Why Are A Lot Of Guys So Wimpy?

[Jeff M Stevens]

I hate to talk about my fellow men this way and let me qualify this DOES NOT include every guy in the world. There are a lot of guys that have it together.

 

However, in talking to women and in giving advice to guys, I've noticed a disturbing trend.

 

The quintessential "nice guy" is out there in large numbers and he's getting his behind handed to him in the dating scene because he's too wimpy and too happy to be there.

 

Before I get into my observations, I am NOT suggesting that a guy turn nasty. I always tell guys to treat women with respect, affection and romance but unfortunately they do this to such extremes, so early in the relationship, they end up being doormats.

 

Some things I've heard/seen:

 

*Calling too often and too soon. Blowing up a woman's phone just because she gave you the # or had 1 date with you.

 

*Telling her that you really want a commitment from someone, on date 1.

 

*Giving her a ton of flowers and candy after only knowing her a week or two.

 

*Asking her after a few dates if she'd be his girlfriend.

 

*Telling her how pretty she is and how he can't believe that she is out with him.

 

*Being at her beck and call for errands and other things just because he likes her.

 

Those are REAL examples from things I've encountered. My question is why do some men lack the confidence to just date, have fun and just let things happen? Why can't they see that if they treat a woman with respect and laugh a lot with her that he'll end up getting a relationship with her if she really liked him in the first place?

 

And I will say that a lot of these "nice guys" would have ended up with the girl if they just could have learned to back off a little bit and display a little more backbone.

 

A lot of these "nice guys" just need to learn to chill out and remember that if a girl really likes them, they don't need to kiss up to her as many of them do, to an extreme!

 

I would like your observations on what I said and to tell me why you think so many guys think it is the right play to be wimpy like this. Are these guys brainwashed by movies or talk shows that talk about how women just want a nice, sensitive guy? Are they lacking positive male role models that can teach them that being overly nice and overly wimpy is a way to get your lunch handed to you?

 

It just sure seems like there are a lot of guys out there shooting themselves in the foot for no good reason!

 

I look forward to your opinion.

[JungleLover]

This is the basics when it comes to dating for men but I am guess that a lot of guys still need to have it bludgeoned over their head every now and again.

[tylo]

If you really want to know the answer to your question read the book "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover.

 

Men believe that they have to be nice if they hope to find the love and happieness they desire. Grover explains in detail why.

[musemaj11]

As I said in the other thread, its because their moms taught them to be doormats.

 

If u notice men from macho societies like spanish or middle eastern men, they have no fear of women because they grew up being taught that they r better just because they r males n women r less than them.

[sally4sara]

As I said in the other thread, its because their moms taught them to be doormats.

 

If u notice men from macho societies like spanish or middle eastern men, they have no fear of women because they grew up being taught that they r better just because they r males n women r less than them.

 

You don't have to think you're better than someone to prevent you from putting them on a pedestal. You just have to remember that they are another person who needs to give you reasons to want to be around them.

But if you admire those cultures so much you can always move there. It would be a good way for a man to suddenly get a lot of credit for something he didn't achieve. Being born is no more an achievement than having a bowl movement would be; it just happens.

[Sarah1977]

OP, I know where you're coming from, but I think 'wimpy' is an overly harsh word. The word I'd use is 'intense.'

 

What I've noticed with men is that they tend to want to get too serious, too fast. For example, I've been online dating for about 3 weeks now. This is what I've noticed:

 

1. After date one, guys tend to amp up the amount of emails they send to me. For example, I will check my email and see 3-4 emails from them. LONG emails, too. Full of romantic platitudes where they claim to be thinking about me all the time, etc. I will shoot off a couple of sentences and I don't even get a chance to read the rest of my emails before they reply! I imagine them sitting in front of the computer constantly refreshing the page waiting for my response. After ONE date....it's off putting.

