It's Never Over

[greengoddess]

I think my spin on it that came off negative was because I've been given a real good licking from lS posters time and time again telling me to leave it alone. Admitting I didn't is like a head-shy dog that wants to just cowar down in a corner...but truth be told, I'm currently on cloud nine and if I felt like it was a situation I could shout from the rooftops I would.

 

 

and there's the whole problem. it's not real till you can do this.

[jthorne]

To be in a mess of drama...because it is luwb.

Ah, I thought it was lurve.

 

but truth be told, I'm currently on cloud nine and if I felt like it was a situation I could shout from the rooftops I would.

If you are on cloud nine, why are you here on LS reading warning posts about people pooh-pooping on your lurve? Why aren't you enjoying yourself with the MM? Just wondering.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Ah, I thought it was lurve.

 

If you are on cloud nine, why are you here on LS reading warning posts about people pooh-pooping on your lurve? Why aren't you enjoying yourself with the MM? Just wondering.

 

Because some of you do actually understand how I feel and offer support. It isn't pooh pooh. Clearly there are still issues I can use advice and support

In dealing with.

[donnamaybe]

If I had to mirror mine to any it would be Johnny and June based at least what I know from the movie. A loveless marriage, filled with anger and neglect. Nobody was happy...but June made him a better person. She is the reason he turned over a new leaf and wanted to be a better man. His was an obsession with her much like the one an affair fog creates. She tried to pull away many times, she wasn't sure if she was emotionally available, she struggled with her love because of who he was and being married. In the end she gave her all and devoted herself to him and their passion and devotion for eachother despite all odds has been memorialized.

To me this sounds like someone who wants to be the man's saviour. Not a good idea to try to fill that role. It can suck the very life out of you.

 

I hope everything works out for you KTD, one way or another.

[jthorne]

Because some of you do actually understand how I feel and offer support. It isn't pooh pooh. Clearly there are still issues I can use advice and support

In dealing with.

Ah, ok, thanks for answering. I was just wondering because I'd say that the overwhelming response has been that of alarm and disappointment.

[xxoo]

I think my spin on it that came off negative was because I've been given a real good licking from lS posters time and time again telling me to leave it alone. Admitting I didn't is like a head-shy dog that wants to just cowar down in a corner...but truth be told, I'm currently on cloud nine and if I felt like it was a situation I could shout from the rooftops I would.

 

No doubt-- it feels exhilarating at the top. The trouble is, there are a lot of equally low dips on the roller coaster.

 

Your posts seem to acknowledge and be resigned to the lows, because forgoing the highs feels worse than experiencing the lows. This may give some insight into the attraction to drama. Normal, healthy relationships have neither the extreme lows nor the highs. It is more balanced but deeply satisfying for most of us, but certainly not "shout from the rooftops" exhilarating. Do you really need that high to be satisfied?

[someday]

I firmly believe that one can love another without being in their immediate lives. You can love him and not be with him. He can love you and not be with you.

It’s easier for you right now, today, but it will be harder on you in the long run. I think you know this…and I wish you all the best.

[blinded_27]

I hear you all...I've always heard you all, but this time, I have to do what works for me because I'm the only one who has to live this life and feel my emotion. Sound warnings aren't enough anymore, I know this is a lesson I may have to learn the hard way...but I'd like to hope that my fate isn't doomed just because I had to be patient for what I want.

 

Hi Karmas... just wanted to offer some input. I know how you feel, I felt exactly like this about 2 weeks ago. You're right, you do have to do what works for you... and yeah, I know sound warnings aren't enough anymore. It's IMPOSSIBLE to just pick up and leave with all your dignity in-tact when you just aren't ready.

 

When I created a thread about whether or not members here would return to their partners if they had the divorce papers in hand, I was warned by several people here. But I told myself, I'm just going to do what I need to do. I don't care if I get burned, maybe this is a lesson I need to learn the hard way. I'm prepared for this. Little by little, he started slipping, until he was officially "confused" again. So I told myself I would just keep it casual, friends with benefits... think like a guy!!! Did it work? No. He kept slipping from me.

 

Last night I had a very long, tearful conversation with my mom. She really knocked the sense into me. She told me if I don't walk away now, he is going to drop the bomb on me at some point. Whether he keeps it going for a few days, or a year, it will happen if he hasn't made the decision to leave his wife already. And it FINALLY clicked. I realized I had finally had enough of him. I promised her that I would no longer allow him to base this "relationship" on him and his needs, and that I would finally let go and never see him again.

