September Posted December 2, 2010 Posted December 2, 2010 What if your WS does not show you complete transparency, how do you know if they are being completely transparent and honest? What if the xAP was still making contact and they didn't tell you about it? How do you really know if they are over the A or their xAP? (and not just because they tell you they are) I get the feeling there are a few WS's out there that would rather keep the peace than be completely honest with the BS for fear of opening up a can of worms again. Maybe for some WS's rug sweeping is the easiest thing to do.
silktricks Posted December 2, 2010 Posted December 2, 2010 Know is difficult. Believe due to repeated "tests" is easier - still difficult - but easier . That's what I did. I didn't feel the need to install a key logger or anything like that, but I did check and double check and triple check phone bills, emails accounts, locations, and pretty much anything else I could think of. Transparency is all about them telling you about stuff before you have to ask, IMO. If, for example, they tell you "she called" and THEN you find out by other means - that's good. If, however, they know you know, and then tell you - well... not quite so good . The how do you know they are over the AP is probably the easiest. It's definitely not words. It's actions, it's attitudes, it's changes in their day-to-day behavior that lasts not weeks or months but year after year. (In case you didn't get that - it's not exactly an over-night process.. ). It's them working at making the marriage not just better, but excellent. It's open and honest discussion of past problems - including the affair and what led up to it. It's working on rebuilding the marriage from the ground up - and that, by the way, includes the fBS doing the same thing. There were fundamental problems in the marriage for an affair to occur. Those problems need to be addressed. The fundamental problems usually (but aren't necessarily) brought into the marriage by both parties, so it takes work for both of you.. And of course rug sweeping is easier. It's just that you don't end up with a good marriage that way - possibly a tolerable one - but not a good one.
bentnotbroken Posted December 2, 2010 Posted December 2, 2010 What if your WS does not show you complete transparency, how do you know if they are being completely transparent and honest? What if the xAP was still making contact and they didn't tell you about it? How do you really know if they are over the A or their xAP? (and not just because they tell you they are) I get the feeling there are a few WS's out there that would rather keep the peace than be completely honest with the BS for fear of opening up a can of worms again. Maybe for some WS's rug sweeping is the easiest thing to do. Pretty much the reason why some are WS...easiest thing to do. Nothing survives built on deceit...either by omission or commission.
Author September Posted December 3, 2010 Author Posted December 3, 2010 Know is difficult. Believe due to repeated "tests" is easier - still difficult - but easier . That's what I did. I didn't feel the need to install a key logger or anything like that, but I did check and double check and triple check phone bills, emails accounts, locations, and pretty much anything else I could think of. Completely understandable, I would probably do the same. For my xMM, this is difficult for her to check these things because all of his phone bills don't go to his home so she can't check these. She still has no idea he has/had a secret email account and he will not tell her about it and she has no idea how to use most things internet/computer related. His phone had password lock that she would never know how to get into. Transparency is all about them telling you about stuff before you have to ask, IMO. If, for example, they tell you "she called" and THEN you find out by other means - that's good. If, however, they know you know, and then tell you - well... not quite so good . Nope, nothing there either. He doesn't tell her if there has been any contact from me at all. It's just easier... It's open and honest discussion of past problems - including the affair and what led up to it. It's working on rebuilding the marriage from the ground up - and that, by the way, includes the fBS doing the same thing. There were fundamental problems in the marriage for an affair to occur. Those problems need to be addressed. The fundamental problems usually (but aren't necessarily) brought into the marriage by both parties, so it takes work for both of you.. Again, no. When the A was discovered she told him that she would not accept any responsibility toward what happened. I know he didn't have to go down that path but he did and it's something they have to sort out together. BUT if she isn't willing to look at why it happened and how things can change to improve the marriage from her side also, it's very sad. And of course rug sweeping is easier. It's just that you don't end up with a good marriage that way - possibly a tolerable one - but not a good one. They have one giant rug, I hate to think what's under there.....I know! it's their heads buried in the sand.
