massage my back gently with a chain saw and rub salt in it

[zig]

So folks,

 

Perhaps I need someone to tell me I'm being a complete idiot. Please just be open minded about this. I've been going around in circles with this girl for about 5 weeks. We've been on two dates which I thought went great and have kept in contact through chat, phone calls and texts. She just hasn't been willing to see me and make time for me (I've mentioned this in other threads).

 

Anyway, tonight I cracked. I couldn't take anymore. We were in a text session and I told her I thought she was the sexiest thing I've ever met and wanted to do things to her only found in story books (which is the truth).

 

She replied, wow, thanks, I wasn't expecting that, it almost made me blush ect. We went on to talking and the upshot was she said she'd like to get to know me more and thought we were going to see where things went as friends first. (which I did tell her but hey, things change). I said that's fine but I'd like her to be honest and tell me if this is a "friends first" thing or "just friends". She said she's not ready to make that determination on our relationship before she gets to know me better.

 

Ugh! I know this was a little strait forward on my part but sometimes you have to call the bluff... especially after 5 weeks of going back and forth. A guy can only take so much. Basically she wouldn't give me a strait answer either way. And the problem is on her end because she won't make time to see me and I'm more than willing to see where things go... serious relationship or just friends I'd be happy. I'd just like to know, but she doesn't even have the courage to tell me "just friends". She just leaves me hanging.

 

We were supposed to meet up in chat tonight but so far she hasn't showed. I thought we would talk about it more but maybe there is nothing more to talk about. How is that for a woman who won't be upfront with you? Even after I told her how I felt?

 

So now what do I do? Please don't tell me to launch unless you really mean it and it's what you would do. I like this girl but there is something to be said about keeping ones dignity and sanity. Please help. Do I just keep going with it for awhile, stay friends, and see where it goes or is this girl seriously not into me and doesn't have the heart to tell me or is just not able to make up her mind? Cheers.

[hearttobreak]

Now she knows she's got you by the balls. Bad move showing your cards like that. What is wrong with you? If they are undecided and on the fence with you, I think it's time to bail. You've spent way to much time with this one already. Back off say you're busy. Something's come up, etc. If she really is interested in you, sadly doubt it, she will come back around and bug you to hang out. If and when this happens, you then say well, not really sure. Maybe, I don't know.. Let me think about it. This will create sexual tension and could lead you to to a intimate relationship. However, by the way it sounds, I do not think she is interested in you in that way.

[xpaperxcutx]

Did you ever told her you wanted to be friends first?

 

I think you should let this girl go if you're not ready to play some hardball games. The thing is you, should have been forward with her from the start about your intentions. If you want a relationship, state that you're looking for one and not at a halfassed attempt at one. You sound like you have no need for friendships at this point so politely decline and tell her " thanks, but no thanks."

[drdarwin]

Hey dude, I might be in the minority, but I don't think you made a mistake. I've had something similar happen to me, and I know I would have regretted not expressing my interest. If you really like her, you should have told her, as you did. If you tried hardball, disinterest, etc. and she didn't reply, you would have wished you had told her how you feel, and you'd still be kicking yourself. Unfortunately, I don't think it usually works out in situations like this. If you're really excited about someone, you know it and make time for them, as you've done. If she were equally excited, she would make time for you. Now that you've laid it on the line, you can (a) try an alternative strategy and play some games or (b) launch her. Based on my experience, I would probably opt for (b), though I know how difficult that may seem if you really like her. If you opt for (a), which I totally understand, be prepared for a prolongation of your psychological torture.

[hearttobreak]

Yea, because its all about the game, and the scoreboard isnt it?

 

People like you care more about having the power in the situation than caring about the person you are with. But of course women love the aholes.

 

Done the same thing countless times before. Never ever happens that they develop those types of feelings that the OP wants. Never did for me or any of the people I know who also wore their heart on their sleeve and showed their cards like that.

 

Not being an ahole, just stating the facts. I wish, God, I wish it worked like the OP said and as you see in the movies, but it doesn't. The fact is, women (and men - more men) want what they can't have. Once the other party see's their cards, they use them to their advantage or tell them, listen, I do not see you in that way, but let's be BFF's.