 

2. After date two, guys let me know that they're taking down their profile to 'see where we go.' At this point, I tell them I'm not ready to make that decision and they are all, "Well this is what I plan to do. Take your time."

 

3. Date three and suddenly they are throwing the L word around. To their credit, they are not saying "I love you." Instead, it's more of a hint. Like, "I think I'm falling in love with you." Dude, I've only known you 2 weeks! We know NOTHING of substance about each other! Love? No way!

 

4. Date four equals the 'where are we going?' talk. This is the part where they start coming on too strong. I feel like they're really pushing. "Choose me! Pick me! Love me! Marry me! Have my babies! Me!!!!"

 

I'm too terrified to go on date 5.

 

I'm sorry, but after a mere 2 or 3 weeks of meeting someone, I have NO IDEA if we are compatible long term. And I can't take this sort of pressure from guys who want a decision from me quick, quick, QUICK. It's just too freaking intense. What happened to keeping things light and fun and casual and letting feelings just grow naturally from there? What happened to developing as friends and lovers first? I don't get this from a lot of guys. Instead it's like they see you as somewhat normal, somewhat attractive, and therefore want to settle down with you RIGHT NOW THIS VERY SECOND.

 

It's too intense. It's waaaayyy too much pressure!

[carhill]

Yes, I agree, wimpy is the inappropriate adjective to describe that kind of behavior. Simply put, they're pushing the relationship agenda because they know, from long experience, if they don't, some other man, who perhaps has bit more game or a fatter wallet, will and you'll be gone in short order. I know it's hard for women to understand but, for most men, their perception is that women are single for like ten seconds, and that usually happens while they're still married or with someone else. The spoils of 'victory' go to the most aggressive and assertive male. This is largely hidden from women because it is how men interact with other men. We beat them, subjugate them and take their pile of marbles away from them. Sounds harsh.

 

Based on the OP's bullet list, I guess I never was as wimpy as I thought I was as a young man, rather just made bad choices in who I pursued. When I read lists like that, and I've seen similar ones on LS before, I just go and wonder if there really are men like that. If the ladies say it's so, I guess it is, from their perspective.

 

IMO, the why could be as simple as unbalanced role-modeling. Emulating emotional memories from one's socialization. The same would apply to men who abuse women physically and emotionally. We all get messages of what affection and love and attraction are and process those into our own psyche and behaviors. As an example, my father was a gentle and loving soul who rarely said a harsh word about anyone and treated my mother with kindness and respect, even though his prior wife left him and stole his daughters while he was away at war. That was the role model I followed for the vast majority of my life. It was only when I came to the point of seeing that modern women were nothing like the role model I had for what a woman was that I decided it was time to balance the scales and push back. I think, if I had grown up in a dysfunctional, abusive family, I might have been and be better equipped to deal with the realities of the world. In contrast, compassion, care and love seem wimpy. Perhaps they are. Perhaps the world is FUBAR. Who knows?

 

I've had plenty of 'girls' and can say with some authority that those I picked did 'like' and 'want' that compassion, care and love, but they weren't 'attracted' to it. The common denominator was markedly different socialization. Lesson learned

[musemaj11]

You don't have to think you're better than someone to prevent you from putting them on a pedestal. You just have to remember that they are another person who needs to give you reasons to want to be around them.

But if you admire those cultures so much you can always move there. It would be a good way for a man to suddenly get a lot of credit for something he didn't achieve. Being born is no more an achievement than having a bowl movement would be; it just happens.

U work for the immigration or something? Since u make it sound so easy, I would like To move to spain by next year. Wanna help me with that?

[carhill]

Part of being non-wimpy is being proactive and assertive. Are you a US citizen/resident? If so, get started here.

[sally4sara]

U work for the immigration or something? Since u make it sound so easy, I would like To move to spain by next year. Wanna help me with that?

 

I wanna go there too; Barcelona specifically at first. We almost did move there a few years ago through a job my husband had but the company changed their mind before they even decided who would be going.

