Hearing about ALL the affair details... is it useful to know ALL the gory detail?

[Big Cat]

Hi, first-time poster here who appreciates the diversity of experience and opinion on here. I won't go into a long story today but I wanted some feedback on how much detail is useful and when does it just become pointless?

 

I'm in my early 40's and have been with my wife for 7 years, having got married a year ago. We have an adorable one-year old son who turns me into a happy blubbering wreck even now. My wife had a 6-month affair a year or two before we got married and although he left the country and they never talked for ages, she has now spent the last few months instant messaging him with nostalgic, craving messages. I caught her out 3 weeks ago and my world was turned upside down. I haven't decided (in my state) what the next actions are and I may post details some other time but for today, I want to ask a simple question about gathering the truth and the facts of what happened.

 

When does the sordid detail become too much info that is not useful?

I am sickened and raging inside with the threachery and I have an impulse to want to know everything. I have transcripts of her online conversations which I have shown her btu I am never satisfied that I have all the truth (because D-Day was a mission of me pulling her tongue to make her talk). I am about to print off all these chats and insert questions into them and ask her to answer them. I mean a mixture of specific questions (did you do this or that) and general ones (what were you thinking when...). It feels a bit like doing a report and smacking her over the head with it... What's driving me is the injustice I feel obviously but also the bitterness that the only confession I got out of her was what I dragged out of her.

 

Is wanting to know ALL the sordid detail just anger that is not really useful?

Does it depend on the individual? Be great to hear your opinion on this.

 

thanks

[bentnotbroken]

Every detail was useful for me to make an informed decision. It adds to the mindset of the cheating spouse. I also answered in the other thread about this topic.

[imagine]

You are responsible for the protection of the marriage. You need details to do this. Part of this is the breakdown of trust which has broken your heart. Details will help.

 

Because it is usual for the betrayed party to trickle truth the affair, you pain becomes so much longer. She needs to recognise that complete truth in one go is more merciful and effective than dragging it out. Either way there is no guarantee that you will not leave.

 

Three months after reconcilliation you will go into an angry period and she needs to be able to support you during this time.

 

Meanwhile, have her write an email to you describing the events that led to her infidelity. This method is useful in that you are not going to explode when she releases further details. Respond to her in email.

 

Prepare for a lot of foggy stuff until she "gets it". Sift, we will try to help.

 

The consequence of her action must be exposure to the appropriate people. Ask their help in saving your marriage. You are not out of the woods yet. See if she will post a no contact (NC) letter. You must approve it before she sends it. Check out the marriage builder site for NC examples.

[Chi townD]

Some people want to know everything, and the some people don't.

 

For the ones that do, they want to know because the mind is a very powerful thing. Without knowing the full details of what happened, that persons mind can make up different scenario's of what happened, and these "mind movies" start to take a toll.

 

just my two cents.

[samspade]

Reminds me of that scene in Closer where Clive Owen keeps pressing Julia Roberts about all the little things she did when she cheated. He just gets angrier and angrier.

 

When a woman cheats, it's (usually) emotionally first, then physically. (A man might cheat physically first, if that makes sense, with no emotional connection.) Therefore if your wife had a six month affair, I'd say the moment she even considered ***king the guy, all bets were off. From there the details are pretty much irrelevant once she broached the physical rubicon. Her interest in him was sufficiently high, and her investment in you sufficiently low, to justify in her mind the affair. What more do you need to know? Besides the name and number of a divorce lawyer I mean.

 

Not that it matters now, but you pressing her for gory details only confirms for her your insecure beta status to his alpha. And it reminds her how hot and amazing her encounter was with this guy. If you let her off the hook, you're in for more trouble.

[seren]

To be honest, I wanted to know everything, every teeny tiny detail and I got it, it hurt like hell, but once I had it all I could understand what it was about, what had happened, everything. That way there was nothing that could bite me in the bum later, I also think that it helped my H to see it for what it was too. Saying it out loud made it real, to be honest, it also served for my H to see what he had risked our marriage for, and not being dispariging to anyone, but it really wasn't all that. Would that it was, the nothingness of it just made it harder, but it was what it was.

