The talk....

[calliope]

So I just got back from talking with MM who 4 days ago once again broke my heart. He knew I wanted to talk & called this a.m, said he's outside my house - I went out & we went for a drive. He brought me coffee...

 

At one point (I guess when he felt uncomfortable) he started to head back to my house. I wasn't finished saying what I had to say, so I freaked out and said I was sick of him dictating everything in our relationship and always being in control with me following along like a f**king puppy. Told him to park somewhere til I had my say.

 

When he parked and turned off the engine, I took the keys.

 

He said everything I thought he'd say, "I'm not coming back..." "I have to try and figure out where I am..." "I have to give it another go at home to see if I can make it work...", blah, blah, blah. I'm sure a lot of you on here can just fill in the rest because you've heard the exact same things.

 

He said he's going to IC on Friday. I said it's a good thing & he needs it. He said he wants to try to get himself straightened out, figure out where he's going/what he wants, etc. Said he has a lot to deal with and finally realized he can't do it alone.

 

When he started to drive me home, I asked if he was going to MC. He said yes, and I could tell he had lied to me about IC! (He's a terrible liar which is why I can't figure out how he got away w/A for so long..!)

 

I called him on it, he confessed that yes, Fri is MC, not IC. I said he's still lying to me - he asked how that's lying. I said that's not working on himself, that's working on the relationship, why didn't he just say that? He split hairs and said that it's still working on himself - isn't it?? Arg...

 

I spilled out everything I could possibly think to spill out because at this point I have nothing left to lose.

 

I told him I love him and want to spend my life with him, something he's also said to me in the past. He asked me to not say that, but why the hell shouldn't I? I'm not going to make this easy for him by not saying the things he doesn't want to hear... I told him I'd still be here for him when he needs me - again, he didn't want to hear that. He asked me to not try to influence him, I said if he's going to MC, she's trying to influence him, so why shouldn't I? He said I had a point.

 

I said that I can't understand why he's leaving a woman he's in love with now and wants to marry now, to try to work things out with a woman he used to love and may have wanted to marry at some point. (He had told me in the past many times that he always thought he'd remarry but after 9 years together, he no more wants to marry her than the first day he met her).

 

I know their MC will not work. He's not a communicator and also doesn't want to do anything that will rock the boat. He's confided things to me that he's never told her and I know he never will.

 

Even now as he's trying to work things out at home he's keeping secrets from her. 3 days ago something really big happened at work as a result of our A and he's taking the next couple of weeks off because of it. I asked him if he told her about it, because I knew he hadn't. Sure enough, he didn't tell her. I said "well that's a great way to try to work things out..." I said "she thinks you're just taking time off to clear your head & stay away from me, doesn't she?" He said "yes". I told him I know him better after only 16 months of off & on sporadic back & forth than she does after 9 years. He said, "you probably do..."

 

So now I'm starting NC/LC. NC when not at work, LC when at work. Luckily my schedule over the next month doesn't coincide with his much, so it should be easy enough to try to do. And I know that the longer I go, the easier it gets.

 

.....wish me luck....

Edited December 9, 2010 by calliope
wrong title

[TaraMaiden]

Good luck.

 

but in your shoes, I wouldn't be there for him.

 

He's a prevaricating indecisive, deceitful and selfish jerk, and frankly, they're qualities which denote a spineless character in general.

 

he's a player and he uses people.

He's anally expressive and a coward.

 

OK, I'll stop now..

Again - Good Luck.

[calliope]

Don't worry... I get your message!

 

I have no intention of being here for him anymore unless he's not there anymore...permanently.

[Owl]

Here's what I don't get...

 

Why are YOU interested in having a long term relationship with him if/when he does end his marriage?

 

He's lied to you....repeatedly.

 

You've spelled out he's a horrible communicator, and indicated that you don't believe that MC will work nor that he'll recover his marriage because of this.

 

What leads you to honestly believe that things will be different with you as opposed to her?

