kingpin Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 This is just an extra thought. If you cry - like i have done (especially last night when i told my mum what i was going through) and your not thinking about what you say, because your too busy crying, do you think those are the truths that come out ?
gaia Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 I think you're going to be fine probably the truth comes out when you cry, because you're not sufficiently in control to lie! How much sense it makes under those circumstances is another matter! Just remembered something else I found very helpful - humour. When it's at its worst you can't imagine laughing, I know, but if you can start to joke about the thoughts sometimes it takes some of their power away. Take care and stop thinking so much!!!
kingpin Posted March 21, 2004 Posted March 21, 2004 Ok, so here's where i am at the moment. The doubts I had over whether my girlfriend is the right one for me are starting to go away, with the help of this board, i am conquoring this particular problem. There are however others.. It's quite hard to explain, but something is not quite right with me. I have spent the last two months worrying about my relationship and doubting whether it's the one and it's had a serious affect on my mental state. It's getting to a point where i am starting to believe my doubts even though i know they are WRONG. I have been diagnosed by the GP possibly to have mild depression and I will be seeing a therapist in the next few weeks. At the moment, i can be doing anything and all of a sudden, the thought that i am sad will enter my mind and make me sad, it gets me down at any time and it's very hard to overcome. It's really hard to explain, something just isn't right and i can't put my finger on it. I don't know whether it's guilt, or just a total lack of self confidence !! Sometimes, it gets to a point where i can't even hug or kiss my girlfriend without feeling bad about myself and that something is wrong. I find it very hard to see a time when i won't feel unhappy and a time where i can kiss and hug my girlfriend and be happy as i was before. I'm just not letting myself be happy, it seems that i am punishing myself for no reason. I know (don't ask me how) that my girlfriend is the one for me and i know i could have a fantastic future with her, but this thing is putting a serious strain on my relationship and it's just not a good situation to be in. She's great cos she says she will stand by me through all this but it must be very hard for her to understand just what i am going through. I just want to pay her back and get back to the happy old me, without a care in the world like i was before. Please help !!
gaia Posted March 21, 2004 Posted March 21, 2004 kingpin, I'm sorry you're still struggling. Whether you've got mild depression or whether these thoughts are just getting you down in a big way, it sounds like you are quite low. The problem is, the lower you get, the harder they are to fight. I can remember feeling like you are at the moment. Like something won't let you be happy - as soon as you start to feel happy, the thoughts kick in and start to bring you down. I'm so glad you've got an understanding girlfriend - that will make all the difference. You say on the one hand that you're starting to believe your doubts but then you say you're sure she's the girl for you. I'm not sure I'm quite sure what you mean by that. Try very, very hard not to engage with these thoughts. Even if you feel anxious to the point of distraction, don't allow yourself to start arguing with them. They gain power that way. If you are finding it impossible to stop and your mood is still low, talk to your GP about medication. Some of the antidepressant drugs are very good for obsessional thoughts as well. Take heart - I couldn't do it without my therapist and medication. It may be expecting too much of yourself to do it alone, too. You need that help as well. But I for one am happy to be here to support you when you need it. Keep in touch and let me know how you're getting on
kingpin Posted March 21, 2004 Posted March 21, 2004 It just seems that there is no return to happiness - becasue every time i get back to being happy, i think yey i'm happy which i s a big mistake i know - it just happens ! When i say i have started to believe my doubts - i wake up in the morning and jsut think, ****, another day in this state, i think it would be easier to give my girlfriend up and that would be it - by the time i have got up - this thought goes, i think it just comes when i am at my lowest. Can i just ask if you are still on medication - if so how long have you been on them ? if not how long were you on them. I'm wary of them becasue they do have side effects and people do get addicted to them - i was prescribed them a few weeks agon - but never took them for fear of addiction. Thanks for all your help - you are a good help !!