Their economy tanked even worse than where we are now in the states. Reported unemployment was 20% the last time I checked.

 

You know, the contacts we made and met from there didn't come off the way you're suggesting. Are you sure you're not thinking of Central and South America? Other than the bullfighter culture (which Spain is now trying to distance itself from) I didn't pick up on any gender entitlement; no attitude of superiority out of the men when dealing with women and no innate submissiveness out of the women when dealing with men. The matador fellas we met had a macho swagger to them but hell, they face off against bulls! I had a bit of swagger over my first kill too so I can only imagine it presenting more when its over a bull and not a deer!

Everyone else seemed comparable to the dynamics I experience here in the states. And here in the states you will still find people who rely on stupid reasons including what gender they happened to be born as a venue for looking down on others. Urban Spain a pretty modern place. If you're looking for a leg up as a man, you might want to rethink Spain.

[somedude81]

Why can't they see that if they treat a woman with respect and laugh a lot with her that he'll end up getting a relationship with her if she really liked him in the first place?

 

A lot of these "nice guys" just need to learn to chill out and remember that if a girl really likes them, they don't need to kiss up to her as many of them do, to an extreme!

And if the girl DOESN'T really like the guy, what should he do?

 

Most men don't have women falling all over them.

 

BTW, I don't advocate doing any of the bullet points.

 

But do you have any tips on what guys can do to increase their chances with a girl?

[Woggle]

Because we have nobody that taught us how to be men. You are really starting to see the effect the breakup of the family and the lack of male role models in the home have had on how both genders relate to each other.

[Leandro]

OP, I know where you're coming from, but I think 'wimpy' is an overly harsh word. The word I'd use is 'intense.'

 

What I've noticed with men is that they tend to want to get too serious, too fast. For example, I've been online dating for about 3 weeks now. This is what I've noticed:

 

1. After date one, guys tend to amp up the amount of emails they send to me. For example, I will check my email and see 3-4 emails from them. LONG emails, too. Full of romantic platitudes where they claim to be thinking about me all the time, etc. I will shoot off a couple of sentences and I don't even get a chance to read the rest of my emails before they reply! I imagine them sitting in front of the computer constantly refreshing the page waiting for my response. After ONE date....it's off putting.

 

2. After date two, guys let me know that they're taking down their profile to 'see where we go.' At this point, I tell them I'm not ready to make that decision and they are all, "Well this is what I plan to do. Take your time."

 

3. Date three and suddenly they are throwing the L word around. To their credit, they are not saying "I love you." Instead, it's more of a hint. Like, "I think I'm falling in love with you." Dude, I've only known you 2 weeks! We know NOTHING of substance about each other! Love? No way!

 

4. Date four equals the 'where are we going?' talk. This is the part where they start coming on too strong. I feel like they're really pushing. "Choose me! Pick me! Love me! Marry me! Have my babies! Me!!!!"

 

I'm too terrified to go on date 5.

 

I'm sorry, but after a mere 2 or 3 weeks of meeting someone, I have NO IDEA if we are compatible long term. And I can't take this sort of pressure from guys who want a decision from me quick, quick, QUICK. It's just too freaking intense. What happened to keeping things light and fun and casual and letting feelings just grow naturally from there? What happened to developing as friends and lovers first? I don't get this from a lot of guys. Instead it's like they see you as somewhat normal, somewhat attractive, and therefore want to settle down with you RIGHT NOW THIS VERY SECOND.

 

It's too intense. It's waaaayyy too much pressure!

I'm going to have to save this right here. I've never dated ever, so I should read over this and take some notes for later. Thanks.

[sally4sara]

Because we have nobody that taught us how to be men. You are really starting to see the effect the breakup of the family and the lack of male role models in the home have had on how both genders relate to each other.

 

I don't feel its as much about the effect of single parenting VS duel parenting as it is about the dynamic of either situation.

