How can I choose between physical and mental chemistry?

[Sarah1977]

Thanks for the vote of confidence MMe and London! It's an exciting thought that I might actually be able to find BOTH.

[dispatch3d]

I have copy and pasted all of the useful things you have said. You just switched from a woe-is-me to stating some problems you are actually having. I was getting after you for the dichotimy fallacy for that reason. You were assigned the blame to all nice guys and bad guys, and you were a helpless victim. If I didn't include a "problem" you've experienced or some sort of reasoning, it's because I felt you were woe-as-meing (you are still switching between the two, your posts are about half admital of blame and half it's not my fault.)

 

Well, first what I attempted to do was combine our lovemaking styles. Sometimes we'd have HIS kind of sex. And sometimes we'd have MY kind of sex. I thought it was a nice compromise. But the fact is, he HATED my kind of sex. It made him feel uncomfortable and he really truly forced it. It was obvious and it took the enjoyment out of for me, so I quit making him do it. I just had his kind of sex instead and faked like I liked it. But inside? I was rolling my eyes and thinking I'd rather masturbate.

 

This is really good. You attempted to solve your problem yourself. You came up with a strategy and applied it. The strategy was to have your kind of sex one night, and his kind of sex another. This is (again) black and white thinking that you need to get over. Then you "sacrificied" your own sexual fullfillment for the "betterment" of the relationship. Except it probably eventually ended up in your own divorce.

 

Start thinking of non-logical ways you can get guys to do what you want them to. Trust me, every guy wants you to orgasm. That's the whole reason you fake it. Just think of some things to do/say/act in the bedroom that will encourage them (rather than trying to reason with them). Your black/white thinking could be hurting you. I almost went into some conjecture about how, but you'll have to look at this yourself to figure out where it is hurting you. Start thinking of things on a sliding bar, rather than in groups, or at polar ends.

I also attempted the above with a few boyfriends. Same results.

 

Strategy x didn't work, I figured it may be the guys fault, so I tried strategy x on a few different guys. It still didn't work. Conclusion: Strategy x doesn't work. Why not try another strategy? More than one way to kill a cat.

 

So, I went for the guys who were good in bed for awhile. And I TRIED to be interested in them mentally. I think my brain started bleeding a couple of times. In fact, last week, I was with one such guy and we were talking and finally I couldn't take it anymore. I sighed really loudly and he stopped talking and said, "You just want to have sex right now, don't you?

 

I would say don't date these guys. It's probably easier to take control of your own sex life with guys you actually like, than it is to completely change a persons personality.

 

I had 4 serious relationships before I met my husband with lousy sex. And about 5 fling type relationships that were great in bed, but no potential for a long term relationship.

 

I have copied and pasted this because none of this is in terms of what they are doing wrong. You figured out what you like in bed (or really like) from the 5 fling relationships, and what you like outside of bed in the 4 serious relationships. So you just have to combine the two (likely getting the guys who are awful in bed to be better at it).

 

Furthermore, right now I'm casually dating a guy who is totally nice. I just don't feel any kind of spark. We have not slept together, but we have kissed and I feel....nothing...when we kiss.

 

If you can't figure out why or a way to make the sex better break up with him. Experiment with a few things first though to see if you can improve things. This is a pretty good opportunity to improve your sex life with a guy who you aren't that compatible with. Especially since it sounds like you two are on totally different wavelengths.

 

Like I said, I don't like to be petted like I'm a fragile baby bird....and they have ALL done that. It's like guys treat me like I'm glass and if they don't stroke me gently, I will shatter into pieces. Unfortunately, I need a little bit more....pressure?....to actually climax. I used to push guys to touch me harder or do X or try Y. But they would just look at me like I'm crazy! "I don't want to hurt you!" they insist. Gah.

 

Sounds like you want rougher sex. How can you convey to them that you love rough stuff but don't love the gentle romance stuff? You have to do it in a way that doesn't hurt their ego (keep that in mind! ). Again, experiment with different things and see what works. I can't hypothsize what will or won't work, I haven't had sex with any guys (haha!).

