Chicks before dicks

[greengoddess]

I'm surprised you'd ask. Oh no, hang on - no I'm not!

 

There are abusive spouses, spouses who are serial cheaters and then wonder how someone dare cheat on them, there are spouses who neglect their partner, and their partner's cries for help extensively and watch the relationship self-destruct. Some relationships have a dynamic where infidelity is much more likely (by one/other/both/either) due to the behaviour of BOTH parties.

 

Those people are in a different category to the faithful, loyal spouse who tried their best in the marriage and were 'rewarded' with behaviour entirely the opposite.

 

Yea never quite got that. Why stay with someone who cheated on you and then cheat on them. Kind of silly. They cheat it is your get of the marriage free card not okay I can cheat all I want too now.

[Silly_Girl]

Yea never quite got that. Why stay with someone who cheated on you and then cheat on them. Kind of silly. They cheat it is your get of the marriage free card not okay I can cheat all I want too now.

 

I imagine that's rarely the plan of a cheating BS... "I know, I'll stick with things a while, pretend I'm invested, then I'll go off and have MY fun!". There's a couple of BS's who subsequently cheated on LS and I didn't get that impression from their posts at all. I guess these sensitive situations take time to evolve and for feelings and events to be processed.

[greengoddess]

I imagine that's rarely the plan of a cheating BS... "I know, I'll stick with things a while, pretend I'm invested, then I'll go off and have MY fun!". There's a couple of BS's who subsequently cheated on LS and I didn't get that impression from their posts at all. I guess these sensitive situations take time to evolve and for feelings and events to be processed.

 

If you agree to work on a marriage after being cheated on you do just that. You do not go out and cheat yourself. If you can't get over the cheating you leave you don't just double the infraction and cheat yourself.

[Silly_Girl]

If you agree to work on a marriage after being cheated on you do just that. You do not go out and cheat yourself. If you can't get over the cheating you leave you don't just double the infraction and cheat yourself.

 

I don't disagree with you. I didn't cheat when I was cheated on. Every situation is very different so I don't know how I'd feel in a different set of circumstances. I was desperate to meet someone when my past relationship was at its worst. Genuinely, truly thought it was my only route to freedom. But never acted on that impulse and I found another way, luckily.

[Mimolicious]

Huh? I was describing how the MM views it -that it's not simply a choice between two women, it's a choice between two lifestyle contexts.

 

With the BW, he gets to keep his current lifestyle, friends, family etc - while with the OW, he doesn't - in its place would be all manner of new things instead. Hence, unless he really does want to make a change, the sheer weight of inertia would favour him taking the "status quo" package, which includes the BW. The BW herself may play a greater or lesser role in that choice depending on the individual situation and individual MM.

 

Not sure what you find so offensive in that summation...

 

(Nor, IMO, does it accurately describe what does in fact transpire. A MM could still lose chunks of the "status quo" lifestyle even if he chooses that package, where, say, a BS dumps him after DDay, or the extended family can't reconcile themselves to the BS taking him back, or whatever. And, similarly, a MM who chooses the other package doesn't necessarily lose that lfestyle, friends, extended family... It really does vary case by case.)

 

 

 

 

Anyone can demand anything - I could walk into the supermarket right now and demand an elephant. I'm not going to get one, but that doesn't mean I can't try. And just because someone demands something, so what? Unless someone willingly gives them what they demand, their demands are meaningless.

 

Yes it does vary. Problem here is that things are put black or white. As if everyone lived the same life or as if everyone shares the same principles. What may be norm to you may be offensive to me. Who cares though... One can't even raise the hand.

 

Back to the subject. I guess the only time that chicks will be before d!cks will be when chicks are with chicks.

[BB07]

There are abusive spouses, spouses who are serial cheaters and then wonder how someone dare cheat on them, there are spouses who neglect their partner, and their partner's cries for help extensively and watch the relationship self-destruct. Some relationships have a dynamic where infidelity is much more likely (by one/other/both/either) due to the behaviour of BOTH parties.

 

Those people are in a different category to the faithful, loyal spouse who tried their best in the marriage and were 'rewarded' with behaviour entirely the opposite.

 

SG you touched upon some characteristics that aren't going to be well received here.

Whether we want to discuss here or not there are marriages that are extremely dysfunctional and that adds in a element of likely to cheat. No I'm not saying it makes cheating excusable but the factors are there some times.

[whichwayisup]

Likewise there are SOME BS's who are not what I would call a complete victim either.

