How smooth should a relationship be?

[Sanman]

So, I was talking to my gf the other day. We've been together for 5 months and the first 4 were great. The last month, we have been fighting on and off. It has been the same issues and I think that we may finally have a handle on them. However, one of the concerns that came up was that my gf felt that a relationship should be smooth and that we have had too man issues too soon. She asked about this because she is fairly inexperienced in relationships (I am her third relationship and the first that was not a friend previously). I feel as if we have cultural differences (she grew up in another country), but that we are still learning about each other and finding a rhythm. I believe that smoothness comes out of familiarity and knowing each other. As we learn how to fight, communicate, get more comfortable with each other, we will get back to being smooth. What do you all think? In smoothness a natural part of the right relationship or the result of investing in and making paying attention to your relationship?

[Anxiety]

I guess it depends if these are really fights or just disagreements. If your yelling and screaming at each other, that isn't a good sign. Everyone has disagreements, but everyone doesn't have fights.

[deebeechrisyo]

She sounds pretty down to earth if she expects no conflicts in the first 5 months. Sounds reasonable to me anyway, I would expect conflicts to stay out of a healthy relationship for the first 6-12 months. What kind of conflicts are you guys having?

[Flirt]

People who fight and at least try to resolve their issues in the process stay together longer. Having arguments means you're both independent and on equal footing in the relationship. Fighting all the time and especially about stupid, trivial stuff might indicate deeper-seeded problems. Hope that clears it up a little.

[Sanman]

It is the same argument/disagreement that we have been trying to work out. She isn't a very positive person and want more positive feelings around her. I am kind of in the middle (I like and complain about things). For example, she got mad at me the other day because I complained about the traffic on the way to her house. She feels I should be thankful about the fact that we have roads and cars to make it possible to see each other. She doesn't want to feel like she is a burden for me. I think traffic has absolutely no value and nothing to do with the fact that I like seeing her and wanted to go her that day.

[deebeechrisyo]

I'd like to elaborate that when I say conflicts, I mean fights. Disagreements are OK and should be present in any relationship. Otherwise you are forcing yourself to agree with every viewpoint she has, putting you on the fast track to doormat kingdom.

[LittleTiger]

I think it depends on the individuals.

 

Arguments and fights are healthy if they lead to resolving your differences and if you both contribute to working things out. In that case I think it's a good thing at the beginning of a relationship.

 

I've been with my partner for just over a year and we went through a very argumentative phase at one point, but it turned out to be really constructive and our relationship is going from stength to strength. We are both prepared to listen and learn and as a result we understand each other better.

 

If you are just fighting 'in circles' and nothing is getting resolved then that's a red flag that maybe things aren't quite as they should be.

[Lakeside_runner]

It is the same argument/disagreement that we have been trying to work out. She isn't a very positive person and want more positive feelings around her. I am kind of in the middle (I like and complain about things). For example, she got mad at me the other day because I complained about the traffic on the way to her house. She feels I should be thankful about the fact that we have roads and cars to make it possible to see each other. She doesn't want to feel like she is a burden for me. I think traffic has absolutely no value and nothing to do with the fact that I like seeing her and wanted to go her that day.

 

So basically you're not allowed to express any negative emotions whatsoever? Does she expect you to communicate like this:

 

"Although I love to see you and I am grateful for the blessing of being able to drive to see you...traffic was a b**ch today."???

[Sanman]

So basically you're not allowed to express any negative emotions whatsoever? Does she expect you to communicate like this:

 

"Although I love to see you and I am grateful for the blessing of being able to drive to see you...traffic was a b**ch today."???

 

Honestly, that is what I feel she is saying. She has said she prefers if I don't complain. The thing is, to me, complaining is just talking about your day, small inconveniences. Of course I want to see her and enjoyed it. I think is it silly to keep saying I am happy to her, her friends, etc every time I am there. That is why I got up and drove there in the first place. I take that as a given. The issue is that she tends to be negative and wants someone who balances that out.

[Lakeside_runner]

Honestly, that is what I feel she is saying. She has said she prefers if I don't complain. The thing is, to me, complaining is just talking about your day, small inconveniences. Of course I want to see her and enjoyed it. I think is it silly to keep saying I am happy to her, her friends, etc every time I am there. That is why I got up and drove there in the first place. I take that as a given. The issue is that she tends to be negative and wants someone who balances that out.