[walktheline]

You didn't screw up, you just put yourself out there to the type of person who isn't comfortable expressing their own feelings and being honest like you were with them.

 

I found myself in a similar situation recently, where at first it was let's be friends and see where things lead to flaking out and not responding to texts/emails and then finally "let's just be friends". Seriously? I'm not in high school anymore, grow up and tell me from the beginning if you didn't like me. I too though was like you and told her how I truly felt about her and all I got in return was that single sentence text "Let's just be friends..." Honestly, I'd give it tonite to see if she shows to chat, if not go NC and write it off as a lesson learned.

[daphne]

That's some title you got.

 

I'd love to say be patient and good things come to those who wait. But I'm a girl and I know that even though I can work a lot of 10-12 hour days, when I'm into someone I make time for more than 2 times in 5 weeks. Unless she's got kids and an incredibly difficult set of circumstances or crazy work, it seems like she's not that into you. At least yet. The problem is, if you're amazing you haven't given her the time yet to get her to know you and need you. I think this is a key component for women. Ask yourself if you think she's attracted to you. If you think she's lukewarm, you're going to have to really work harder and you'd better really l ike her enough to invest in that kind of patience.

 

If you're not that into her, maybe best to keep looking. Or better yet, keep looking anyway and don't burn any bridges. People want different things at different times and the worst thing that guys do is pull the launch before they can really cultivate a good impression that may open doors later.

[zig]

That's some title you got.

 

I'd love to say be patient and good things come to those who wait. But I'm a girl and I know that even though I can work a lot of 10-12 hour days, when I'm into someone I make time for more than 2 times in 5 weeks. Unless she's got kids and an incredibly difficult set of circumstances or crazy work, it seems like she's not that into you. At least yet. The problem is, if you're amazing you haven't given her the time yet to get her to know you and need you. I think this is a key component for women. Ask yourself if you think she's attracted to you. If you think she's lukewarm, you're going to have to really work harder and you'd better really l ike her enough to invest in that kind of patience.

 

If you're not that into her, maybe best to keep looking. Or better yet, keep looking anyway and don't burn any bridges. People want different things at different times and the worst thing that guys do is pull the launch before they can really cultivate a good impression that may open doors later.

 

I like your response the best but everyone had great things to say. All the threads recommended I should have played some different cards first. Actually I did. I backed off for two weeks and it yielded so-so results. She still talked to me but didn't exactly come after me. I tried to just play the friend card and at the time I really meant it but lets just be honest when you have feelings for someone they always pop back up.

 

I like the idea of just move on and keep looking but don't pull the launch cord. I really have no reason to launch this girl other than the fact she's on the fence. She hasn't done anything wrong to me other than not make time for me and has always been really nice to me with great conversations. I've actually seen her open up to me in ways that I thought she was willing to become friends with me or was contemplating getting move involved with me (from time to time).

 

I don't regret telling her how I feel about her. I don't think it was a mistake at all, other than I should have done it more in the beginning (or maybe it's best I waited).

 

This is all in the past now. The question is what do I do now? She didn't freak out or shun me when I told her this. Actually she said, "I'm glad you're comfortable to let me know how you feel and I appreciate it". I think she was a little flattered by it tbh.... we texted a bunch of things and she was open to talking about us.

 

So now what? Do I call her up tonight and follow through and explain a little with hopes we'll work something out or do I just back off.....AGAIN! Or go no contact and let her come to me? I hate the no contact thing because how are we going to get to know each other if I'm always backing off?

[dispatch3d]

you are trying way too hard to get this girl. Stop trying to push your way into her life.

 

Like when you told her over text you wanted more blablabla. What are you expecting she replies with? Ok lets be boyfriend/girlfriend? Put yourself in her shoes, if she said ok! we're dating! then ahhhh you two are one strange ass couple. You need to go in steps, the bar slides between enemies/nothing/friends/dating/lovers/prostitute/etc. You can't go from nothing to lovers, especially not in words. It's like the car was in neutral then you attempted to put it into 5th and drive 80 mph.

 

Stop searching for some final status with her. This isn't some sort of facebook relationship status battle. Just let it be in the grey area. Talk to her occasionally but don't expect anything. Stop having long conversations with her they are a waste of your time. And stop being such a drama bomb .

