When Providing Dating and Relationship Suggestions on LS

[harmfulsweetz]

I speak only for myself. I am over 50. I have quite a past which includes many things I am not proud of but which brought me to the place where I am today, which is a very good place. I am ready to talk about any of these aspects of my own life when I feel they might be useful for someone in similar circumstances, or who might be headed there (in my opinion).

 

In fact, if it had not been for others willing to do the same when I needed it most, I would not have been able to repair my life. I doubt I would still be alive if not for them.

 

My big thing is personal accountability. I believe with absolute certainty that a person needs to ALWAYS look at themselves in troubling situations, and amend their OWN part in that situation. Every time. This encompasses completely care for one's self, even above caring for others. And it is NOT the same as "self blame" or otherwise beating oneself up. It is the very essence of true self care and self love, which I believe needs to be in place in order to really give and receive love with other people.

 

I ALWAYS try to take the "high road." For me, it could be a matter of life or death. I know that sounds overly dramatic, but it's the truth. Indulging in blaming, victim behavior, self pity, emotional bingeing, dishonesty (including with myself) and lots of other stuff could lead me down a path I have been on and where I never want to go again. I need to check myself very often. I go off track all the time but I get myself right as fast as I can. This also really helps me maintain a good relationship with my partner, my adult daughter and many other people near and dear to me.

 

I am not aiming this at anyone in particular here. I see an appalling amount of blaming and the rest of the negative behavior noted above here on LS and I wonder frequently when this or that poster is going to look within themselves for answers, and acknowledge that they are setting up the very situations that are causing them pain. To quote a hackneyed cliche, "one definition of insanity is to repeat the same behavior expecting a different result." Another overused chestnut that has been valuable to me is the "serenity prayer." Accept the things you cannot change, but have the courage to change the things you can (your OWN behavior or even your deeper self).

 

Plenty of you think I'm "mean" but I believe that I have something to offer some people, and even that I'm sort of bound to offer it. To those who dislike it - ignore away.

 

I don't think you're mean at all. I think you tell it like it is, from what I've read and always give good, solid advice. I think people may take it as mean because of emotional vulnerability and it not being what they want to hear, but what they need to.

[Star Gazer]

I speak only for myself. I am over 50. I have quite a past which includes many things I am not proud of but which brought me to the place where I am today, which is a very good place. I am ready to talk about any of these aspects of my own life when I feel they might be useful for someone in similar circumstances, or who might be headed there (in my opinion).

 

In fact, if it had not been for others willing to do the same when I needed it most, I would not have been able to repair my life. I doubt I would still be alive if not for them.

 

My big thing is personal accountability. I believe with absolute certainty that a person needs to ALWAYS look at themselves in troubling situations, and amend their OWN part in that situation. Every time. This encompasses completely care for one's self, even above caring for others. And it is NOT the same as "self blame" or otherwise beating oneself up. It is the very essence of true self care and self love, which I believe needs to be in place in order to really give and receive love with other people.

 

I ALWAYS try to take the "high road." For me, it could be a matter of life or death. I know that sounds overly dramatic, but it's the truth. Indulging in blaming, victim behavior, self pity, emotional bingeing, dishonesty (including with myself) and lots of other stuff could lead me down a path I have been on and where I never want to go again. I need to check myself very often. I go off track all the time but I get myself right as fast as I can. This also really helps me maintain a good relationship with my partner, my adult daughter and many other people near and dear to me.

 

I am not aiming this at anyone in particular here. I see an appalling amount of blaming and the rest of the negative behavior noted above here on LS and I wonder frequently when this or that poster is going to look within themselves for answers, and acknowledge that they are setting up the very situations that are causing them pain. To quote a hackneyed cliche, "one definition of insanity is to repeat the same behavior expecting a different result." Another overused chestnut that has been valuable to me is the "serenity prayer." Accept the things you cannot change, but have the courage to change the things you can (your OWN behavior or even your deeper self).

 

Plenty of you think I'm "mean" but I believe that I have something to offer some people, and even that I'm sort of bound to offer it. To those who dislike it - ignore away.

 

I don't think you're mean either. In fact, I often think, "How the he'll did she manage to frame what I'm thinking...so...awesomely?!"

 

And you know that I agree with you 1000000% about personal accountability and ownership. The outward blame of others really needs to stop before any self-growth can occur.

