Accepting personal responsibility

[SidLyon]

You should reflect on using your real identity. But if hiding behind a new one works for you, go YOU.

 

Umm. Who uses their "real" identity here on LS?

 

From one Sid to another... we are worlds apart!

[Owl]

And should the BS then also take time to consider what the OW/OM is going to feel and imagine what it would be like if it was done to you... and then if the BS still proceeds on with that action (trying to keep the marriage), s/he has chosen to act selfishly instead of selflessly?

 

There are two parallel relationships. Why is the OP asked to be more empathetic and selfless than the BS? Why is the OP judged harder than the BS if s/he tries to keep their relationship intact?

 

Both the BS and the OP are human beings in love with another human being. Why is more asked of the OP?

 

See...here's where you're still lost.

 

There weren't two parallel relationships.

 

There was ONE.

 

Then the affair started...under selfish conditions created by both the MM/MW and the OW/OM.

 

Sorry...that boat don't float.

[jthorne]

See...here's where you're still lost.

 

There weren't two parallel relationships.

 

There was ONE.

 

Then the affair started...under selfish conditions created by both the MM/MW and the OW/OM.

 

Sorry...that boat don't float.

Right. If there actually were two parallel relationships, the BS would know and approve of the OW. Then, there would be no affair, it would be an open marriage, or polyamory or whatever.

[whichwayisup]

JJ's theory makes sense for her because she doesn't believe in marriage, the vows, the act of being in a marriage and what it all means. It's hard to understand her views, especially when she equates her affair as a real deal and she is the priority, not MM's wife.

 

JT and Owl, agree 100%.

[jennie-jennie]

See...here's where you're still lost.

 

There weren't two parallel relationships.

 

There was ONE.

 

Then the affair started...under selfish conditions created by both the MM/MW and the OW/OM.

 

Sorry...that boat don't float.

 

Huh? Yes, there WAS one. Now there is TWO.

[jthorne]

My MM is waiting for me right now. We'll have sex when I am done posting.

Whoa! Okay, I just saw this. I'm sorry for being off-topic, but this blows me away!

 

Seriously, no judgment here, but I am baffled by this! I would never keep my H waiting for sex, much less to finish posting on an internet forum! Making him wait means making ME wait too!

 

Maybe j-j wasn't referring to actual physical sex, perhaps online sex? If that's the case, I guess I can see it- I'm not much of an cyber sex-er, I'd rather wait for the real thing, but that's just me. To each his own.

 

Not sure where all this came from on a thread about responsibility, so sorry again for the tj. Carry on...

[Owl]

Huh? Yes, there WAS one. Now there is TWO.

 

There WAS one.

 

Until, through a lack of empathy , the WS and the OW/OM started the second.

 

You're trying to compare apples to oranges and claim that the person who was betrayed and emotionally devestated by the creation of that "second relationship" should then show empathy and caring for that "second relationship"...when the foundation of that "second relationship" is the lack of empathy and caring demonstrated towards them.

 

Non sequiter.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Owl

[woinlove]

There WAS one.

 

Until, through a lack of empathy , the WS and the OW/OM started the second.

 

You're trying to compare apples to oranges and claim that the person who was betrayed and emotionally devestated by the creation of that "second relationship" should then show empathy and caring for that "second relationship"...when the foundation of that "second relationship" is the lack of empathy and caring demonstrated towards them.

 

Flat out ludicrous.

 

It is ludicrous.

 

But (and Jennie can correct me if I am wrong) Jennie has said previously that she doesn't have empathy for the BS or, from what she posts, she doesn't seem to care whether the WS shows a lack of empathy toward his/her spouse. One can't really argue with that. You either have empathy for someone or you don't.

[jthorne]

Huh? Yes, there WAS one. Now there is TWO.

I don't agree, but okay.

 

I get that you are saying that there are two relationships running concurrently. But if one looks into definitions of parallel, the concept of equality comes in.

something identical or similar in essential respects; match; counterpart

a comparison of things as if regarded side by side.

to form a parallel to; be equivalent to; equal.

having the same direction, course, nature, or tendency; corresponding; similar; analogous

So if your relationships are parallel as you say, then how can you also say that you are the primary relationship?

If you have equal or primary standing then why are you a secret?

[jennie-jennie]

There WAS one.

 

Until, through a lack of empathy , the WS and the OW/OM started the second.

 

You're trying to compare apples to oranges and claim that the person who was betrayed and emotionally devestated by the creation of that "second relationship" should then show empathy and caring for that "second relationship"...when the foundation of that "second relationship" is the lack of empathy and caring demonstrated towards them.

 

Non sequiter.

 

The foundation of the new relationship is love, of the old relationship vows and obligation. To me it is clear which wins.

 

Again, the love for a man is greater than the empathy for a woman.

 

Look at the MM who supposedly "loves" his wife. He isn't even showing empathy enough not to have an affair. Why then is the OW expected to? It just doesn't make sense.

[jennie-jennie]

It is ludicrous.

 

But (and Jennie can correct me if I am wrong) Jennie has said previously that she doesn't have empathy for the BS or, from what she posts, she doesn't seem to care whether the WS shows a lack of empathy toward his/her spouse. One can't really argue with that. You either have empathy for someone or you don't.

 

I have empathy for the BS. I have myself been a BS so I know what it is to be one. But having empathy for her has no impact on my MM's and my relationship. She suffers, like OWoman says, "collateral damage", which unfortunately can not be avoided.

[greengoddess]

LOL did I really just read that if the married spouse doesn't just turn the cheater over to the cheatee that they are acting selfishly? Tell me I didn't just read that? What kind of crazy logic is that?