 

A MM or MW who choose to cheat cannot justifty their actions and blame their BS's for having an affair. Noone holds a gun to their spouses head and says 'cheat!' Problems IN the marriage are both their faults, but not when it comes to one choosing to go outside of the marriage and have an affair.

[Silly_Girl]

A MM or MW who choose to cheat cannot justifty their actions and blame their BS's for having an affair. Noone holds a gun to their spouses head and says 'cheat!' Problems IN the marriage are both their faults, but not when it comes to one choosing to go outside of the marriage and have an affair.

 

I said:

SOME BS's are not what I call a complete victim either

 

I did not say that it was a 'justification to cheat', or they should 'blame their BS'. Past behaviour in the relationship is often a factor, however. Marriage brings many trials and tribulations. And it takes two. Many problems (lack of communication, spending too much time at the pub, refusing to have sex with a spouse, devoting all of ones free time to a career, low self-esteem, cheating, lying, gambling, over-spending, being short-tempered) that come out of a PARTNERSHIP are rarely caused by one person.

 

It's ignorant, in my view, to cherry-pick and say that problem a, b, and c are the mutual responsibility of the parties, but x, y, and z must be laid at the door of Spouse 1 only.

 

I have seen BSs on here say that they understandably CANNOT condone the act of cheating, but they understand how the relationship got that way, and they recognise they played a part in that also.

 

It's not about blame, it's about being accepting of how different situations can come about and acknowledging the facts and history of what's gone on. I think we should be able to do that here. Acknowledge those factors and that they DO play a part. It's not so hard to understand. People can be hurt by a spouse, they often don't know how they feel until much, much later, they're clinging to the sides, not wanting to consider they might have to leave the relationship, hoping things will 'come right'. They make a mistake, which merely compounds what their spouse has already done to THEM. We're none of us perfect.

[half_ofa_heart]

What I can't understand is how an OW who loves her MM, and whose MM claims to love her, is okay with sharing him with another woman. For me, at first xMM was a fling, something I entered carelessly and without thought and without any hope or expectation that he would leave his wife for me, but as soon as it became really serious and he told me he loved me, I expected him to back it up with action. When he didn't, I walked. It was hard and I should have done it sooner for sure. But I was not going to "compete" with his wife, nor was I going to share him. I deserve a man of my own to love me and only me, and I truly believe that every woman deserves the same. That's just my .02 cents but it's something I can't understand for the life of me.

 

As far as the wife being the default option, I don't agree. If the BS knows about an ongoing affair and is not okay with it but is just putting up with it, then she is sharing her man just the same as the OW, although of course the motivation/reasons are probably much different. If the wife is in the dark then only the OW is knowingly sharing the man she loves and so IMO the OW is the default option because the MM will have both for as long as the OW will allow him to. To me this is what made me start losing respect for myself. In my sitch xMM's wife knew about us but thought we were done and so I began to realize that I was knowingly sharing him whereas she was at least thinking we were done. That wasn't right to her or me - it only benefitted xMM!

 

SB, this is the first time I've ever commented on LS so am a little unsure how this works but I seem to connect with you on many levels. Our situations seem almost identical except for one thing - D-Day came and went without casualties because both of us managed to convince BS that it was all rumors and impossible to be true. After weeks of endless emails, phone conversations with several people, she believed it was just a rumor. Meanwhile, MM and I decided to end it at that time and consider it a blessing that we weren't caught -- That lasted all of two weeks.

 

He contacted me telling me he missed me, loved me, and couldn't live without me and that his W was back to treating him like crap. I fell for it hook, line and sinker! We were once again continuing this A only now, because of the false D-Day, his W and I were now "friends" making me feel even more guilty.

 

The thing that bothers me the most is that here we were, all three of us, with this major incident that could have potentially ruined EVERYTHING; them - their marriage, their home, their family. Me, my reputation and my integrity. And, none of us changed what led us there to begin with!!! WTF?!?!?!

 

BS admitted to me that she wasn't being very nice to MM which is why she even considered it possible for him to have an A yet after this D-Day scare, she continued to degrade him, yell at him and call him names.

 

MM begged and pleaded for his wife to believe that it was all lies and rumors and when she finally believed him and he decided to "work on his marriage" he was back in my bed 2 weeks later.

 

As for me, I am not proud of myself. In fact, I beat myself up daily and hate what I have done for the past year and a half but sometimes love makes us do stupid things. I too went into this as a one night fling; never once thinking any different. He began telling me he loved me and I again, fell for each and every word. Afterall, what woman doesn't yearn to be loved?