 

I limited the time I specifically asked questions, both for me and H and our relastionship, I continued asking and re asking the same things over and over until I just got fed up asking. My H at times, didn't want to answer because it made him feel so dammed awful, but my view was if we are to move on from this, then I need to ask what I want in order to decide if I wanted to stay. Informed choices and all that.

 

The best thing I gave my H was the letter from A Betrayed Spouse from SI, it helped him to see what and why I needed to piece together in my head. I personally found SI far too vitrolic. I hope it works out for you

[Donewrong]

I was "the cheater". I provided my husband all the details of my interaction with the OM. The problem is he don't believe it and is constantly telling me if I don't tell him what I'm hiding he'll never trust me again and yes I understand his issues with not trusting. I guess what I'm saying is you have to sit back and think hard about wanting to know the details. If she gives you the details will you be able to accept it or not. It is a personal preference whether or not you want to know the details or not.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Donewrong

[2sure]

No, you neither NEED or really want all the gory details.

What you need and want is the truth.

Not a version of it, not truth told by force.

 

You need and want to know that your spouse wants to come clean with you, is not hiding things from you, has made themselves accountable to the marriage and knows that you have every right and expectation to be an involved participant.

 

You need and want the truth about the affair because if your WS has any reason or intent to hide any aspect of it from you...then you are still being betrayed by them.

 

If a WS is sincere and honest...the BS need for gory details fades. If a BS feels and knows that the betrayal has been revealed, opened, and is on the table ...they come to realize that the affair partner and the details are not a threat.

[What_Next]

2sure what a great way to put things. Thanks for that perspective.

 

It seems a common thread that the WS ALWAYS has to almost interrogated in order for them to come clean, to tell the complete truth.

 

Donewrong offered little details herself, without me attempting to drag them out of her.

 

See for me, once D-day happens one of the most important things to occur is almost right away is for the WS to stop, instantly and to come 100% clean all the way. No hidden details, no little stories, no cover ups, just out with it.

 

Now it was impossible for Donewrong to do that, as I was too angry at the time, but when that calmed if she had we might be much further ahead then we are now.

 

That's the nugget that most WS seem to miss and not understand.

[2sure]

I would, in hindsight, offer this word of caution to a BS:

 

It is completely natural, valid, and right to not trust a word that initially comes out of someones mouth when they have been caught. They are on defense. All you know for sure is that they have lied to you and betrayed you. So no, you dont trust what they say.

 

But then...as you hopefully realize that the two of you want to work through this crisis...if the WS stays defensive (which is an inclination I'm told)then you get trickle truth, or answers to your guesses. Even if a WS answers your questions...if thats all they do...its not the truth as it needs to be given. Its withholding, its omission, its betrayal.

 

I think if a remorseful WS soon after D-Day said:

 

I want to tell you the truth. I want to be able to tell you the truth. I want you to be able to hear it.

 

That would be a good start.

 

But to get gory details often leaves a BS a visual that doesnt go away.

[hoping2heal]

Hi, first-time poster here who appreciates the diversity of experience and opinion on here. I won't go into a long story today but I wanted some feedback on how much detail is useful and when does it just become pointless?

 

I'm in my early 40's and have been with my wife for 7 years, having got married a year ago. We have an adorable one-year old son who turns me into a happy blubbering wreck even now. My wife had a 6-month affair a year or two before we got married and although he left the country and they never talked for ages, she has now spent the last few months instant messaging him with nostalgic, craving messages. I caught her out 3 weeks ago and my world was turned upside down. I haven't decided (in my state) what the next actions are and I may post details some other time but for today, I want to ask a simple question about gathering the truth and the facts of what happened.

 

When does the sordid detail become too much info that is not useful?

I am sickened and raging inside with the threachery and I have an impulse to want to know everything. I have transcripts of her online conversations which I have shown her btu I am never satisfied that I have all the truth (because D-Day was a mission of me pulling her tongue to make her talk). I am about to print off all these chats and insert questions into them and ask her to answer them. I mean a mixture of specific questions (did you do this or that) and general ones (what were you thinking when...). It feels a bit like doing a report and smacking her over the head with it... What's driving me is the injustice I feel obviously but also the bitterness that the only confession I got out of her was what I dragged out of her.

 

Is wanting to know ALL the sordid detail just anger that is not really useful?

Does it depend on the individual? Be great to hear your opinion on this.

