Would you be okay with your girlfriend getting a drink with an ex?

[hoping2heal]

I am torn right now.

 

Whenever I've been in a relationship, my "sixth sense" intuition has always been correct. When something seems fishy, it usually is.

 

At one point during lunch yesterday, my girlfriend mentioned that she had been contacted by an ex of hers. This ex -- we'll call him Mike -- has only been in one relationship, and it was with my girlfriend. He was also the one that broke it off.

 

So my girlfriend tells me that Mike contacted her and mentioned that he had recently moved into the city, etc etc, asked for good places to get groceries, and that sort of thing. As she was telling this story, she made it sound like she was creeped out and that he was being all nosy and intrusive (such as asking where she was staying, etc). But her demeanor was really fishy about the whole thing.

 

And so while she was in my apartment last night, she went to take a shower -- I took a peek at her facebook mail on the user account I made for her on my computer (she saves the password via cookie). Turns out SHE contacted HIM first after noticing he had moved into the city. None of the "creepiness" implied in my girlfriend's story was present in these mails. And then, partway into the conversation, she says "We should get a drink sometime!" followed by Mike's acceptance of the invitation. He then proceeded to give her times of availability, saying that she had the honor of choosing the location.

 

I'm honestly torn about this whole situation:

 

1. I hate that I couldn't trust her and had to invade her privacy -- it's so wrong of me, and yet when I know something's off, I can't force myself to just intentionally look the other way

2. I hate that my suspicions were sound and that the story she gave me did not seem "right"

3. I hate that she's going to see an ex that hurt her the most during their breakup. Apparently this guy caused her a lot of pain for a very long time when he dumped her.

4. I hate feeling so insecure about this, but I hate that every time I feel suspicious, I turn out to be right.

 

What do you think? Am I overreacting? I don't know what I should be feeling.

 

If Mr.hoping2heal took the time to keep tabs on his ex, and then e-mail her about going for drinks? Well, he would be a Mr. but no longer one of mine.

 

For one, I don't see how it's appropriate behavior to be inviting an ex boyfriend/ex girlfriend out for drinks when you are already in a relationship.

For two, there is obviously feelings there or you wouldn't be bothering to keep tabs on the ex and wouldn't bother to write him and suggest drinks.

 

This is your relationship and you need to do what you feel is right for you but the behavior is shady and I would definately not invest further emotion into someone still holding a torch for their ex, and lying to me.

[threebyfate]

That's what murders me... I can't help but acknowledge the logic trail. I am pretty sure she isn't into the guy, but then that means that when the going gets tough, she'll put herself above being honest with me. It just makes me wonder why she didn't want me knowing the full details. Because they'd make her look bad? If there was nothing to worry about, why was she hiding things from me after having brought up this entire convo to begin with?

 

I can't figure it out.

There was absolutely no reason for her to lie about this. We both know she's a free human being, not shackled to you but wanting to be in a relationship with you. She could have been upfront about it. But she took the time to create a fictional story. This requires some forethought.

 

If she pulls the "oh, I wasn't thinking it through and did it on impulse", ask yourself if she's normally emotionally impulsive where her emotions spike or fall. If not...

[durkadurka]

Had to chime in on this saying, I feel sorry for the poor guy that's dating my ex, she came with me to Vegas this weekend and even though we didn't do anything too intimate, that guy has no clue.

 

Hah.

[USCGAviator]

Dude just go with your gut and stand tall. Respect yourself and you will find a woman that will respect you.

[pandagirl]

Sorry to hear about this Vertex.

 

I recall your girlfriend being a little immature (sorry, don't mean that as an insult) from your posts about her when you first started dating. I really don't know much about her, but what she did sounds like some high school bullcrap. So silly and unnecessary. There is no reason to lie about what she did. I know plenty of couples who occasionally see their ex's, but it's just out in the open and usually the current partner is friends with the ex, too, or just invited along. No big deal.

 

This is just an thought: maybe she doesn't have enough relationship experience or emotional maturity to communicate properly, so her solution is just to avoid it all together. She obvious knew she was doing something wrong, which makes it even worse.

 

The sad thing about you giving her another chance is that YOU'RE selling yourself short. You seem like the type of guy who will never fully regain the trust or affection you had for her prior to this incident, because this sort of act is completely incomprehensible to you. So while you want to be with her, the relationship is going to diminished and not shining at its brightest.

 

Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would probably give someone another chance, because it's really hard for me to walk away from someone I love. But deep down, I would know it was over, because of my disappointment in my partner.

