Better match for a low self-esteem person?

[OceanGirl]

As I said many times before, I lack confidence and self-esteem. I wonder what would be a better choice of partner for me. The guy who also is a bit insecure/low on confidence or the very confident guy? For the sake of this question, let's assume that it's one or the other.

 

Traditionally, I have chosen lower confidence men as I felt much more comfortable around them (initially at least). Traditionally - it never lasted.

 

Highly confident men tend to intimidate me so much that I barely say 2 words in their presence. I never gave them a chance because of the high discomfort level on the initial date. I may relax around them in time..but I may not.

 

The last guy who tried to cancel/re-schedule our date is highly confident. When I heard his voice over the phone, I immediately felt even more shy and insecure...and less into him.

 

Thoughts?

[somedude81]

Interesting question.

 

I've heard of how women can have confidences and self-esteem issues, but I really have no idea how it impacts dating.

 

I can describe myself as a low confidence guy, and when trying to decide between a low and a high confidence woman, I can't picture them acting any differently. Meaning, I don't know how to recognize when a woman is confident and when she's not.

 

Why would a confident man make you more insecure?

[EasyHeart]

The classic match for a woman with low self-esteem in a narcissist. Those two make the best dysfunctional couples.

 

A better path might be to work on your self-esteem issues.

[xpaperxcutx]

I think the only reason confident men intimidate us is because they often tend to expect more from other people and expect others to match their personalities. If a man is confident, he would not hesitate to start talking to you on the street despite not knowing you. Caught in such a situation you either respond with a timid " Hi" or you shyly walk away leaving him standing.

 

I admit I tend to get intimidated too, but I also know that I don't necessarily get along with low self-esteemed people either. My ex was really shy and low-esteemed and I often find myself having to take up the role of the man in the relationship.

[DollWelch]

I don't think this pertains to confident or doormat men. This is about you.

 

As somedude81 mentioned in his above post, men can't always recognize if a woman is exuding confidence, hence it's reliant on other characteristics.

 

Barely saying 2 words isn't going to characterize your personality when you're out on a date with a man.

 

You should actively work on your personal traits as a woman. The fact that you seem to be having difficulty with low self esteem men, as well as confident men, only reinforces the idea that it starts with you.

 

This situation is never going to be a "Winning" one, unless you focus on your own self esteem.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way. It's only in it's most sincere outreach.

[phineas]

you are too hot to go after low confidence guys.

They won't believe you are interested in them & be suspicious.

[somedude81]

you are too hot to go after low confidence guys.

They won't believe you are interested in them & be suspicious.

What a terrible thing to say.

 

Please don't try to scare away attractive women from low confidence guys

 

I would love it if a hot girl was into me.

[OrdealByFire]

My girlfriend and I are very different in interests, but almost identical emotionally. Very jealous and insecure. To be honest, I don't think either extreme would be good. Confident person with an insecure person, or confident with confident or insecure with insecure. We've had our share of arguments, but the best you can ever do is really just ... cram it. Whatever you're thinking that's negative, don't say it.

 

"Honesty's the best policy."

 

True, but would you rather not say something that would start a worthless argument, or be happy?

 

I asked myself this question and chose the latter. Sorry for this post being all over the place. I'm listening to music/singing and watching TV.

 

Good luck!

[bootspeed354]

How would you like to achieve:-

 

• Indestructible Self Esteem - Feel good about who you are really value yourself and your gift.
  
• Clarity – So you no longer agonise and struggle over decisions
  
• Confidence - To market and sell your products or services with the same ease you would recommend a great film to a friend.
  
• Increased efficiency and effectiveness – Get more done in less time
  

Can you see the benefit of having:-

 

• Accountability
  
• Sustained focus
  
• Powerful and compelling goal setting
  
• A productive and creative sounding board
  
• Inspiration and support
  
• Accelerated achievement of your goals
  

[carhill]

I wonder what would be a better choice of partner for me. The guy who also is a bit insecure/low on confidence or the very confident guy?

I honestly don't know which would be a better 'choice', but I can tell you, regardless of physicality, the women I've been around who apparently have low self-esteem, whether disclosed directly as you have, or through their behaviors, give me a stomach ache. I can feel it drag on me. I would say I'm somewhere in the middle iin that regard and don't feel such a dynamic would be healthy for myself. I've loved a few like that (the saver/fixer in me) and the outcomes have been uniformly unpleasant.