silktricks Posted December 3, 2010 Posted December 3, 2010 (edited) It is sad. It's sad when anyone has a chance to improve their relationship and not take advantage of that opportunity. But, in all honesty, it's also sad that you feel the need to examine their relationship. Undoubtedly it's difficult not to do so, as you were a part of his life but (unless I've got you confused with another????) I believe you are no longer. In any case... what's healthy for you is to NOT examine their lives, or their relationship, it's to move forward in your own life. Also, unless you are a fly on their wall, you do not truly know what she said. You only know what he said she said - and what he said may or may not be true - and what he "heard" her say may or may not be accurate. So, you don't really know. You assume, and your assumptions are to her detriment. You may want to examine that rather than examining her... Edited December 3, 2010 by silktricks 1
Author September Posted December 4, 2010 Author Posted December 4, 2010 (edited) It is sad. It's sad when anyone has a chance to improve their relationship and not take advantage of that opportunity. But, in all honesty, it's also sad that you feel the need to examine their relationship. Undoubtedly it's difficult not to do so, as you were a part of his life but (unless I've got you confused with another????) I believe you are no longer. In any case... what's healthy for you is to NOT examine their lives, or their relationship, it's to move forward in your own life. We are all voyeurs isn't that why we come to LS? We want a glimpse of what others have gone through to see if there are similarities in our relationships. You cannot tell me that you have not been here searching for answers like I am and yes, of course I am going to examine and question parts of his life and my life, he will question his and his BS will also question hers, it's only natural to. Over time, that will lessen for all of us. My main motivation for asking this question was to see what was "normal" transparency. What I have seen on here doesn't equate with his life. Curiosity got the better of me hence the reason for asking. What's healthy is that I come here, read, ask questions and try to help myself move on. Why else then would I or others come to this forum if not to seek out some answers? Also, unless you are a fly on their wall, you do not truly know what she said. You only know what he said she said - and what he said may or may not be true - and what he "heard" her say may or may not be accurate. So, you don't really know. You assume, and your assumptions are to her detriment. You may want to examine that rather than examining her... Anyone can assume but I do know what she said. He showed me her texts and I was privy to a lot of their conversations (unknown to her). Anyway, that part is irrelevant. Again, it goes back to the question of, if there are many other BS's out there like her, how do they really know that their (x) WS's ARE being transparent? Edited December 4, 2010 by September spelling
wheelwright Posted December 4, 2010 Posted December 4, 2010 What if your WS does not show you complete transparency, how do you know if they are being completely transparent and honest? What if the xAP was still making contact and they didn't tell you about it? How do you really know if they are over the A or their xAP? (and not just because they tell you they are) I get the feeling there are a few WS's out there that would rather keep the peace than be completely honest with the BS for fear of opening up a can of worms again. Maybe for some WS's rug sweeping is the easiest thing to do. If they are inexplicably happy or excited = contact. If they are distant = contact. If they act like they are sorry for you = contact. But they might do those things anyway. Only intuition can tell you. And then you have denial to deal with... That's why people hate infidelity so much. It messes with your intuition/denial circuits/soul.
Spark1111 Posted December 4, 2010 Posted December 4, 2010 What if your WS does not show you complete transparency, how do you know if they are being completely transparent and honest? What if the xAP was still making contact and they didn't tell you about it? How do you really know if they are over the A or their xAP? (and not just because they tell you they are) I get the feeling there are a few WS's out there that would rather keep the peace than be completely honest with the BS for fear of opening up a can of worms again. Maybe for some WS's rug sweeping is the easiest thing to do. WSs, by their very nature of lying and deceiving to avoid conflict, are among the greatest rug sweepers out there! They minimize the marriage to engage the OW/OM into the affair! They minimize the AP to the BS to re-engage in the marriage! Know completely! Never! One can never know completely about anyone who has exhibited the ability to deceive and lie so succesfully for so long. But the affair dynamic usually pits one woman against the other; the halo had to sit on her head so the devil horns could sit on mind. Or the reverse, depending on the level of confusion involved. When ever there had been renewed contact, I knew immediately because his behavior towards me changed to pre-day: cold, distant, blaming. I just kept throwing him out admonishing him to get her! I could FEEL she was out of the picture. But I also said, if there is accidental contact and you do not tell me, I walk. If there is intentional contact and you do not tell me, I walk. Who wants to live like a jail wardne? Certainly not me! I live in peace. When she did break NC, he told me. Isn't that what restoring trust is all about? Truth? I mean, I too could find old boyfriends via the internet if I were so inclined. It works both ways. Always has. Always will. You have to decide how authentic a relationship you want and COMMIT to it to reap the best results. A man who begs to re-commit to the marriage but continues contact with his OW is truly an idiot! No one is reaping the best result, including himself.
hurtinginTX Posted December 4, 2010 Posted December 4, 2010 coming from someone that happened to. My husband kept contact and lied about it to me when we were trying to work stuff out before I knew about the affair. I confronted him about it. I am not going to let myself get hurt.
Recommended Posts