How can I choose between physical and mental chemistry?

[hydorclops]

I was just curious as to which I should sacrifice: the physical chemistry or the mental.

 

It's hard to imagine something more falsely dichotomous. You may not feel understood, but I think you can get what you want. Both connections in one person.

[dispatch3d]

Sarah, look up the term false dichotomy.

 

yes, yes, that to me represents what this is. Especially when women are coming in and saying things like I've met guys who are both.

 

I can't really respond to the success/failure in dating comment. I don't know your experiences and don't think in those terms (which are dichotomies lol!).

[Sarah1977]

yes, yes, that to me represents what this is. Especially when women are coming in and saying things like I've met guys who are both.

 

Yes, because all women are exactly the same and all women want the same things both in and out of the bedroom. So if woman A says that she has met men she has both physical and mental chemistry with, that means I'm just totally full of crap, right?

 

Or maybe your logic is seriously flawed? Maybe it means that what she finds physically and mentally compatible with is different from what *I* feel physically and mentally compatible with? Maybe woman A just has more common and easy to find preferences than I do?

 

And I'M the one using a false dichotomy!

[Cee]

 

There's just no total package, that's all. And honestly, at my age, I don't expect there to be. I was just curious as to which I should sacrifice: the physical chemistry or the mental.

 

All you have to sacrifice is your belief that men who are hot and good in bed are somehow intellectually inferior. Or that men who are kind, loving and smart don't exhibit those skills in a thrilling way in bed.

 

It's your thinking that's at issue, not the men. They are perfectly acceptable as mates.

[hydorclops]

Well, I don't think you're full of crap, just unhappy. I'm hoping to cheer you up some is all. Maybe you'll find what you're hoping for. Many posters in this thread feel the same I think.

[dispatch3d]

I realize you are describing experiences which definitely happened and they are likely true. The belief I guess is what I'm trying to get at.

 

I'm on drama strike right now for a week. I'm concerned this is turning into drama, so I'm going to be very careful about what i say. Drama strike meaning I'm not allowed to participate in any drama.

[Woggle]

To everyone who asked:

 

It is something like this, but I'm afraid I'm not going to go into detail about my sexual preferences because that is just trashy.

 

Again, it has nothing to do with 'bad boys.' In fact, the one guy I had the best sex of my life with was a freaking insurance salesman!

 

Occupation has nothing to do with it. I hate to say this but it sounds like you are creating a man in your head that does not exist as the standard to live up to. I also do sense some female version of the madonna/whore complex in your posts. For some reason some women today just can't see a decent guy is also being sexually attractive.

[Sarah1977]

All you have to sacrifice is your belief that men who are hot and good in bed are somehow intellectually inferior. Or that men who are kind, loving and smart don't exhibit those skills in a thrilling way in bed.

 

It's your thinking that's at issue, not the men. They are perfectly acceptable as mates.

 

 

It's not a "belief." It is my experience. Like I said, I married a smart guy. And I didn't have an orgasm for 10 years.

 

I've also slept with a lot of guys who bored me to tears outside of the bedroom, but rocked my world when our clothes were off.

 

These are just the sorts of guys I find myself with. Both groups are perfectly acceptable mates. But neither are the total package FOR ME. So, I'm just going to have to sacrifice something. But don't we all have to sacrifice SOMETHING?

[Sarah1977]

For some reason some women today just can't see a decent guy is also being sexually attractive.

 

 

For one thing, they are ALL 'decent guys.' Please understand that the guys that I have had satisfying sexual relationships are NOT 'bad' guys. They are perfectly decent! And they don't have super model looks either. (In fact, one of these guys was probably what you'd consider 'ugly.' But boy, he ROCKED it in the bedroom!) They are all just on different mental wavelengths from me.

 

Also, the guys who are what I'm into mentally are NOT ugly or unattractive. They're perfectly attractive and I'm not even going to say they are bad in bed. In fact, if I was a woman who enjoyed a certain type of sex, they would probably be rocking my world in bed. I just don't happen to be that type of woman enjoys that type of sex.

[carhill]

OP, do you think it is your destiny to remain on this path until you are dead? Or, do you think you have *choices*? Control? Your title asks 'how' but your postings of late seem to reinforce your resolve to accept your relationship and attraction style without really examining the question.

 

IMO, your 'sacrifice' will be evolving yourself, changing yourself. It's possible

[Sarah1977]

OP, do you think it is your destiny to remain on this path until you are dead? Or, do you think you have *choices*? Control? Your title asks 'how' but your postings of late seem to reinforce your resolve to accept your relationship and attraction style without really examining the question.