Azaroth Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 As far as you may ask - do you love her? Start thinking, what would it be like if she was not around... if you and her never happened how would you feel? Do you think you make it without her? Do you need to talk to her every day? I been with someone just for 5 months, and i asked myself that question - and i answered it... and it was yes and now that we basically are not really talking at the moment b/c she wants more space and be single so forth... It hurts to breath when I think i can't talk to her right then and there
gaia Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 kingpin - I've been on medication for 18 months. I was on quite a high dose, now I've cut it down. I'm in the process of stopping it, to see if I can. If not, I'll go back on it. To me, I was in such a mess that any side effects were worth it, as my life was just one long battle at that point. Having said that, I didn't really have any. As I understand it, the meds aren't addictive - they sometimes cause withdrawal effects if you come off them too quickly (esp Seroxat - the others aren't too bad). What have you been prescribed? I guess you have to weigh up whether it's worth giving them a try - how bad are things at the moment? You could wait and see if the therapy on its own does the trick, but if you're very low, you've less chance of being able to manage it. Don't give your girlfriend up - she sounds like a total treasure! I know that sometimes the uncertainty is so bad that you think anything would be better - even the worst outcome. This would be a massive loss. Don't let the thoughts win!!! It just seems that there is no return to happiness There is. Believe me. I would not have believed how much meds and therapy changed my life. There are still days when I'm driving to work and I think "This is wonderful - I'm not worrying about anything stupid". It's like that horrible feeling at the back of your mind has gone. If I can do it, I'm sure you can. My thoughts had been there for years - the earlier you sort these things out the easier it is. It's a pleasure to help. Take care. Post and PM as often as you need to. And keep telling yourself - this will end .
kingpin Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 Hiya ! I understand that there can be side effects, but i feel that i can do this on my own - if i can't, then i will have to consider changing my mind. I suppose i'm staying off of them at the moment becasue it is only one aspect of my life qhich is casuing me trouble, i don't worry about anything else at all - just this. I'm desperate not to give my girlfriend up - they are just quick thoughts that i seem to be able to get out of my head quite quickly, but even though she says she will stand by me through all this, i still feel bad for putting her through it all. There are still days when I'm driving to work and I think "This is wonderful - I'm not worrying about anything stupid" I just can't imagine this at the moment, when i think that to myself at the moment - it all comes flooding back to me. Thanks again for this - your help is always good, no matter on the size of the post ! Azaroth As far as you may ask - do you love her? Yes Start thinking, what would it be like if she was not around... if you and her never happened how would you feel? I'd hate it Do you think you make it without her? No Do you need to talk to her every day? Yes I think what your not understanding is that i have answered these questions so many times, i'm beginning to doubt my answers, i can't stop worrying whether my answers are true. They don't seem to register in my brain. Thanks anyway
kingpin Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 When you take your medication - does that not bring back bad memories and feelings ? BEcasue you are only taking them to make you happy ? Thats how i see medication anyway thanks david
meanon Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 No. My best friend has this problem. She had none of the negative effects you mention and I know of no-one who has had such effects. That's not to say meds are without side effects, just not that type. She appears completely herself on it, the only difference is that she is not plagued by irrational worries. Sometimes she still does worry - she is not falsely happy, but they are of a different nature to the ill worries. It's interesting to see the contrast when she forgets her meds. The worries when she is ill are either frankly bizarre or they are just impossible to get rid of - they just seem to get stuck.
kingpin Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 it's just that in my opinion of how things would go - when i go to take a tablet out of the bottle, i'd think, hey i'm taking these becasue i'm sad, i'm sad becasue.....and then that would drag me down again !! maybe it's the depression i have or whatever it is thats clouding al judgement stopping me from seeing a happy future !
meanon Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 It seeems to me you are constantly worried about being sad anyway. The illness is partly a chemical imbalance and the meds correct that but they take 2 - 3 weeks to start working. Therapy alone is helpful but less sucessful as it doesn't correct the chemical imbalance and it's very hard (but not impossible) to restore a feeling of well being once the balance is wrong. That inability to see a happy future is a lack of hope. There is no obvious cause other than illness. Tell the doctor about that, it's significant. However you want to tackle it, it's very important that you do something about it.
kingpin Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 i wouldn't say i was constntly worrying about being sad - it's more that i remind myself i should be sad after a time of happiness, i do feel happy at some points during the day. I think it's more guilt and self-esteem than chemical balances ?! i just don't want to spend the rest of my life on tablets to keep me happy, if i'm not happy in my mind, i have to change something, i shouldn't have to depend on pills to make me happy. I'm scared of side effects and addiction sorry if i sound like a moaning baby
meanon Posted March 22, 2004 Posted March 22, 2004 Not at all they are understadable concerns - do discuss them with your doctor. There's no need to stay on them for life, you can choose to come off them whenever you want. Therapy can help with low self esteem too. Oftern this type of obsessional worrying and low self esteem come together. OK I am in haste but I'll try and explain my understanding of depression (forget about the obsessional worries for a minute): Something happens and it makes you depressed. You either sort it out, or you learn to cope, depression lifts. If you do neither, or their is nothing specific to be fixed, the depression persists. Eventually the brain chemistry alters and it is then classed a clinical depression. Once the chemicals in your brain alter, they actually cause you illness, even if you fixed the thing that caused it in the first place. That's why it can be can be very hard to shift with therapy alone. If it is straightforwrd depression a brief course of meds works well for many people with therapy it increases the chances of staying well once the meds end. All doctors will have a plan to get you off the meds if you are depresssed, there would be no need to takes then indefinately and they wouldn't want you too. People often need to be persuaded off the meds. For the obsession worries variety it's a little more complex as it is harder to get rid of. Often a longer course is needed and there can be re-occurance but the person has been taught to deal with the worries through therapy and many manage to come off it sucessfully. This is all a long way off and your doctor may have a different diagnosis. Seek information but don't worry about a situation you are not yet in. It may well be that your doctor gives you an antideprssent that works well for the worries too and seeks to withdraw it after a relatively short time (a few months) to see if the worries re-occur. You do not have to do anything you do not want to. You won't be forced to take meds you don't want.