[EasyHeart]

When people come here for advice, they are usually emotional, stressed and confused. Any of us in that condition know we aren't in the right frame of mind to make good decisions, so we come here for someone to tell us the right thing to do. Doing the crazy, emotional thing is always easy!

 

Of course, NONE of us make good decisions every single time in our personal lives. I don't tell people to make the stupid decisions that I've made in my own life; no one needs help in doing stupid things!

 

I think posters can sometime come off as condescending or judgmental because they make it sound like doing the right thing is easy. They forget (or discount) how hard it is to be objective when your brain is being flooded with all those hormones that make us love-stupid.

[donnamaybe]

When people come here for advice, they are usually emotional, stressed and confused. Any of us in that condition know we aren't in the right frame of mind to make good decisions, so we come here for someone to tell us the right thing to do. Doing the crazy, emotional thing is always easy!

 

Of course, NONE of us make good decisions every single time in our personal lives. I don't tell people to make the stupid decisions that I've made in my own life; no one needs help in doing stupid things!

 

I think posters can sometime come off as condescending or judgmental because they make it sound like doing the right thing is easy. They forget (or discount) how hard it is to be objective when your brain is being flooded with all those hormones that make us love-stupid.

People can often times also come off as condescending or judgmental because they seem to feel they are perfect.

 

I'm trying to understand why there is a need to pick apart advice. Isn't that the job of the person receiving it?

[Art_Critic]

When people come here for advice, they are usually emotional, stressed and confused.

 

So are many of the posters that post to those people seeking advice.

 

I can be guilty of not taking my own advice at times in public but in private I then sit down and figure it all out.

 

LS for me is kind of an example of that.. The days that I need advice I normally search or read threads till I find what I was looking for but if I created a thread about it I would get advice that I most likely would not follow.

 

Emotions maybe... maybe just the know it all mentality..

[welikeincrowds]

I'm trying to understand why there is a need to pick apart advice. Isn't that the job of the person receiving it?

Well, this is a discussion forum, and on this section that's a large part of the discussion for most threads: agreement or disagreement on details of advice.

[EasyHeart]

People can often times also come off as condescending or judgmental because they seem to feel they are perfect.

 

I'm trying to understand why there is a need to pick apart advice. Isn't that the job of the person receiving it?

Yup.

 

I think it's to be expected that there are an abundance of messed up people on this board, and that's okay.

 

I'm sure to get crucified for this, but: there's really no mystery why some of the posters on this board are single, is there? Whenever I see (and skip) those 10,000 word multi-quote attack-posts from the same poster, I just feel sorry for the people who have to deal with those people in RL. . . .

[Woggle]

People are often better at giving advice than actually living it. It is easy to see clearly when you are not emotionally raw.

[donnamaybe]

Well, this is a discussion forum, and on this section that's a large part of the discussion for most threads: agreement or disagreement on details of advice.

And bottom line, the "rights and wrongs" of how to give advice belong with the mods.

[welikeincrowds]

And bottom line, the "rights and wrongs" of how to give advice belong with the mods.

You're absolutely right about that. But the rights and wrongs of (fairly given) advice are matters of opinion, capable of being discussed. That's one purpose of this forum, wouldn't you say?

[donnamaybe]

You're absolutely right about that. But the rights and wrongs of (fairly given) advice are matters of opinion, capable of being discussed. That's one purpose of this forum, wouldn't you say?

But I don't think that was the purpose of this thread. Again...

[welikeincrowds]

But I don't think that was the purpose of this thread. Again...

 

You know, I thought that's what you meant, but then I wasn't sure.

[threebyfate]

Glad to see that people are thinking about it. And for the third time, I've done it too.

 

We all try to give the best advice possible but the high road isn't always the best advice given the individuals, circumstances, etc. And right/wrong, good/bad concepts are highly subjective.

[threebyfate]

But I don't think that was the purpose of this thread. Again...

donna, you assume too much sometimes. Really.

[Mme. Chaucer]

And right/wrong, good/bad concepts are highly subjective.

 

Truly I am not saying this to be argumentative ...

 

I do agree that such things are indeed subjective. That being said, I personally have come to rely profoundly on my own "moral compass." I need a more objective guidepost for how to conduct myself, so I willingly apply the concept of right / wrong to personal issues. I advise others to do the same. The reason: This helps to prevent the unreliable (and, in my case, well proven to NOT lead to my own well being) filter of gonzo emotions to be the decision maker in touchy and potentially dangerous territories.

