East meets West

[Taramere]

In more ways than one. Reverse the cultures, and some of this might sound familiar

 

After two serious relationships with Chinese women, in which he got exasperated trying to figure out the reason why his girlfriends got upset, he decided two years ago that a North American or European woman would suit him better.

 

"Let's adjust the preferences," he remembers thinking at that point. Tony has worked as a data analyst at a multinational company for five years and has regular interactions with female foreign co-workers.

 

Tony and Li's preference for Western women, the men say, is also due to the growing materialism of Chinese women and the pressure to provide a new apartment for one's bride-to-be.

 

 

http://chinawatch.washingtonpost.com/2010/11/chinese-men-looking-west.php

[Untouchable_Fire]

In more ways than one. Reverse the cultures, and some of this might sound familiar

http://chinawatch.washingtonpost.com/2010/11/chinese-men-looking-west.php

 

I'm in favor.

 

Let American women cheat on someone else for a change.

[denise_xo]

In more ways than one. Reverse the cultures, and some of this might sound familiar

 

 

 

http://chinawatch.washingtonpost.com/2010/11/chinese-men-looking-west.php

 

The Chinese context is particularly difficult for men - I can't remember the stats but due to the one child policy and society selecting baby boys over girls, there is now a strong shortage of women for marriage and they can set the terms really high. If women are being picky, it's ultimately caused by a collective choice taken by society rather than these women being particularly unreasonable.

[Taramere]

The Chinese context is particularly difficult for men - I can't remember the stats but due to the one child policy and society selecting baby boys over girls, there is now a strong shortage of women for marriage and they can set the terms really high. If women are being picky, it's ultimately caused by a collective choice taken by society rather than these women being particularly unreasonable.

 

 

That policy has been a ticking time bomb for a long time. The combination of China becoming increasingly powerful in economic terms, and many of its men feeling excluded from both the economic boom and from family life (ie by finding a wife) is something I feel quite uneasy about.

 

Someone called Kaz Ross wrote an article about in The Journal of Asia Pacific Studies recently which contained some thoughts on the inherent problems of such a gender imbalance. I'm not sure how much awareness there is, in the West, of what a very real concern this imbalance is in China.

[Untouchable_Fire]

The Chinese context is particularly difficult for men - I can't remember the stats but due to the one child policy and society selecting baby boys over girls, there is now a strong shortage of women for marriage and they can set the terms really high. If women are being picky, it's ultimately caused by a collective choice taken by society rather than these women being particularly unreasonable.

 

True they might be getting a bit pickier... but do you really think most chinese guys are going to look around and find American women as the solution? Let's be honest... women in the U.S. have a really bad reputation, and it's very well deserved.

 

I'm betting that southeast asia is going to a much more attractive choice for a bride.

[In The Green]

Interesting article Tara! I've met men from Taiwan (not mainland China I know) and really enjoyed their personalities. Not sure how I would do with marrying one if traditional roles came up though.

 

Strange that we're talking about the 1 child policy and that couple they show had 3 children. How does that work? Maybe they are exempt because she is an American citizen and not Chinese?

[Taramere]

Interesting article Tara! I've met men from Taiwan (not mainland China I know) and really enjoyed their personalities. Not sure how I would do with marrying one if traditional roles came up though.

 

Strange that we're talking about the 1 child policy and that couple they show had 3 children. How does that work? Maybe they are exempt because she is an American citizen and not Chinese?

 

Did you read the Ross article too, ITG? The link's a bit big, but I'll post it and see what happens...

 

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:-YUypHcny0IJ:www.japss.org/upload/12.ross.pdf+bachelor+villages+china&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgbthEheE7wiATNhYZY2ds_lhtq6n_qdwtefN1DC_G3PXTfUHEllQXzB4VB0tq839TwN1cVhxNns_Crjp3JQSvaRSRcUSSDqtAxGJ5Xv5Fvj4shYv_0UIwlbrLxH53hIfjH4L9r&sig=AHIEtbRoBeiuY7ngaP5umSP5RR0aaQmh9w

[musemaj11]

Supply and demand at work.