 

IMO, your 'sacrifice' will be evolving yourself, changing yourself. It's possible

 

 

That's what I attempted to do in my marriage.

 

Well, first what I attempted to do was combine our lovemaking styles. Sometimes we'd have HIS kind of sex. And sometimes we'd have MY kind of sex. I thought it was a nice compromise. But the fact is, he HATED my kind of sex. It made him feel uncomfortable and he really truly forced it. It was obvious and it took the enjoyment out of for me, so I quit making him do it. I just had his kind of sex instead and faked like I liked it. But inside? I was rolling my eyes and thinking I'd rather masturbate.

 

I also attempted the above with a few boyfriends. Same results.

 

So, I went for the guys who were good in bed for awhile. And I TRIED to be interested in them mentally. I think my brain started bleeding a couple of times. In fact, last week, I was with one such guy and we were talking and finally I couldn't take it anymore. I sighed really loudly and he stopped talking and said, "You just want to have sex right now, don't you?"

 

And I had to admit, "Well...yeah. It's not that I don't care about your life....but yeah. Just take off your clothes, alright?"

 

I don't know why I'm the way I am. And trust me, I know this is probably my issue. In fact, I think the way I am is what inspires all this overly gentle romantic sex with the smart guy. I am a very small girl. I'm short, size 4, with small features. I LOOK fragile. I also bruise very easily. So it's not surprising to me that some guys feel uncomfortable at the idea of roughing it up a little. I'm sure they just don't want to hurt me.

 

Also, the guys who I'm mentally compatible with also tend to be very romantic men. They just like to be gentle and loving and all that. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. For some reason, though, it just doesn't turn ME on.

 

I KNOW this is my issue. The posters here are the ones blaming the guys. I'm not. And I know I'm going to have to change. Which is what I was asking here: Which part of me should I change? Should I try to change what turns me on mentally or physically?

 

I NEVER said anything like, "How can I find a guy who suits me?" I truly believe my 'total package' doesn't exist. If I stumble on one, I will be THRILLED of course. But so far, it just hasn't happened. So what do I do in the meantime?

[hydorclops]

Because of your experience with your marriage, spend more time with on the physical connections. My two cents.

[Sarah1977]

Because of your experience with your marriage, spend more time with on the physical connections. My two cents.

'

 

Yay! I'm glad you said that. Because I had such a sexually repressed marriage, I was thinking I just wanted to have some really great sex for a change. But I felt guilty about it because I had so little interest in the guy I recently clicked with personally and I don't see a future there at all. But at the same time, I feel like a cat in heat lately. So basically, I'm struggling between physical desire and guilt about just sleeping with someone with whom I'm not interested in a long term relationship.

[carhill]

If you were to be brutally honest, how long would you say you've been continuously alone in the past ten years?

 

Do you think your current relationship and attraction style is inhibiting the formation of healthy (for you) relationships?

 

I don't know your history well but, if your username indicates age, you're still quite young. Lots of time for introspection and making choices, and learning from mistakes.

 

There is one option to consider. Acceptance that it's possible you will never find a man who suits you. How do you feel about that? Do you think that dearth, lack of a compatible man, dooms you to failure in life in some way? Why or why not?

 

I guess this is one of those times when it's really better to accept advice from someone who has walked a mile in your shoes. I'm not that person. I can sympathize but have no real experience with the dynamic. Hopefully my questions have helped. Good luck

[hydorclops]

Because I had such a sexually repressed marriage...

 

Me too. Boy do I sympathize.

[Sarah1977]

If you were to be brutally honest, how long would you say you've been continuously alone in the past ten years?

 

Two months ago, I got divorced. We were together for 10 years. Before my marriage, after dating someone, I would spent about a month alone to get myself back in order before dating again.

 

Do you think your current relationship and attraction style is inhibiting the formation of healthy (for you) relationships?

 

How do you define 'healthy relationships?' I think all of my relationships were healthy. No physical violence. Got along well. Similar values. No name calling. No cheating. Plenty of respect. Good friends to this day.

 

Just lousy sex. FOR ME. They seemed more than satisfied with the sex. Of course, I hid my dissatisfaction to spare their feelings. I would say that that is the only aspect of the relationship you could possibly describe as unhealthy. I faked a lot of orgasms. A LOT of fake orgasms.

 

Acceptance that it's possible you will never find a man who suits you. How do you feel about that? Do you think that dearth, lack of a compatible man, dooms you to failure in life in some way? Why or why not?