 

That's not complaining. That is life. Complaining is sitting around and wishing for things you can't have or just being obnoxious about everything like service at a restaurant etc.

 

How old is she? She does know that life is life and it has its ups and downs, right?

[Sanman]

She's 27. She is all too aware that life has ups and downs. She has been through and continues to deal with a lot of negative in her life and I think this is her way of trying to compensate for that.

[LittleTiger]

My view is that she has been clear about what kind of a person she wants ie someone who 'doesn't sweat the small stuff'. If you're not that kind of person then you can choose to either become that person or end the relationship based on incompatibility.

 

I can understand where she's coming from to be honest. My parents are both what I consider very negative people - constantly going on about everything that's going wrong with society and the world. I accept that they are the way they are but personally I find it draining and quite difficult to deal with.

 

You can't change somebody else, you can only change yourself. If you don't want to change, or if you think she's being unreasonable, then the relationship isn't going to work in the long term.

[Sanman]

My view is that she has been clear about what kind of a person she wants ie someone who 'doesn't sweat the small stuff'. If you're not that kind of person then you can choose to either become that person or end the relationship based on incompatibility.

 

I can understand where she's coming from to be honest. My parents are both what I consider very negative people - constantly going on about everything that's going wrong with society and the world. I accept that they are the way they are but personally I find it draining and quite difficult to deal with.

 

You can't change somebody else, you can only change yourself. If you don't want to change, or if you think she's being unreasonable, then the relationship isn't going to work in the long term.

 

I like your response and your words probably came out better than hers. The thing about it is that I don't consider myself the type of person that sweats the small stuff. I don't go on and on, but I may make an offhand comment about it. Doesn't mean that it has ruined my day. It just means I grew up in NY and we like to bitch.

[zengirl]

Is it possible you are more negative than you think if you "like to bitch"?

 

I understand her desire for positivity. I'll listen to my boyfriend complain if something bad has actually happened, but I don't want to hear him bitch about this and that---I don't complain like that, and I find it very harmful and negative to do so.

 

So, it really depends on how often it happens and how you express yourself, I'd say. The way you describe the traffic situation, she seems to be overreacting, BUT that's from your POV and only with that ONE instance, not counting any other complaints you may have shared. Sometimes it's the straw that breaks the camel's back, as they say. Her desire for gratitude isn't really a terrible thing.

 

As far as how smooth a relationship should be, it really depends on what the arguments are like and what they are about. I don't think any major arguments about each other should crop up in the first 6 months (Maybe a minor adjustment---"Hey, you did this thing, and it bothered me; can we work on that?"----here and there.) But silly little arguments that don't become explosive aren't a big deal. My boyfriend and I argue about silly things now and then, but we don't get angry. Anger is really destructive and generally something that indicates an early relationship will not last.

[Sanman]

As far as the traffic thing, that was the only negative thing I said all morning. I know this because I was being careful as we were just getting over arguing about this. I think she was being a little sensitive and zoning in on the negative. I have noticed that she really analyzes everything I say for meaning.

 

As for smoothness of the relationship, I fee like it isn't a big deal because we got into a bad cycle. We had one fight and she was mad at me. In turn, I became more quiet and negative because I could feel her anger. She got more annoyed at me, etc. Now that we've decided to start with a clean slate, I feel that we break the cycle. I think she is worried it is a sign that we fight a lot.

[xpaperxcutx]

How about instead of learning how to fight the two of you try to work on understanding each other's personality a little more? The way I see it, you're more easier to blurt out things that in essence don't really matter to you while she tends to take things a little too seriously for comfort.

 

Find a middle ground and stick with it.

[LittleTiger]

I like your response and your words probably came out better than hers. The thing about it is that I don't consider myself the type of person that sweats the small stuff. I don't go on and on, but I may make an offhand comment about it. Doesn't mean that it has ruined my day. It just means I grew up in NY and we like to bitch.

 

You may not consider yourself the type of person that sweats the small stuff, but your gf obviously does. This habit you have of 'bitching' or even just commenting may not bother 95% of the population, but it bothers her, and that is what matters.

 

Her perception is that you are negative and she doesn't like it. It upsets her enough that it's causing fights and the fights bother her too. This doesn't have to be a problem for your relationship though. The great thing is that she has told you she doesn't like the way things are so you have the opportunity to do something about it.