 

That said, if you are working to improve your confidence and self-esteem to a healthy balance, then having successful (in that regard) people in your life could assist you in your goal. An equivalent would be learning about success in career and business by cultivating relationships with people who are successful in career and business. You can learn more from people who are further along the path to the goal you seek than from those who are behind you or next to you.

 

 

The classic match for a woman with low self-esteem in a narcissist. Those two make the best dysfunctional couples.

 

Yes, one such 'project' threw me over for an apparently narcissistic man, by her own definition. They seemed, at last glance, to be happy, or at least functional in a way which is satisfying to them. So, absent desire for growth and change, perhaps that is a healthy path. She came to find me to be 'annoying', especially in the intimacy department. She wasn't required to have intimacy with a narcissist; only sex.

Edited December 6, 2010 by carhill

[LothianLove]

The old cliche says opposites attract - but from experience, when it comes down to the matter of a highly self-confident extrovert dating a shy introvert with low self esteem, the two would most likely drive each other insane - the extrovert would become exasperated at the introverts lack of confidence and the introvert would probably feel even more insecure along the lines of "I don't deserve such a partner, oh my gosh they'll find someone better".

 

Just as bad - dating an equally shy, low-self-image'd partner - the insecurities would feed off each other and you'd end up agoraphobic.

 

Better to go with someone who has moderately more confidence, so the divide in personality types isn't too wide. That way there's a chance that the lower esteemed individual may rise in confidence dating someone with comparitively high confidence, and the more confident partner won't get exasperated at the less confident person.

[EasyHeart]

Yes, one such 'project' threw me over for an apparently narcissistic man, by her own definition. They seemed, at last glance, to be happy, or at least functional in a way which is satisfying to them. So, absent desire for growth and change, perhaps that is a healthy path. She came to find me to be 'annoying', especially in the intimacy department. She wasn't required to have intimacy with a narcissist; only sex.

When I used "best" in my statement, it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek; the relationship is far from healthy. But I think your observation is spot on: the relationship "works" (in a twisted fashion) because both people are able to avoid the emotional connection they are both unable to create.

 

My main point is this: for people with low self-esteem, the solution is not to find someone who is equally handicapped; the solution is to WORK ON YOURSELF and resolve your self-esteem problems. Dating is the last thing a LSE person should be doing, both for themselves and the for the people they date.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

 

My main point is this: for people with low self-esteem, the solution is not to find someone who is equally handicapped; the solution is to WORK ON YOURSELF and resolve your self-esteem problems. Dating is the last thing a LSE person should be doing, both for themselves and the for the people they date.

 

I agree. Also, if a person is very aware that they have low self-esteem, IMO it's counterproductive to seek a partner who will compliment this characteristic. Low self-esteem in oneself, if recognized, is not really an acceptable comfort zone.

 

People with good self esteem have the most fulfilling relationships and have the most to offer their partner.

 

It's a continuum ... I mean, one does not necessarily have low or high self-esteem; it's a work in progress for most of us.

[Yer_Blues]

My main point is this: for people with low self-esteem, the solution is not to find someone who is equally handicapped; the solution is to WORK ON YOURSELF and resolve your self-esteem problems. Dating is the last thing a LSE person should be doing, both for themselves and the for the people they date.

What if the only solution to "resolve self-esteem problems" is to successfully date? Not necessarily as a source of external validation as a solution for low self-esteem, because I would agree it's quite the opposite. I mean in the sense of developing a meaningful connection with other people being the only way you can reach fulfillment/actualization.

 

What if, in this circle, dating is made almost impossible by a separate yet contributing psychological disorder with physiological implications.

 

What I'm getting at is that I have had the same question as the O.P. and never really seen it answered in a way that would provide a solution.

 

From a personal standpoint, I will never really be content until I have had a significant other of some sort. However, social anxiety disorder in its current manifestation pretty much prevents any chance of me finding anybody. Seeing other people succeed while I am unable to is strong negative feedback that has persisted for many years now that I am somehow lacking or broken in some way, even if I don't always rationally buy into this notion. This naturally has a tendency to take a sizable dump on one's self-esteem.