 

She just went through way too much effort to lie and cover her tracks. She should've just come clean. It would have rendered her much more respectable.

Edited December 2, 2010 by pandagirl

[VertexSquared]

I agree... I truly don't know what I can do. I just want to understand why she lied. I feel like if I understand that better, we can fix things. But unless I figure out why she felt the need to cover her tracks so strongly, I am not going to regain trust until I figure out how she thinks.

[Els]

We talked about all this... and it's honestly a mixed issue for me. I can't just get over this in a night. I feel like she really, really hurt me, and I can't believe that she did this. I found it appalling that she'd be capable of lying to me like that. It's a tough call to make. I feel like almost every person I've encountered in my life has been dishonest to me in some major way, and I couldn't help but think "Oh god, not you, too."

 

Perhaps, foolishly, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. It's not just because I am "insecure" or "afraid to be alone" or whatever -- I genuinely love this girl. There are so many good things about the relationship. I just want to know that all those good things are REAL and that our love/trust aren't going to fly out the window at her convenience when the going gets tough.

 

She seemed to understand what I was getting at with all this, and I really hope she sticks to her word this time. I'm so torn.

 

Did she even have an 'explanation' for why she did this? It won't excuse her actions, but at least it'll help you understand more about why this happened and what was going through her mind.

 

Edit: Whoops, sorry, just read your latest post. You are absolutely right. And if she cares about maintaining this R at all, she will sit down with you and do her best to help you understand.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Elswyth

[Pfiend101]

Snooping is still snooping irrespective of whether you feel it was justified. As I stated earlier, her behavior was wrong. But so was his. The fact that you don't see that is too bad.

It wasn't right.... but all of that blows out the window when he finds her making plans to drink with an ex.

[VertexSquared]

I've had a night to stew over this and I still feel really hurt. I can't rationalize why she would have possibly told me the story in the first place, lied about the details, and then lie again when I confronted her.

 

Something isn't right. If she's truly done with this ex, then why lie? That's the main thing that bothers me -- the why. I am trying to put myself in her shoes and I can't find a good reason.

Edited December 2, 2010 by VertexSquared

[VertexSquared]

I asked for more details as to the why. Basically Mike really screwed her up and it took her a long time to get over the damage. He wasn't mean to her, but the relationship made her feel like she wasn't worth anyone's time and it put her in a low place that she never wants to return to. But her curiosity to see what he was up to had nothing to do with having feelings for him, but that in some sick way she wanted to see that he was very miserable and alone -- wishing that he felt all the things he had put her through during the 6 months after their breakup.

 

Still doesn't make sense to me. Why ask to meet up then?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I asked for more details as to the why. Basically Mike really screwed her up and it took her a long time to get over the damage. He wasn't mean to her, but the relationship made her feel like she wasn't worth anyone's time and it put her in a low place that she never wants to return to. But her curiosity to see what he was up to had nothing to do with having feelings for him, but that in some sick way she wanted to see that he was very miserable and alone -- wishing that he felt all the things he had put her through during the 6 months after their breakup.

 

Still doesn't make sense to me. Why ask to meet up then?

 

Just a guess, but probably if Mike is interested enough to get a drink with her and seems to care about how she's doing, there is some ego gratification there for her. She can brag about her boyfriend who is so into her and treats her so well ... not to justify it, I'm just saying ...

[kiss_andmakeup]

she wanted to see that he was very miserable and alone -- wishing that he felt all the things he had put her through during the 6 months after their breakup.

 

I've been following this thread and I have to say , I think the quoted text is one of the most telling things she's said through this whole thing.

 

They broke up in early 2009, so almost 2 years ago?

 

I remember someone saying that "hate" is still a feeling, and I agree. If a person still harbours ANY kind of emotion for an ex other than indifference, whether it's hate, like, or love, then they're not over the ex. In some way, shape, or form, they're still emotionally attached to that person.

 

After two years, her still feeling those "revenge" feelings towards her ex says to me that she's not over him.

 

My ex of 2.5 years ago made repeated (increasingly hostile) attempts to contact me on FB, so I blocked him. I had no interest in "catching up" or "seeing how he was doing."

[flying]

Just a guess, but probably if Mike is interested enough to get a drink with her and seems to care about how she's doing, there is some ego gratification there for her. She can brag about her boyfriend who is so into her and treats her so well ... not to justify it, I'm just saying ...