 

It sounds to me like he's the biggest source of all his "issues"...not her. He'll bring those issues with him into any relationship he has...whether its with you, her, or the grocer down the street.

 

Why put yourself in this risky situation?

[woinlove]

Like Owl, I also can't understand why you say you want to spend you life with this man and why you say you will be there for him when he needs you. I'd use this opportunity (of him showing you that he lies and jerks you around) to move on and to not be there when he needs you. Let him get his needs met elsewhere.

[Foolish1018]

I feel for you, I really do. I know the feeling of being somoene's puppy dog, just following them around and doing whatever suits them. It's hard to reconcile, especially if you tend to be resolute and independent in other aspects of your life.

 

I agree with the other people here, you shouldn't even bother to continue pursuing a relationship - he clearly doesn't deserve you. Whatever issues there are in his marriage, are likely more his fault than they are hers. Some men like to make themselves the martyr, even though their actions are the reason they are in the situation they dislike so much. One some level, we are having an A w/the same MM!

 

Good luck on the NC/LC - I'm using the same strategy and logic. Let's hope that absence does NOT make the heart grow fonder. Try to focus on those things that you dislike about him. I have 100 pages of IM conversations, and when I need some support, I look at all the times he left me hanging - the proof being there in B&W, helps somehow..

[blinded_27]

So I just got back from talking with MM who 4 days ago once again broke my heart. He knew I wanted to talk & called this a.m, said he's outside my house - I went out & we went for a drive. He brought me coffee...

 

At one point (I guess when he felt uncomfortable) he started to head back to my house. I wasn't finished saying what I had to say, so I freaked out and said I was sick of him dictating everything in our relationship and always being in control with me following along like a f**king puppy. Told him to park somewhere til I had my say.

 

When he parked and turned off the engine, I took the keys.

 

He said everything I thought he'd say, "I'm not coming back..." "I have to try and figure out where I am..." "I have to give it another go at home to see if I can make it work...", blah, blah, blah. I'm sure a lot of you on here can just fill in the rest because you've heard the exact same things.

 

He said he's going to IC on Friday. I said it's a good thing & he needs it. He said he wants to try to get himself straightened out, figure out where he's going/what he wants, etc. Said he has a lot to deal with and finally realized he can't do it alone.

 

When he started to drive me home, I asked if he was going to MC. He said yes, and I could tell he had lied to me about IC! (He's a terrible liar which is why I can't figure out how he got away w/A for so long..!)

 

I called him on it, he confessed that yes, Fri is MC, not IC. I said he's still lying to me - he asked how that's lying. I said that's not working on himself, that's working on the relationship, why didn't he just say that? He split hairs and said that it's still working on himself - isn't it?? Arg...

 

I spilled out everything I could possibly think to spill out because at this point I have nothing left to lose.

 

I told him I love him and want to spend my life with him, something he's also said to me in the past. He asked me to not say that, but why the hell shouldn't I? I'm not going to make this easy for him by not saying the things he doesn't want to hear... I told him I'd still be here for him when he needs me - again, he didn't want to hear that. He asked me to not try to influence him, I said if he's going to MC, she's trying to influence him, so why shouldn't I? He said I had a point.

 

I said that I can't understand why he's leaving a woman he's in love with now and wants to marry now, to try to work things out with a woman he used to love and may have wanted to marry at some point. (He had told me in the past many times that he always thought he'd remarry but after 9 years together, he no more wants to marry her than the first day he met her).

 

I know their MC will not work. He's not a communicator and also doesn't want to do anything that will rock the boat. He's confided things to me that he's never told her and I know he never will.

 

Even now as he's trying to work things out at home he's keeping secrets from her. 3 days ago something really big happened at work as a result of our A and he's taking the next couple of weeks off because of it. I asked him if he told her about it, because I knew he hadn't. Sure enough, he didn't tell her. I said "well that's a great way to try to work things out..." I said "she thinks you're just taking time off to clear your head & stay away from me, doesn't she?" He said "yes". I told him I know him better after only 16 months of off & on sporadic back & forth than she does after 9 years. He said, "you probably do..."

