Accepting personal responsibility

[Silly_Girl]

Hm. It truly must be too hard to admit and to say to all others “Yes, this is for me and I don’t care *enough* about the others my actions will hurt.”

 

There are all sorts of circumstances out there and there are all sorts of outcomes to those circumstances. We all know this…circumstances are not the reasons for our actions. WE are the reasons for our actions- us and us alone. How we chose to apply ourselves to those circumstances. I bet he’s not the first MM who has wanted to be with you, I’m sure he’s not going to be the last. Maybe the other MM’s circumstances are the so similar to his as to be the same…yet, you have not chosen to become involved with them…why? Because of you and you alone.

 

...and I'm out. Have a very Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

 

Or maybe it's not possible for some people to see that some marriages, truly, should never even have existed in the first place and that some good can come out of the ending of a bad marriage.

[phillyfan]

Or maybe it's not possible for some people to see that some marriages, truly, should never even have existed in the first place and that some good can come out of the ending of a bad marriage.

 

Dude...bangin a married guy is wrong, lying is wrong, dress is up how u like, but thats the truth.

[Silly_Girl]

Dude...bangin a married guy is wrong, lying is wrong, dress is up how u like, but thats the truth.

 

Tell that to my boyfriend's wife...

[pureinheart]

I hope this reply turns out right, I am playing/trying the wrap around quote/text thing:)

 

 

Uh-oh. I hope this thread can stay civil.

 

LOL, I'm sure OWoman will see to that!

 

 

 

Actually...I HAVE seen this here in several posts. Its thinly veiled as "He pursued me".

 

And the OM/OW accepts HALF the blame. NO more, NO less.

 

 

Another lol JW, not thinly veiled for me, it is what happened in my case. A relentless pursuit that was unwelcomed until we ended up working together at the same desk on the same project. At first he drove me nuts, but then I began to see inward, a different side that noone else might not ever be allowed by him to see. These are the memories that I choose to keep.

 

 

 

 

 

I can draw a loose analogy to standing in line for something...anything, say movie tickets. There is an unwritten social code of "no cutting in line". You have an understood relation with the person in front of you (call him Joe) and the person behind you. Joe goes before you and the person behind you goes after you. You also have a loose association with the person in front of Joe and even looser connection to the one in front of that person and so on. A social contract. You would be MOST perturbed if someone named Sally got in line in front of you but behind Joe. Sally has violated the social norm. Now, has Sally violated HER own social contract? No. She had no relation to you or Joe so she can justify her behavior by saying just that -I wasn't in line (outside of this line's contract) and now I am. However, EVERYONE in line behind Sally is AFFECTED to some degree. The social contract is violated.

 

I am not sure what exactly is being communicated, not because of your lack of proper communication, but my lack of understanding....soooo, my understanding gives this answer:).

 

In the respect of "love", I stand in line with noone or for noone.

 

For me, my situation was not the norm, and of course every situation is unique, although mine followed very few norms of an A. I am still reconciling this issue.

[phillyfan]

How am I not accepting it??? This is what I don't get. I put my hand up and say Yep, I've made that life choice, I've decided this is for me.

 

Yet you say I'm trying to be absolved. No way do I expect to be absolved. Though my counsellor thinks I need to go a little easier on myself. I take those actions with me every day, and I think long and hard about them. Just because I don't BEHAVE as you want me to does not mean I am not owning where I am and the choices I've made.

 

OK I think I am now able to answr this thread LOL. In this post there is a lot of 'I', 'me', 'my counselor'. Heres the mistake. It aint about u and how u feel, it is not about ur moral code, it is about u thinkin about the OTHER people in the situation, and bein real that ur happyness means their pain, thats it really.

[pureinheart]

Well I screwed that up...will consult other thread for directions.

[phillyfan]

Tell that to my boyfriend's wife...

 

Girl if he has a wife he isnt ur boyfriend, he is an azzclown that is usin you for fun, and makin a joke of his wife. Tell him to man up and get away from u and go find a man that thinks ur more than a bit of skirt which i am sure you are.

[Silly_Girl]

OK I think I am now able to answr this thread LOL. In this post there is a lot of 'I', 'me', 'my counselor'. Heres the mistake. It aint about u and how u feel, it is not about ur moral code, it is about u thinkin about the OTHER people in the situation, and bein real that ur happyness means their pain, thats it really.

