They Are Everywhere

[Citizen Erased]

J won't even go on LS at work, let alone look at porn. But I'm sure he'd rather you think that than me explain how exactly he knows who the little mole is. The man enjoys screwing with people.

[sb129]

I don't even look on LS on work computers.

 

Email, ebay, FB, thats it.

[Ariadne]

Well,

 

The only explanation is that he told on someone before and got them in a mess.

 

And things come back bigger.

[Taramere]

That's how he described it. A tabloid site. That was the worst thing he could think of that he'd accessed.

 

When you call it "mischief-making" I think of playful little things someone does to stir people up. A little bad but sort generally harmless. In this case my friend is losing days of salary and possibly his job altogether. Not to mention he's feeling a bit down and embarrassed by the whole thing. That doesn't fit my definition of mischief. Malicious and evil are the terms that come to mind.

 

That's how I'd define mischief. A malicious desire to cause embarrassment and distress. I know people associate it with cheeky little elves playing pranks, but malicious mischief and criminal mischief are neither cute nor harmless.

 

If they dismiss your friend, then surely they would have to also be prepared to dismiss everyone in that company who has ever used the Internet for non-professional purposes at work. I know your labour laws are less protective of employees than our employment laws are over here....but surely it's unlawful in the US to dismiss one person for a trivial misdemeanour that is commonly committed by the entire workforce? Edit - I see he's a contractor, which maybe complicates things.

 

I just feel disgusted by it. If he had really been hitting porn sites, I wouldn't think so much about it. I'd probably be annoyed at him. I recommended him as an employee. But this is essentially slander, and she can get away with it because she has all the leverage in the world. The poor harassed girl who might sue if she doesn't get her meaningless accusation treated seriously.

 

 

When harassment cases have cited the use of porn at work, it has involved the perpetrator of the harassment sending/emailing or otherwise deliberately showing the porn to a female colleague who doesn't want to see it....and it will generally happen in the context of a difficult working relationship, adding weight to the notion that the person used porn to encourage another person's feelings of discomfort and alienation within the workplace. Porn often gets used as part of child abuse (ie forcing the child to watch porn), and scenes depicting violent sex could be shown to a woman in an effort to make her feel threatened and intimidated (as happened to me in one workplace....not at the hands of colleagues, but at the hands of boys we worked with in a residential setting).

 

That's going off track. I'm just saying it because I know people sometimes make faces about the notion that porn can be used as part of harassing or intimidating other people, which ignores the circumstances where it is in fact used in a very deliberate and calculating manner for that very purpose. I know all that isn't directly relevant to what you're talking about here, because what you seem to be saying is that

 

1. You're very sure your colleague didn't download porn at work

2. If he downloaded something that looked like soft porn, it was by accident - and I know some British tabloids, which he might have been looking at if he's a tad homesick, can have a soft porn tone to them.

3 Whatever the circumstances, he wasn't using doing anything aimed at/reasonably likely to intimidate or upset another colleague.

 

I'll be checking the company policies to find out whether I'm required to have respect for her. I'm pretty sure I'm not. The last thing I need is to be turned in to HR.

 

I would think that assuming they find no substance to the allegation he could raise a grievance against the person who levelled this complaint at him. Making false or trivial allegations of misconduct against another person at work due to some personal spat seems pretty like harassment to me. Even if he doesn't know who made the allegations, the employers do. I wouldn't think this is going to bode well for his accuseer in the long term.

 

Presumably when this is over, assuming that you're right and that there's nothing to see here, he'll be able to recover the pay he has lost. I'm pretty shocked that a person would be suspended without pay in a situation like this, where there is no evidence so far other than another colleague's word against them. I hope it gets sorted out soon. I can imagine it's creating a horrible, paranoid atmosphere in the workplace which doesn't help anybody.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Taramere

[johan]

Dude, we all read your post as plain as day. It is permanently etched in stone here.

 

...

 

In short: STOP looking at porn on your company's time and equipment if it is against their rules.

 

Here. I think this is the thread was meant for you: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t248010/

[johan]

Well, they decided to let him go. I'm pretty disappointed. But at this point, it's probably for the best. I'd be curious what was found on his machine. He might have had some more interesting photos on there than he described to me. But he expected he would be cleared, so there couldn't have been anything too crazy. It's hard to say at this point.

 

I still feel a lot of resentment toward the person who turned him in, even if he was guilty. I think it's cowardly to rat someone out like that. To just rip their livelihood away from them over some dumb pictures. With no warning. If it was me, I'd have no problem saying "any chance you can not do that while I'm here? You know it's against policy."

 

In the end, he took a risk. He lost the gamble. There's no way it could have been worth it.