 

So now I'm starting NC/LC. NC when not at work, LC when at work. Luckily my schedule over the next month doesn't coincide with his much, so it should be easy enough to try to do. And I know that the longer I go, the easier it gets.

 

.....wish me luck....

 

WOW. Okay, he sounds EXACTLY like my MM. It's so scary. Right down to the coffee and the talk in the car. The bad communicator, the fact that he lies to your face then admits the truth shortly after getting caught (omg and the "how is that lying" line... UGH!!!! Heard that before).. and STILL lying to his wife when he says he's trying to work things out... I see you're from Canada, so am I... you sure we aren't seeing the same guy?

 

Thing is, he's so similar to my MM, that I know as soon as you cut all contact, he'll be back. Your silence will drive him INSANE. He loves being in control. And believe me, he LOOOOVES that you're telling him that you'll still be around if things don't work out... he sounds super dramatic too (again, just like my MM)... telling you "don't say things like that". It's because he can't handle it. I don't doubt that he loves you and still has strong feelings for you. I'm sure this is hard for him but he's putting on a mask and acting like an ******* to cope with his own feelings of hurt. Once again, I've been through this EXACT scenario.

 

People here are telling you "why would you want to be with a man who does this to you blah blah" And they're right. But I know those words don't change how you feel because you're so "blinded" by your emotions (hence, my username ).

 

I think you're ready to do this. You sound ready. At least try it, and try to stick through it girl... stand your ground. The more you try to contact him and convince him the more he'll pull away. I'm saying this from experience. When he comes back crying to you in a few weeks time (or maybe a few days even) you can be the one to laugh in his face. And if he never comes back, then EVEN BETTER!!!!!!!!!! He'll never be able to recover the marriage. And if he does settle with her, he'll always be a liar, and a cheat, and he'll never be happy. You on the other hand, now have the opportunity to find true happiness for yourself.

 

Good luck

[YellowShark]

Never make someone a priority who only sees you as an option. Forget this dud of a man, he will only bring you endless heartbreak. And please, from now on... stick to single men, they do not carry all this baggage that you are now a victim of.

 

Good luck calliope.

[Mimolicious]

....and never make permanent decisions on temporary feelings.

 

Hone, I would suggest you get a hobby. Apply your time to something worth your while. Like Owl said. Doesn't sound like this guy is a "great catch". Why would you want to waste your time with such a clown?

 

Another one bites the dust! Blinded_27 anything is possible.

Ain't it some shyte?! Seems like it's in the water that so many people behave in such a predictable pattern.

 

I wonder...

[Hazyhead]

Never make someone a priority who only sees you as an option. Forget this dud of a man, he will only bring you endless heartbreak. And please, from now on... stick to single men, they do not carry all this baggage that you are now a victim of.

 

Good luck calliope.

 

Ditto. Please think hard, and try to be as objective as you can when you do, why would he change his behaviour now? If your sister or best friend was in this situation what would you advise her?

 

You know that this is not healthy. You know this. What is your breaking point, calliope? You want even more heartbreak? Because that's what he will bring.

 

Imagine yourself with somebody who puts you first...

[calliope]

I know it's not healthy and I honestly don't know my breaking point. Being the kind of person that I am, I truly would've thought it would have been long ago... And people who know me would agree.

 

I'm mystified by the hold this man has on me.....which is why I'm here.

[Owl]

I know it's not healthy and I honestly don't know my breaking point. Being the kind of person that I am, I truly would've thought it would have been long ago... And people who know me would agree.

 

I'm mystified by the hold this man has on me.....which is why I'm here.

 

Then do something about it.

 

Don't waste your time asking why...focus on DOING what you need to do instead.