 

Like with your friends do you announce to them where they are on your friend scale? Like oh hi sally you are my 5th best friend, and hello stu you are my 9th best, and fred we can now be called "friends". I guess you get my point.

[zig]

you are trying way too hard to get this girl. Stop trying to push your way into her life.

 

Like when you told her over text you wanted more blablabla. What are you expecting she replies with? Ok lets be boyfriend/girlfriend? Put yourself in her shoes, if she said ok! we're dating! then ahhhh you two are one strange ass couple. You need to go in steps, the bar slides between enemies/nothing/friends/dating/lovers/prostitute/etc. You can't go from nothing to lovers, especially not in words. It's like the car was in neutral then you attempted to put it into 5th and drive 80 mph.

 

Stop searching for some final status with her. This isn't some sort of facebook relationship status battle. Just let it be in the grey area. Talk to her occasionally but don't expect anything. Stop having long conversations with her they are a waste of your time. And stop being such a drama bomb .

 

Like with your friends do you announce to them where they are on your friend scale? Like oh hi sally you are my 5th best friend, and hello stu you are my 9th best, and fred we can now be called "friends". I guess you get my point.

 

 

I guess this whole experience is new to me. All of my past relationships went something like this... you date a girl, you date again, you kiss, you date some more, maybe in a month you have sex, you get all romantic, you talk about your future together, you find you're not right for each other, you break up. End of story.

 

Now I'm caught up in some friendship with a girl that I have feelings for and most people say you're wasting your time because once a friend, always a friend. Oh well, I'm sure I'm not the first person this has happened to.

 

I'll just let it be gray and move on.

[Star Gazer]

Did you ever told her you wanted to be friends first?

 

He did. It's in the OP. He told her he wanted to be just friends first, but things changed for him.

 

The reason why it's been slow paced is BECAUSE she's taking the friends-first approach. He's now trying to flip the script and getting pissed that she won't play along.

 

Understandable that his feelings have changed, but she's proceeding the way she wants. Their needs/wants don't mesh, so he should move on.

[Star Gazer]

I guess this whole experience is new to me. All of my past relationships went something like this... you date a girl, you date again, you kiss, you date some more, maybe in a month you have sex, you get all romantic, you talk about your future together, you find you're not right for each other, you break up. End of story.

 

If this is your experience and the MO that makes you the most comfortable, why did you tell her you wanted to be friends first? Sounds counterproductive to what you want, right?

[zig]

If this is your experience and the MO that makes you the most comfortable, why did you tell her you wanted to be friends first? Sounds counterproductive to what you want, right?

 

Not really. I thought being friends first would yield something more productive as far as a lasting relationship than what I've been used to.

 

When I told her I'm willing to be friends in my mind it meant I still wanted to work on getting to know each other but, without the romance, physical contact and commitment. It would be nice to see her once every 2 weeks. I don't think that's much to expect.

 

So I just told her that I thought she was really sexy....so what? What girl doesn't want to hear that? Somehow in my mind I'm making it out like I totally ruined the whole thing. But she seemed rather unchanged, and told me 'she's not ready to label our relationship either way until she gets to know me more'. She could have easily said, 'ummm, I think we should just be friends and leave it at that.'

 

What I'm trying to say is I don't think I changed anything. Better or worse. If anything it was for the better. She said thank you like 5 times, seemed flattered, and said thanks for being honest twice.

[daphne]

I like your response the best but everyone had great things to say. All the threads recommended I should have played some different cards first. Actually I did. I backed off for two weeks and it yielded so-so results. She still talked to me but didn't exactly come after me. I tried to just play the friend card and at the time I really meant it but lets just be honest when you have feelings for someone they always pop back up.

 

I like the idea of just move on and keep looking but don't pull the launch cord. I really have no reason to launch this girl other than the fact she's on the fence. She hasn't done anything wrong to me other than not make time for me and has always been really nice to me with great conversations. I've actually seen her open up to me in ways that I thought she was willing to become friends with me or was contemplating getting move involved with me (from time to time).

 

I don't regret telling her how I feel about her. I don't think it was a mistake at all, other than I should have done it more in the beginning (or maybe it's best I waited).