gaia Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Great advice, meanon Right, antidepressants. Firstly, loads of people need to take them - of my 5 closest friends, only one pathologically sane individual has managed to avoid them! Secondly, you will hear all kinds of scare stories about serious side effects - whilst I'm sure that these are true, what you need to bear in mind is the millions of people who have taken them without having major problems. I went for 6+ years feeling that I should be able to do it without medication (we obsessive perfectionists are good at "shoulds"). When it finally got so bad that I had no choice (I wasn't able to get to work, was worrying all day and my marriage was under severe strain) I took them. My only regret was that I'd spent 6 miserable years that could have been avoided. Having said that, there is some very recent evidence that shows that cognitive behaviour therapy can actually change the chemicals in your brain. It works in a different way, but it can work on its own. I can only speak from my experience - I would have found the therapy too hard without meds as well. You may not. Antidepressants aren't addictive technically, but some can be hard to get off. Of the SSRIs, avoid Seroxat if this is a big concern (not sure what it's called in USA - Paxil?). I totally understand obsessing about the side effects - I did it. One of my obsessions was thinking I might have run people over (stupid or WHAT!!). When I read "seizures" was one of the rare side effects, I wouldn't take it because I thought I might have a seizure at the wheel and REALLY run someone over. You know, it's quite spooky remembering how irrational I was! At the end of the day, it's up to you whether you take anything or not, although if your mood keeps getting worse you probably should. I'm just trying to view the medication rationally. maybe it's the depression i have or whatever it is thats clouding al judgement stopping me from seeing a happy future ! I wouldn't be at all surprised. Please keep posting - let us know how you're doing.
kingpin Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Hi all, it's been a wierd few days for me... the doubts i have about my relationship are starting to go away, i am feeling more like i want to be with her every day, the main problem seems to be that i can't forgive myself for whjat i did - i am stuck in the past, when i look at my girlfriend, i see how much i could have lost her, and how guilty i feel. As you can imagine, this is very disturbing. I mean before, i just looked at her and never said inside, "i love her" to my mind - i just knew... now i'm finding myself telling myself "i love her" when i hug or kiss her. It's very strange when you can't get over the past... David
gaia Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 I think this is all down to the depression, kingpin. Excessive guilt is one of the features. Yes you could have lost her, but you didn't. You had a moment of stupidity. That is all. God, I've had a few in my time! Are you replacing the doubting thoughts with guilty thoughts? If you are, you need to give these ones the same treatment. Don't engage with them - let them float around, but don't interfere with them. Let go of this - she's forgiven you. Please forgive yourself. When do you start your therapy? What sort are you having? Have you decided about meds yet? (So many questions....)