 

So what is my path of self-improvement you speak of? No amount of positive self-talk is ever going to fill this void, my mind simply rejects it as being illusory. I have been exercising positive thinking and working hard on finding thought processes that are somehow helpful in coping with this, and it helps with the depression that this situation creates, but the anxiety persists.

 

With time and a lot of introverted effort and struggle, I can will away bouts of major depression without medication. But even with medication, I see no solution for social anxiety, which is rooted in low self esteem. Low self-esteem is rooted in neediness and unfulfilled desires over years. These desires are not able to be satisfied without SELF-ESTEEM.

 

What area has to be fixed first to break the circle?

[EasyHeart]

What if the only solution to "resolve self-esteem problems" is to successfully date? Not necessarily as a source of external validation as a solution for low self-esteem, because I would agree it's quite the opposite. I mean in the sense of developing a meaningful connection with other people being the only way you can reach fulfillment/actualization.

 

What if, in this circle, dating is made almost impossible by a separate yet contributing psychological disorder with physiological implications.

 

What I'm getting at is that I have had the same question as the O.P. and never really seen it answered in a way that would provide a solution.

 

From a personal standpoint, I will never really be content until I have had a significant other of some sort. However, social anxiety disorder in its current manifestation pretty much prevents any chance of me finding anybody. Seeing other people succeed while I am unable to is strong negative feedback that has persisted for many years now that I am somehow lacking or broken in some way, even if I don't always rationally buy into this notion. This naturally has a tendency to take a sizable dump on one's self-esteem.

 

So what is my path of self-improvement you speak of? No amount of positive self-talk is ever going to fill this void, my mind simply rejects it as being illusory. I have been exercising positive thinking and working hard on finding thought processes that are somehow helpful in coping with this, and it helps with the depression that this situation creates, but the anxiety persists.

 

With time and a lot of introverted effort and struggle, I can will away bouts of major depression without medication. But even with medication, I see no solution for social anxiety, which is rooted in low self esteem. Low self-esteem is rooted in neediness and unfulfilled desires over years. These desires are not able to be satisfied without SELF-ESTEEM.

 

What area has to be fixed first to break the circle?

I'm not a licensed mental health professional, but it seems to me that if you have an idea of what your problems are, the first step is to educate yourself on your conditions and the treatments for them, and the second step is to get some professional help. One of the common mistakes I think people make (and is certainly reinforced by the bulk of our friends as associates) is that you need to "just get over it" or build yourself up with a bunch of BS pep talks. None of that is going to help.

 

It's also common to confuse self-esteem with self-confidence; they are not the same things. Low self-confidence is an acute condition that occurs when something goes wrong, like losing your job or getting dumped. Getting back your self-confidence usually just takes some time and some positive reinforcement. But low self-esteem occurs because of some emotional trauma early in your life that you probably don't even know about. The result is that your brain gets programmed incorrectly, especially with respect to cause and effect, and the therapy for LSE essentially consists of reprogramming your brain so that it works the way it's supposed to. It's not something you can do on your own, and it's not something that some positive self-talk is going to fix.

 

It's also common for LSE people to think that finding the right relationship is somehow going to "fix" them and it's just a matter of finding that magical person who is going to make everything alright. But it's impossible to find any other person who is going to make up for what's lacking inside of yourself, and the typical pattern is for LSE people to go from partner to partner and always finding some fault in the other person (which is really just a projection of their own self-criticism) and sabotaging the relationship. That's never going to change unless the LSE person deals with the underlying problem in themselves. And the one thing that terrifies LSE people more than anything else is emotional intimacy, because they believe themselves to be flawed and essentially worthless, so things can work okay for a little while because the LSE person is able to pretend to be something they're not. But once the other person (naturally) wants to get closer and get to know the LSE person better, the LSE person is terrified of their partner finding out who they really are, so they either end the relationship or make the other person so miserable that the other person runs away.

 

If you're interested in learning more, good places to start are The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem by Nathaniel Branden and Breaking the Chain of Low Self-Esteem by Marilyn Sorenson.

 

Good luck!!!

[harmfulsweetz]

I'm the same way. I get along very well with those men with low self-esteem because it's easier to relate to, you don't feel like you have too much to prove. They are in the same boat, but the thing is, being a woman with low self-esteem, and dating someone of the same, is kinda asking to always be dragged down in it. How can you hope to work on your issues if you're with someone with the same issues?