 

Yes, this was my first thought as well. It's not a justification for lying, Vertex. It's an explanation though. She did make the point of mentioning you, of how much time she spends with you, etc., in those messages to him. There's an aspect of flaunting to that. Yes, it's immature and conflict-avoidant, and both of those are red flags - but it's not the worst-case scenario, either.

[VertexSquared]

I asked her why, at any point, she didn't feel guilty about asking to get drinks with Mike. She said of course she felt guilty, which is why she told me. I argued that she *didn't* tell me and used that fake story as an excuse to think, "I told my boyfriend Mike and I were talking, so now it's out in the open and I don't have to feel guilty about interacting with him behind my boyfriend's back as long as I let him know that we indeed spoke."

 

I am almost certain there are no romantic feelings present anymore, but I don't think she's after pure schadenfreude. It sounds like she's still after some sort of closure... but to what end? There must be some sort of residual effects, otherwise she wouldn't have told me all these BS stories as a way to absolve guilt when it was over something she knew I'd obviously disapprove of. I am not sure what she expected to achieve through this.

[VertexSquared]

She just replied to me, "maybe it was for closure" -- not something she thought thoroughly when she messaged him. It was impulsive. She thinks I am right though -- he really screwed her up and she thought she had closure a while ago, but maybe it wasn't enough. He apparently didn't allow her to be herself -- not in the sense where he straight out told her how to act, but in the sense that she couldn't feel comfortable beind herself. He never liked going into the city of venturing new restaurants, etc, all things that she loved doing but wasn't able to do with him (but she can do these things with me because many of our interests overlap).

 

So when he finally did move to NYC, she felt hurt. It reminded her of all the times he had badmouthed the city and given her crap for it, only to move there on his own accord after the damage had been done. Even after they broke up, she found out at one point that he went to the city almost every weekend, which hurt my girlfriend, too. It was like "she didn't mean enough to him for him to want to do something in the city with her."

[flying]

I

I am almost certain there are no romantic feelings present anymore, but I don't think she's after pure schadenfreude. It sounds like she's still after some sort of closure... but to what end? There must be some sort of residual effects, otherwise she wouldn't have told me all these BS stories as a way to absolve guilt when it was over something she knew I'd obviously disapprove of. I am not sure what she expected to achieve through this.

 

Well, a dumpee's need to feel empowered is pretty common - and yes, it's more complicated than pure schadenfreude. I doubt she had a clear objective, other than to feel better about herself - and that can be dangerous, I'll grant you. This is not a person who is good about talking about her feelings and stating her needs, which can cause a lot of damage.

 

But it does, at least, make some consistent sense. I do think that this fits in logically with other things you've described about her - her extreme eagerness to please, to make sure you're happy, etc. There's codependency there - it sounds like she hasn't regained a sense of self and of self-worth. You certainly are entitled to say that this isn't the sort of thing you want to deal with in a relationship, and you are also certainly within reason to fear that these conflict-avoidant behaviors might rear their heads many times if you stay together. I don't blame you one bit for being wary. I'm just trying to help inject some calm - people are saying this is FUBAR, and I don't think it is. It's difficult, for sure.

[sally4sara]

I wouldn't have a problem with my husband having a drink with an ex unless the ex was actively trying to rekindle something. I don't really mind them still being attracted to him if they can respect that he isn't available. I find him attractive; I'm suppose to be all shocked that someone else would too?

 

We all find other people attractive. We don't always act on it.

 

But if my husband lied about how they started talking again, it would damage my opinion of him, is integrity, how much I believed he valued the relationship, and how much trust I'd extend to him. And meeting for drinks, if it happened at all, would be only if we both went along.

 

But I look at it this way:

If someone could persuade my husband to lie and eventually cheat on me, my husband IS absolutely available. In fact, let me pack his bags and drive him over to their place; he'd be all theirs for as much as that is worth.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, since you have forgiven her and you love her, you are going to have to find a way to put this to rest so you can carry on. I suggest that you and she, as a couple, go out for a drink with Mike with the understanding that this will be the end of her contact with him. That ought to satisfy whatever she is trying to achieve and give some kind of closure to this renewed communication.

 

Do be upfront with her that your trust has been damaged and that future transgressions could destroy your relationship.

[VertexSquared]

I had her cut off FB contact with him after sending him a message saying it wouldn't be a good idea to meet up, so I think meeting up for drinks together wouldn't work at this point... nor would I really want to indulge in something like that.

 

I'm just trying to figure out her feelings so we can better determine how to be more fair to one another in terms of placing value on this relationship. I worry she may not be fully emotionally available for this relationship if she's still feeling some desire to evoke SOME kind of emotional interaction (whether good, bad, masochistic, whatever) with Mike.