 

A week ago, I had reached a point where I knew I had to end things when I asked when the last time he had sex with his W and he told me 3 days ago. My heart broke in so many pieces that I couldn't breathe. I sent him an email the next day telling him I was done and to please stop contacting me.

 

I am on day 7 of NC but blew it today when I called him begging him to leave me alone because he continued to try with IM's and phone calls leaving messages. Albeit, far less than he has with past attempts to end it so perhaps he is finally realizing that he his truly killing me - not to mention is W.

 

I feel like I died inside and wonder when the pain will subside. Even though I begged him to stop contacting me - deep inside I hope he does because he was so dear to me, my best friend!

 

The only thing that has helped is reading all of your stories and words of wisdom. I am sorry for all the pain that I have caused and the pain that all of you are going thru. I only hope that perhaps our words can prevent the pain of someone who is considering entering into an A as in the end - it is a lose/lose situation.

[NoIDidn't]

The point that you are missing is that on an even playing field, like the dating arena, the wife would have lost long ago. The OW senses this, and thus there is no competition. All the wife has going for her is the MM's sense of obligation for the commitment.

 

Then you don't disagree that there is competition going on then. We agree on that.

 

But we don't agree on the issue of on the "even playing field". Were it not for the W existing in many cases, the OW would not even be interested in the man. Sociologists and psychologists have pretty much shown that women tend to find a man that has proven that he can and will provide for another woman before they want him. I disagree strongly that the W would have already lost. That statement had no basis in fact. There is no real way to tell because the OW didn't allow herself to find out on an even playing field - but chose to sneak through the back door to begin with.

 

The W obviously has more going for her than the "MM's sense of obligation for the commitment". He married her even when she was once on an even playing field with other women. But I guess whatever one has to tell themselves to make them out to be the "better" choice. (Doesn't matter either way to me, and certainly doesn't seem to make a difference to the MM as he would have made a choice by now if it was that clear.)

[NoIDidn't]

I said:

 

I did not say that it was a 'justification to cheat', or they should 'blame their BS'. Past behaviour in the relationship is often a factor, however. Marriage brings many trials and tribulations. And it takes two. Many problems (lack of communication, spending too much time at the pub, refusing to have sex with a spouse, devoting all of ones free time to a career, low self-esteem, cheating, lying, gambling, over-spending, being short-tempered) that come out of a PARTNERSHIP are rarely caused by one person.

 

It's ignorant, in my view, to cherry-pick and say that problem a, b, and c are the mutual responsibility of the parties, but x, y, and z must be laid at the door of Spouse 1 only.

 

I have seen BSs on here say that they understandably CANNOT condone the act of cheating, but they understand how the relationship got that way, and they recognise they played a part in that also.

 

It's not about blame, it's about being accepting of how different situations can come about and acknowledging the facts and history of what's gone on. I think we should be able to do that here. Acknowledge those factors and that they DO play a part. It's not so hard to understand. People can be hurt by a spouse, they often don't know how they feel until much, much later, they're clinging to the sides, not wanting to consider they might have to leave the relationship, hoping things will 'come right'. They make a mistake, which merely compounds what their spouse has already done to THEM. We're none of us perfect.

 

I disagree completely with what is stated in the above. It seems to want to blame BOTH when the onus really is on the choice of one. The choice to cheat belongs to the person doing it, regardless of the other spouse. Spilling the milk is a mistake. Pouring the milk on the floor every day is a deliberate choice. Cheating is more like pouring the milk on the floor repeatedly and saying "oops".

 

But, while I disagree, I do see your point. I know exactly how my M got the point of both of us seeking intimacy (in some shape or form) elsewhere. But it never excuses him that I understood the urge.

 

Where I disagree is mainly the part where you say that gambling, etc., etc. is the fault of both and not of one person. This is demonstrably false as there are plenty of people doing the things that you mention above and they are not married or partnered up in any manner. Their vices belong to them and them alone. That is no different in a marriage. People often make the mistake of thinking that the marriage somehow magically joined the two individuals and made some sort of entity called a "marriage", but that is just not the case. You still have two individuals and whatever flaws they brought to the relationship.

 

The things you mention don't come out of "partnership", they are the vices of individuals and their chosen coping mechanisms in this world. They are not the fault of the people they have chosen to allow to share life with them.