 

And do you know what? That very same night, he really did drop the bomb on me. He told me he had "made his decision" and was going to stay with his wife.

 

In a way, I wish I had walked away earlier. It would have made things a lot easier on me. I thought I was prepared for this if it were to ever happen, but turns out I wasn't. The reason I am writing all of this is not to vent for myself, but to just make you aware that this could possibly happen to you too. You seemed to be doing really well, I believe I saw that you had been seeing someone new recently? But I see myself in you so much... just the way you write, I can tell how you're feeling. I know the feeling of "well ***** I'm on cloud 9, as long as I have this, I think I'll be okay". But now i see I'd rather have a few months of hurt and pain than possibly years of the agony he will put you through. Try not to lie to yourself anymore, Karma, you know deep down it hurts, and it will hurt 100x more when he decides he's finally had enough of you... end it on a high note if you can, where you're in control. I had several opportunities to do just that. Be the one to walk away with my pride. But I gave those opportunities up because I kept thinking EXACTLY like you did. Just try not to let it happen to you, even though (and believe me, I know) it seems like it won't.

[KarmasTestDummy]

I firmly believe that one can love another without being in their immediate lives. You can love him and not be with him. He can love you and not be with you.

It’s easier for you right now, today, but it will be harder on you in the long run. I think you know this…and I wish you all the best.

 

I know this much is true. I have been in long term long distance relationships, one which resulted in my marriage. Emotional needs can be met even when a person is not readily available to you 24 hours a day.

[Fieldsofgold]

I can't do it another minute. No sooner had I posted my last update that he had maintained NC, did he contact me, after at least 2 weeks. The very second i'm in an emotional state thinking about him again does he always seem to be going through the same thing. I have tried, and tried, and triiiiiieeeedddd....but allowing myself to love him is the path of least resistance. I am ready to accept my role as the other woman, battle wounds, guilt, trust, it is all a part of me now because the only thing harder than being with him is being away from him.

 

I'm wondering if this could be a product of traumatic bonding? I've been working with a lot of studies at work, and thought of this thread. Just wondering . . . and wanting the very best for you.

[jennie-jennie]

No doubt-- it feels exhilarating at the top. The trouble is, there are a lot of equally low dips on the roller coaster.

 

Your posts seem to acknowledge and be resigned to the lows, because forgoing the highs feels worse than experiencing the lows. This may give some insight into the attraction to drama. Normal, healthy relationships have neither the extreme lows nor the highs. It is more balanced but deeply satisfying for most of us, but certainly not "shout from the rooftops" exhilarating. Do you really need that high to be satisfied?

 

This is exactly why you need to let go and let God. It is struggling to end the relationship even when your heart tells you to stay which makes for the rollercoaster, and this is true regardless of whether it is the MM or the OW who tries to end the relationship.

 

Making a decision whether you want to be in the relationship or not and standing by that decision turns your relationship into a normal, healthy relationship without the extreme lows, if you decide to stay.

 

The high can still be there depending on how strong the love and attraction between the two of you is. And generally it is very strong, since it needs to weigh up for the negative components of the extramarital relationship.

 

Striving to understand the dynamics of the extramarital relationship and the psychology behind the MM's motivation to stay married in spite of being in love with the OW, and thus joining your heart and your head has in my experience also proved very helpful to get off the rollercoaster, and make the relationship more balanced and enjoyable.

 

So "Let go and let God" means to me that you accept what you can not change (you can not make the MM leave his marriage unless he wants to, you can not make yourself stop loving him), change what you can (make sure you are where you want to be, strive to join your head and your heart), and whether or not you decide to stay with the MM, trust that as long as you are true to yourself you are where you should be today.

[bentnotbroken]

I happen to agree with JJ on this one.....Let go and let God. Since we all know the commandment on adultery and His view on being with a married person....Let God end that mess because there will be no relationship as far as that goes.

[jennie-jennie]

I happen to agree with JJ on this one.....Let go and let God. Since we all know the commandment on adultery and His view on being with a married person....Let God end that mess because there will be no relationship as far as that goes.