Edited December 2, 2010 by VertexSquared

[DustySaltus]

I had her cut off FB contact with him after sending him a message saying it wouldn't be a good idea to meet up, so I think meeting up for drinks together wouldn't work at this point... nor would I really want to indulge in something like that.

 

I'm just trying to figure out her feelings so we can better determine how to be more fair to one another in terms of placing value on this relationship. I worry she may not be fully emotionally available for this relationship if she's still feeling some desire to evoke SOME kind of emotional interaction (whether good, bad, masochistic, whatever) with Mike.

 

Vertex, just caught up with the thread. Sorry about the situation. The fact that she made it seem awkward that he contacted her when it was really the other way around is a HUGE red flag to me. Apparently, she thinks that there's something missing in the relationship and instead of talking to you about it, she's looking somewhere else.

 

Now she's saying that she's looking for "closure"? Again, this is the same person who said that he contacted her....2+2 still equals 4.

 

I agree with others that any other feeling besides indifference is very dangerous here. The main question is whether or not you think you can trust her going forward?

[VertexSquared]

I really want to. I understand her story a lot better now, but to me it still signals that she's not as over it as she thinks she may be. She's not "indifferent" if she was willing to lie to me about meeting up with him. She had SOME desire to go through with this enough to lie to me about it.

[flying]

I really want to. I understand her story a lot better now, but to me it still signals that she's not as over it as she thinks she may be. She's not "indifferent" if she was willing to lie to me about meeting up with him. She had SOME desire to go through with this enough to lie to me about it.

 

Okay, so supposing this is true - she's not as over it as she thinks she may be. Let's just assume for a minute that this is the case.

 

How do you feel about that? Is that a dealbreaker? Do you want out? Is there a scenario in which you'd be able to be OK with this thought? There's no wrong answer, and this is fully your choice.

[VertexSquared]

Okay, so supposing this is true - she's not as over it as she thinks she may be. Let's just assume for a minute that this is the case.

 

How do you feel about that? Is that a dealbreaker? Do you want out? Is there a scenario in which you'd be able to be OK with this thought? There's no wrong answer, and this is fully your choice.

 

It's not a dealbreaker to me necessarily if it's something that can be resolved. But if she's always going to have a soft spot for this guy such that she'll lie to me for it, that's not okay. But I think what she did was an impulsive need for closure as a result of being hurt in the past, and I don't think she at any point intended to actually CHEAT on me.

 

Maybe it's naive of me, but I feel like it's workable. But I am not tolerating this again.

[Crazy Magnet]

I've been following this thread and I have to say , I think the quoted text is one of the most telling things she's said through this whole thing.

 

They broke up in early 2009, so almost 2 years ago?

 

I remember someone saying that "hate" is still a feeling, and I agree. If a person still harbours ANY kind of emotion for an ex other than indifference, whether it's hate, like, or love, then they're not over the ex. In some way, shape, or form, they're still emotionally attached to that person.

 

After two years, her still feeling those "revenge" feelings towards her ex says to me that she's not over him.

 

My ex of 2.5 years ago made repeated (increasingly hostile) attempts to contact me on FB, so I blocked him. I had no interest in "catching up" or "seeing how he was doing."

 

This. An emotional connection can be a negative feeling too. I have been in her shoes and I have dated guys in her shoes. It never ended too well in either of those situations.

 

An ex could contact me tomorrow and I would hit the delete button and go on with life. It happens quite frequently. I'd want to know why he didn't hit delete when she messaged him. And why on earth were they still friends on facebook if he was so awful to her?

 

I'm still disturbed about the way she lied, I'm also disturbed with the fact that she is willing to go out of her way to be nice/bend over backwards for a guy who supposedly hurt her so much. To me that sends up several more red flags.

 

I still agree with TBF. You will kick yourself later for staying in this.

[flying]

It's not a dealbreaker to me necessarily if it's something that can be resolved. But if she's always going to have a soft spot for this guy such that she'll lie to me for it, that's not okay. But I think what she did was an impulsive need for closure as a result of being hurt in the past, and I don't think she at any point intended to actually CHEAT on me.

 

Maybe it's naive of me, but I feel like it's workable. But I am not tolerating this again.

 

What you said in the first paragraph - that is probably how I would see it too, and I think it's eminently fair. And I also suggest that that is a very good topic for discussion with her now - maybe see where that goes and how she responds to that point?