 

thanks

 

I think the gory details can stay out. However, I can understand how the disclosure of them could A) help determine the cheaters mindset as another poster mentioned B) almost serve to make you feel like you are getting the "truth" from an un- truthful person. I really am not sure I am explaining that right. Plus, knowing the details means it no longer is between the two people having the affair, in a way you are part of it to now, and it takes away from the fact that they share something "intimate" just between the two of them.

 

The fact that your wife has betrayed you not once, but twice - must leave you with a lot of doubt about things and while I can't know for sure it almost seems to just be part of her character.

 

I think you need to decide what you want to do and then decide wether the details are necessary. e.g do you want to stay in this marriage and work things out? Do you want to get out of this marriage? Etc

[thomasb]

My wife asked innumerable questions for years. I answered them all in detail. She even asked the same questions only phrased slightly differently. She said that she needed to know every detail because otherwise it would seem there were secrets kept between myself and OW that excluded her. We share every detail of our lives now, good and bad, honestly. Only with that in mind can you reach forgiveness. My wife told me that if I had lied or trickle-truthed her, she would have filed for divorce. Affairs are built on lies and secrecy, a marriage should be built on honesty, integrity and truth. Now ours is!

[Dexter Morgan]

Is wanting to know ALL the sordid detail just anger that is not really useful?

Does it depend on the individual? Be great to hear your opinion on this.

 

knowing the details has no bearing on anything.

 

all that matters is that cheating happened. details are irrelevant.

 

many people want details because they have been basically mentally abused by their betrayer, they aren't thinking clearly, they are desperate, scared.

 

they think that if they hear details and it doesn't sound bad that they can justify giving the POS cheater a 2nd chance.

 

and I guarantee, it NEVER does not sound bad. knowing details only makes it worse, as if it isn't worse enough.

 

the only detail that needs to be known is that a SO is a cheater.

[wicar1]

Hi, first-time poster here who appreciates the diversity of experience and opinion on here. I won't go into a long story today but I wanted some feedback on how much detail is useful and when does it just become pointless?

 

I'm in my early 40's and have been with my wife for 7 years, having got married a year ago. We have an adorable one-year old son who turns me into a happy blubbering wreck even now. My wife had a 6-month affair a year or two before we got married and although he left the country and they never talked for ages, she has now spent the last few months instant messaging him with nostalgic, craving messages. I caught her out 3 weeks ago and my world was turned upside down. I haven't decided (in my state) what the next actions are and I may post details some other time but for today, I want to ask a simple question about gathering the truth and the facts of what happened.

 

When does the sordid detail become too much info that is not useful?

I am sickened and raging inside with the threachery and I have an impulse to want to know everything. I have transcripts of her online conversations which I have shown her btu I am never satisfied that I have all the truth (because D-Day was a mission of me pulling her tongue to make her talk). I am about to print off all these chats and insert questions into them and ask her to answer them. I mean a mixture of specific questions (did you do this or that) and general ones (what were you thinking when...). It feels a bit like doing a report and smacking her over the head with it... What's driving me is the injustice I feel obviously but also the bitterness that the only confession I got out of her was what I dragged out of her.

 

Is wanting to know ALL the sordid detail just anger that is not really useful?

Does it depend on the individual? Be great to hear your opinion on this.

 

thanks

 

Even if she answers your questions.. how do you know she's telling the truth? She is not a trustworthy, honest person. Can you trust her words?

[YellowShark]

Even if she answers your questions.. how do you know she's telling the truth? She is not a trustworthy, honest person. Can you trust her words?

 

I agree with wicar1. As the BS I couldn't trust a word that came out of her mouth. She lied about the two affairs she had, and she even lied to our therapist as well. So all I DID know for sure is she lies.

 

Therefore even if I asked her all the sordid details of her two affairs the only thing I knew for sure was she is probably lying. The details that came out of her mouth were irrelevant.

[Spark1111]

I would, in hindsight, offer this word of caution to a BS:

 

It is completely natural, valid, and right to not trust a word that initially comes out of someones mouth when they have been caught. They are on defense. All you know for sure is that they have lied to you and betrayed you. So no, you dont trust what they say.