 

[Sarah1977]

If I didn't include a "problem" you've experienced or some sort of reasoning, it's because I felt you were woe-as-meing (you are still switching between the two, your posts are about half admital of blame and half it's not my fault.)

 

 

I'm sorry that I came across that way. I totally didn't mean too. I really don't think the situation is anyone's fault completely. I think it's just lousy luck. I'm sorry if I came across as blaming anyone unjustly.

 

With that said, I think some of your advice is very good. You're right that strategy X has failed me too many times to count. I'd like to try another strategy, but I am overly concerned about bruising a guy's ego. When I care about someone, I hate the idea of hurting their feelings. So do you have any suggestions for a strategy Y? Because I honestly can't think of ANYTHING!

[dispatch3d]

I'm sorry that I came across that way. I totally didn't mean too. I really don't think the situation is anyone's fault completely. I think it's just lousy luck. I'm sorry if I came across as blaming anyone unjustly.

 

With that said, I think some of your advice is very good. You're right that strategy X has failed me too many times to count. I'd like to try another strategy, but I am overly concerned about bruising a guy's ego. When I care about someone, I hate the idea of hurting their feelings. So do you have any suggestions for a strategy Y? Because I honestly can't think of ANYTHING!

 

hahaha.

 

Talking during sex, saying things like harder/rougher. Acting like more of a badass in some ways, playfully push them, grab their cocks (ie. be aggressive) etc. You could go watch some hardcore rough-sex porn and see how the women behave in those films. Also go ask questions in the sex forum.

 

You could also think back to the way the aggressive guys acted in the past and try some of what they did. Or you could go to the sex forum, or ask some of your friends about their experiences with wanting it rough+getting it rough.

 

It seems like you have trouble even telling this to people (like it's too personal or something?)? It may be more helpful to get over that aspect as well, I'm really not sure.

 

As far as bruising egos getting in the way, well it's time to bruise some ****ing egos, cause its time to get an orgasm with guys you like! Seriously though, if it first the way you go about it is uncomfortable, who gives a ****. In the end, you could be having great sex with a guy you are really into, and that seems worth it. I fully expect that your first attempts will be slightly off. Every time I've tried something new (like talking to strangers even) it's been that way. God I still remember when I decided I would start talking to cashiers to get better at talking to randoms. She gave me the weirdest and strangest look. Now I think that experience was totally worth it. I wasn't awkward for very long, since I got acclimated to talking to people I don't know based on small commonalities and having conversations about random things that I found entertaining.

[Ruby Slippers]

There's just no total package, that's all. And honestly, at my age, I don't expect there to be. I was just curious as to which I should sacrifice: the physical chemistry or the mental.

I think you're basically right. And this is coming from a woman who has always been very relationship minded, not commitment-phobic at all.

 

Smart, sensitive, sweet guys (great husbands and fathers) might bring the throw-down in bed occasionally, but in my experience, it is NOT consistent, and overall, this is very disappointing.

 

The guys who wow you in bed tend to be less caring, sensitive, intelligent, emotionally expressive, and committed (poor husbands and fathers).

 

I have friends who are married to the sweet guys, but those women don't care that much about sex, so it's great for them. They do their "duty" by having the boring sex, and that's that. If you are a woman who loves sex, as I am, it's harder to do without the fireworks in bed.

 

I have had relationships with two of each kind of guy, and both left me feeling unfulfilled either sexually or emotionally.

 

In the future, I will favor smart and sensitive guys over sexual performers. I want long-term commitment, a family, and all that good stuff. Sure, I want hot sex as often as possible, but I want love, support, and building a shared life and memories more.

 

If I can find both in one partner, great! But I'm much more realistic now, and realize that the odds of that are low.

[dispatch3d]

It seems like a ton of people would benefit from a thread on things women like in bed. Sweet guys have this majorly going against them and it's preventing them from having fullfilling sex lives/a lot of sex. Women don't like it because they have to chose between guys who are good at sex but boring as hell, or vice versa. It'd be very useful to get to the root of the problem. It's likely to be more of a personality thing than anything else (the personality of sensual guys allows them to rock the bedroom but completely hinders their ability to have conversations, and vice versa).