 

The guy I was just with, whom I liked for months, intimidated the heck out of me. He was confident, upfront, outgoing, basically the opposite of me. Those guys...I'm oddly attracted too, but I can't say two words around them. I go blank, so it's like I'm not remotely interested, or interesting, my mind just goes on autopilot. A lot of confident people don't recognize when someone is simply shy, has low self-esteem etc, so they may take the quietness, awkwardness as a signal of low interest. I think xpapercutx said it well, they expect others to match their personalities.

 

It would be easier to date a guy with low self-esteem, but I don't think that's the right/best person to date. I think it all boils down to you. I wouldn't choose someone simply because they are somewhat easier or in the same boat, I think confident people often avoid those with low confidence. I imagine it to be rather draining, having to reassure someone all the time.

 

In my last LTR, I actually think I was the more secure one. Even though, I'm very low on confidence, I felt he was dragging me down with him because I was gaining a little. You can't make each other happy, that's one thing I've learned. It was a constant struggle to find a happy place for each of us, using each other to balance our confidence on. It's bound to fall off eventually.

 

I think until we work on ourselves, to get ourselves in a good place confidence wise, we won't be able to find a happy relationship. Because we'll be forever searching for that thing inside of someone else that would fix everything, when it's actually within us.

[harmfulsweetz]

What if the only solution to "resolve self-esteem problems" is to successfully date? Not necessarily as a source of external validation as a solution for low self-esteem, because I would agree it's quite the opposite. I mean in the sense of developing a meaningful connection with other people being the only way you can reach fulfillment/actualization.

 

What if, in this circle, dating is made almost impossible by a separate yet contributing psychological disorder with physiological implications.

 

What I'm getting at is that I have had the same question as the O.P. and never really seen it answered in a way that would provide a solution.

 

From a personal standpoint, I will never really be content until I have had a significant other of some sort. However, social anxiety disorder in its current manifestation pretty much prevents any chance of me finding anybody. Seeing other people succeed while I am unable to is strong negative feedback that has persisted for many years now that I am somehow lacking or broken in some way, even if I don't always rationally buy into this notion. This naturally has a tendency to take a sizable dump on one's self-esteem.

 

So what is my path of self-improvement you speak of? No amount of positive self-talk is ever going to fill this void, my mind simply rejects it as being illusory. I have been exercising positive thinking and working hard on finding thought processes that are somehow helpful in coping with this, and it helps with the depression that this situation creates, but the anxiety persists.

 

With time and a lot of introverted effort and struggle, I can will away bouts of major depression without medication. But even with medication, I see no solution for social anxiety, which is rooted in low self esteem. Low self-esteem is rooted in neediness and unfulfilled desires over years. These desires are not able to be satisfied without SELF-ESTEEM.

 

What area has to be fixed first to break the circle?

 

I can fully relate to this. I often feel like a recluse almost, I'm that scared to actually circulate and go out with people. I don't think that's the issue, that's the symptom. What we have is far deeper than that, and mending that by going out all the time, dating etc, isn't mending it at all. You'll come back and still be you. Of course, we should all face our fears/insecurities head-on, but we have to identify the root cause of it.

 

I think mine stems from childhood, I was always shy, awkward socially, quiet, and I think the fact I wasn't forced out of it, made me somewhat worse. I was able to avoid the uncomfortable, awkward, scary situations everyone else tackled so easily and so well. From an early age, I do wish my symptoms had been recognized rather quicker, and dealt with. It's harder to break a cycle you've been spinning for so long. It's a nasty habit.

 

As I grew up a little, into my late teens, I developed a reasonable amount of confidence, but this was heavily reliant on external validation. I was suddenly blooming, being noticed by men, the buzz and the rush I got from that was alarming, and I quickly became hooked. Then a series of bad decisions in men, and here I am. I relied so heavily on others for my confidence, thinking it was fixed, hurrah hurrah, miracle cure, and it wasn't. It was papered over, brushed away for the time being, but it soon resurfaced.

 

The main thing I've noticed is that unless you actively change thought patterns, etc you can't successfully select anyone to date.I think the main thing we all (those with LSE) have to do is to be able to see ourselves and our situation clearly. You have to identify the cause, not just the symptoms.

