Rebuild trust

[What_Next]

Really Long version:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t233265/

 

short version:

 

Me 36, Her 34, 1 child 11, 1 dog, 1 cat, several hermit crabs...

 

Marriage was not great, I was not a great husband, no abuse, but lack of compassion, lack of time together etc.

 

We had been together almost 20 years, married for 6. She began an EA online, which turned into a PA.

 

D-day end of August. We now live in seperate apartments, but very close to each other.

 

I began to date after I found out what she did, fell into a rebound relationship that I should never have gotten into.

 

About 6 weeks ago I broke it off and decided to attempt a reconciliation. We are attending MC, she is attending IC.

 

Things are getting worse for me as I just do not see how I will ever be able to trust her again. I just do not know where or how to begin this process.

 

I am open to any and all ideas.

[Dexter Morgan]

it will never be possible to gain 100% trust again.

 

you now know she is a cheater, and her desire for another man isn't going to change, whether she actually stops cheating or not.

 

you could come to a point, if you stay in the marriage, where you simply aren't bothered that much by what happened, but that can take years. And even then you will have triggers and look at her in disgust.

 

IMO, best to move on. but if you stay with her, you will simply have to deal with being suspicious from time to time.

 

also, you will feel like you have to monitor her every move almost and I don't think you want to be anyone's dad.

 

thats why I left. no way was I going to look at her on a daily basis and say to myself...."this is not my life"

[UnsureinSeattle]

I've never fully been able to fully reestablish trust with my longtime girlfriend- and that was just from a seies of emotional affairs- nothing compared to what you've been thru. However, she seems genuinely clueless that her behavior doesn't lead to regaining my trust. Only by being trustworthy will your wife actually BE trustworthy, y'know? My gf seems willing to accept that I'm always going to have some reason to distrust her... and only talks about reestablishing my trust... she never does anything about it.

 

I would say that, from what I've seen here, your wife seems repentant and wants to work on it with you, so your situation is different than mine. As long as she maintains transparency, and, maybe more importantly, communicates with you openly, I think it'll go a long way to restablishing your trust.

[YellowShark]

Things are getting worse for me as I just do not see how I will ever be able to trust her again. I just do not know where or how to begin this process.

 

I am open to any and all ideas.

 

 

Here's what happened to me. My EX cheated. I caught her. We did the MC dance. She made all these promises to me and the therapist. For the next couple years I never really trusted her 100%.. even though I did my best to.

 

She used that lack of trust after-the-fact to GASLIGHT me. She often claimed my so-called "trust issue" was hurting the relationship... when in fact her affair drove the wedge into our seemingly-perfect relationship.

 

Then she cheated again.

 

And that's what cheaters do What_Next. They have no problem with betrayal and then using your lack of trust to gaslight you. One time out of ten the cheater will not do that and the relationship rebuilds and survives, nine times out of ten the cheater eventually cheats again because that's who they are.

 

So my advice is try to make it work if you really love her, maybe you'll be the one time out of ten where it works out. But I agree with you.. it is sooooo frikkin' difficult to trust again once your emotional and financial partner throws you under a bus.

 

Best of luck.

[Owl]

WN, I'd say that it's POSSIBLE to rebuild trust in some marriages after infidelity...and I'm in one that has...but I'll also agree with the other posters here and say that it certainly doesn't happen in every one.

 

My thoughts on things that might play a factor:

 

1. Did she end the affair and offer reconciliation voluntarily?

2. What has she offered on her own to do in order to rebuild your trust in her?

3. Has she been willing and forthcoming with whatever information you've asked for about the affair since you've decided to reconcile? (In other words, has she 'fessed up about HOW she conducted the affair, how she hid it from you, etc...?)

4. Does she TRULY seem to "get it", and appears to be truly repentent and remorseful for what she's done to you?

[2sunny]

WN, I'd say that it's POSSIBLE to rebuild trust in some marriages after infidelity...and I'm in one that has...but I'll also agree with the other posters here and say that it certainly doesn't happen in every one.

 

My thoughts on things that might play a factor:

 

1. Did she end the affair and offer reconciliation voluntarily?

2. What has she offered on her own to do in order to rebuild your trust in her?

3. Has she been willing and forthcoming with whatever information you've asked for about the affair since you've decided to reconcile? (In other words, has she 'fessed up about HOW she conducted the affair, how she hid it from you, etc...?)

4. Does she TRULY seem to "get it", and appears to be truly repentent and remorseful for what she's done to you?

 

 

i too, would like to know what has "changed" - specifically in her. what action has she taken to be sure that she won't do it again?

 

if i remember correctly - her attitude and sense of entitlement was in her way... has any of that changed?

 

i have a million more questions - but that should allow me a place to start and gain some understanding of where you two are now with this process...

