? My R is with HIM not THEM. And he knows this very well.

 

And I do have "daddy" and major fear of abandonment issues. I'm not hiding from them, I'm in counseling and working on it.

 

Just for the record: I never asked him to leave his family, I never would have. I have always been very respectful of his commitments at home, been very diligent in maintaining discretion, NEVER called him at home or at a time when I knew it could be unsafe, or threatened his homelife in anyway.

 

My point is: if this was such a mistake for him, if he never wanted any of this, why would he insist on keeping the door open?

 

Redcurls.......read what YOU wrote in the above that is bolded. You've been the perfect OW, now what man who wants an OW wouldn't want that? You've gladly accepted your place and you can bet he has enjoyed that, not making any waves, but he is scared that you might do that now.

 

I am going to guess he is scared, scared that you will rock the boat now and he feels pressure from you but the thing he is not so scared yet that he wants to completely shut the door. Him wanting you to keep that piece of equipment is just another way of him showing you your place and keep you in the role of good little OW.

I'm not saying this to be mean but think long and hard about what role he wants you to have and what role you have allowed yourself to play in the triangle.

Now...........break free from it, you can do it! Stop confusing him hanging on to you in some small way as proof that you are all he wants.

[ladydesigner]

If he regrets it so much, why would he want a booty call? And as far as calling his wife - I don't drink and I will never do anything to hurt his wife and kids. Why would I do that? My R is with HIM not THEM. And he knows this very well.

 

And I do have "daddy" and major fear of abandonment issues. I'm not hiding from them, I'm in counseling and working on it.

 

Just for the record: I never asked him to leave his family, I never would have. I have always been very respectful of his commitments at home, been very diligent in maintaining discretion, NEVER called him at home or at a time when I knew it could be unsafe, or threatened his homelife in anyway.

 

My point is: if this was such a mistake for him, if he never wanted any of this, why would he insist on keeping the door open?

 

First I want to say how much I truly identify with this thread, but this was me 2 years ago and I was the MOW. My XOM had a very long-term girlfriend. When the emotions heated up on both sides both myself and him, he pulled the plug. Rejected, oh yes. I still to this day deal with the rejection, BUT I no longer miss him, want him, or think of him fondly. Even the part where you said the sex wasn't great, neither was mine. It was so purely emotional, but it was the emotional that was missing from my M and my H had just cheated on me.

 

I just want to give you a big cyber hug cuz you need it hun like all of us have. I understand what you are going through, that searing pain of rejection. It will get easier though, especially with NC. But to the bolded I thought this same exact thought especially since my XOM wanted to remain friends. My XOM told me "did you actually think this was going to work out?" well why in this f**king world would you tell someone you loved them ten times a day, say you couldn't live without them, blah blah blah you know all that chatter. In the end after they have made their choice...IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. Try to stop giving him room in your brain and give it back to yourself. Who knows why they want to keep that door open, but you know what? You can shut it and not have to worry about it anymore. F**k him, forget him, and get back to that woman you used to know before him because she is still there.

 

(((redcurls)))

[IzzyB]

Red, this isnt about the MM. This is about YOU and trying to fill up the holes that were left from being abandoned as a kid. I read some of your posts on another thread and you were very insightful about some things still haunting you. I dont blame you for feeling the way you do. But the causes of these feelings of abandonment and needing MMs approval/love go way beyond affair issues. Until you heal that part of you inside that is hurting, you will either grieve for this man or recreate the same thing with the next man, or both. Be gentle with yourself and learn, one baby step at a time to take care of you. It is great you are in therapy. You may want to join a support group, or even a 12 step to continue the healing. You will be okay. You are incredibly strong. And hopefully, soon, you will understand that the hurt goes much deeper than this man. The hurt is already there and now, since you are starting to discover your truths, you can get on the way to healing this. Good luck and extra warm fuzzy hugs.

[redcurls]

Red, this isnt about the MM. This is about YOU and trying to fill up the holes that were left from being abandoned as a kid. I read some of your posts on another thread and you were very insightful about some things still haunting you. I dont blame you for feeling the way you do. But the causes of these feelings of abandonment and needing MMs approval/love go way beyond affair issues. Until you heal that part of you inside that is hurting, you will either grieve for this man or recreate the same thing with the next man, or both. Be gentle with yourself and learn, one baby step at a time to take care of you. It is great you are in therapy. You may want to join a support group, or even a 12 step to continue the healing. You will be okay. You are incredibly strong. And hopefully, soon, you will understand that the hurt goes much deeper than this man. The hurt is already there and now, since you are starting to discover your truths, you can get on the way to healing this. Good luck and extra warm fuzzy hugs.

 

You are absolutely right. The issues go much deeper than him or this R. I started reading the book that was suggested in the other thread and its just unbelievably helpful.

 

I guess I'm just having a really hard time reconciling, in my mind, his proclamations about how wrong its is to continue, about how it should have never happened, how he wants to put it behind him and forget we were ever involved, with this thing about wanting me to keep this equipment for him until he needs it and then return it to me again (and, no, its a tiny thing, the size of a car key, so this is not about him needing storage...)

 

something just isn't adding up. I feel like there is something I'm missing here.

 

And BTW, there is no pressure from me to maintain the R so he isn't trying to "keep me calm" or make sure I won't pull a bunny-boiler stunt... That's just not me. In fact, there is a lot I could lose if his W will ever find out and he is well aware of this fact. So this is not about keeping an eye on me so I won't spill the beans.

[BB07]

You are absolutely right. The issues go much deeper than him or this R. I started reading the book that was suggested in the other thread and its just unbelievably helpful.

 

I guess I'm just having a really hard time reconciling, in my mind, his proclamations about how wrong its is to continue, about how it should have never happened, how he wants to put it behind him and forget we were ever involved, with this thing about wanting me to keep this equipment for him until he needs it and then return it to me again (and, no, its a tiny thing, the size of a car key, so this is not about him needing storage...)

 

something just isn't adding up. I feel like there is something I'm missing here.

 

And BTW, there is no pressure from me to maintain the R so he isn't trying to "keep me calm" or make sure I won't pull a bunny-boiler stunt... That's just not me. In fact, there is a lot I could lose if his W will ever find out and he is well aware of this fact. So this is not about keeping an eye on me so I won't spill the beans.

 

OK.......maybe I was wrong in my prior post, but the why's don't really matter......to stop obsessing about the why will put YOU in a better frame of mind. As others have said, get it back to him regardless of he wants it or not.

Doing that will help you take control of YOU.

 

Sometimes we just have to accept, and yes I know it's hard, that we are not going to get the answers we want.

Hugs.......

[ItsNeverForever]

Plus the fact that it might hint to the more unhinged side of my personality

 

LOL! Hazy, we've ALL got unhinged sides, don'tcha know??? You're in good company!

[awkward]

So sorry ((Red)). I have no idea why MM like to keep the door open. If I had to guess it's because he might want to knock on that door at a later time. But IMO he will never give you more than he has already given you.

 

Again I'm sorry you are hurting.

[greengoddess]

Maybe he knows if he sees you now he will cave and want to be with you. Maybe he is not so much leeping the door open, but more waiting to get his property after some of the feelings have died down. Maybe he just can't handle seeing you.