 

I say it's my own moral compass; it is based on our cultures' basic values but very loosely, and applied only to me. For example, I do not believe that having multiple sex partners is "wrong," but I do know that it is not good for me, and if I were to find myself in such a situation I would be in dire need of taking a good look at what the heck I was up to ... that I would certainly be in the midst of some self sabotage.

 

What it most certainly does NOT mean is that I change my "moral compass" depending upon my own feelings du jour, or upon any other person's behavior (within reason, please! I mean, if my life was being threatened by another person, my moral stand against harming others would be put by the wayside quickly!)

 

When, through posts here on LS I come to understand that a person seems to be following no internal guide (except one that tries to "help" them get a "feeling" they want), what I wish to offer them is advice on getting that strong inner core so that they can rely upon that rather than a faulty emotional barometer to help them navigate.

 

I don't think of it as "tough love," but the first step would be to let go of the old way of dealing. If one is not ready to do this, I don't think there is any hope of positive movement.

[Ariadne]

We all try to give the best advice possible but the high road isn't always the best advice given the individuals, circumstances, etc.

 

No. I think people should give any advice they want.

 

They should not tailor the advice to suit some group, OP, individual, etc.

[Star Gazer]

This thread seems to be evolving into who's qualified to give advice, based on how a poster conducts his or her own personal affairs.

 

It's one thing for a poster to give advice to solve another's problems that contradicts what that poster is able to recognize about themselves or actually able to put into action. I think we've all been guilty of that on occasion.

 

However, I readily admit there are a few posters whose personal choices and thought processes are so effed up, and they've demonstrated little to no personal growth, only repeated patterns over and over again, despite being here a long, long time, and getting tons of awesome advice from a variety of people, that when they give advice or place judgment or swear they knew how things would work out (or not), I just can't take them seriously. I certainly appreciate when they can empathize though, as they've been there more than anyone.

 

As for tough vs. soft love, everyone has a style that may work for some, and not for others. I don't think any one of us should have to modify, alter, amend, twist our respective styles to fit any poster.

[northern_sky]

Truly I am not saying this to be argumentative ...

 

I do agree that such things are indeed subjective. That being said, I personally have come to rely profoundly on my own "moral compass." I need a more objective guidepost for how to conduct myself, so I willingly apply the concept of right / wrong to personal issues. I advise others to do the same. The reason: This helps to prevent the unreliable (and, in my case, well proven to NOT lead to my own well being) filter of gonzo emotions to be the decision maker in touchy and potentially dangerous territories.

 

I say it's my own moral compass; it is based on our cultures' basic values but very loosely, and applied only to me. For example, I do not believe that having multiple sex partners is "wrong," but I do know that it is not good for me, and if I were to find myself in such a situation I would be in dire need of taking a good look at what the heck I was up to ... that I would certainly be in the midst of some self sabotage.

 

What it most certainly does NOT mean is that I change my "moral compass" depending upon my own feelings du jour, or upon any other person's behavior (within reason, please! I mean, if my life was being threatened by another person, my moral stand against harming others would be put by the wayside quickly!)

 

When, through posts here on LS I come to understand that a person seems to be following no internal guide (except one that tries to "help" them get a "feeling" they want), what I wish to offer them is advice on getting that strong inner core so that they can rely upon that rather than a faulty emotional barometer to help them navigate.

 

I don't think of it as "tough love," but the first step would be to let go of the old way of dealing. If one is not ready to do this, I don't think there is any hope of positive movement.

 

I agree with your advice in general, but I think you have a tendency to nitpick about be overly harsh when it comes to every minute choice somebody makes. To me that's out of touch with the reality of human nature. People change in small increments, not all at once. So I think it's best to encourage posters when they are making some positive changes, even if they're less than perfect at present.

 

This black and white all or nothing attitude is extremely unhealthy in helping people get over their habits and can lead to more dysfunction.

 

For example, in my other thread when I made a positive change by cutting things off with J, you focused on the negative aspects rather than encouraging me for making a good choice. That was a step forward for me (usually I'd continue to let the guy string me along), yet you indicated that I was doomed to repeat the same pattern and hadn't made any progress. Any counselor worth their salt would say that was terribly unproductive criticism, imo.