 

Whether it is a single parent household or a dual parent household, the kid gets screwed up if the parenting style is for crap and the dynamic of the household is detrimental. I know for a fact my son would be a completely different (in a negative way) kid if I'd stayed with his father. So in my case, the single parent household was an improvement over the dual parent one.

 

And remember Woggle, you know this to be true because you did at one point have a dual parent household and it was still an effed up situation. The only reason why the single parent household was so bad was because you ended up with the wrong parent after the split. Can you really say a single parent household where you lived with your dad would not have been an improvement in some measure over the dual parent household you were born into?

[Woggle]

Of course it would have been an improvement though I would have been better off with my uncle who really seemed like the only adult that cared. That being said I know damn well what having a horrible mother figure did to me and I would have been better off with a positive female influence. It works for women as well. I am starting to realize more and more what having no positive male role model does to a woman.

[Ruby Slippers]

As I said in the other thread, its because their moms taught them to be doormats.

Two of my serious boyfriends came from two-parent families. The other two each had an absent father and an overbearing mother.

 

The ones with overbearing mothers were good to me and adoring, thanks to mean mommy, but ultimately, mommy ran the show. The other ones were ultimately... *******s.

 

Finding someone in the middle, just right, is not easy.

[Seamless74]

I dunno i seem to find this behavior everywhere.. I think it really comes down to desperation plain and simple. All of the bullet points mentioned in previous post are off putting and i could see where they cause alarm. It almost seems like to actually win in the dating game it really comes down to who cares the least. ive always found as a man that the system worked better if the female was the one who initiated contact with me more often. I was always bad at returning calls and being clingy. So ive never really had the afore mentioned problems. But I think what Carhill said is right in regard to the fact that what these gentlemen (who already have the cards stacked against them due to the fact its online dating) are concerned that after their initial meet up with you it could be only one of several you have planned that week. So thats why their probably ramping up their efforts when in actuality they should appear more scarce or start working on another project in between their first and second meet ups with you.

 

 

Its really just a matter of choice guys who limit themselves to one single female and put all their eggs in one basket put undo pressure on the whole situation and hence seem to frighten the woman from wanting to pursue things further.

[durkadurka]

As I said in the other thread, its because their moms taught them to be doormats.

 

If u notice men from macho societies like spanish or middle eastern men, they have no fear of women because they grew up being taught that they r better just because they r males n women r less than them.

 

You're kidding right? You mean the same middle eastern societies that subjugate women and stone them?

 

GTFO.

[AD1980]

Those are seem like extreme examples i cant imagine ever doing that even with my insecurities

 

I dont think anyone should be a doormat or lose their dignity but at the same time its human nature that a man like myself who if i finally get a women to date me at the age of 30 might be a little more insecure and cant afford to be as picky when datign someone as opposed to a guy whos had sucess with women all his life and knows if this doesnt work out or if he makes awrong move with this current girl theres tons of girls he can get if this doesnt work out

 

AS i said its not a reason to lose your dignity at all but a guy with tons of options and a guy like me who it takes so much to finally attract one girl are gonna have different mindsets and a feel we have a little more to lose and the stakes are higher not to mess up then the guy who knows tons of women are attracted to him if it doesnt work out

[Jeff M Stevens]

THANKS TO ALL THAT RESPONDED....here are my thoughts

 

*JungleLover

Unfortunately it is more than every now and again with a lot of guys. They just never seem to learn

 

*Tylo

I'll check that book out...thanks

 

*Musemaj11

I agree that our society is rearing men to think they're less but I do not advocate a position where men become dominant. Human history is sadly filled with that kind of "women are 2nd class citizens" thinking and I don't wish us to go back to that at all

 

*Sally4Sara

Good point back to Musemaj11. I agree

 

*Sarah1977

We use the word "wimpy" because it gets guys attention. If you tell a guy he's "intense" it is almost a compliment but no guy likes to be called wimpy. Your other points are well taken and it's a shame they act like that because some of them probably had a real chance but it must seem like an act to you when they're in love after 3 weeks. I know you are probably thinking "how the hell do you even know me enough to be in love with me?"