 

I doubt very seriously that an OW is going to accept the blame passed her way when she discovers that her MM is an alcoholic or a gambler. She's not going to say that it came out of her partnership with him in the event that he leaves his marriage and they partner up. She is going to either say that something is wrong with him, or blame his ex W.

[phillyfan]

I hear often how Ow refer to MMW as the competition why would you want to compete with a MP when two people marry its a commitment for life and no one should have to compete they already won when they married.The competition should be with singles.Also I have read how MM and W should just get a D because their M is not working.Well marriage is work and in time who ever your with the newness wears off.The reason its not working is because a MP cheats and does not do the work which is required to keep the marriage strong.I have a hard time understanding why the OW thinks that the wife is any different then the OW if a person cheats its because they are not strong enough to work on their relationship and don't have the balls to get out when all else has failed.Both OW and W are being lied to and put in to situation that hurts.I'm wondering why would anyone want to be with someone they know cheats is that not setting yourself up to be in the W situation in the future.The MM loved their wife's so much they married them and had strong feelings enough to make this commitment.I can not see why the MW and W can not come together and put an end to the lies.Maybe if we consider each other as victims we could come together and show these men that they can not get away with cheating they might do it the right way either work it out or get out.I know their is different circumstances but we are allowing this.Allot of times the wife does not have proof so how can she do anything.if we were honest with each other and confronted each-other straight on then they would not be able to lie and play that roller coaster game with both woman as the saying goes chicks before dicks.

 

Yea I wonder what happened to the sistahood when I look at this forum. Its crayzee, girls hatin on each other when really then shud be hatin on the guy thats screwin both of them around.

[NoIDidn't]

Yea I wonder what happened to the sistahood when I look at this forum. Its crayzee, girls hatin on each other when really then shud be hatin on the guy thats screwin both of them around.

 

There is no sisterhood. There is only mutual respect. And its obviously lacking when one person thinks its okay to screw up the life of another person.

[Silly_Girl]

I disagree completely with what is stated in the above. It seems to want to blame BOTH when the onus really is on the choice of one. The choice to cheat belongs to the person doing it, regardless of the other spouse. Spilling the milk is a mistake. Pouring the milk on the floor every day is a deliberate choice. Cheating is more like pouring the milk on the floor repeatedly and saying "oops".

 

But, while I disagree, I do see your point. I know exactly how my M got the point of both of us seeking intimacy (in some shape or form) elsewhere. But it never excuses him that I understood the urge.

 

Where I disagree is mainly the part where you say that gambling, etc., etc. is the fault of both and not of one person. This is demonstrably false as there are plenty of people doing the things that you mention above and they are not married or partnered up in any manner. Their vices belong to them and them alone. That is no different in a marriage. People often make the mistake of thinking that the marriage somehow magically joined the two individuals and made some sort of entity called a "marriage", but that is just not the case. You still have two individuals and whatever flaws they brought to the relationship.

 

The things you mention don't come out of "partnership", they are the vices of individuals and their chosen coping mechanisms in this world. They are not the fault of the people they have chosen to allow to share life with them.

 

I doubt very seriously that an OW is going to accept the blame passed her way when she discovers that her MM is an alcoholic or a gambler. She's not going to say that it came out of her partnership with him in the event that he leaves his marriage and they partner up. She is going to either say that something is wrong with him, or blame his ex W.

 

I hear what you're saying, my point (the caveat I forgotted to include!) is that these things CAN come out of problems in the marriage, or depression caused by problems between spouses etc etc. It can be a symptom of other issues, of marital issues, That's not to say it always is, or always isn't. I suspect there's a middle ground between what we've both typed.

[NoIDidn't]

I hear what you're saying, my point (the caveat I forgotted to include!) is that these things CAN come out of problems in the marriage, or depression caused by problems between spouses etc etc. It can be a symptom of other issues, of marital issues, That's not to say it always is, or always isn't. I suspect there's a middle ground between what we've both typed.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I still feel it is blaming the marriage for a person's poor coping skills.

 

My former stepmom grew up poor and my father provided a stable, if not generous, lifestyle for her. She frequently didn't pay bills on time and maxed out her credit cards. Did her marriage make her to that, or did she do that on her own? I say both, but mostly she did that on her own.

 

She self-medicated for the loneliness of being married to my dad by retail therapy. But she also had poor impulse control - something she came into the marriage with. She is divorced from him now, and still has severe money troubles even though he paid off ALL of her bills in the divorce settlement.