 

This is all in the past now. The question is what do I do now? She didn't freak out or shun me when I told her this. Actually she said, "I'm glad you're comfortable to let me know how you feel and I appreciate it". I think she was a little flattered by it tbh.... we texted a bunch of things and she was open to talking about us.

 

So now what? Do I call her up tonight and follow through and explain a little with hopes we'll work something out or do I just back off.....AGAIN! Or go no contact and let her come to me? I hate the no contact thing because how are we going to get to know each other if I'm always backing off?

 

zig,

 

I think I'm getting a fuller picture now. Did you say you wanted to just be friends at first or that you'd like to start off as friends and let it grow? I think there's a distinction. If she thinks you're not that into her, she may have backed off and put you in a data slot comprised of "this guy's not that into me so why bother investing?"

 

You should never, ever feel bad if you tell someone how you feel about them (as long as it's not hateful.) Don't let any guys tell you that either. Even if you do it when it's clear she's not into you, it's really for you. You won't have to live with regrets or wonder if maybe she did like you but you didn't pursue enough or whatever we come up with to second guess ourselves. I have learned that false pride has little place in romance. It serves a purpose to let things go if someone doesn't feel the same way. You can move on. The other person, on the other hand, sometimes has picked up the regret ball if they played games. Shoulda woulda coulda.

 

I would suggest, however, that you do some due diligence before jumping (i.e. don't blurt it out to someone who is clearly not into you) in and don't get too mushy or pushy. It's a turn off.

 

What to do now? Go with the flow. Don't contact often, and when you do keep it light. Be friendly and don't be pushy. Either it'll fizzle out or heat up.

[walktheline]

I really like D's advice...

 

 

And don't feel too bad, yeah it sucks if it doesn't work out, but you aren't the only one who's done something like that. I did the exact same thing, probably worse than you though

[curtains]

Man, its my first post, so you might see that i feel like this needs to be told oyu, now i didnt fully ready everyone elses comments, but i felt this was missing.

 

She is not into you man, your good, nothing wrong with you, people have different preferences, Move ON. . for five weeks you have tried, and you get the friends thing, you might as well just erase her out of any thoughts, it is not going to work unless you go and get some other girls, or ignore her, flip the script on her, but even if then if she shows liking and stuff, why would you want her then?

 

Brother Love

[zig]

zig,

 

I think I'm getting a fuller picture now. Did you say you wanted to just be friends at first or that you'd like to start off as friends and let it grow? I think there's a distinction. If she thinks you're not that into her, she may have backed off and put you in a data slot comprised of "this guy's not that into me so why bother investing?"

 

You should never, ever feel bad if you tell someone how you feel about them (as long as it's not hateful.) Don't let any guys tell you that either. Even if you do it when it's clear she's not into you, it's really for you. You won't have to live with regrets or wonder if maybe she did like you but you didn't pursue enough or whatever we come up with to second guess ourselves. I have learned that false pride has little place in romance. It serves a purpose to let things go if someone doesn't feel the same way. You can move on. The other person, on the other hand, sometimes has picked up the regret ball if they played games. Shoulda woulda coulda.

 

I would suggest, however, that you do some due diligence before jumping (i.e. don't blurt it out to someone who is clearly not into you) in and don't get too mushy or pushy. It's a turn off.

 

What to do now? Go with the flow. Don't contact often, and when you do keep it light. Be friendly and don't be pushy. Either it'll fizzle out or heat up.

 

Daphne,

 

Yes, you're getting the fuller picture, sorta. We went out a couple of times and things were going great! She told me how sweet she thought I was and everything. After I got cancelled on a couple of times it really took the wind out of my sails and I started to back off more and more as time went on.

 

Eventually I made the comment that it didn't seem like things were working out. She replied, "I'm sorry you feel that way, I thought you understood it's because I'm so busy, I know it can be frustrating, I'm sorry." I didn't talk to her for a week after this. Then I thought maybe we could still be friends so I said, "I've enjoyed the time I spent with you and would like to keep it going even if not in hope of anything romantic developing." She agreed. Several days later she found me on chat and was really flirty with me and acted like nothing happened.