 

We teach guys: Keep it light, keep it funny, no heavy subjects, no putdowns and wait at least 10 dates before deciding if it is to be serious and let the woman bring up the serious stuff....because only she knows when she's ready

 

*Carhill

I have to disagree with your thesis but always appreciate your thoughts

 

If a guy with more game or more money can knock me out of the box, I was never in the box to begin with. Most men don't understand that by staying backed off and mysterious, you intrigue the woman.

Read what Sarah1977 says: "What happened to keeping things light and fun and casual and letting feelings just grow naturally from there? What happened to developing as friends and lovers first? I don't get this from a lot of guys. Instead it's like they see you as somewhat normal, somewhat attractive, and therefore want to settle down with you RIGHT NOW THIS VERY SECOND."

 

If that isn't proof that women (normal women) want a guy to chill out and take his time, then I don't know what is.

 

Women want to get to know us slowly and we interrupt that process by being in their faces too soon.

 

*Somedude81

1. If she doesn't like a guy, she never will. You either pass her physical attraction test or you don't.

 

2. To increase your chances, be in the best physical shape you can be, develop your mind as much as possible, learn to be funny via improv classes, comedy classes, funny books, etc.

 

Dating is like sales. The more you have to offer and the more you ask, the better your chances.

 

Send me a private message and I'll give you links to other resources and they're free

 

*Woggle

Agree!

*Ruby Slippers

Not too wimpy. Not too macho. Just simply a gentleman that can treat you with respect, affection and romance and not be a pushover if you give him crap.

 

....he's the rarest creature on the planet but he does exist

 

*Seamless74

The problem is, if you have a girl that is truly interested in you, you scare her away as she described and if she's not interested in you, then all the pressure in the world won't matter unless she's got super low self-esteem, and then why would you want her anyway?

 

*Durkadurka

Good response

 

*AD1980

In life, you get what you NEGOTIATE and not what you DESERVE. Even if you have NOTHING going on, you have to act like you do. Ever hear the phrase "fake it until you make it?"

 

Wandering into a local car dealership and announcing you'll pay anything for that shiny 2011 on the floor is a recipe for you to shell out much more monthly than you normally would have had to. You'd never do that at a car dealership and you shouldn't do it with women.

 

I understand it's harder for you than say, a major movie star with loads of women around him, but even those guys get divorced and are lonely.

 

The bottom line is for YOU to realize that YOU have something to offer and YOU aren't going to SETTLE. The only way to ensure that you don't get run over in a relationship is for the terms to be more equal.

 

Even if you haven't had a date all year, you have to remember that you will treat a woman nicely and she's just as lucky to be around you as you are to be around her.

 

All you do with pressure is scare them off and as I said to another poster, pressure doesn't make a damn bit of difference if she's not interested anyway.

 

Good luck

[nsearch4u]

awesome read.....

[AD1980]

THANKS TO ALL THAT RESPONDED....here are my thoughts

 

*JungleLover

Unfortunately it is more than every now and again with a lot of guys. They just never seem to learn

 

*Tylo

I'll check that book out...thanks

 

*Musemaj11

I agree that our society is rearing men to think they're less but I do not advocate a position where men become dominant. Human history is sadly filled with that kind of "women are 2nd class citizens" thinking and I don't wish us to go back to that at all

 

*Sally4Sara

Good point back to Musemaj11. I agree

 

*Sarah1977

We use the word "wimpy" because it gets guys attention. If you tell a guy he's "intense" it is almost a compliment but no guy likes to be called wimpy. Your other points are well taken and it's a shame they act like that because some of them probably had a real chance but it must seem like an act to you when they're in love after 3 weeks. I know you are probably thinking "how the hell do you even know me enough to be in love with me?"