[Art_Critic]

Sorry to hear that Johan...

 

For his first offense it seems a bit extreme to let him go for some tabloid type photos..

But.. maybe you work for a company that doesn't allow room for breaking company policy.

 

I have a family member that works for a company that tracks troop movements in Afghanistan and they have a super strict policy.. including No Personal Calls.. ever... on their cell phone and no checking personal email.

All communication also must go thru their company supplied Blackberry... no exceptions or they fire you..

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Maybe he accidentally typed in loveshackdotcom? That really sucks that he was let go, hopefully it will be for the best.

[johan]

Sorry to hear that Johan...

 

For his first offense it seems a bit extreme to let him go for some tabloid type photos..

But.. maybe you work for a company that doesn't allow room for breaking company policy.

 

I don't know. Maybe there was something worse that they found, and he just was too embarrassed to admit it to me. I honestly doubt it though. I just can't see him, or anyone else, trying to access porn from there. There is zero privacy. We don't even have cubicle walls.

 

He was a contractor though. There is probably more latitude with real employees. A warning is probably too much to ask when you're a contractor.

 

Maybe he accidentally typed in loveshackdotcom? That really sucks that he was let go, hopefully it will be for the best.

 

I hope so. I'm sure he'll bounce back if this doesn't end up being some kind of mark on his record. The self-righteous idiot that turned him in should be forced to work in an unheated closet with the door locked.

 

I just can't see screwing around with someone's life like that. You can't justify it. If someone is doing something that bothers me, I'll move myself before I rat them out. I'll tell them myself that what they are doing is a problem. I don't need to run to HR because I glimpsed a nipple.

 

Actually, I'd probably lean in for a closer look... But still.

 

I don't really even think the "alert us" button on LS is all that great. It strikes me as a bit chickensh*t to even do that. Deal with your issues yourself.

 

I'm probably ranting now. But I don't care. Report me if you don't like it.

Edited December 16, 2010 by johan

[Art_Critic]

I hope so. I'm sure he'll bounce back if this doesn't end up being some kind of mark on his record. The self-righteous idiot that turned him in should be forced to work in an unheated closet with the door locked.

 

Do you think he is a victim ?

Maybe it was other marks on his record that helped make the decision for the company..

If he was indeed looking at porn then the person who turned them in really wasn't being all that self righteous..She/He was just looking to not want to work around images like that.. he was being self righteous though if it indeed was true...

 

It sucks that he got fired for it.. it does seem extreme either way.. but for sure you don't know if he does indeed have other marks on his record.. either for this or other issues...

Many companies today use contractors just so they can get rid of them quickly without any mess and maybe that is what happened..

Maybe the person turning them in made him tainted.. even if he didn't do it he was too tainted to be there when the option of calling the contact company and just ordering a new replacement is just a call away.

 

We are all replaceable...

[johan]

I actually just have sympathy for him. From the perspective that the rat's actions were unnecessary and the company didn't show any leniency at all, I feel he's been victimized. It's not clear how much he brought on himself. I don't really know or want to know the details.

 

And you're right about contractors. They technically aren't human beings. Just units. Cogs. I've been there. When you're a contractor, you're the most expendable person on the team. Your nose better be clean. His wasn't. And like you said, even if he'd never looked at anything more offensive than Minnie Mouse, the accusation itself might be enough to taint him.

[pureinheart]

Despite all of this writing, not even YOU will deny that your friend was viewing porn on company computer and time.

 

Then you go on to suggest that you don't even know that "your friend" was accused of looking at porn, but that you do, somehow, know who the accuser is.

 

The bottom line is clearly that "your friend" WAS indeed looking at porn on company time and equipment, and your implication is that he did so against company rules.

 

IF as you say, that this thing is confidential on the accusee's side, then there is only ONE way that you even know who the accusee is.

 

Curious bit of writing...

 

I would say you are right on the money. I retired early from a very large comany and IT security gave several warnings concerning viewing porn to several repeat offenders...they continued and were walked out.

 

I have never heard of someone getting walked out the door for heresay...

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Maybe he accidentally typed in loveshackdotcom?

 

Yep, typing loveshackdotcom by accident probably happens now and again amid a history of 10,000+ posts at loveshack.org.

 

 

 

I have never heard of someone getting walked out the door for heresay...

 

 

Just like the rest of us have never heard of a unique company where the apparent perpetrator is allowed to remain unknown while the one who points out the violations has their identity disclosed to everyone (at the employee Christmas party, no doubt).