 

God is greater than the human mind. He can find meaning where we can not. Likely the extramarital relationship is exactly where the MM and the OW need to be to learn certain lessons of life.

[bentnotbroken]

God is greater than the human mind. He can find meaning where we can not. Likely the extramarital relationship is exactly where the MM and the OW need to be to learn certain lessons of life.

 

 

He will provide it for most of us when we are where he advised us NOT to be.

[donnamaybe]

He will provide it for most of us when we are where he advised us NOT to be.

Oh, yeah. Hard life lessons are nearly ALWAYS learned when we're doing what we shouldn't be doing.

[xxoo]

Making a decision whether you want to be in the relationship or not and standing by that decision turns your relationship into a normal, healthy relationship without the extreme lows, if you decide to stay.

 

You lost me jennie....how does standing by turn the relationship into a healthy, normal one? It is not in one partner's power to create a normal, healthy relationship alone.

[jennie-jennie]

You lost me jennie....how does standing by turn the relationship into a healthy, normal one? It is not in one partner's power to create a normal, healthy relationship alone.

 

Standing by the decision to be in the relationship. This decision is something both participants need to take and stand by.

 

My MM struggled a lot with guilt the first year or so and tried during this time to end our relationship many times. This caused roller coasters every time. When he finally accepted that his wish to have a relationship with me was stronger than any guilt he had and any moral view he had prior held, that was it for the roller coasters.

 

For me my struggle was that my head and my heart were at war. When my head got enough understanding and information about the dynamics of extramarital relationships and the motivation of the MM, my head and heart made peace.

 

Thus having accepted our relationship in spite of its shortcomings it turned into a normal, healthy relationship without roller coasters.

[MorningCoffee]

Oh, yeah. Hard life lessons are nearly ALWAYS learned when we're doing what we shouldn't be doing.

 

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

 

"Good judgment comes from experience.

 

Experience comes from bad judgment."

 

:):):):)

[fooled once]

Ahhh Paul Newman, yes. As did Johnny Cash and June Carter...Brad and Angelina. I know many couples that have resulted from affairs and are happy and trust eachother. Personally I know it's possible and to hear only negativity and doubt from a forum full of women here only because they were burned is not altogether objective.

 

Really KTD? You are now throwing the bitter snarky comments around? Well, FYI - I wasn't "burned" by the MM I had an affair with. Sorry to disappoint you. Really sad that you, like others who disagree with advice and comments given, jump right on "you must be bitter" bandwagon.

 

And FYI, you don't know the people you commented in your post who had affairs/turned relationships. You have no idea what went on. The MOVIE is just that - a MOVIE - doesn't make it factual at all. It is for entertainment - where they guy gets the girl at the end.

 

If you need to believe and hope that the affair will turn into a real relationship, go for it. But please, do not compare yourself / your situation to the hollywood / fantasy relationships. And like someone commented, those who you are emulating didn't hide and sneak around. They chose their mistresses and made it known. They didn't lead on two women - they didn't continue to live their lives in secrecy and lies. And unless you live with the married couple - MM and his wife - you really have no factual knowledge of what she does and doesn't do "for him". Exactly how is HE being a great husband? By having an affair? How come it is so easy for mistresses/OW to throw stones at the wife, and complain about how those wives aren't treating their husbands right yet there is no condemnation for the cheating MM?

 

I hear you all...I've always heard you all, but this time, I have to do what works for me because I'm the only one who has to live this life and feel my emotion. Sound warnings aren't enough anymore, I know this is a lesson I may have to learn the hard way...but I'd like to hope that my fate isn't doomed just because I had to be patient for what I want.

 

Good. You have chosen to be the Happy Other Woman. So don't b*tch and complain when he lets you down. Don't complain that he continues the secrecy and the affair. Don't complain that he stays with his wife. Don't complain that he goes home to his wife every night. Accept it. Accept it and smile. This is what you are choosing to do.

 

Good luck and I hope you continue to protect your children from this MM. Would hate to see what them put through the rollercoaster of emotions when/if the affair ends again.

[jennie-jennie]

Good. You have chosen to be the Happy Other Woman. So don't b*tch and complain when he lets you down. Don't complain that he continues the secrecy and the affair. Don't complain that he stays with his wife. Don't complain that he goes home to his wife every night. Accept it. Accept it and smile. This is what you are choosing to do.