kingpin Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 I went to the doctors last wednesday, he said he was gonna write a letter reffering me for councelling and they would send me a date for an appointment. I went through my post at dinner time and it has still not arrived so it looks like it migh be a while yet. I therfore, don't know what type of therapy i will be having yet, i'm pretty sure my first session will be arranging the way forward so i can tell you after that. i've decided against taking meds - at least for now - purely on the basis that it's not every aspect of life thats getting me down or numerous things, it's just this one incident which is causing me so much trouble. I don't really know what i am replacing the doubt with - it could be guilt but i can't be sure - it's just i can be sitting there working away or talking and then BOOOM, something happens in my mind which i can't explain, i feel down straight away. it's very very strange... Another thing i have found is i get my feelings confused. I was nervous about something the other day, something i was alwasy nervy about, yet i mistook that for worry and depressed thoughts (the knot in my stomach) and worried myself untill that was the problem - it's like something in my head is stopping me from being happy ! Kingpin (Dave)
meanon Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 one pathologically sane individual Gee thanks Kingpin, It may be worth calling to find out how long the waiting list is - they vary so much. If it will be a while there may well be things you can do in the interim to help. You mentioned that you thought self esteem was one of the causes. There are some really good books with practical exercises you can do - some are used by therapists but they are in language that most can relate to. The worrying about worrying is not uncommon - do just think of it as a normal thought that gets stuck and the reason it gets stuck is nothing to do with you as a person, your intellect etc and is simply a result of chemicals in the brain. Paying attention to the thought means it sticks around for longer, observing it and then seeking distraction works best. The main thing is that you are now more confident in your relationshipwith your gf - that's progress. Well done
gaia Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 it's like something in my head is stopping me from being happy ! I know this feeling so well. it's just i can be sitting there working away or talking and then BOOOM, something happens in my mind which i can't explain, i feel down straight away. it's very very strange... It's supposed to be the thought that triggers the anxiety, but I had it this way round so many times too. Just starting to relax, anxious feeling (usually in the stomach - like some weight dropping - v hard to explain), then thinking "why do I feel bad?" and then the worry comes back. I think that you are thinking about this way too much. Analysing every thought, where its coming from, what it means etc. is only keeping it in your head longer. I don't know whether you've got depression and the thoughts are a part of it or whether you've got OCD and you feel down because of that. I guess it depends which came first. If the depression was first, it will make managing without the meds an uphill struggle (but some people do it). Keep an open mind about medication. You don't have to decide right now (hell, it took me years!) but don't discount the option altogether. If you can get through it without meds, good for you. If you can't, no big deal - you're in good company!!! One thing I will say: you really do not want to get as bad as I got before you take something. Trust me on this meanon - who said I meant you??????LOL
kingpin Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 I actually feel happier at the moment - although i know it could (see how it's could not will ) come crashing down on me at any moment. I'm just so determined, YOu don't know how much this girl means to me - i can't describe the way i feel about her !! I'm going to wait till thursday - and if the letter hasn't come then i will be contacting the doctor in an angry manner !!
gaia Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 No point getting angry - it's the NHS Seriously, I'm glad to hear you sounding more positive. You can do this. i can't describe the way i feel about her !! You are both SOOOO lucky!
kingpin Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 It's just that i got to twenty, i was single, always had been, never been kissed...I had begun to feel that nothing would ever go right for me - that i would be single all my life.. and then in she came, the friend of my best mates fiancee and i knew straight away she was the one. Iknow people dismiss love at first site, but i thought my heart was gonna explode that night, i was so taken by her. Didn't stop me spending the whole night being my shy self though, i just didn't know how to talk to girls - she sat there, i sat there, and all of a sudden we were kissing in the corner of this pub It's the best thing that ever happened to me and i think the feelings of guilt are so strong because i knew then it was the best thing i could hope for. I didn't have to cheat to make myself realise that. I should have just believed in my instincts. I was so close to asking her to marry me before all this - and that is my target....to get through it, get stronger and to hear her say yes !! A big turning point came on friday, when we were going out, she couldn't find anything to wear becasue she says she's too fat to have nice clothes, she was in tears cos she really doesn't like herself, yet i found myself comforting her without thiking and ending up in floods of tears myself becasue it hurt to see her so sad. I just hope my brain realises whats in my heart soon and forgets that i almost ruined it !!
gaia Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 What you need is a "memory eraser" like they used in "Men in Black" Short of that (which would have SO many other uses, too), you need to find a way to stop thinking about this. It's over, done with, confessed, forgiven. You've faced it like a man! The next step is "forgotten". What I'm hearing is that you love her despite any "baggage" she might have. And I'm sure she feels the same way too. Just as an aside, the fact that your indiscretion was not with a woman will probably make it easier on her, especially if her self-esteem's a bit low. Just remembered another therapy - first you identify what your recurring thought is eg "Oh my God, I could have lost her" or "I don't know if I really love her" or whatever. Then you say it over and over again into a tape recorder and listen to it until it bores you witless!!! (It's for real, I promise). Keep getting better - we're with you all the way
kingpin Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 i really don't know what i would have done without all of you - you have given me the confidence to get on with my life and have brought the determination i have to the front of my mind - i am so determined. My brother has just got engaged this week and i look at him and think - in a year or so, i could be in the same position, i just have to let go and let the good times roll. I've done the easy bits and now it's time to get stuck in a forget the past. Thanks again
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