[Taramere]

Interesting article Tara! I've met men from Taiwan (not mainland China I know) and really enjoyed their personalities. Not sure how I would do with marrying one if traditional roles came up though.

 

Strange that we're talking about the 1 child policy and that couple they show had 3 children. How does that work? Maybe they are exempt because she is an American citizen and not Chinese?

 

Okay - the link worked. It widened the screen, so I couldn't post anything else. I'm not sure how the exemption rule works if the couple are East/West.

 

Re the traditional roles thing....guys I've met who are Asian but living here don't seem fixated on traditional male/female roles at all. The culture in China once you get across the border from Hong Kong is a mystery to me though. I visited once (you get stared at like crazy if you're a Westerner...I felt like a celebrity, and I can't say I enjoyed it.)

[threebyfate]

"Hi, my name is [insert male name]. I have a value set, traits and beliefs that aren't considered positive within my culture. So I'm looking elsewhere for someone who has a similar ideal."

 

"Hi, my name is [insert male name]. All the women in my culture suck so eff 'em all 'cause they suck wind. [insert culture] women are teh best."

 

Two mindsets, one attractive, the other a victim of himself.

[Taramere]

"Hi, my name is [insert male name]. I have a value set, traits and beliefs that aren't considered positive within my culture. So I'm looking elsewhere for someone who has a similar ideal."

 

Yes, I liked that guy's attitude. Other than expressing unhappiness about the tradition of buying a house before you propose, he wasn't disrespecting his own culture. His attitude was more "I've thought this through. I know who I am, who would suit me and I'm not afraid to live in a set-up others might find unusual in order to give things the best chance of working out."

[xpaperxcutx]

Lol this is weird. I thought the concept of materialism derived from the West... If Asian men think Asian women are materialistic, wouldn't dating Caucasian Women be all the more counterproductive?

 

If anything, the rising economic boom has widened the gap between genders and the rich and poor. Traditional values are fading, no one considers settling down until they have their careers worked out ( Jobs are meager considering the population; and retirement usually begins at 55). Money is always an issue, either you're too overqualified or underqualified for a job, and sometimes even when you're holding a managerial position, your income won't help pay for most of your bills ( if you have a big family, most of the money goes to supporting your elderly parents).

 

In the Chinese belief, having private ownership of a home means you're successful. Back in the 90s, people can still afford apartments in the cities. Nowadays, you can't even cover the cost of down payment because of the real estate bubble. What does this say?

Edited November 29, 2010 by xpaperxcutx

[threebyfate]

Yes, I liked that guy's attitude. Other than expressing unhappiness about the tradition of buying a house before you propose, he wasn't disrespecting his own culture. His attitude was more "I've thought this through. I know who I am, who would suit me and I'm not afraid to live in a set-up others might find unusual in order to give things the best chance of working out."

Yes, he was cool.

 

I've always been fascinated by Asian culture and specifically, China since they've been the rising star for a number of years. In talking to Asian friends and their parents and grandparents, the social safety nets in China are very few and far between, where immediate and extended family are your social safety nets. This is probably why financial security is so important and why the average China resident saves 30% of their annual income.

 

Having a substantial savings rate has been greatly helpful to China economically. Having a very minimal savings rate in the U.S., more an economy based on credit and debt, have been part of the downfall of the U.S. and other western countries.

[Taramere]

Lol this is weird. I thought the concept of materialism derived from the West... If Asian men think Asian women are materialistic, wouldn't dating Caucasian Women be all the more counterproductive?

 

Materialism might be commonly regarded as a Western thing, but I think it's been embraced in the East by those who can afford it

 

http://www.moneyweek.com/investment-advice/how-china-fell-in-love-with-louis-vuitton.aspx

 

If anything, the rising economic boom has widened the gap between genders and the rich and poor.

 

It's an ongoing problem. With economic boom comes increased conspicuous consumption, promotion of luxury goods and accompanying promotion of dissatisfaction for those who can't afford them). When it's boom time, it's not boom time for everyone. Those who haven't managed to get on the property ladder in time invariably lose out.