 

It's important, I think, to consider that I was the one who suggested things weren't working out, and I was the one who suggested being friends. At the time I really felt like I was supposed to be taking the hint to back off from her (which she said wasn't the case, mind you). But to took her actions before her words.

 

Now I'm at the spot in the OP.

 

It's very possible that I have underplayed my hand the entire time and have sent her false signals. Even at the beginning I took things slow hoping we would just spend time together and things would develop. Well, that didn't happen. So I'm not convinced that going no contact or backing off is the answer.

 

I've had a pattern throughout the almost 6 weeks in this ordeal of slowly backing off and popping up. I really don't think the idea of me being too aggressive or smothering is a consideration IMO.

 

I like your ideas of giving things a fair chance, versus "she doesn't like you, go no contact and move on". I do believe that a girl can be 'won' over with enough time and hard work... although we would all agree it's the exception and not the rule. I've had a couple of girls in the past that I won over but unfortunately at the time I was only interested in the chase.

 

So I'm willing to give it another try with this girl. I'm starting to think some of my actions (or inactions) might have pusher her away. That is exactly what I want to find out.

 

So I thought about sending her an email and letting her know where I stand and telling her I hope I didn't send any false signals. This wouldn't be to find out where she stands or to force a decision on her. It would be more for me. So that I know, that she knows I'm interested in getting to know her. I'd find a tactful way to say it and not make it creepy or sappy. I think most people would say not to send an email however.

 

I can try to get one more date with her or just call her on the phone and talk to her about it. Thing is, I'm not sure if she thinks I'm a creep after what I told her the other day. Didn't seem that way however, and she said she appreciated me telling her that. (if that's even possible)

 

Sorry this was so long. Thanks for taking the time. Good Day!

[yessy21]

She is not interested. your going to have to let her go. You will always be her second choice. I was seeing someone and i always wanted to talk to them and see them and I didnt care if i had to work early the next morning... She doesnt make the time and effort dont waste your time.

[zig]

She is not interested. your going to have to let her go. You will always be her second choice. I was seeing someone and i always wanted to talk to them and see them and I didnt care if i had to work early the next morning... She doesnt make the time and effort dont waste your time.

 

That would seem to be the case now wouldn't it? I know that, everyone knows that. But I'm just going down the road less traveled on this one. If I went this far why not stick it just a little longer? There's no rules in love and war... sounds silly I know, and sounds like I'm just hanging on (which I am). When the time comes, which I'm sure is soon, I'll have no problem moving on. 'That time' is when I feel like all my efforts have been exhausted. Don't worry I'm very close.

[daphne]

I do believe that a girl can be 'won' over with enough time and hard work... although we would all agree it's the exception and not the rule.

 

If she was actually attracted and interested initially, I think it's the rule rather than the exception. You have to tread carefully, however. You tried one thing that was a little too abrupt. She may not trust you now and may see you only as a friend.

 

So I thought about sending her an email and letting her know where I stand and telling her I hope I didn't send any false signals. This wouldn't be to find out where she stands or to force a decision on her. It would be more for me. So that I know, that she knows I'm interested in getting to know her. I'd find a tactful way to say it and not make it creepy or sappy. I think most people would say not to send an email however.

 

Given the circumstances, I'm not sure that I'd advise on the email. It doesn't sound like she's sending out signals of disappointment. In my opinion, in teh frame of mind you're in now it would come off as a little wishy washy and possibly manipulative. You mentioned you have enjoyed the chase in the past. She may see it as you wanting something you can't have or that you're playing games.

 

You may have to just be patient and see what evolves in her time frame. Don't abruptly jump out and back in and expect things to be rosey. If at some point you get to spend time with her, then you can be flirty, sweet and if you feel she's reciprocating then you can say what you need to say. That would be more appropriate timing, I think.

[zig]

If she was actually attracted and interested initially, I think it's the rule rather than the exception. You have to tread carefully, however. You tried one thing that was a little too abrupt. She may not trust you now and may see you only as a friend. Given the circumstances, I'm not sure that I'd advise on the email. It doesn't sound like she's sending out signals of disappointment.