 

We teach guys: Keep it light, keep it funny, no heavy subjects, no putdowns and wait at least 10 dates before deciding if it is to be serious and let the woman bring up the serious stuff....because only she knows when she's ready

 

*Carhill

I have to disagree with your thesis but always appreciate your thoughts

 

If a guy with more game or more money can knock me out of the box, I was never in the box to begin with. Most men don't understand that by staying backed off and mysterious, you intrigue the woman.

Read what Sarah1977 says: "What happened to keeping things light and fun and casual and letting feelings just grow naturally from there? What happened to developing as friends and lovers first? I don't get this from a lot of guys. Instead it's like they see you as somewhat normal, somewhat attractive, and therefore want to settle down with you RIGHT NOW THIS VERY SECOND."

 

If that isn't proof that women (normal women) want a guy to chill out and take his time, then I don't know what is.

 

Women want to get to know us slowly and we interrupt that process by being in their faces too soon.

 

*Somedude81

1. If she doesn't like a guy, she never will. You either pass her physical attraction test or you don't.

 

2. To increase your chances, be in the best physical shape you can be, develop your mind as much as possible, learn to be funny via improv classes, comedy classes, funny books, etc.

 

Dating is like sales. The more you have to offer and the more you ask, the better your chances.

 

Send me a private message and I'll give you links to other resources and they're free

 

*Woggle

Agree!

*Ruby Slippers

Not too wimpy. Not too macho. Just simply a gentleman that can treat you with respect, affection and romance and not be a pushover if you give him crap.

 

....he's the rarest creature on the planet but he does exist

 

*Seamless74

The problem is, if you have a girl that is truly interested in you, you scare her away as she described and if she's not interested in you, then all the pressure in the world won't matter unless she's got super low self-esteem, and then why would you want her anyway?

 

*Durkadurka

Good response

 

*AD1980

In life, you get what you NEGOTIATE and not what you DESERVE. Even if you have NOTHING going on, you have to act like you do. Ever hear the phrase "fake it until you make it?"

 

Wandering into a local car dealership and announcing you'll pay anything for that shiny 2011 on the floor is a recipe for you to shell out much more monthly than you normally would have had to. You'd never do that at a car dealership and you shouldn't do it with women.

 

I understand it's harder for you than say, a major movie star with loads of women around him, but even those guys get divorced and are lonely.

 

The bottom line is for YOU to realize that YOU have something to offer and YOU aren't going to SETTLE. The only way to ensure that you don't get run over in a relationship is for the terms to be more equal.

 

Even if you haven't had a date all year, you have to remember that you will treat a woman nicely and she's just as lucky to be around you as you are to be around her.

 

All you do with pressure is scare them off and as I said to another poster, pressure doesn't make a damn bit of difference if she's not interested anyway.

 

Good luck

 

Thanks for the advice though i cant even get to that step of a first date

[Jeff M Stevens]

...google this:

 

jeff stevens 54 tips to dating women

 

Free article and should help you...at least maybe take you in a different direction than you're on now

[nsearch4u]

...google this:

 

jeff stevens 54 tips to dating women

 

Free article and should help you...at least maybe take you in a different direction than you're on now

 

wow...really good stuff .....especially for the "guilty as charged"

 

And the thing about it is - when you're 43 and havent had to date in 20 years these things just dont cross your mind......then you're out there trying to reinvent the wheel.....good info...

Edited December 4, 2010 by nsearch4u
just because

[somedude81]

If she doesn't like a guy, she never will. You either pass her physical attraction test or you don't.

Wonderful

 

For whatever reason, I constantly fail womens physical attraction tests. My body's just average and I'm 5'6.

 

So unless I can get women physically attracted to me, I don't have any hope.

 

Got any tips for when women never like you? I did read your 54 tip thing.