 

I suspect you are right that there is a middle ground in what what we are saying, but I still lean to the fact that individuals are responsible for how we choose to react to a situation. We can either self-destruct (the vices you mentioned) or we can be proactive and use the difficulty to improve ourselves.

[Silly_Girl]

I suspect you are right that there is a middle ground in what what we are saying, but I still lean to the fact that individuals are responsible for how we choose to react to a situation. We can either self-destruct (the vices you mentioned) or we can be proactive and use the difficulty to improve ourselves.

 

I think this para of yours is the crux of the debate... I DO agree that individuals are responsible for their ultimate reactions.

 

I DON'T agree with ignoring the impact (IF one exists, it may not) of the spouse's behaviour on the outcome. Not blame-shifting, but if there is some additional accountability on the other person, that, too, should be owned. I say additional because it doesn't absolve the person of their (bad?) choices.

[NoIDidn't]

I think this para of yours is the crux of the debate... I DO agree that individuals are responsible for their ultimate reactions.

 

I DON'T agree with ignoring the impact (IF one exists, it may not) of the spouse's behaviour on the outcome. Not blame-shifting, but if there is some additional accountability on the other person, that, too, should be owned. I say additional because it doesn't absolve the person of their (bad?) choices.

 

I haven't suggested ignoring the impact of the spouse's behavior. I just believe that we should concentrate on what we can control - ourselves.

 

I couldn't control my H's cheating on me. But I could and did control how I dealt with it. I couldn't control the events that led to the really tough time that our marriage endured (family members dying, loss of jobs, etc.). But I could control how I handled it.

 

I remember quite a few times listening to my H tell me that he wished he was a drinker (he's not) so he could dull the pain of losing his parents, cousin, grandparents. I loss family members too, but I didn't respond the same way he did.

 

He blamed me for not understanding his losses all while never sharing how he felt to begin with. I didn't ignore his pain, I was shut out of it. His choice. I was existing in the same marriage with poor communication too, but I didn't cheat on him (I flirting with the idea, so I'm not entirely innocent here). His choice. I did blame him for the part of the problems that I felt he contributed the most too. I own that. I own that it made him feel unappreciated. My choice. And yes, it contributed directly to the feelings that led him to cheat.

 

But I didn't make him cheat. He chose that. And because of the insecurities he brought to our marriage, it was something he was always vulnerable to doing.

[Silly_Girl]

I haven't suggested ignoring the impact of the spouse's behavior. I just believe that we should concentrate on what we can control - ourselves.

 

I couldn't control my H's cheating on me. But I could and did control how I dealt with it. I couldn't control the events that led to the really tough time that our marriage endured (family members dying, loss of jobs, etc.). But I could control how I handled it.

 

I remember quite a few times listening to my H tell me that he wished he was a drinker (he's not) so he could dull the pain of losing his parents, cousin, grandparents. I loss family members too, but I didn't respond the same way he did.

 

He blamed me for not understanding his losses all while never sharing how he felt to begin with. I didn't ignore his pain, I was shut out of it. His choice. I was existing in the same marriage with poor communication too, but I didn't cheat on him (I flirting with the idea, so I'm not entirely innocent here). His choice. I did blame him for the part of the problems that I felt he contributed the most too. I own that. I own that it made him feel unappreciated. My choice. And yes, it contributed directly to the feelings that led him to cheat.

 

But I didn't make him cheat. He chose that. And because of the insecurities he brought to our marriage, it was something he was always vulnerable to doing.

 

That all makes complete sense to me.

[Snowflower]

I haven't suggested ignoring the impact of the spouse's behavior. I just believe that we should concentrate on what we can control - ourselves.

 

I couldn't control my H's cheating on me. But I could and did control how I dealt with it. I couldn't control the events that led to the really tough time that our marriage endured (family members dying, loss of jobs, etc.). But I could control how I handled it.

 

I remember quite a few times listening to my H tell me that he wished he was a drinker (he's not) so he could dull the pain of losing his parents, cousin, grandparents. I loss family members too, but I didn't respond the same way he did.

 

He blamed me for not understanding his losses all while never sharing how he felt to begin with. I didn't ignore his pain, I was shut out of it. His choice. I was existing in the same marriage with poor communication too, but I didn't cheat on him (I flirting with the idea, so I'm not entirely innocent here). His choice. I did blame him for the part of the problems that I felt he contributed the most too. I own that. I own that it made him feel unappreciated. My choice. And yes, it contributed directly to the feelings that led him to cheat.