 

 

He'll probably have a lot more time for Loveshack.org now. (with his side interests at Loveshack.com being fulfilled too)

[johan]

First thing this morning my manager called me into a meeting with one other team mate to inform us of my friend's dismissal and also to ask our opinions how to back-fill the position. It's kind of amusing now, but at the time I was outraged and made it pretty clear I had no interest in discussing that. That meeting ended fast.

 

I think he realized that might have been a mistake and he called me in to a one-on-one where I let him know what I thought of the whole situation. Neither of us named names or revealed any details. But the bottom line is it was justified, and I guess my friend has himself to blame for all this. At least in part. I still think it's wrong to rat someone out. I can't imagine going to HR myself.

 

The rest of my day was great. Probably one of the best I've had in seven years at the company. Tomorrow looks to be about as good. Things are going great for me while my friend sits at home and regroups. I feel bad for him, even if he was a dummy.

[Taramere]

Yep, typing loveshackdotcom by accident probably happens now and again amid a history of 10,000+ posts at loveshack.org.

 

 

 

 

Just like the rest of us have never heard of a unique company where the apparent perpetrator is allowed to remain unknown while the one who points out the violations has their identity disclosed to everyone (at the employee Christmas party, no doubt).

 

 

He'll probably have a lot more time for Loveshack.org now. (with his side interests at Loveshack.com being fulfilled too)

 

It's fairly clear from his posts that Johan is a permanent employee, and the guy who lost his job was a contractor. That Johan recommended him for the position, and is generally upset about what happened. So he posted about his feelings on this site. You're now taking the opportunity to promote a notion of Johan being somebody who views porn at work and has now lost his job as a result of it. That's a totally baseless notion.

 

Contemplating this thread as a female who is not the porn industry's biggest fan, and wondering how I'd feel if a male colleague were using porn at work I'd say that if I had to choose between

 

1) Working with somebody who was in the habit of discreetly downloading and viewing legal but X-rated material at work when things got quiet, or

 

2) working with somebody who adhered rigidly to the company's IT rules, but was in the habit of malicious/groundless rumours and gossip about other people

 

I would far rather work with the former.

[jean-luc sisko]

Web usage at work IMO should be wholly free, provided it does not infringe on productivity and is not on any illicit/offensive websites.

 

I think in this case, the OP should advise his friend to obtain a record of his Web usage log for that day. His firm's ICT department must have one, since it's the norm to monitor Web usage in most organisations.

 

People are scummy and undermine each other all the time, but this only works if it can get away with it. There must be proof of any wrongdoing, providing the company doesn't want to get sued, and suffer from poor PR. Do you know if the company has presented evidence of this?

[Mary3]

Could it be that your co-worker could have had a Darker Side ?

 

Could they have something on him thats pretty ugly ?

 

Two things come to mind : ( - Both usually well hidden - ) kiddie stuff or maybe your coworker-friend was into a sex addiction and controlling porn use or real world sex urges, is quite difficult.

 

When you said they took his laptop and escorted him OUT ( plus they are going to do a scan of his computer ) Could it be possible he has some dark stuff going on ?

 

I hope this works out and he gets his job back , and that I am wrong.

[johan]

He could have a "dark side". It's hard to say. Whatever they found was worth firing him over. That doesn't really mean it was that bad. Just that it's in violation of policy. It still strikes me as ludicrous that he would bother to try something like that in the office. It's kind of like bringing a Penthouse to a coffee shop to read. Our office is so open, it would kind of require him to be a sociopath.

 

The whole thing just reinforces the idea that personal relationships and work relationships should never mix. As it is I now have to doubt his credibility and at the same time wonder how puritan and back-stabbing some people at the office must be. It affects both relationships.

 

On the other hand, my manager, while trying to work this out with me, was really complimentary and it was a good informal review. I had a far-above-average week myself. And I don't feel as much sympathy or worry for my friend, which is a bit of a relief.

[Mary3]

He could have a "dark side". It's hard to say. Whatever they found was worth firing him over. That doesn't really mean it was that bad. Just that it's in violation of policy. It still strikes me as ludicrous that he would bother to try something like that in the office. It's kind of like bringing a Penthouse to a coffee shop to read. Our office is so open, it would kind of require him to be a sociopath.

 

The whole thing just reinforces the idea that personal relationships and work relationships should never mix. As it is I now have to doubt his credibility and at the same time wonder how puritan and back-stabbing some people at the office must be. It affects both relationships.

 

On the other hand, my manager, while trying to work this out with me, was really complimentary and it was a good informal review. I had a far-above-average week myself. And I don't feel as much sympathy or worry for my friend, which is a bit of a relief.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 but I bet he wishes ( if he was actively looking at porn ) that he had done it at home , on his own computer.

 

Maybe a lesson is learned...