[Yer_Blues]

I'm not a licensed mental health professional, but it seems to me that if you have an idea of what your problems are, the first step is to educate yourself on your conditions and the treatments for them, and the second step is to get some professional help. One of the common mistakes I think people make (and is certainly reinforced by the bulk of our friends as associates) is that you need to "just get over it" or build yourself up with a bunch of BS pep talks. None of that is going to help.

 

It's also common to confuse self-esteem with self-confidence; they are not the same things. Low self-confidence is an acute condition that occurs when something goes wrong, like losing your job or getting dumped. Getting back your self-confidence usually just takes some time and some positive reinforcement. But low self-esteem occurs because of some emotional trauma early in your life that you probably don't even know about. The result is that your brain gets programmed incorrectly, especially with respect to cause and effect, and the therapy for LSE essentially consists of reprogramming your brain so that it works the way it's supposed to. It's not something you can do on your own, and it's not something that some positive self-talk is going to fix.

 

It's also common for LSE people to think that finding the right relationship is somehow going to "fix" them and it's just a matter of finding that magical person who is going to make everything alright. But it's impossible to find any other person who is going to make up for what's lacking inside of yourself, and the typical pattern is for LSE people to go from partner to partner and always finding some fault in the other person (which is really just a projection of their own self-criticism) and sabotaging the relationship. That's never going to change unless the LSE person deals with the underlying problem in themselves. And the one thing that terrifies LSE people more than anything else is emotional intimacy, because they believe themselves to be flawed and essentially worthless, so things can work okay for a little while because the LSE person is able to pretend to be something they're not. But once the other person (naturally) wants to get closer and get to know the LSE person better, the LSE person is terrified of their partner finding out who they really are, so they either end the relationship or make the other person so miserable that the other person runs away.

 

If you're interested in learning more, good places to start are The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem by Nathaniel Branden and Breaking the Chain of Low Self-Esteem by Marilyn Sorenson.

 

Good luck!!!

Interesting separation of self-confidence and self-esteem, I always traditionally think of them as going hand in hand. If you see yourself positively, shouldn't you be confident in your abilities? Confidence is a combination of self esteem and reinforcement, in my opinion. You may have never even attempted something, be plenty good at other things (achieve success), but still lack self esteem. Therefore, the negative ideas about self worth and ability overcome more conditioned responses that would be expected.

 

Either way, lack of self confidence is definitely what I suffer from more than self esteem. I wish I could not freak out around people I didn't know and have the confidence to simply hold eye contact and positive body language and form words. However, what you say about sabotaging relationships (in my case even interpersonal, not necessarily romantic), projecting perceived negative qualities, and looking for a "savior" are all concepts that are all too familiar to me. I really hope I'm not setting myself up for a letdown by over-idealizing what relationships actually are. Sometimes I believe it's perilous for me to think about it this much without doing it and I'm setting myself up for disappointment.

 

As for professional help, already took that step once and am taking it again this week. I got prescribed an SSRI by a GP but I stopped taking it about a month and a half ago. The anti-anxiety effects were minimal, did not remain consistent, and I have to wonder if the depression I'm just beginning to emerge from isn't somehow aided by withdrawal effects of the drug. I don't like what I have read about how the mechanisms of these drugs are pretty large guesses and the effects don't have the highest rates of persistence after discontinuation of the drug.

 

So I'm going on to the university psychological services center, going to just talk to one of those people. IDK what to do if they refer me for another medication. I wish I could atleast hear options/try a therapy method, especially the CBT that everyone raves about, but I don't think I can afford it. Is there any way to do this for free without professionals if it comes to it?

Edited December 6, 2010 by Yer_Blues

[dispatch3d]

the only person who can fix your self esteem is yourself. Noone else can do it. You can read books to get the information, but the information is probably 10% of the battle (and that's probably giving it too much credit). The other 90% is actually doing something about it, which a ton of people fail at doing (at least you aren't alone! )

[youngskywalker]

Heck I don't know. I would describe myself as a little quiet but high confidence if that makes any sense. I would have no problem dating a low confidence woman because it makes me feel like I'm helping her. When i give her words of love and she responds to it I like that. BUT, you OG would have to be willing to work on it and become more confident. The constant 'I need affirmation' can get really old to a guy.

 

My recommendation is to go with the high confidence men and be willing to open yourself up and work on yourself. Sometimes men like to feel like the hero. Let someone be a hero to you. There are many of us out there.