 

You're not qualified to comment on my situation because you don't know or understand it. You can condemn my ACTIONS but you cannot tell me who I think about or consider.

[Silly_Girl]

Girl if he has a wife he isnt ur boyfriend, he is an azzclown that is usin you for fun, and makin a joke of his wife. Tell him to man up and get away from u and go find a man that thinks ur more than a bit of skirt which i am sure you are.

 

He no longer lives with his wife. She is fully aware of me. I can assure you, there is no 'joke'.

[pureinheart]

I hope this reply turns out right, I am playing/trying the wrap around quote/text thing:)

 

 

Uh-oh. I hope this thread can stay civil.

 

LOL, I'm sure OWoman will see to that!

 

 

 

Actually...I HAVE seen this here in several posts. Its thinly veiled as "He pursued me".

 

And the OM/OW accepts HALF the blame. NO more, NO less.

 

 

Another lol JW, not thinly veiled for me, it is what happened in my case. A relentless pursuit that was unwelcomed until we ended up working together at the same desk on the same project. At first he drove me nuts, but then I began to see inward, a different side that noone else might not ever be allowed by him to see. These are the memories that I choose to keep.

 

 

 

 

 

I can draw a loose analogy to standing in line for something...anything, say movie tickets. There is an unwritten social code of "no cutting in line". You have an understood relation with the person in front of you (call him Joe) and the person behind you. Joe goes before you and the person behind you goes after you. You also have a loose association with the person in front of Joe and even looser connection to the one in front of that person and so on. A social contract. You would be MOST perturbed if someone named Sally got in line in front of you but behind Joe. Sally has violated the social norm. Now, has Sally violated HER own social contract? No. She had no relation to you or Joe so she can justify her behavior by saying just that -I wasn't in line (outside of this line's contract) and now I am. However, EVERYONE in line behind Sally is AFFECTED to some degree. The social contract is violated.

 

I am not sure what exactly is being communicated, not because of your lack of proper communication, but my lack of understanding....soooo, my understanding gives this answer:).

 

In the respect of "love", I stand in line with noone or for noone.

 

For me, my situation was not the norm, and of course every situation is unique, although mine followed very few norms of an A. I am still reconciling this issue.

 

I horribly screwed up, my response to JW in bold...OMG, I don't do well with electronic devices, and yes every once and awhile can find my way out of a paper bag....Lord have mercy

[Lauriebell82]

Of course not, not more than a WS. That's unfair. But they did willingly engage in a relationship with a MP. That they should own.

 

And they should own that they did not care if the spouse was hurt.

 

Because that is true.

 

 

 

THAT's an assumption.

 

I think what was meant by Sparks statements is that even though the OW does "own her part" or feels some sort of remorse, it wasn't enough to discontinue the A. Therefore, the statement should really be changed to "the OW cared the BS was hurt, but not enough to leave the A."

[Silly_Girl]

I think what was meant by Sparks statements is that even though the OW does "own her part" or feels some sort of remorse, it wasn't enough to discontinue the A. Therefore, the statement should really be changed to "the OW cared the BS was hurt, but not enough to leave the A."

 

Fair enough.

[jwi71]

Or maybe it's not possible for some people to see that some marriages, truly, should never even have existed in the first place and that some good can come out of the ending of a bad marriage.

 

I agree 100% - some M's shouldn't last and sometimes the people in them can't see that reality. I would also agree that ending a "bad" M is for the greater good of all involved - including the 2 and 4 year old I had when I D.

 

Of course, most MM/MW don't see it that way as so few manage to actually file for D.

 

I wonder what one does to "make" them "see" that anyway?

[bentnotbroken]

Same here. I'm divorcing and in a FwB relationship where he says 'we' are committing adultery because of a legality.

 

My Ex and I have been separated since 2004, in Texas a no fault divorce can cost about 700.00 dollars (there is no 'legal' separation). So not having been divorced legally has been an issue of funds not emotions or marital contract. The separation severed both.

 

Technically, I am an adulteress, yet I'm not.

 

I'd like to know where most would place me since the lines seem to be drawn in the sand.

 

 

So in 6 years you haven't been able to save $700? Sounds more like you really don't want to make it legal. IF a divorce is something they really want, they find a way.

[jennie-jennie]

And is there any OM/OW who doesn't feel "bad" towards the BS (in a cause them pain sense)?