 

Do you live in China, P?

[xpaperxcutx]

Materialism might be commonly regarded as a Western thing, but I think it's been embraced in the East by those who can afford it

 

http://www.moneyweek.com/investment-advice/how-china-fell-in-love-with-louis-vuitton.aspx

 

 

 

It's an ongoing problem. With economic boom comes increased conspicuous consumption, promotion of luxury goods and accompanying promotion of dissatisfaction for those who can't afford them). When it's boom time, it's not boom time for everyone. Those who haven't managed to get on the property ladder in time invariably lose out.

 

Do you live in China, P?

 

I have relatives in China, and I was in Guangzhou back in 2005, so I saw the effect of the " economic boom" in person. Every few blocks there were cranes erecting taller and taller buildings and skyscrapers. The roads are congested with vehicles, and on every corner, you're confronted with stores and shopping malls.

 

I also saw a increasing flow of migrant workers from the countryside flooding into the city.

[Taramere]

I have relatives in China, and I was in Guangzhou back in 2005, so I saw the effect of the " economic boom" in person. Every few blocks there were cranes erecting taller and taller buildings and skyscrapers. The roads are congested with vehicles, and on every corner, you're confronted with stores and shopping malls.

 

I also saw a increasing flow of migrant workers from the countryside flooding into the city.

 

I visited Shenzhen a few years back (okay - about a decade ago). It's so strange to think that it's only a few decades old. What struck me was the speed at which they throw these buildings up. New road? Hill in the way? No problem - just blast the hill to hell with dynamite.

 

The roads were absolutely terrifying. My then bf explained to me "yeah, it looks scary, but you never actually see any accidents." "Oh really?" I answered. "Look - is that a bus on fire over there?" "Oh yeah...well spotted...."

[Untouchable_Fire]

Materialism might be commonly regarded as a Western thing, but I think it's been embraced in the East by those who can afford it

http://www.moneyweek.com/investment-advice/how-china-fell-in-love-with-louis-vuitton.aspx

It's an ongoing problem. With economic boom comes increased conspicuous consumption, promotion of luxury goods and accompanying promotion of dissatisfaction for those who can't afford them). When it's boom time, it's not boom time for everyone. Those who haven't managed to get on the property ladder in time invariably lose out.

 

The desire for expensive material goods is a human trait.

 

Prioritizing material goods over family isn't.

[xpaperxcutx]

I visited Shenzhen a few years back (okay - about a decade ago). It's so strange to think that it's only a few decades old. What struck me was the speed at which they throw these buildings up. New road? Hill in the way? No problem - just blast the hill to hell with dynamite.

 

The roads were absolutely terrifying. My then bf explained to me "yeah, it looks scary, but you never actually see any accidents." "Oh really?" I answered. "Look - is that a bus on fire over there?" "Oh yeah...well spotted...."

 

Lol, yes. I remember a decade ago, there were more farmlands than there were metropolises. If anything, people saw the old as expendable.

 

And I was going to edit my last post-

 

If we have to argue about materialism, most of it revolve around the young and the divide between generation x's and ys. Those born in the 90s embraced the changes in China, especially since most of their parents saw a need to give them everything they wanted and had the means to do so. If their mindset is " more and more" then the concept of having everything " new" is not all that strange.

 

Which also makes " blowing up a hill" not all that strange, although the environmental impact is another matter itself.

[flickster42490]

I'm an asian guy in a serious relationship (4+ yrs) with a white girl living in the states. I guess I've always preferred white girls rather than asian girls. Even though I've grown up here, I've always thought they were more exotic than asian girls.

 

I mean, I actively pursued white girls and sometimes latinas, but I definitely will give an asian girl a huge chance...most likely due to my parents. They definitely would have preferred me in a serious relationship with an asian girl, but they don't dislike my white gf.

 

That's just my experience on this matter.

[Green]

I just find white women to be the most attractive. Not to say attractive women of other races don't exist.

 

If I was chinese and still had the same taste in women I would probably be looking to foreigners too.