 

Besides that being totally flawed logic, THE CHEATER is FREE to go. All they have to do is tell the spouse they are CHEATING and they say get out. That's not what happens though. They keep it HIDDEN. The spouse normally does turn them right over to the cheatee and says you deserve the cheater enjoy but the cheater gets on hands and knees begging and crying and pleading and throwing the cheatee under the bus. Jennie read some of the ionfidelity boards if you can stomach it. These cheated on spouses are not fighting to keep them the majority of the time.

[Silly_Girl]

Sorry. Not buyin' it for one second.

 

With the little tidbits of stolen time you get, and all this luuuuuuuv and lust that supposedly exists between you two, you wouldn't be spending time posting if he was within one mile of you.

 

It's a very childish claim, this one.

 

I don't know j-j's situation, but I know in mine that simply is not true. Being apart for periods does not mean you only spend time in bed when together. Maybe it did in the beginning but it's much more than that. If he wants to watch his favourite sport in the evening, whilst I snuggle in to him and read posts on LS, who cares? And anyway, those of us who have kids are somewhat restricted as to what activities will occur when.

[greengoddess]

My MM is waiting for me right now. We'll have sex when I am done posting.

 

 

classy. very classy.

[woinlove]

I have empathy for the BS. I have myself been a BS so I know what it is to be one. But having empathy for her has no impact on my MM's and my relationship. She suffers, like OWoman says, "collateral damage", which unfortunately can not be avoided.

 

It's not your relationship, it's your actions. Your actions show no empathy toward the BS so it doesn't really matter that you say you have empathy, does it? People say lots of things, but if what they say doesn't match up with their actions, it doesn't mean much to others and may show a conflicted individual who doesn't see themselves as they are.

[jennie-jennie]

LOL did I really just read that if the married spouse doesn't just turn the cheater over to the cheatee that they are acting selfishly? Tell me I didn't just read that? What kind of crazy logic is that?

 

The same crazy logic as expecting the OW to turn the WS over to the BS as an act of empathy. :laugh:

[greengoddess]

It's a very childish claim, this one.

 

I don't know j-j's situation, but I know in mine that simply is not true. Being apart for periods does not mean you only spend time in bed when together. Maybe it did in the beginning but it's much more than that. If he wants to watch his favourite sport in the evening, whilst I snuggle in to him and read posts on LS, who cares? And anyway, those of us who have kids are somewhat restricted as to what activities will occur when.

 

You actually read LS in front of him? He can read the pain that being with a married man puts the other woman in and he just doesn't care enough to change his situation for one way or the other.

[someday]

I am positive that this is going to offend you, JJ, I’m somewhat sorry but not enough to not say this to you. IMHO, you are one deluded person. Your ability to rationalize and justify this A in your favor is amazing. Really and truly…the lengths that you go and the connections you make simply baffle my mind.

[greengoddess]

The same crazy logic as expecting the OW to turn the WS over to the BS as an act of empathy. :laugh:

 

Jennie open up your eyes. The ow is a secret. The man is WITH the BS. There is no turning him over to the BS. He is there and playing with the ow on the side.

[Owl]

The foundation of the new relationship is love, of the old relationship vows and obligation. To me it is clear which wins.

 

This is your ASSUMPTION. Based on the rationalizations you're using for to mentally justify the affair to begin with.

 

You don't know what the basis is for the "old relationship". You're just saying this is what you believe it is so that you can make yourself feel that the "new relationship" is somehow better or superior than the one that existed before.

 

Emotional yoga with the goal of rationalization.

 

Again, the love for a man is greater than the empathy for a woman.

 

Look at the MM who supposedly "loves" his wife. He isn't even showing empathy enough not to have an affair. Why then is the OW expected to? It just doesn't make sense.

 

Actually, I agree with you.

 

If you go several pages back, you'll see that the whole reason we turned to the discussion of empathy was because of my belief that a major reason that the affair started was because the OW lacked empathy for the BS.

 

You agree, and demonstrate this point admirably.

 

We're not disagreeing here.

 

Case dismissed. It must be time for a beer.

[greengoddess]

Has anyone ever seen a wife girlfriend bw announce that when they get off the computer they will have sex with their man? No they don't need to because it is normal behavior for "couples" to partake in.

 

But for ow it is special, hidden, clandestine behavior.

[Silly_Girl]

You actually read LS in front of him? He can read the pain that being with a married man puts the other woman in and he just doesn't care enough to change his situation for one way or the other.

 

Why would I keep LS a 'secret'? His situation has changed.

 

Sometimes I think you like to post more than you like to read.

[greengoddess]

The foundation of the new relationship is love, of the old relationship vows and obligation. To me it is clear which wins.

 

 

Then why have you been waiting five years to "win."

 

 

There is NO winner jennie. It is not a competition. If it was it would be on very unfair terms since the betrayed spouse has no clue they are in the race.

[greengoddess]

Why would I keep LS a 'secret'? His situation has changed.

 

Sometimes I think you like to post more than you like to read.

 

It's quite sad if his situation has changed that while you are with him you would find the need or even desire to be posting here. I can see when you are alone and bored and want to help others but certainly not as you are sitting right next to him.

[jennie-jennie]

Actually, I agree with you.

 

If you go several pages back, you'll see that the whole reason we turned to the discussion of empathy was because of my belief that a major reason that the affair started was because the OW lacked empathy for the BS.

 

You agree, and demonstrate this point admirably.

 

We're not disagreeing here.

 

Case dismissed. It must be time for a beer.

 

My point is that both women lack empathy for each other. At least empathy enough to make any changes to their actions. No woman can be expected to sacrifice a relationship of love for another woman's sake.