[TaraMaiden]

Then I'm going to go all 'Dr Phil' on you.

 

"What's your payoff?"

 

That is, what charm is there that keeps you hungering for more of the same, in spite of the fact that you are losing out in everywhichway? What is feeding which need in you?

 

There is a basic inherent need in you.

What is it?

 

And -

 

"How's that working for you?"

 

Bot Dr Phil-isms, and both worthy of in-depth thinking....

[whichwayisup]

I know it's not healthy and I honestly don't know my breaking point. Being the kind of person that I am, I truly would've thought it would have been long ago... And people who know me would agree.

 

I'm mystified by the hold this man has on me.....which is why I'm here.

 

The problem is, when he changes his mind goes back and forth, it gives you hope. You must have some hope left otherwise you'd dig down deep and end it, stick to NC. NC for you means no continuous pain of dealing with him, being in the affair. A ways for you to begin your grieving process so you can finally heal. To know that that part of your life is a closed door. You've given him so much power .. Take that power back by setting your own boundries and rules, make a promise to YOURSELF and make yourself accountable to that promise (end it completely, throw in the towel and do NC) and stick to it. If you can't, you're letting yourself down. Only you can decide when you're enough is enough phase is. How close are you? Well, it depends on how badly you want to end the A, sick of suffering, being on that rollercoaster ride. I hope for your sake you're very close, otherwise the cat and mouse game will go on for a very long time .. He'll continue to do this to you as long as you let him back in.

[calliope]

Then I'm going to go all 'Dr Phil' on you.

 

"What's your payoff?"

 

That is, what charm is there that keeps you hungering for more of the same, in spite of the fact that you are losing out in everywhichway? What is feeding which need in you?

 

There is a basic inherent need in you.

What is it?

 

And -

 

"How's that working for you?"

 

Bot Dr Phil-isms, and both worthy of in-depth thinking....

I guess what keeps me there is such a strong emotional connection to him that I've never felt with anyone else before, so I have a hard time convincing myself it's not real, even though logically I know that it isn't.

 

Yet it's definitely not working for me.

 

And I honestly know what I have to do, but I saw him just this morning, so the real work is only just beginning...

[calliope]

The problem is, when he changes his mind goes back and forth, it gives you hope. You must have some hope left otherwise you'd dig down deep and end it, stick to NC. NC for you means no continuous pain of dealing with him, being in the affair. A ways for you to begin your grieving process so you can finally heal. To know that that part of your life is a closed door. You've given him so much power .. Take that power back by setting your own boundries and rules, make a promise to YOURSELF and make yourself accountable to that promise (end it completely, throw in the towel and do NC) and stick to it. If you can't, you're letting yourself down. Only you can decide when you're enough is enough phase is. How close are you? Well, it depends on how badly you want to end the A, sick of suffering, being on that rollercoaster ride. I hope for your sake you're very close, otherwise the cat and mouse game will go on for a very long time .. He'll continue to do this to you as long as you let him back in.

NC isn't possible because we work together, but I completely agree it's the way to go if you can.

 

I'll definitely do LC at work, NC outside work. I've done it before and stuck to it for short periods but, like you said, he comes back and offers hope and then I finally cave when he says all the right things.

[2sure]

Calliope - I dont think you are ready to listen to this yet, but I am going to tell you anyway. It is something that many OW and some BS come to terms with as they move on from an affair or a marriage broken by infidelity.

 

From your posts you are still of the mind set that you are competing with his wife for him. Pointing out reasons that he should leave her. Comparing you and your relationship to their marriage. Blaming his wife for influencing him, making him unable to decide what is best.

 

You've got to stop that.

 

Until you stop considering those things you are blinded by them from whats really happening. HE IS making decisions.

[whichwayisup]

I guess what keeps me there is such a strong emotional connection to him that I've never felt with anyone else before, so I have a hard time convincing myself it's not real, even though logically I know that it isn't.