 

I don't feel bad towards the BS. I feel sad for her, but I don't feel bad.

[alexandria35]

This is a very interesting topic for me personally because I've been on both sides, as an OW who had absolutely no guilt, and as someone with a desire to be with a MM but seeing things from a different perspective now. What changed for me is just getting older, being loved more, and learning to love more.

 

Previously, I felt that the M was between MM and his W and, although I would never get involved with the H of a friend, or even of an acquaintance, if I didn't know the W, I really did not care about her and what my actions might mean to her or to their children. MM's family was far removed from me and I always kept it that way. I would never want to meet his W. I felt no guilt.

 

Now, I just feel more of a connection to humanity as a whole and like to live my life trying to be kind to others, even strangers, and to treat others as I like to be treated. This includes both caring about how my actions affect strangers and also caring more about the effect I have on those I am intimate with. I would like to think I encourage those I love to be the best they can be and being the best does not mean deceiving your spouse.

 

I'm old enough to be able to recognize initial attractions, and so can choose how to respond before I get emotionally involved. To me it is all about kindness to others. In the end, of course, this is for me. I feel better treating others this way, so I do it for myself.

 

LS has helped me see this more clearly, as I've learned a lot here about the great pain affairs can cause for all involved. I don't want to be the person that brings such pain to others or to myself.

 

The above was a great post! And it brings to mind another aspect of having an affair that I don't think I've ever seen mentioned. I have seen some AP's post about the torment, confusion and pain the MM feels when facing the prospect of leaving their spouse and children. Even when the MM has no plans to leave they(some) will become overcome with guilt at times and will temporarily go nc or limited contact with the OW. I can't for the life of figure out how this is appealing to the OW. Even if I didn't give a damn about anyone's feelings but my own and even if I didn't care a whit about the betrayed spouse I still absolutely could not enjoy a relationship where my partner feels guilty for being with me or where my involvement with him is causing him pain or confusion. I just don't get it...anytime I have fallen/been in love it has been joyus and happy occassion for both myself and my partner. If anyone of my past serious partner's ever told me that they felt guilty for being with me or told me that our relationship was causing them confusion or torment.....well I don't think I would want to be in that relationship. I wouldn't be able to feel good about myself or the guy under those circumstances.

[fooled once]

Or maybe it's not possible for some people to see that some marriages, truly, should never even have existed in the first place and that some good can come out of the ending of a bad marriage.

 

But it isn't your place to decide about their marriage.

 

I think what was meant by Sparks statements is that even though the OW does "own her part" or feels some sort of remorse, it wasn't enough to discontinue the A. Therefore, the statement should really be changed to "the OW cared the BS was hurt, but not enough to leave the A."

 

Agree!

[whichwayisup]

I don't feel bad towards the BS. I feel sad for her, but I don't feel bad.

 

Meaning, you don't feel bad for helping your MM hurt and betray his wife? Why do you feel sad for her? I don't know how you can feel one thing and not the other.

 

You're honest JJ with what you feel, so hopefully me asking is okay.

[Silly_Girl]

But it isn't your place to decide about their marriage.

 

Of course not!! It's their place, and they decided. I'm allowed my personal opinion, of course. And that personal opinion has an influence on my choices and behaviour.

[jennie-jennie]

Meaning, you don't feel bad for helping your MM hurt and betray his wife? Why do you feel sad for her? I don't know how you can feel one thing and not the other.

 

I don't see myself as helping my MM hurt and betray his wife. I am having a relationship with him. That is between him and me. How he treats his wife is between him and her.

 

Helping my MM hurt and betray his wife would be if I engaged in the lies and deception of her. My MM knows that if his wife would contact me I would not lie.

 

I feel sad for her because I know how it feels to be the BS. I have encouraged my MM to be honest with her, but I can't make him do it.

 

You're honest JJ with what you feel, so hopefully me asking is okay.

 

I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you!

[seren]

The bottom line, for me, is that I don't participate in enabling someone to hurt another. No matter what the reason, I am of the opinion that if the MM is that unhappy, he will leave, if he loved me that much, he would leave, end of. I could not share, certainly not knowingly. I also believe that it is often difficult for an OP to give too much thought to the BS during the A and that the 'I owe her nothing' mantra in some ways, fixes the BS as a non entity, it's like we are invisible, but yet we are the one's the WS gaslights and paints a, happy front to and all that goes with it.