 

Daphne-

 

I took a long walk and did some thinking. First, I'm not sending the email. I believe I'm just going to have to back off again. As for the trust issue, that was something I also thought about myself, but hopefully that won't be a long term issue if we do end up talking again. Hopefully, she was flattered by it rather than turned off by it. I lean more towards flattered but we really don't know.

 

[it doesn't sound like she's sending out signals of disappointment.]

 

It doesn't seem that way to me either so it's a good time to let things rest a little rather than TRY to make it better and have the whole thing blow up.

 

So now the only question is: what do you recommend as far as backing off? I'm leaning towards just letting go completely with texts and phone calls indefinitely. I can stop into IM from time to time and if she wishes to say hi, so be it. I really feel like my hands are tied right now and any further effort on my part isn't going to make something happen. She needs to take the first step? Or give it a couple of weeks before I contact again. Too long? But! isn't this just jumping out and then back in like you suggested to avoid? Or, maybe, just maybe, it's best to let the whole thing completely die and call her up in a few months....?

 

Anyway, I like your attitude of if she was actually attracted and interested initially, it's the rule rather than the exception. It's not because I'm holding on to hope, I believe it's possible more than most realize if they would give things a better chance in relationships. Yes, I do believe she was attracted initially. Cheers.

Edited December 2, 2010 by zig

[zig]

I thought I would try to revisit this thread.

 

I've made a lot of steps of letting go from this situation and have made no contact. But, one thing is bothering me. How do girls take to some guy telling the that they are sexy? Is it alright or is it just plain creepy? In the back of my mind I feel like I ruined something by being so strait forward. I understand that it's not good to wear the heart on your sleeve, that much is understood. I'm talking about the WAY I did it. I was only being honest.

 

Girls, if some guy told you what I said in the OP would you completely write me off automatically or is it a matter that she already had one foot out the door? I hate to think I did something wrong in the words that I choose. Just wondering some thoughts that others have on this. Take care.

[26.2]

Hey Zig,

 

If a guy that I was into said what you said, I would be all over that! It is awesome to hear that a guy you think is sexy feels the same way about you. The thing is, I have talked to guys who were interested in me, but who I really wasn't that into... and when those guys say the same thing, it makes me feel bad about leading them on. That's usually the wake-up call I need to snap out of it and stop using a guy for emotional support when the spark isn't there.

 

I don't know how many women I speak for, and I know its wrong, but sometimes I will continue talking with a guy who isn't "doing it for me" simply to not feel so lonely. I do connect with guys better than women for the most part, but recently have realized that the "just friends" thing never works. My advice, do not give up on being open with your feelings! You just need to find the right girl. Letting someone know that they turn you on is not creepy, it's honest and should be a turn on if the other party is on the same page.

[zig]

Hey Zig,

 

If a guy that I was into said what you said, I would be all over that! It is awesome to hear that a guy you think is sexy feels the same way about you. The thing is, I have talked to guys who were interested in me, but who I really wasn't that into... and when those guys say the same thing, it makes me feel bad about leading them on. That's usually the wake-up call I need to snap out of it and stop using a guy for emotional support when the spark isn't there.

 

I don't know how many women I speak for, and I know its wrong, but sometimes I will continue talking with a guy who isn't "doing it for me" simply to not feel so lonely. I do connect with guys better than women for the most part, but recently have realized that the "just friends" thing never works. My advice, do not give up on being open with your feelings! You just need to find the right girl. Letting someone know that they turn you on is not creepy, it's honest and should be a turn on if the other party is on the same page.

 

That's pretty cool what you wrote. I figured that would be the case and seems to be what happened in my situation. I believe it was a wake-up call to her that she was leading me on. Like I said, I'm moving on but in he back of my head I plan to contact this girl again in a few months to see if I can spark things back up again.

 

She meant a lot to me but I'm sure I'll be with another girl by then and it won't be an issue. It's just that I've really been coming down hard on myself for being so strait forward with this girl and worried that I messed something up because of that. In actuality, I think I saved myself from even more heartbreak down the road. I haven't found anyone who said I messed up with what I actually said, but rather perhaps that I moved to fast.

 

Thanks for the reply, I feel stupid for falling for a girl that I only knew for a little over a month but it happens sometimes For me it makes it easier to tell people how I feel and have no regrets.

Edited December 9, 2010 by zig