[Sarah1977]

It's likely to be more of a personality thing than anything else (the personality of sensual guys allows them to rock the bedroom but completely hinders their ability to have conversations, and vice versa).

 

 

I think you're right because I have noticed a similar personality in the guys who are great in bed and an equally similar personality in the guys who are....not my cup of tea....in bed. Which personality do you think would be more helpful to talk about?

[dispatch3d]

I think you're right because I have noticed a similar personality in the guys who are great in bed and an equally similar personality in the guys who are....not my cup of tea....in bed. Which personality do you think would be more helpful to talk about?

 

Both probably, since really people should be aiming for a balance (being able to rock the bedroom and having good conversations. Hummm. Not sure. For me probably sensual would be better (since I lean towards the good talker) but for the sensual guys, they would way benefit from talking about being interesting/having **** to talk about.

[Woggle]

I am sorry but I do think that much of it is mental with women. For the most part I am a relationship minded guy but for a brief period after my divorce I went through a player stage and it taught me so many things. I had this one sex buddy who I pretty much treated like a blow up doll and had no respect for and she told me I was the best sex I ever had in her life. If I had gotten any rougher it would have been assault yet she loved it. This is coming from the same guy who was told by his ex that I sucked in bed so I really think that some women have their own version of the madonna/whore complex. I am not proud of that stage in my life but I was just fed up with women at that point.

[Sarah1977]

Both probably, since really people should be aiming for a balance (being able to rock the bedroom and having good conversations. Hummm. Not sure. For me probably sensual would be better (since I lean towards the good talker) but for the sensual guys, they would way benefit from talking about being interesting/having **** to talk about.

 

OK, I think with some smart guys, they try to hide their desire for you. It's like they don't want to come off as pervy or something. They'll say 'you're beautiful,' but they won't ever say 'you're sexy.' They'll avoid looking at certain parts of your body, etc. They always compliment things like your eyes or smile. Safe things.

 

What I've noticed with the more sensual guys is they will level you with a stare. You can tell from their gaze that they want you. This is a big turn on. Every girl like to feel sexy every now and again, right? We can't be pretty-pretty all the time. Also these guys aren't afraid to call you 'hot' or compliment certain parts of your body.

 

The sensual also don't fidget and act nervous before they kiss you. They just grab you and kiss you. A lot of times out of the blue. I've noticed that a lot of really sensual guys also bite my lips or pull my hair when they kiss me.

 

If you kind of murmur, "I'm not sure if this is right..." with a smart guy, he will back off of you like you just set his fingers on fire! If you do that with a sensual guy, he will say something like, "It is right. I want you. Etc, etc." They understand the difference between date rape and a girl who just need a bit of 'convincing.'

 

I can't speak too much to the personality of a sensual guy because they are less about personality. They are more about action. They don't usually try to touch me on an intellectual level...but more on an animalistic level.

 

Does this make sense at all?

[Ruby Slippers]

I really think that some women have their own version of the madonna/whore complex.

Here are some of the sexual qualities of the "nice guys" I've been with:

 

-Polite, passive, waiting for my lead.

-Rarely initiating.

-Embarrassed about their desires and sexuality.

-Erectile issues.

-Lack of endurance.

-Inconsistent.

-Touching me carefully, tentatively.

-Anxious about trying anything new (performance anxiety?).

 

And here are some of the qualities of the sexual performers:

 

-Direct, assertive, take charge.

-Almost always initiating.

-No shame about their desires and sexuality.

-No erectile issues whatsoever.

-Endless endurance, all-night marathons, multiple times a day, fun and different locations.

-Reliably great in bed, consistent.

-Devouring me, grabbing me, totally enveloping me with his body.

-Eager to try new things, not worried about messing up. If things go weird, we laugh it off and revert to something known.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Ruby Slippers

[Sarah1977]

Ruby, agree 100%!!!

 

Have you also noticed that the not-so-sensual guys tend to be a little on the....quick....side? Also they tend to be overly anxious about the size of their penis? Like they want constant reassurance that it's big enough?