[Distant78]

That's why I left my XW also because I could no longer take her disrespect, lies and a kid that wasn't mine. I've been reading your story and you've been through a lot. Cheating creates a whole new plate of issues. Just remember this regarding reconciliation: You'll never fully trust her again(and there will always be a chance where she'll cheat again). You might be able to regain some of that trust back but things will never be the same. My additional advice to you is that she has to put most of the reconciliation work in and if she resists you or disrespect you in any obvious or subtle way, call it off. You can still find someone better if this doesn't go the way you want it because to be real, I don't think she cares anymore after how you described her actions in your other thread.

[What_Next]

Owl, a great post. I will answer your questions.

 

1. Well on D-day I found out the final truth. She 'ended it' that day and has not seen him since. I feel she would not have ended it on her own. I was out of town on business at the time and when I returned she begged forgiveness and wanted to reconcile from day one. I pressed forward, moved out and got myself into an ill fated relationship with another woman. The actual reconciliation, I went to her and told her I'd give her a chance, she took it without hesitation.

 

2. What has she offered to help me rebuilt trust, well she is compling with my demands of knowing her where-abouts at all times. Allowing me full and complete access to any and all email/cell etc. I'll be honest and say that has done nothing to rebuild my trust.

 

3. She offered up whatever information I have asked about her affair eventually. Up front, no she didn't, but she claims she has now. I have verifiable proof of the times she was with him, but of course I can never be 100% sure of what she did with him. For the record I DO NOT believe all of what she has told me about her affair. That is a sticking point for me.

 

4. Does she "get it", well does she realize the severity of what she has done? Yes. Does she realize that if she ever pulls any crap like this again I'd be out the door in a second? Yes. Is she truly remorseful, for the most part yes but I doubt her sincerity.

 

2sunny, her day to day actions have drastically changed with regards to how she interacts with me, how she acts towards me etc. She is 180 degrees in the other direction and I commend her fully for that. As am I. I realize that I was a terrible husband (no excuse for her cheating) and I have made every effort to change myself.

 

She appears willing to go the distance, but at it's very core for me it's that complete and utter lack of trust that is eating away at me. I love her, there is no questioning that, as I had told our MC last night, Love is NOT enough by itself. I am certainly not willing to take a leap of faith and just trust in her again. In fact I doubt I ever will fully trust again.

 

She is trying, I know that, in fact almost anything I or her IC suggests she is willing to attempt, but for me none of it has been enough.

 

I am just struggling with where to begin and even if I should begin.

[YellowShark]

I am just struggling with where to begin and even if I should begin.

 

Visualize a gastank. Instead of gas in the tank the tank WAS full of trust. Your wife's affair emptied ALL of that trust out of that tank. On D-Day it became bone dry.

 

Since you two were together for 20 years it will take years to re-fill the tank to where it was the day before D-Day. And that is just the reality you and your wife need to accept.

[Owl]

Well...it sounds like you've started down the right path.

 

You might seriously consider marriage counseling, especially with a counselor who understands the dynamics of what infidelity does to a marriage and has a good plan on how to help a marriage recover.

 

Our MC was absolutely ESSENTIAL to our recovery. He was great...he really didn't "side" with either of us...just helped the two of us to see each other's views and improved our communication greatly.

 

The other thing to consider is that it takes a considerable length of time and effort on both parts to make reconciliation work. I've read some 'authorities' claims that it takes 2-5 years if everyone does everything right...and I'm inclined to believe it.

 

It was about 2 years before I truly considered my marriage "recovered" and my trust as restored as it could get.

 

Now...I both agree and disagree with the idea of ever being able to trust a spouse 100% after an affair. I will agree..."blind trust" is a shattered commodity after suffering through infidelity as a BS. I don't "blindly trust" my wife anymore. With that said...I wouldn't "blindly trust" anyone after havnig been blindsided by cheating once. In truth, I really believe my wife suffered and learned a great deal from what we went through...I don't believe she'll cheat again. And I now know that NO marriage is affair-proof. I would never trust a spouse "blindly" again...whether or not it was my wife or someone else.

 

So get set for the long-haul if you're going to reconcile. Don't expect to wake up tomorrow suddenly feeling 'recovered'. It's a process more than it's a goal.

 

Decide each day whether or not your relationship with your wife is worth pursuing that day. If you find that you're spending all your time deciding it's not...then divorce may be your best alternative. Realistically, not everyone can rebuild that trust, nor can every marriage "be saved" after one spouse has cheated. But it does happen for some. Time, effort, and attitude will eventually determine if yours is one or not.

[What_Next]

Yellowshark, good analogy, I like that. Especially since I just dropped $50 into my truck today and it only brought it up to less than half full (the pains of driving a truck here in Canada...).