 

However, 'doing something about it' does not mean trying to stop her from getting upset about it. If she wants to work on her response, that's her call. As I said before, all you can do is change your behaviour - if you want to. If you do decide to make some changes remember that you're doing it for both of you, and for your relationship, not just for her - otherwise you will resent her for trying to change you. If you don't want to make any changes you have that choice too.

 

She's actually being very helpful giving such a clear indication of the problem. She's concerned enough that this is going to damage your relationship and, in the long term, she's right. So at least one of you has to change. Either you change your bothersome behaviour or she changes her response - but you only have control over one of those options.

 

Personally, I don't think there's anything unhealthy about having really angry fights, even at the beginning of a relationship. It probably just means you both have fiery personalities and like to express yourselves accordingly. It is only unhealthy if you continue to fight about the same things over and over. A healthy argument will result in better understanding which, in my book, makes it a good thing.

[lovelearner]

I think intercultural relationships are esp. difficult since it is hard for either of you to see things from the other person's point of view, sometimes you may think you understand but you really don't haven't being in the same condition and going through the same things while you grew up.

 

It's natural to have differences in a relationship but I really think if you can't or don't know how to solve them by a calm arguement instead of intensive fights, those fights will creat negative feelings and resentments between you too but before you know these negative feelings would outweight the good feelings you had initially and things just wouldn't be the same again, not necessarily you won't have feelings at all for each other any more, just not the same and that's pretty much the time it ends.

 

I had a period of time where I and my partner faught frequently, now we don't fight any more, not at all, but all the feelings are gone, it's just not the same again.

[Sanman]

So, I just had a convo with my gf. The result is that I think we need to break up. She has finals currently and I realize that she is stressed. We has talked about going to a concert for my best friends and a party her friends were having. I asked her if she would rather I drive out to her, grab some takeout for us, have dinner, and then go home as I have work as well. Told me that she actually wasn't that busy and that she simply didn't want to see me because she thought we would get into another conversation about our relationship and would rather be with her friends. This is less than a week after she wanted a "fresh start" from the arguments. She also confided in me that she was angry at me for two other things:

 

1. After driving an hour to her place to meet her and her friends, picking up her friend's husband on the way at the train station, and arriving at a brunch that they had already half finished without us. She got angry at me for pulling two tylenol out of my pocket in front of her injured friend (as I had injured my back two days before and was in pain) because she thought it was rude to make medication in front of someone who was in more pain than me. I should have taken the meds elsewhere. The person who is injured didn't have a problem with this and neither did I. Why is she making it an issue?

 

2. We were supposed to have dinner with my friends and she ended up having to stay late at work and had to miss the dinner. I had parked my care by her place and had to head there anyway. On the way to the train, I picked up flowers for her and then texted to ask her if I could drop by. She told me not to as she wanted to go to sleep. I said 'okay'. When I got to her place to go home get my car about 30-45 min later, I texted her "If you are still up I have flowers to give you, if not sleep well!" and texted her bff and neighbor to ask if I could drop the flowers of with her to give to my gf the next day. Neither responded and I took the flowers home. No big deal to me. She is angry that I texted her the second time about the flowers after she went to bed as it made her feel guilty and feels it is creating more work for her as she would have to put them in water.

 

In the end, I am noticing that she is making no effort to reconcile the with me and is starting to zone in on trivial issues to start fights. I can't stop her from feeling guilty or being negative about these things and I am tired of feeling like I am the only one who is putting in effort to make this work. The result of all my effort I feel like an even bigger failure in the relationship than if I had not tried. I'm done feeling like a failure and being with someone who wants to concentrate on these things rather than trying to make things work.

 

The bottom line becomes this, I am willing to try and change for her because I love her. However, if she cannot accept me as I am and let even these small issues go, then we will never make it. There is no way for me to change enough to make her accept me. I think I need to ask her if she is willing to accept me as I am or let me know if she cannot so that we can both move on with our lives and be happier.

Edited December 5, 2010 by Sanman

[Hopeful30]

It should be smooth. The happiest couples that I know only started having serious fights after many years of a relationship, during which everything was very smooth.

 

Then again, some relationships start off rocky and end up in happily ever after, so you really have to decide for yourself.

[LittleTiger]

I hate to say it Sanman but it seems this relationship is already dead and propably just needs to be buried.