[Ruby Slippers]

Ruby, agree 100%!!!

 

Have you also noticed that the not-so-sensual guys tend to be a little on the....quick....side? Also they tend to be overly anxious about the size of their penis? Like they want constant reassurance that it's big enough?

Yes, I did notice a bit of the need for reassurance on size from the two nice guys. And they were the biggest!! They were also the tallest! One of them was 6'4", brilliant, and all my friends drooled over how good-looking he was. Even future boyfriends, if they saw him in pictures, would say, "Wow, he's a really good-looking guy." If he can ever manage to get over his insecurity, he could be a total ladies' man. (His problem was he had a CRAZY, intensely overbearing mother he wouldn't stand up to.)

 

And yes, with the nice guys, it's usually over way too soon, and it's not frequent enough.

 

With a sexually in-charge guy, time just melts away. It might last half an hour, all night, or the whole weekend. It lasts as long as it takes to be amazing.

 

And then before you know it, he's back after you again for more.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Ruby Slippers

[Sarah1977]

Yes, I did notice a bit of the need for reassurance on size from the two nice guys. And they were the biggest!! They were also the tallest! One of them was 6'4", brilliant, and all my friends drooled over how good-looking he was.

 

I think we dated the same guy. I was like, "Dude the size isn't the issue. It's the fact that you're putting it one painstaking centimeter at a time and asking me "Am I hurting you!?!" every 5 minutes."

 

And then before you know it, he's back after you again for more.

 

Yes!!! It's like they can't keep their hands off of you! I'm sorry, but that's sexy.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I'm sorry that I came across that way. I totally didn't mean too. I really don't think the situation is anyone's fault completely. I think it's just lousy luck. I'm sorry if I came across as blaming anyone unjustly.

With that said, I think some of your advice is very good. You're right that strategy X has failed me too many times to count. I'd like to try another strategy, but I am overly concerned about bruising a guy's ego. When I care about someone, I hate the idea of hurting their feelings. So do you have any suggestions for a strategy Y? Because I honestly can't think of ANYTHING!

 

Bravo on the change of approach by the way. I noticed it too.

 

You can have both. My GF has both. Just make sure you don't suffer a perception problem... or that you don't unintentionally send guys the wrong message in the bedroom.

[Mme. Chaucer]

My own boyfriend is the "nice" type. When we were in the courting stage, he subtly let me know that he was feeling proud of himself for NOT behaving like he was overtly interested in "getting in my pants." He spent a lot of time conversing with me while keeping his hands to himself.

 

For my part, I WANTED him to act more hot to get in my pants. I had a few uncomfortable times of doubting my desirability in his eyes (being elderly as I am made this more painful - I am not the smoking spring chickie I once was, back in the day).

 

When I think about it, I sure understand how difficult it must be men to read women, lots of times. I mean, I have had many experiences in my life where a guy WAS just trying to get in my pants and was behaving towards me in overtly sexual ways. I did not find that gratifying. If they stopped, though, I would have been all, "what's wrong? Don't you find me sexy anymore?" And when I really like and admire a guy and I believe he feels the same about me, I really really WANT him to be anxious to get next to me in the most carnal of ways.

[Woggle]

So if you say no you want a man to keep going and ignore it? Isn't this legally considered rape? Not knowing how to walk this tightrope will get a man thrown in jail.

[Mme. Chaucer]

So if you say no you want a man to keep going and ignore it? Isn't this legally considered rape? Not knowing how to walk this tightrope will get a man thrown in jail.

 

Hell NO! Wherever would you get that idea from what I posted? If I say "no," I want it to be respected.

 

That does not mean that I still don't want to believe that a guy wants me "that way"!

 

I was posting about my feelings about WANTING TO FEEL DESIRED. That's all about me, MY feelings, not what a guy should or should not do. It is probably part of a weakness of mine that I think a lot of women and men too, probably, share. It's about my feelings, not about what a guy is supposed to do about them.

[Woggle]

 

 

If you kind of murmur, "I'm not sure if this is right..." with a smart guy, he will back off of you like you just set his fingers on fire! If you do that with a sensual guy, he will say something like, "It is right. I want you. Etc, etc." They understand the difference between date rape and a girl who just need a bit of 'convincing.'