 

It is the lying to enable the A that I the problem with, I couldn't support someone who was blatantly lying to another who loved them and believed them, worst still trusted them for my own ends. It is not something I would want responsibility for.

 

I wonder how much an XOW/XOM would feel about their relationship if the A results in a divorce and they get married. Would they be able to say of the OW/OM, hey it's OK I understand I was one myself and just know that it isn't anything to do with you. Maybe they would be.

 

H's OW said to me, it takes two to tango, no **** sherlock, and yes, I got the I am not married to you talk, fine, then I have no problem letting your husband, family, next doors cat know as I have no loyalty to you - hearing what her husband would (and did) do to her when he found out, meant I kept quiet, had he asked I would have told him all I knew.

 

My overwhelming desire to tell her H was informed by my understanding of those consequences, the one balanced out the other. I just wish I had been afforded the same consideration. Yet, in all fairness to her she owned her part in it, I respected that.

 

I have been in situations (way back) when I so wanted to be with a man who was married, but seeing them with their wife and family clicked my moral compass (good old moral compass) firmly onto the, no, don't go there path, not that I didn't want to, not that it might have been dammed good, but it isn't in me to do that to someone. Personal responsibility can often just mean saying, when you have left your wife, come find me.

[jennie-jennie]

I would like to think I encourage those I love to be the best they can be and being the best does not mean deceiving your spouse.

 

I encourage my MM to be the best he can be. I am encouraging him to evolve and be true to himself.

 

My MM has stated that being with me he has had to watch his personality burn up. That is how much he is changing. For a middle-aged man this could be the last chance in his life to deal with certain issues, like always being inclined to do the right thing in expense of his own happiness.

 

He has always been the good boy, the good guy. Perhaps it is time to advance beyond that role and become a mature man who takes responsibility for his choices.

[OWoman]

Of course not, not more than a WS. That's unfair. But they did willingly engage in a relationship with a MP. That they should own.

 

And they should own that they did not care if the spouse was hurt.

 

Because that is true.

 

In my case yes, that is true. I didn't care if his xW got hurt. As I saw it, if she did get hurt, those were the consequences of her own actions, and I wasn't concerned with protecting her from the consequences of her own actions.

 

I was far more concerned about the ongoing hurting of innocent others - the kids, extended family members, and of course my love .

 

I've been called selfish countless times because I didn't prioritise the wants of his xW above my own (or above the needs of others, like the kids, my H, his family, etc) and I've not denied that of course I am selfish. I'm certainly not going to stand back and allow some other woman - a woman whose behaviour eroded any chance of respect from me, and who my H didn't even want anymore - to claim ownership of the man I loved, who loved me, and who wanted to be with me. I chose, he chose, and I wasn't going to rescind that choice just because it didn't sit well with some other woman. I've never denied that, and if that makes me selfish, it's a label I have no problem accepting. I'd far rather be selfish than miserable because I lacked the courage of my convictions.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I guess for some, simply not caring if their actions hurt others is enough for them to feel absolved of any personal responsibility for it. You see that mindset in all walks of life - not just affairs.

 

You can't make someone accept responsibility for something they don't really care about. No point in trying.

[steelknife]

i take full responsibility for my action. i fell and i wasnt thnking well. if i did, i didnt thnk hard enough. i allowed myself.

 

now it is over. and the affair fog lifts. the pain of rejection is still there but the humiliation is more than ever. my responsiblity for the affair is the reason why i can not regret what ive done. it was something i went into with full concsious knowledge. i only have myself to blame. if i was hurt and in pain, i knew i would be.

 

but being in that affair, everything else blurs into the background. it is me, him and now. the expected rejection down the road, lots of disappointments day in and day out, the moral issues. theyre in the background, you know they are there, but you dont bring it up.

 

it is definitely wrong. and truthfully, despite the fact that i played the role of the Ow to the hilt, i wasnt guilty to the BS during the relationship. i thnk the xmm played a role in it since, he would always casually bring her up in our conversation as if it is the most natural part of our lives.

 

looking at her now, if my world shattered he threw me under the bus. i cant imagine the pain she went through for being betrayed. and the stregnth she needs to muster to keep her family from breaking apart.

 

for the totality, i also had some moral issues of my own. but having a guy, married at that, who sell himself really well played a great part of it. but yes, down the road, i should have no part or wahtsoever in anyone's marriage problem.