 

Owl, we already are in MC. Last night was our second session. Honestly, I don't hold any stock in it. I find MC/IC to be a bunch of overpriced bulls__t. I know it works for some, but it doesn't seem to have any impact on me (except for the first councilor we tried back in June when I threatened to punch him in the head...). I am only giving our current MC one more try and then I'm done with her.

 

Your point is well take regarding the time spent on the "decision" aspect because a large portion of the last 6 weeks since I decided to giver her a chance for me have been spent on that very fact. I only realized it recently though, a telling sign.

 

I was already aware of the length of time to recovery, and I have little issue with that. It's just this journey of 1,000 miles needs to begin somewhere and it seems I cannot or will not take that first step. Or maybe I have and I am still to overwhelmed to realize it.

 

Perhaps it's time to heed 2sunny's advice in my other thread and step back. I have the luxury (although it's no luxury to pay for) my own place and she has her own place. Perhaps more time apart is what the Dr. ordered.

[2sunny]

Yellowshark, good analogy, I like that. Especially since I just dropped $50 into my truck today and it only brought it up to less than half full (the pains of driving a truck here in Canada...).

 

Owl, we already are in MC. Last night was our second session. Honestly, I don't hold any stock in it. I find MC/IC to be a bunch of overpriced bulls__t. I know it works for some, but it doesn't seem to have any impact on me (except for the first councilor we tried back in June when I threatened to punch him in the head...). I am only giving our current MC one more try and then I'm done with her.

 

Your point is well take regarding the time spent on the "decision" aspect because a large portion of the last 6 weeks since I decided to giver her a chance for me have been spent on that very fact. I only realized it recently though, a telling sign.

 

I was already aware of the length of time to recovery, and I have little issue with that. It's just this journey of 1,000 miles needs to begin somewhere and it seems I cannot or will not take that first step. Or maybe I have and I am still to overwhelmed to realize it.

 

Perhaps it's time to heed 2sunny's advice in my other thread and step back. I have the luxury (although it's no luxury to pay for) my own place and she has her own place. Perhaps more time apart is what the Dr. ordered.

 

the priority here is to keep your distance enough to be happy with or without her. stay busy and happy with your child too.

 

she has a ton of work to do - let her do it. get busy living and enjoying a life on your own for a long while until she sifts through the wreckage of her past... and then see if the new version of what she becomes even looks appealing for you down the road.

 

anything is possible... it really depends on how much she takes the hard work seriously. that - you can't do for her... that's why i say to step away and let her do what needs to be done... and you stay busy finding what happy looks like for you - no matter what the outcome for her in the future.

[fltc]

WN, as I've said before, if you can't trust her you have to end it but you already know my opinion and you're not me so feel free to ignore it, OK? <G>

 

Owl: Please go read through the 23,534,967 pages (OK, I'll admit that's a bit of exaggeration!) of WN's original thread, it'll clear everything up for you, he's a good writer and the thread is very detailed. You can ignore all posts in the thread NOT by WN so that'll speed you up a bit.

[PerpetualMotion]

I'm a long time lurker that has finally decided to try to contribute to a place that has taught me a lot.

 

W_N, maybe I'm wrong but, from what you wrote, I get the impression that she's probably doing everything that you and the counselors say, but not coming up with her own ideas on how to help you rebuild the trust. Maybe this is contributing to your feeling that it's taking longer to "fill the tank".

[What_Next]

fltc, I am definitely not ignoring your posts. I don't trust her no, I guess my question is whether or not I will eventually learn to again.

 

PerpetualMotion, you are correct. She is not coming up with things on her own right now. She (like me) doesn't necessarily know how to handle this situaion. She is trying, she has genuine remorse. I believe that. However, I believe little else she says.

 

I am still sleeping at my place and sharing time with our child as much as possible. I am only seeing her (wife) on the weekends right now and I am taking it a step at a time. She will have to be patient.

[2sunny]

fltc, I am definitely not ignoring your posts. I don't trust her no, I guess my question is whether or not I will eventually learn to again.

 

PerpetualMotion, you are correct. She is not coming up with things on her own right now. She (like me) doesn't necessarily know how to handle this situaion. She is trying, she has genuine remorse. I believe that. However, I believe little else she says.

 

I am still sleeping at my place and sharing time with our child as much as possible. I am only seeing her (wife) on the weekends right now and I am taking it a step at a time. She will have to be patient.

 

to have remorse is much different than when a person takes action that goes along with that feeling.

 

it doesn't matter how we feel - it only matters what we DO.

 

start paying attention to her actions - not her words.

 

what she does or doesn't do will allow you to understand everything you need to know. that's why it helps to step waaaay back - so you can actually "see" what is going on instead of being sucked in to listen to words (that most times don't mean a thing).