 

I think I feel OK about that. I actually don't mind being alone. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to find that person. But if not, I can settle. Or just stay single. Either way works for me.

 

I guess this is one of those times when it's really better to accept advice from someone who has walked a mile in your shoes. I'm not that person. I can sympathize but have no real experience with the dynamic. Hopefully my questions have helped. Good luck

 

Actually, I appreciate that you are so kind even if you don't feel like you understand. When I started posting here, I thought it would be a nice, supportive place. But the more I hang around, I realize that people get very angry and attacking seemingly out of the blue and other people make a lot of snap judgments that just aren't true. Outside of the bedroom, I guess I can be a bit of a sissy in that this sort of thing just makes me feel sad and ashamed. Like, I'm some sort of delusional freak just because of my sexual preferences or I'm some elitist snob because of my mental preferences. It hurts, because I always try to be a nice person. I guess I'm just not used to be people jumping all over me all the time.

 

But you don't do that and for that I am grateful. It's very comforting to have some people kind of compassionate even if they disagree. And I appreciate your perspective and your ability to say that I'm basically a screw up without being downright cruel and nasty about it. Thank you for trying to help me.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Sarah, I believe that your experiences for taking such a firm stance are extremely limited.

 

I think you are a young woman ... you had a ten year marriage and have only been divorced for two months. Correct me if I'm mistaken; I've gathered this from your posts and just now I have not revisited them.

 

Anyway, your sexual experiences before you married have to be filtered through the perceptions of a very young person.

 

If you had a lot of extramarital sex upon which you are forming your opinions ... well, it makes sense that the "forbidden" and "naughty" aspects of that could be at play in both the men who you were having the sex with, and the way you had that sex.

 

Otherwise, if you are basing your absolute proclamation upon your recent two month experience of being single ... patience! There are a lot of men yet to meet. If you are open, you will probably find the good man who's wild in bed. If you hold desperately onto the idea that this is the final answer to the way things are for you - they probably will stay that way.

[Sarah1977]

I think you are a young woman ... you had a ten year marriage and have only been divorced for two months. Correct me if I'm mistaken; I've gathered this from your posts and just now I have not revisited them.

 

This is true. Outside of the 'young' part. I'm plenty old.

 

If you had a lot of extramarital sex upon which you are forming your opinions ... well, it makes sense that the "forbidden" and "naughty" aspects of that could be at play in both the men who you were having the sex with, and the way you had that sex.

 

I did have a lot of extramarital sex. Can you clarify what you mean here?

[carhill]

Two months ago, I got divorced. We were together for 10 years. Before my marriage, after dating someone, I would spent about a month alone to get myself back in order before dating again.

 

How long were you living separately and alone prior to your divorce being final? As an example, our D was final legally in October 10 and we have been living in separate domiciles since June 09, so I've been living alone for about 17 months now.

 

 

 

How do you define 'healthy relationships?' I think all of my relationships were healthy. No physical violence. Got along well. Similar values. No name calling. No cheating. Plenty of respect. Good friends to this day.

 

Just lousy sex. FOR ME. They seemed more than satisfied with the sex. Of course, I hid my dissatisfaction to spare their feelings. I would say that that is the only aspect of the relationship you could possibly describe as unhealthy. I faked a lot of orgasms. A LOT of fake orgasms.

Do you think lousy sex is healthy? From the content of your posts, I assume not. Yet you were attracted to, fell in love with and apparently married your husband. As an example, my exW and I had lousy emotional intimacy, yet I was attracted to her, fell in love with her and married her. Was lousy emotional intimacy healthy? What was my role in that dynamic, as the pursuer of intimacy? Good questions.

 

 

 

I think I feel OK about that. I actually don't mind being alone. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to find that person. But if not, I can settle. Or just stay single. Either way works for me.

Great. Take a year alone without constant outside validation and work on yourself. I worked on myself in MC prior to getting divorced and remain alone to continue that work. When you're feeling all warm and fuzzy from freaking in the sheets, that homework gets shelved. I test the work by occasionally dating and, if I see signs of the unhealthy past rearing its head, discontinue. The goal is to become a whole and healthy partner, IMO. As each of us is different, so is the timeline for reaching that goal.

 

 

 

Actually, I appreciate that you are so kind even if you don't feel like you understand. When I started posting here, I thought it would be a nice, supportive place. But the more I hang around, I realize that people get very angry and attacking seemingly out of the blue and other people make a lot of snap judgments that just aren't true. Outside of the bedroom, I guess I can be a bit of a sissy in that this sort of thing just makes me feel sad and ashamed. Like, I'm some sort of delusional freak just because of my sexual preferences or I'm some elitist snob because of my mental preferences. It hurts, because I always try to be a nice person. I guess I'm just not used to be people jumping all over me all the time.