 

From your last post I'd say she is being completely unreasonable and you're not the one who needs to change. Unless you're happy to put up with this kind of behaviour/treatment in the long term, and I'm fairly certain you're not, get out now.

 

She's seems to be beyond the talking stage so, if I were you, I'd move on.

[Sanman]

I hate to say it Sanman but it seems this relationship is already dead and propably just needs to be buried.

 

From your last post I'd say she is being completely unreasonable and you're not the one who needs to change. Unless you're happy to put up with this kind of behaviour/treatment in the long term, and I'm fairly certain you're not, get out now.

 

She's seems to be beyond the talking stage so, if I were you, I'd move on.

 

LittleTiger,

 

I agree with you and thanks for the advice. One of the reasons that I have stayed with her so long (aside from the fact that I love her) is that I have known that she has a fear of abandonment and a need to test people. I wanted to be the one to show her that she could trust people. However, what I am quickly realizing is that I cannot be the person she abuses to get to the stage where she is able to trust people. I need to let go and realize that she needs to fix this on her own before she will be ready for a healthy relationship. The truth is that I have been the one slow to let go the relationship and the only one to fight for it. These fights started because she didn't have the time or inclination to enjoy the fact that I laid out 1100 rose petals, over a dozen candles, champagne, and dessert for her during a "romantic" working weekend. I just had two female friends tell me that they would kill to have the men in their respective lives do the same. The more I think over these recent weeks, I realize that there is nothing I can do to make her change the way she feels about me. Well, I hope she finds the the type of person that she is looking for and I hope that I find happiness myself. Life is too short to put oneself through such misery.

Edited December 5, 2010 by Sanman

[LittleTiger]

Life is too short to put oneself through such misery.

 

Absolutely! A healthy relationship does not involve one person 'rescuing' the other.........and, for the record, I would also kill to have a man shower me with romantic gestures - except I don't have, because I've already got one.

 

Have fun finding a woman who appreciates you.

[daphne]

Sanman,

 

The only thing I see that you might have done wrong is by texting her the second time about the flowers which sounds a little pushy since she already told you no.

 

Otherwise, I feel she's been unreasonable the whole way. People complain about traffic sometimes. People complain about work sometimes. I have yet to meet Polyanna Sunshine 24/7 and to be honest if I did, I'd think they were smoking pot. It's different if you complained too much, but traffic is universal (esp where I live where we complain about it from sunup to sundown.)

 

It sounds like she's taking you for granted and doesn't realize it. She's yanking you around to see how far she can go. You're the scape goat. She doesn't sound happy to begin with. I think you helped her out a little bit by not calling her on her bs though. If someone's being unreasonable, you can't be a doormat and just treat them better (flowers etc). You gotta give them some free air time to realize that you're not putting up with it. The fact that you went out of your way to pick up her friend and she gives you a hard time about taking medication in front of the sick one is just stupid.

 

She's lost the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion. Time you started backing off and figuring out if she's positive enough to keep around.

[Sanman]

She's lost the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion. Time you started backing off and figuring out if she's positive enough to keep around.

 

 

That is something that I have started to figure out. Most people around me consider me to be a positive, fun guy and I have never had trouble making friends or meeting women. After this most recent conversation, I find her to be zoning in on the negative side of things regardless of how positive I am. One thing I didn't mention about our last conversation was that at the beginning of the week I decided that if positive thoughts/feelings were important to her, that we should build on that. I told her that I was going to send her one positive aspect of my day when we talked (as we usually talk/text everyday anyway before we fought) and I would like her to do so as well. She agreed to do this and I thought it be something that would allow us to be more positive and learn more about each other. A week into doing this, during our last conversation, she admitted she was angry at me for doing this as it was "one more thing for her to respond to/deal with." Yet, when I confronted her on the fact that she agreed to do this a week earlier, she admitted that she did not want to do it then and never shared that with me. She said that she doesn't want additional work, but wants things to change/be different. To me, this signals that she wants the relationship, but doesn't want to put in the effort to make that happen. Either way, in a one week period I have been yelled at for being too negative and trying too hard to be positive. I find that fact hilarious.

 

My interpretation of her actions are that she has simply lost interest in the relationship and wants it to be over. It seems like she is using any excuse to push me away. I did all the same things the first 4 months of the relationship and she never fought about them, so why else would they be such an issue now?

Edited December 6, 2010 by Sanman