 

Yet it's definitely not working for me.

 

And I honestly know what I have to do, but I saw him just this morning, so the real work is only just beginning...

 

So what? You're connected to him on some level. You love him, have sexual lust etc... Doesn't mean you have to have him, or him you. He is married, and isn't leaving his wife. REALITY. Fact. SO, try to get rid of your hope and wishes that he will be yours one day. Cliche, but time heals all wounds. Don't be afraid of the pain of losing him. Just know that as time goes on you will feel better, feel stronger and survive this.

 

NC isn't possible because we work together, but I completely agree it's the way to go if you can.

 

I'll definitely do LC at work, NC outside work. I've done it before and stuck to it for short periods but, like you said, he comes back and offers hope and then I finally cave when he says all the right things.

 

Only speak to him about work related issues. Anything outside of that, you ignore him, don't speak to him, don't even look his way, don't answer any personal emails or calls from him. ONLY WORK RELATED ISSUES.

Be active with the NC. Not only in person but in your head. No more wishing, hoping, reminising, dreaming, fantasizing. A thought of him comes into your head (oh I miss him, love him etc) you stop and distract yourself. call a friend, put on music, dance, sing, do something, anything to change your thought patterns. BE STRONG and prove to yourself that you CAN do this.

 

If you fall back in, and fall for his crap lines, that's on you. Stop allowing him to give you hope. IT's just words!!!!! And he is very good at reading you, manipulating you selfishly to get what he wants. Get mad, be fed up!

[whichwayisup]

Calliope - I dont think you are ready to listen to this yet, but I am going to tell you anyway. It is something that many OW and some BS come to terms with as they move on from an affair or a marriage broken by infidelity.

 

From your posts you are still of the mind set that you are competing with his wife for him. Pointing out reasons that he should leave her. Comparing you and your relationship to their marriage. Blaming his wife for influencing him, making him unable to decide what is best.

 

You've got to stop that.

 

Until you stop considering those things you are blinded by them from whats really happening. HE IS making decisions.

 

Great post.

 

I'll also add, stop thinking he's perfect. His sh..it smells like everybody else's. He is selfish, and you know what he is capable of. Lying, cheating, betraying, manipulating, omitting truths, huge ego. Don't fool yourself into thinking he wouldn't lie or do the above to you as well. Don't feel you're more special than his partner/wife. Remember it's ALL about HIM. NOt you, not his wife.

[calliope]

Calliope - I dont think you are ready to listen to this yet, but I am going to tell you anyway. It is something that many OW and some BS come to terms with as they move on from an affair or a marriage broken by infidelity.

 

From your posts you are still of the mind set that you are competing with his wife for him. Pointing out reasons that he should leave her. Comparing you and your relationship to their marriage. Blaming his wife for influencing him, making him unable to decide what is best.

 

You've got to stop that.

 

Until you stop considering those things you are blinded by them from whats really happening. HE IS making decisions.

I know. I guess listening to him for over a year talk about how disconnected he is to her and how "tuned in" to me he is, has clouded a lot of things for me. I truly believed everything he said and now reality is biting me back.

 

Months ago after I had ended it yet again and he starting coming around yet again, I told him that where I was concerned he only had to answer one question - Does he want to be with me? If the answer was yes, we'd figure out the rest together. If the answer was no, he could figure stuff out with whomever or on his own.

 

That night he texted me and said he'd been thinking all day about what I said and he finally knew what he wanted. He asked to meet me the next day & he told me he wanted to be with me. Did I believe him at the time? Sure. Do I believe him now? Maybe he meant it when he said it, but his actions speak louder than words.

[whichwayisup]

That night he texted me and said he'd been thinking all day about what I said and he finally knew what he wanted. He asked to meet me the next day & he told me he wanted to be with me. Did I believe him at the time? Sure. Do I believe him now? Maybe he meant it when he said it, but his actions speak louder than words.