 

Honestly, I don't appreciate your snide comments in my threads and I have to wonder at your motives. Btw, I don't believe that your only motive is to help other women who might be reading the thread. I think it's a bit of an ego trip for you.

Edited November 29, 2010 by northern_sky

[tami-chan]

People can often times also come off as condescending or judgmental because they seem to feel they are perfect.

 

I'm trying to understand why there is a need to pick apart advice. Isn't that the job of the person receiving it?

 

too funny! "Tu quoque"?

 

 

Anyhow, some advise are logical because the person giving is not emotionally vested (as someone already stated)-so that's an easier thing to do. But when one is emotionally vested, oftentimes, the emotion/s overshadow logic. Thus, we hear people saying "do not say that until you have walked in these shoes".

 

Other times, the one giving the advise have actually 'walked in those shoes" and therefore makes them more "reliable". The problem is when we see them do the same "mistake" over and over again- as a reader I usually then just dismiss them as "challenged" and most likely need professional help. It is amazing to me that many posters still engage them, which begs the question, why? What do you get from it? The only thing I can think of is that there is a mutual need for attention that is being satisfied this way.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

Honestly, I don't appreciate your snide comments in my threads and I have to wonder at your motives. Btw, I don't believe that your only motive is to help other women who might be reading the thread. I think it's a bit of an ego trip for you.

 

Wonder away. I do have another motive than to just help other women, by the way. It's not ego driven. Using my own experience to (hopefully) help others is helping me stay on my own positive track. I was well indoctrinated through 12 step programs galore!

 

Anyway, no worries about me addressing any of your issues anymore, unless I think using them for examples might be of real help to someone who seems to want and need it.

[Star Gazer]

Wonder away. I do have another motive than to just help other women, by the way. It's not ego driven. Using my own experience to (hopefully) help others is helping me stay on my own positive track.

Anyway, no worries about me addressing any of your issues anymore, unless I think using them for examples might be of real help to someone who seems to want and need it.

 

Same here! Giving advice based on our personal experiences serves as a reminder of where we've come from, and where we never want to return!

[harmfulsweetz]

Same here! Giving advice based on our personal experiences serves as a reminder of where we've come from, and where we never want to return!

 

This.

 

I actually think advice is best given from those who have actually been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Otherwise, how is that person actually meant to relate, empathize and understand, and if the experience can help someone else, then it's a good thing to pass it on.

[threebyfate]

I say it's my own moral compass; it is based on our cultures' basic values but very loosely, and applied only to me. For example, I do not believe that having multiple sex partners is "wrong," but I do know that it is not good for me, and if I were to find myself in such a situation I would be in dire need of taking a good look at what the heck I was up to ... that I would certainly be in the midst of some self sabotage.

 

What it most certainly does NOT mean is that I change my "moral compass" depending upon my own feelings du jour, or upon any other person's behavior (within reason, please! I mean, if my life was being threatened by another person, my moral stand against harming others would be put by the wayside quickly!)

So knowing full well that moral compasses are highly subjective, you're still choosing to force the same subjective moral compass on someone else?

 

When, through posts here on LS I come to understand that a person seems to be following no internal guide (except one that tries to "help" them get a "feeling" they want), what I wish to offer them is advice on getting that strong inner core so that they can rely upon that rather than a faulty emotional barometer to help them navigate.

How does one build a strong inner core when everytime they take baby steps, they're being ripped apart?

 

I don't think of it as "tough love," but the first step would be to let go of the old way of dealing. If one is not ready to do this, I don't think there is any hope of positive movement.

Ask yourself if there's only one way to do things, as in all or nothing. Why can't change happen in increments?

 

And I too aren't being argumentative for the sake of it. But I am challenging your outlook. You are not the other person and they are not you.

[donnamaybe]

So knowing full well that moral compasses are highly subjective, you're still choosing to force the same subjective moral compass on someone else?

I don't think that's possible. No one has to take anyone's advice here. They are free to do as they please, so there cannot possibly be forcible compulsion.

 

How can anyone give advice while, at the same time, completely ignoring their own set of values?

[Star Gazer]

Ask yourself if there's only one way to do things, as in all or nothing.

 

Oh woman! You walked right in to this!

 

There isn't one way to do anything, including giving advice!