 

But I didn't make him cheat. He chose that. And because of the insecurities he brought to our marriage, it was something he was always vulnerable to doing.

 

Very well said.

 

I have always been one of those BS's who owned my share of the pre-affair issues in my marriage. I have no problem doing this. I did several things that that sabotaged my marriage and hurt my husband and I take responsibility for these (no cheating on my part). Part of the reconciliation process-at least for me- was to examine my own actions.

 

Of course, most of us (whoever "us" is here:rolleyes:) can agree that the WS is at fault for making the decision to cheat. No matter what problems they had in their marriage, or with their spouse, nothing justifies cheating. There seems to be an across the board consensus for the most part about this here.

 

I want to take it one step further though and point out that when a BS such as myself take some responsibility for the state of my marriage pre-affair, it is still not for anyone on the outside, including and especially AP's, to make judgments about the marriage or the BS. And the reason I don't think it is for anyone else to make judgments is because we all know that nearly all WS will engage in some revisionist history. So, how is anyone on the outside really supposed to know?

 

It's confusing to me to hear an outsider to the marriage say, "well, yeah he shouldn't have cheated but his wife did this, this, and that and their marriage had been in trouble for years." Or, "Bs's really aren't so saintly themselves." Who knows where the real truth is?

 

A WS rewrites marital history and oftentimes, but not always, presents the BS in a bad way. Things aren't what they seem.

[jennie-jennie]

thus there is no competition.

 

Then you don't disagree that there is competition going on then. We agree on that.

 

Did you not read my words "thus there is no competition"? How you manage to twist that into us agreeing that there is competition is beyond my comprehension.

[NoIDidn't]

Did you not read my words "thus there is no competition"? How you manage to twist that into us agreeing that there is competition is beyond my comprehension.

 

Actually, I didn't even see that sentence in your response. I only saw the first statement about the "even playing field" and the last about "obligation".

 

I honestly missed it.

 

No word twisting going on here.

 

What about the rest of my post? Nothing you can argue with in it?

[jennie-jennie]

Actually, I didn't even see that sentence in your response. I only saw the first statement about the "even playing field" and the last about "obligation".

 

I honestly missed it.

 

No word twisting going on here.

 

What about the rest of my post? Nothing you can argue with in it?

 

Too much for it to be worth the effort.

[NoIDidn't]

Too much for it to be worth the effort.

 

Translation: you got nothing.

[jennie-jennie]

Translation: you got nothing.

 

:laugh: I knew you didn't speak my language!

[bentnotbroken]

I haven't suggested ignoring the impact of the spouse's behavior. I just believe that we should concentrate on what we can control - ourselves.

 

I couldn't control my H's cheating on me. But I could and did control how I dealt with it. I couldn't control the events that led to the really tough time that our marriage endured (family members dying, loss of jobs, etc.). But I could control how I handled it.

 

I remember quite a few times listening to my H tell me that he wished he was a drinker (he's not) so he could dull the pain of losing his parents, cousin, grandparents. I loss family members too, but I didn't respond the same way he did.

 

He blamed me for not understanding his losses all while never sharing how he felt to begin with. I didn't ignore his pain, I was shut out of it. His choice. I was existing in the same marriage with poor communication too, but I didn't cheat on him (I flirting with the idea, so I'm not entirely innocent here). His choice. I did blame him for the part of the problems that I felt he contributed the most too. I own that. I own that it made him feel unappreciated. My choice. And yes, it contributed directly to the feelings that led him to cheat.

 

But I didn't make him cheat. He chose that. And because of the insecurities he brought to our marriage, it was something he was always vulnerable to doing.

 

 

Agree 100%. Though I understand a lot of people view the the marital issues and the cheating are one and the same...I don't. Are they related.... yes. Is it causal....possibly. Is it an excuse....never. I believe that if marital issues cause one partner to cheat, then those same marital issues should have caused both partners to cheat. You are so right how we chose to deal with those issues is what makes the difference. I chose other destructive behaviors...mostly to myself but some directed at him and others. He chose to help bring down 2 family units:eek: In his eyes(and I assume hers)it was all okay because they were feeling "whatever" they told themselves to make it okay.

 

It was always there for them both(as proven by previous behavior I found out after the fact). For me drinking was always there and I chose that as one of my coping mechanisms. I was in the same bad marriage. I was emotionally and mentally abused by him too. Why (and I would love to conduct a study on this if I believed people would really tell the truth)didn't I cheat, why didn't other people cheat?