 

And when he's home, the stuff he tells her, I bet he means too. Does she believe him? I bet she did for a while, but is just as tired and fed up as you are, with the run around.

 

He means things in the heat of the moment. No action, just words.

 

You are starting to think outloud now and stuff is sinking in. That's good! Painful I'm sure, but it's a process of realization that has to happen so you can finally gather the strength and see he isn't worth all this aggrevation and pain.

[siuys]

calliope, hugs... sorry to sound negative but the result of your talk did not surprise me at all. i could have written that post (well, the first half anyway). and i've also asked him some of the questions you did. at the end of the day, your guy is torn, confused, doesn't know what he wants, and by making a decision to go home, he HAS already told you what he wants to a large degree. it may not be what he wants ULTIMATELY, but right now, that IS what he wants.

 

LC at work must be hard. I am so glad xMM lives on the other side of the city and that I rarely venture over there. i think NC is the only way personally.

 

At the end of the day, I remind myself that I KNOW what love feels like, and i KNOW when someone wants to move forward with me. And I'm sure you do too.

 

Be strong, take your dignity back, and good luck.

[calliope]

And when he's home, the stuff he tells her, I bet he means too. Does she believe him? I bet she did for a while, but is just as tired and fed up as you are, with the run around.

 

He means things in the heat of the moment. No action, just words.

 

You are starting to think outloud now and stuff is sinking in. That's good! Painful I'm sure, but it's a process of realization that has to happen so you can finally gather the strength and see he isn't worth all this aggrevation and pain.

I am starting to think out loud. And obviously where I am right now, none of these posts are what I want to be reading...but I've read them all, over & over because everything that everyone has said is absolutely right.

 

And I know that it's all coming from people who have been exactly where I am now, so that means a lot too.

[calliope]

calliope, hugs... sorry to sound negative but the result of your talk did not surprise me at all. i could have written that post (well, the first half anyway). and i've also asked him some of the questions you did. at the end of the day, your guy is torn, confused, doesn't know what he wants, and by making a decision to go home, he HAS already told you what he wants to a large degree. it may not be what he wants ULTIMATELY, but right now, that IS what he wants.

 

LC at work must be hard. I am so glad xMM lives on the other side of the city and that I rarely venture over there. i think NC is the only way personally.

 

At the end of the day, I remind myself that I KNOW what love feels like, and i KNOW when someone wants to move forward with me. And I'm sure you do too.

 

Be strong, take your dignity back, and good luck.

Not only do we work together, we live on the same road. I have to drive past his house sometimes, he has to drive past my house every day. I wish I could do NC, it was the only thing that worked for me with my ex 10 yrs ago.

 

Thank you siuys. I know if someone wants to move forward with me too, they'd be doing it...

[hoping2heal]

I know it's not healthy and I honestly don't know my breaking point. Being the kind of person that I am, I truly would've thought it would have been long ago... And people who know me would agree.

 

I'm mystified by the hold this man has on me.....which is why I'm here.

 

This is similiar to men/women who are in abusive relationships. To the outside world - everyone says are you nuts/stupid/utterly insane? Etc. etc etc. Yet, for you the feelings are real and it doesn't seem all bad..not all the time.

 

Being the AP in an affair chips away at your self-esteem just the same as people who get into abusive relationships. The tolerance level floors people. Chalk it up to the nature of the relationship. You are always second to someone else; regardless of how miserable their RS sounds, you are still second. Many times and in your case - you are often being lied too. So you are dealing with a constant problem there. AP relationships are just so unhealthy on so many levels. It really does a lot of damage on a psychological level.

 

You can start out a confident, self assured woman and by the time the affair is well under way, out pops someone who tolerates lie after lie, and doesn't know how to walk away from this stronghold. Fully involved in the throes of a very unhealthy and fully dysfunctional relationship. Chip, chip, chip as your self esteem goes out the door.

 

I think it could do you some good right now to get some IC of your own.