Does this make sense at all?

 

I am addressing this statement. After having no means no pounded into our head over and over again do you now understand why some men feel like pulling their hair out when it comes to dating?

[daphne]

but I don't like to be stroked like a fragile baby bird while being stared lovingly in the eyes and having the words 'I love you' whispered in my ear over and over again. While I enjoy that treatment OUTSIDE of the bedroom, INSIDE of the bedroom.....I prefer a different kind of chemistry.

 

There's a term for that. I kid I kid. I totally understand. You want a gentleman out of bed and a bad boy in bed. Good luck finding that...

[Flirt]

Or just maybe the world doesn't revolve around the personal experiences of one, or even a few people who are in agreement. The fact that you're willing to stereotype your outlook shows only frustration and bitterness, not an understanding of a greater truth. Keep looking, indeed. That's the only constructive advice anyone can give you.

[dispatch3d]

Woggle, seriously, chill with the accusations.

 

The stuff your mentioning lines up with a ton of dating advice givin by those PUA types women so despise. So I guess that's good.

 

It's somewhat a personality thing. Smart guys have a tendency to think about problems very carefully before coming up with a solution. The sensual guys sound like they just act, and then (if they bother) they may go back and analyze it later. It's kind of unlikely though, they more just act.

 

Apparently the second group of guys make women feel much better. A lot of the stuff you mentioned kind of relates to that. However, in the second group is a ton of life losers. Just doing the first thing that comes to mind isn't a great strategy at solving problems (like some guy makes you mad, you punch his face in. Lol there are better ways to handle things!)

 

Obviously those suggestions help me a lot, and I can see now that when women give advice on dating they probably give advice tailored to the smart guys rather than the sensual guys. It makes sense, the smart guys are acting on your logical (thinking) level, the sensual guys are acting on the primal (animilistic! I like that term) level.

 

So the question is, how can you women inspire your men to act more animilistic? Have you ever been with a smart guy and had him go caveman? It sounds like smart guys have their moments where they do. That's why you say every once in a while a smart guy really throws down - at times - but the majority of the time he's just not with it.

 

fwiw simply telling a guy you love it when guys pull their hair while kissing, will (or at least should) show immediate improvements.

[LittleTiger]

There's a term for that. I kid I kid. I totally understand. You want a gentleman out of bed and a bad boy in bed. Good luck finding that...

 

I've got one of those.........so they definitely exist.

[Sarah1977]

Bravo on the change of approach by the way. I noticed it too.

 

Thanks! I'm trying really hard to be more with my communication here. It's hard because I'm not that experienced with these sorts of forums, but I'll get better. Promise!

 

 

I am addressing this statement. After having no means no pounded into our head over and over again do you now understand why some men feel like pulling their hair out when it comes to dating?

 

 

There is a WORLD of difference between "I'm not sure" as the girl is kissing you and "No, I don't want this. Stop now." No means no. But I'm not sure means I can still swing either way!

[hydorclops]

Here are some of the sexual qualities of the "nice guys" I've been with:

 

-Polite, passive, waiting for my lead.

-Rarely initiating.

-Embarrassed about their desires and sexuality.

-Erectile issues.

-Lack of endurance.

-Inconsistent.

-Touching me carefully, tentatively.

-Anxious about trying anything new (performance anxiety?).

 

And here are some of the qualities of the sexual performers:

 

-Direct, assertive, take charge.

-Almost always initiating.

-No shame about their desires and sexuality.

-No erectile issues whatsoever.

-Endless endurance, all-night marathons, multiple times a day, fun and different locations.

-Reliably great in bed, consistent.

-Devouring me, grabbing me, totally enveloping me with his body.

-Eager to try new things, not worried about messing up. If things go weird, we laugh it off and revert to something known.

I refuse to believe that the first category represents smart men that would make good husbands, and that the second category represents boring stupid men.Women can certainly find smart good men in the second category.

 

Also stop mentioning the baby bird thing. That's really off-putting.