 

But you don't do that and for that I am grateful. It's very comforting to have some people kind of compassionate even if they disagree. And I appreciate your perspective and your ability to say that I'm basically a screw up without being downright cruel and nasty about it. Thank you for trying to help me.

You're welcome. I have other sides

 

The journey is about finding what is right and healthy for *you*. Sometimes, outside perspective is helpful; sometimes not. Ultimately, it will be your path to own and walk. My personal advice would be to take your time. When one runs on the path, often important signs are missed; signs portending alternative futures.

 

I recently had a married lady 'come on' to me and she shared some of what you are outlining in your thread about your M, along with her abject desire for sex. It wasn't her beauty which excited me in those encounters, rather it was the intimacy and openness which did. I suggested, after holding her and feeling her tears, that she share these things with her husband and try marital counseling. This is the product of my alone time, even in the vulnerable state of becoming divorced (at that time). My issue has never been the inability to meld physical and mental chemistry into attraction and love, but rather finding an appropriate and compatible partner to do it with, hence why I shared that I really can't understand your perspective. BTW, the lady, my best friend's daughter, is working out things with her H and they seem well. I hope it works out for them, and you too

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm thinking that the forbidden aspects of extramarital sex would add to the intense and "nasty" aspects of the sex ... probably not so much of the sweet and gentle. Also, I am NOT a subscriber of the "bad boy vs. good fella" popular school of thought ... but probably a lot more "bad boys" than civic minded do-gooders are likely to be up for having sex with a married woman, don't you think?

[hydorclops]

unmarried sex, premarital sex, extramarital sex. Miss Communication.

[Sarah1977]

I'm thinking that the forbidden aspects of extramarital sex would add to the intense and "nasty" aspects of the sex ... probably not so much of the sweet and gentle. Also, I am NOT a subscriber of the "bad boy vs. good fella" popular school of thought ... but probably a lot more "bad boys" than civic minded do-gooders are likely to be up for having sex with a married woman, don't you think?

 

Oh God, I'm so stupid. I meant to say I DIDN'T have any extramarital sex. I just realized I posted that I cheated on my husband. I never cheated.

 

What I was talking about was the guys I slept with before I met my husband. I had 4 serious relationships before I met my husband with lousy sex. And about 5 fling type relationships that were great in bed, but no potential for a long term relationship.

 

Furthermore, right now I'm casually dating a guy who is totally nice. I just don't feel any kind of spark. We have not slept together, but we have kissed and I feel....nothing...when we kiss.

 

I also slept with someone. Great in bed, but he bores me to tears.

 

So basically, I'm in the same boat I was in before I was married now.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Oh God, I'm so stupid. I meant to say I DIDN'T have any extramarital sex. I just realized I posted that I cheated on my husband. I never cheated.

 

 

 

So basically, I'm in the same boat I was in before I was married now.

 

Okay! Correction noted.

 

Please realize that you are newly single - you have plenty of time, and if you really really feel that you HAVE to choose between physical and mental chemistry (after spending more time "in the field," as it were) it is likely your perception that needs a tweak. Maybe you have the "virgin/whore" dichotomy going on? Usually that's reserved for the fellas, but I'm sure it can exist in women too.

 

I PROMISE that you can find both in one partner, with areas of compromise, of course.

[Sarah1977]

Maybe you have the "virgin/whore" dichotomy going on? Usually that's reserved for the fellas, but I'm sure it can exist in women too.

 

Nah, I don't think so. Because some of the smart guys I'm totally excited to sleep with.....until I actually sleep with them, that is. It's not my perception of them that bothers me. It's what actually goes down in the bedroom that turns me off. Like I said, I don't like to be petted like I'm a fragile baby bird....and they have ALL done that. It's like guys treat me like I'm glass and if they don't stroke me gently, I will shatter into pieces. Unfortunately, I need a little bit more....pressure?....to actually climax. I used to push guys to touch me harder or do X or try Y. But they would just look at me like I'm crazy! "I don't want to hurt you!" they insist. Gah.

[LondonS]

10 years is a long time, people change, choices change

you have just come out of a Phase of life which was 10 years long. Divorce is a exhausting process which drains people emotionally. I think just step back, relax and Date yourself for a little while.

2 months is a very short time and you,ll meet plenty more men, even the ones you click with both physically and emotionally:D