 

I haven't seen Karma declaring herself as a Happy OW. As you can see in my signature there are several kinds of OW you can be.

 

I bitch and complain when my MM lets me down.

I complain that he continues the secrecy.

I complain that he stays with his wife.

I complain that he goes home to his wife every night.

I don't accept it and smile.

 

Just like in any relationship I complain about the parts I don't like. But I don't threaten to leave him because of that. Yet one day I might do just that. But for now I stay, because as a whole our relationship is so worth it.

[fooled once]

This thread isn't about you and my post was to Karma, not you.

[Fieldsofgold]

Karma, I posted extensively on your earlier thread, the one where he made you feel less and less, offered you less and less, then took up with you after a big blowout with his W, then back to her, with even less to offer you.

 

At the time, you recognized what was happening. Now you have rationalized it and convinced yourself to accept it, because leaving him was too hard.

 

I think you are confusing trauma bonding with love.

 

Based on your past experience of a long-term abusive relationship, and what you have gone through already with this guy, I really think you are dealing with, and using, a lot of the following to make yourself able to justify and stay in this R:

 

Trauma bonds – being connected (loyal, helpful, supportive) to people who are dangerous, shaming or exploitive.

Trauma splitting – ignoring traumatic realities by dissociating or splitting off experiences or parts of self

Trauma abstinence – depriving self of things you need or deserve (like a loving, nurturing R where you are treated with respect and your needs are a priority) (my words)

Trauma shame – feeling unworthy and having self-hate because of trauma experience (which might make you willing to accept less in a R)

Trauma pleasure – finding pleasure in the presence of danger, violence, risk or shame

Trauma blocking – a pattern exists to numb, block out or overwhelm feelings that stem from trauma

Trauma repetition – repeating behaviors or situations that parallel early trauma experiences.

 

I think you are confusing trauma bonding for love. I think you are rationalizing, numbing, denying yourself, and generally putting yourself through an emotional ringer to justify staying in this R. because abuse is what you are familiar with.

 

I think you don't realize how soul-destroying this is. I speak from experience.

I told you before, and I will tell you again, I really believe you need IC to get past these damaging and destructive R patterns. I think you will have a really hard time having a healthy relationship with anyone until you deal with your abuse issues.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Fieldsofgold

[KarmasTestDummy]

Really KTD? You are now throwing the bitter snarky comments around? Well, FYI - I wasn't "burned" by the MM I had an affair with. Sorry to disappoint you. Really sad that you, like others who disagree with advice and comments given, jump right on "you must be bitter" bandwagon.

 

And FYI, you don't know the people you commented in your post who had affairs/turned relationships. You have no idea what went on. The MOVIE is just that - a MOVIE - doesn't make it factual at all. It is for entertainment - where they guy gets the girl at the end.

 

If you need to believe and hope that the affair will turn into a real relationship, go for it. But please, do not compare yourself / your situation to the hollywood / fantasy relationships. And like someone commented, those who you are emulating didn't hide and sneak around. They chose their mistresses and made it known. They didn't lead on two women - they didn't continue to live their lives in secrecy and lies. And unless you live with the married couple - MM and his wife - you really have no factual knowledge of what she does and doesn't do "for him". Exactly how is HE being a great husband? By having an affair? How come it is so easy for mistresses/OW to throw stones at the wife, and complain about how those wives aren't treating their husbands right yet there is no condemnation for the cheating MM?

 

 

 

Good. You have chosen to be the Happy Other Woman. So don't b*tch and complain when he lets you down. Don't complain that he continues the secrecy and the affair. Don't complain that he stays with his wife. Don't complain that he goes home to his wife every night. Accept it. Accept it and smile. This is what you are choosing to do.

 

Good luck and I hope you continue to protect your children from this MM. Would hate to see what them put through the rollercoaster of emotions when/if the affair ends again.

 

I have yet to ever call names on LS, let alone say anyone is bitter. I said burned, as in hurt, as in "Fooled Once" as your username might suggest. I would reckon (but only as an assumption) that you too once came here in a state of sorrow, confusion, hurt, or otherwise impactful and dramatic experience in your relationship, as does the majority of other newbies I se posting time and again. Saying that most have been burned is not a bandwagon comment but an analytical observation founded on solid data available throughout these pages.