 

But then...as you hopefully realize that the two of you want to work through this crisis...if the WS stays defensive (which is an inclination I'm told)then you get trickle truth, or answers to your guesses. Even if a WS answers your questions...if thats all they do...its not the truth as it needs to be given. Its withholding, its omission, its betrayal.

 

I think if a remorseful WS soon after D-Day said:

 

I want to tell you the truth. I want to be able to tell you the truth. I want you to be able to hear it.

 

That would be a good start.

 

But to get gory details often leaves a BS a visual that doesnt go away.

 

I agree with this. And sometimes the degree of detail is really up to the BS.

 

I didn't need sex positions. I just needed to hear truth that made sense to me.

 

That took a while, and many marriages do NOT make it past this initial stage after DDAY, when the WS is just filled with justifications of some sort.

 

They say more marriages crumble in the AFTERMATH of an affair, than it its initial discovery.

 

Because to mumble something inane like, "I never meant to hurt you," while the BS is in one, big, ball of pain, seems totally ludicrous.

 

The immediate translation of that statement to a BS is, "I never hoped to get caught by you," showing their almost pathological level of compartmentalizing the affair.

 

Everyone is different, but I believe to restore the trust and intimacy that had been shattered by the affair takes a lot of willful truth-telling on the part of the WS.

[What_Next]

Because to mumble something inane like, "I never meant to hurt you," while the BS is in one, big, ball of pain, seems totally ludicrous.

 

The immediate translation of that statement to a BS is, "I never hoped to get caught by you," showing their almost pathological level of compartmentalizing the affair.

 

A very important point in that post Spark1111. A very important point. For those of us BS it takes time and effort to NOT feel like that when the BS makes such a statement.

 

Everyone is different, but I believe to restore the trust and intimacy that had been shattered by the affair takes a lot of willful truth-telling on the part of the WS.

 

This is most definitely true as well and while it sounds obvious, it sometimes isn't to the WS. They need to truly understand what truth-telling really is. Not only coming clean on the various acts, but in a more general sense.

[road]

Very few BH have only wanted to be told the affair was over. Never wanted to ask or discuss the affair.

 

Most want to know everything that happened.

 

Some BH want every detail.

 

So as you can see the need how much to know depends on the BS to heal. The problem is that the WS will not give the BS what they need and this is why recovery fails, stalls, never completed.

[freestyle]

I can't presume to speak for every BS, as we all have different emotional makeups, but for myself:

 

I can't forgive unless I know exactly what it is I'm forgiving.

 

After the insult of being left in the dark for however long, I need every wall to be torn down. No, I don't need graphic sexual details, but yes, I want to know if it was physical or not. And for how long.

 

Only then would I feel like I could make an accurate assessment and evaluation of whether or not to stay in the relationship.

[Linda9999]

I also can't speak for every BS, but for me, I initially needed to know details so that I knew there were no more secrets. When I thought I did have all the details, I kept digging because there were gaps. Then came Dday#2 and it started all over again.

 

WH answers my questions now, he didn't at first. He thought that in order to move on I needed to bury it all. Um NO!! I need to know what he did, or how can I know whether I can ever move past it?

[Spark1111]

I also can't speak for every BS, but for me, I initially needed to know details so that I knew there were no more secrets. When I thought I did have all the details, I kept digging because there were gaps. Then came Dday#2 and it started all over again.

 

WH answers my questions now, he didn't at first. He thought that in order to move on I needed to bury it all. Um NO!! I need to know what he did, or how can I know whether I can ever move past it?

 

Your spouse is NOT unusual.

 

Generally, a truly remorseful WS ALSO has a process to go through; one that ALSO includes denial, anger, guilt, shame, bargaining and acceptance.

 

And the worse they feel about their affair actions, the less likely they are to embrace the truth telling necessary to heal their BS. Unless they have successful IC and MC and the courage to do so, which can take some time for a person who avoids conflict, needs external validation, and has poor communication skills -- the three common characteristics many cheaters share.

 

Couple that with shame and guilt, it can be a long arduous process to truly get to the "truth" of the matter.

 

In fact, entire threads have been started to list the rediculous things WSs say after DDay and the common two to three-month flip-flopping that goes on as they try to withdraw from their drug-- the AP.

 

Many, many BS cannot last long enough to weather this process, and frankly, who could blame them??????????????????