 

I don't romanticize anything. I'm not taking my relationship for a holywood clip, but was merely answering a question as to which of those couples I felt my r most closely mirrored and even disclaimered that my response was based only on my knowledge through the movie. Didn't say I had or expected the happy ending, roll credits...just that I identified with their turmoil and bond as portrayed.

And so many want to jump on me as if I have years invested and am wasting my life away. We are a relatively new relationship. We only met 6 months ago. I'd like to at bare minimum afford him the time to know if it's right, if it's real love worth leaving for, and how he should proceed to do so if and when he decides to. I'd say none of those "successful" affairs that you said were out in the open so fast didn't take at least 6 months to come to that conclusion. If so I'd be more concerned about what made them make such hasty decisions and likely blame it on ugly d-days where the decision was made for them. I'm young, I'm single, newly divorced, have a fulfilling life, 2 wonderful kids, rewarding career...I think I have a little afforded time to see how this relationship can pan out without having to force someone to committ to me and throw his already established life away for understandable uncertainties.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Karma, I posted extensively on your earlier thread, the one where he made you feel less and less, offered you less and less, then took up with you after a big blowout with his W, then back to her, with even less to offer you.

 

At the time, you recognized what was happening. Now you have rationalized it and convinced yourself to accept it, because leaving him was too hard.

 

I think you are confusing trauma bonding with love.

 

Based on your past experience of a long-term abusive relationship, and what you have gone through already with this guy, I really think you are dealing with, and using, a lot of the following to make yourself able to justify and stay in this R:

 

Trauma bonds – being connected (loyal, helpful, supportive) to people who are dangerous, shaming or exploitive.

Trauma splitting – ignoring traumatic realities by dissociating or splitting off experiences or parts of self

Trauma abstinence – depriving self of things you need or deserve (like a loving, nurturing R where you are treated with respect and your needs are a priority) (my words)

Trauma shame – feeling unworthy and having self-hate because of trauma experience (which might make you willing to accept less in a R)

Trauma pleasure – finding pleasure in the presence of danger, violence, risk or shame

Trauma blocking – a pattern exists to numb, block out or overwhelm feelings that stem from trauma

Trauma repetition – repeating behaviors or situations that parallel early trauma experiences.

 

I think you are confusing trauma bonding for love. I think you are rationalizing, numbing, denying yourself, and generally putting yourself through an emotional ringer to justify staying in this R. because abuse is what you are familiar with.

 

I think you don't realize how soul-destroying this is. I speak from experience.

I told you before, and I will tell you again, I really believe you need IC to get past these damaging and destructive R patterns. I think you will have a really hard time having a healthy relationship with anyone until you deal with your abuse issues.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you that our connection materialized in the beginning out of friendship, understanding, sympathizing, and offering advice around his situation in comparison to my past experiences. It was probably by definition a trauma bond. But a bond formed all the same...and one that I felt strongly and emotionally connected to. It's hard for me to say I can rationalize the other definitions as they relate to us though...other than the repetitive thing about going back. I do have a nurturing need to be there for him built from the love I have and a desire to see him happy.

 

I sought ur advice and did begin ic. I have talked the abuse issue out with my counselor and she actually felt that I had resolved and handled my issues quite well considering I have separated myself successfully from my abuser, have grieved the loss, established forgiveness, and sought external happiness in my friends, future, career, and life in general. I told her about mm and she showed little concern or insinuation that the two were connected. I genuinely believe I am a selfless person by character not experiences. I have sacrificed for the sake of others for as long as I can remember because it brought me pleasure and self gratification.

[awkward]

When you first started posting here there was another new poster as well. It's weird because I thought for sure you were going to leave MM and that she was going to go for a ride on the rollercoaster. Only the opposite happened. She walked and you're on the ride.

 

In those first couple threads I posted a lot of advice for you to leave because at the time I felt that you were leaning that way, and I thought that was the best course for your situation. Also, the issue with the BS being a bad mother, etc. just seemed to be full of drama. I am actually glad to hear that she isn't the horrible mother that MM initially led you to believe.

 

Anyways, I'm pretty sure that you know what you're dealing with when it comes to your relationship with MM. In another post you analyzed your relationship patterns and seem to be clear on that as well. So I wish you well and won't encourage you to leave him. If I see a thread where you are asking for advice I will try help if I can, and I will refrain from posting about ending and NC.