[Distant78]

It's for whoever feels they need the gory details. It's their marriage so if they want them, they have a right to them.

[Big Cat]

@imagine – I don’t think I'd want to ask for help saving the marriage! Anyway right now I’m not after reconciliation… I don’t know what I want apart from getting at the whole truth. Not sure what an NC is, but she broke it off immediately.

 

@samspade I sort of wish I could see it black & white, but I’m not clear on calling it a day right now. I agree all bets are off when someone cheats but disagree that wanting to know detail puts me as beta against his alpha – this is not true though having to ask can create feelings of inferiority... I got round that by knowing exactly what I wanted to ask and sort of banging through my questions

 

@2sure –I’m not left with the feeling she bared her soul and that’s what eats me. If there is one thing I’m sure of in my knackered head, it’s that she has to come clean and offer something herself. I’d know when she’s done that and there can never even be a thought of reconciling without that.

 

@hoping2heal – the screwed up thing is that I want to know the truth and I cant decide what I want until that point… also, I would classify her as a serial cheater which might sound abit pathetic given she cheated!

 

@wicar1 & YellowShark – Yes you can not know 100% she’s telling the truth… it’s down to your gut feeling - if you feel they are not being open then there is no way to try reconciling… if you feel they have been open, you’ve then got to think about whether to seek the rebuilding of trust, when the WS has already shown they can coldly and manipulatingly lie to you!! That’s very demanding so I understand many people’s inclination not to want to stare that particular monster in the face… for myself, I’m not sure where I stand yet, but all this is making me work hard in assessing myself and what I want etc, and I sometimes resent that – its like I got cheated on but I’m the one that has to do most of the work afterward too…

[Big Cat]

Your spouse is NOT unusual.

 

Generally, a truly remorseful WS ALSO has a process to go through; one that ALSO includes denial, anger, guilt, shame, bargaining and acceptance.

 

And the worse they feel about their affair actions, the less likely they are to embrace the truth telling necessary to heal their BS. Unless they have successful IC and MC and the courage to do so, which can take some time for a person who avoids conflict, needs external validation, and has poor communication skills -- the three common characteristics many cheaters share.

 

Couple that with shame and guilt, it can be a long arduous process to truly get to the "truth" of the matter.

 

In fact, entire threads have been started to list the rediculous things WSs say after DDay and the common two to three-month flip-flopping that goes on as they try to withdraw from their drug-- the AP.

 

Many, many BS cannot last long enough to weather this process, and frankly, who could blame them??????????????????

 

This all sounds eerily accurate... that's the real problem a BS has... you're constantly gettign tripped up by not knowing if you have the whole truth...

 

Talking about gory detail though, what I did in practise was think of all the gory questions I had and fired them at her and rushed her for quick answers... the fact that I didn't dwell on the answers was probably because I'd already decided my approach and went about it coldly and quickly... I now know that it was right (for me) to avoid an extended and graphic version of goings-on but I should qualify that with a couple of things: it was only a couple of days ago she told me and my feelings change a lot these days; secondly the further detail I got was not horrific... that's just my story to date but like I said feelings can change too.. you're never quite out of the woods on anything when you;ve been cheated on.

[Spark1111]

This all sounds eerily accurate... that's the real problem a BS has... you're constantly gettign tripped up by not knowing if you have the whole truth...

 

Talking about gory detail though, what I did in practise was think of all the gory questions I had and fired them at her and rushed her for quick answers... the fact that I didn't dwell on the answers was probably because I'd already decided my approach and went about it coldly and quickly... I now know that it was right (for me) to avoid an extended and graphic version of goings-on but I should qualify that with a couple of things: it was only a couple of days ago she told me and my feelings change a lot these days; secondly the further detail I got was not horrific... that's just my story to date but like I said feelings can change too.. you're never quite out of the woods on anything when you;ve been cheated on.

 

I agree with you Big Cat!

 

My imagination was 10x worse than a lot of the silly banality of the situation!

 

The truth, when I could get it, was actually a relief for me. Other people may be different.

 

AS FOR FEELINGS CHANGING?

 

Oh yeah, I rode that rollercoaster for a long time. But the MORE information I had, the more stable I Felt. At least I knew what I was being asked to forgive, and if I could forgive it.

 

Good luck to you!