Respect others' choices

[BB07]

EVERYONE takes a turn in the hot seat. EVERY POSTER has their views challenged, their beliefs questioned, their actions analyzed. Not just OW/OM.

 

Can't you see that????

 

You are right Spark.......and I for one am very glad that freedom of speech is here!

 

I don't think posting respectfully has anything to do with respecting a person's choices. I think it has every thing to do with not being nasty, condescending, and arrogant in response.

 

YES to NID! The word is CHOICES.

 

Great point BB!

Weren't you frequently challenged, taking quite a few brickbats if I remember correctly, from many posters who asked how could you not know your xMM was not trully separated?

 

Did you feel your life choice was not respected enough to receive some really wonderful advice here?

....Just wondering....

 

Spark.....yes I've caught some flack and I get it. It's difficult for someone to get how I got snookered that badly, but I did.

 

RE: OWomans Post..........Thing I have always found about your posts is that you are true to your beliefs. You don't waver, you don't justify and you don't whine when someone disagrees with your viewpoint. Maybe I didn't agree with them, do I think they were helpful, some definitely were no matter what side of the triangle you viewed things from. I do understand the situation that your stepchildren were dealing with...not good for any child. I respect a woman who goes to bat for a child. You are so right that not only do you not how your posts were received, it isn't your responsibility to figure out what each person perceives as and how to adjust your posts as to deal with their supposed sensitivities. And no the sky didn't fall.

 

YES, that is why I like and respect OWoman's posts, she doesn't vary and she is all about women not being ANYONE'S doormat!

 

LOL At least you are allowed to disagree with that dogma here!

 

Yes, isn't that the awesome thing about LS, we can say what we want, (within the TOS). A point I've been trying to make.

 

The two posts above are good examples of how whether to stay in the EMR or not is really the only support available on LS for OW choosing to stay in EMRs. Nobody can have missed that I am happy with my choice, yet the posts encouraging me to retry my decision are ceaselessly coming.

 

So...........just ignore them if they aren't to your liking. Why do you feel that you have to defend yourself?

 

No, it certainly doesn't hurt me, I just fail to see the meaning thereof. My decision is made, so why waste your words on me?

 

The topic of this thread is how to support OW who have already made a choice to stay in the EMR without violating your own personal values. I'm wondering if continuing to try to change the OW's decision is satisfying some need within the poster her-/himself?

 

I don't waste words trying to get you to change your mindset and yes I wonder why others do, but I suppose if I was on the receiving end of having been a BS I might be more likely to have issue with you. Yep.......I'm a mortal.

 

I'm curious.......How many threads have you started about problems in your particular situation Jennie? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall seeing many.

Perhaps you might find that LS would be more helpful and more supportive if you started your own threads with your own unique problems instead of interjecting (what some think is offensive, {your happy OW status} into other threads especially on the infidelity board. I have to admit that I wonder why you do interject your views so much in other threads when it's highly likely there is going to be some things said that you aren't going to like? Of course I'm not saying you shouldn't post anywhere you want, but in some sections it's obvious you are gonna get more flack. Goes for me too.

Food for thought...........maybe.

[Fieldsofgold]

OW, thanks for your response. I guess I don't really grasp what 'EAR' means, or how it would actually apply to the man who is proud of beating his wife, and who does not want to stop beating his wife. I don't mean this as a nasty comparison at all - I understand how you used it in your example. If Jennie wanted to get out of the affair, but kept going back I could see how to apply that. But she's content where she is and doesn't want it to be different, so how would that apply?

 

(please, everyone, these are sincere questions. Maybe dumb, but sincere.)

 

Another question - Jennie (and any other OW who would like to reply), let's say that you posted about something in your relationship that was making you sad. Totally hypothetical, everyone please understand, lets say that you posted that you are tired of MM not being with you all the time, that you are worried he will never be with you, that you are worried he really is sleeping with his wife. (I'm suggesting these as possible topics only because it might be what would bother me, and I am grasping for pretend examples).

 

What would be a good way for me to give you support? What could I say, that does not violate my beliefs, that does not encourage you to continue in a path I see as hurtful - and still comforts and supports you in a very real way?

[OWoman]

You say that, but then it seems a lot of tattling to tony goes on here because people don't want to hear others truths. Tony doesn't just read and give infractions. He gives infractions when someone TATTLES. It is so silly as adults to run and tattle that someone hurt your feelings.

 

AFAIK Tony doesn't give infractions when someone "tattles", he gives infractions when his attention is drawn to a breach of the TOS. I don't know what percentage of alerts result in infractions, but far from all, as many people here have complained. If you don't like what someone says, or how they say it, you're free to hit the alert button - but it's not going to achieve anything unless Tony decides it's a breach off the TOS.

 

So I guess if someone's "truth" conflicts with the TOS - which really are just guidelines for common human decency - then their "truth" is far from as universal as they might wish it was!

[jennie-jennie]

Another question - Jennie (and any other OW who would like to reply), let's say that you posted about something in your relationship that was making you sad. Totally hypothetical, everyone please understand, lets say that you posted that you are tired of MM not being with you all the time, that you are worried he will never be with you, that you are worried he really is sleeping with his wife. (I'm suggesting these as possible topics only because it might be what would bother me, and I am grasping for pretend examples).

 

What would be a good way for me to give you support? What could I say, that does not violate my beliefs, that does not encourage you to continue in a path I see as hurtful - and still comforts and supports you in a very real way?

 

Very good questions, FOG. And the first two actually apply to me. I am tired of my MM not being with me all the time. And at times I am worried he will never be with me.

 

The long distance aspect of our relationship is actually wearing on me more than the OW aspect. I generally feel good about our relationship but I do have moments of despair.

 

FOG, I think your post is significant. Look what happened. Just by posing those questions in a caring manner, showing respect for both your boundaries and mine, you got me to open up more than I usually do.

[jennie-jennie]

Very good questions, FOG. And the first two actually apply to me. I am tired of my MM not being with me all the time. And at times I am worried he will never be with me.

 

The long distance aspect of our relationship is actually wearing on me more than the OW aspect. I generally feel good about our relationship but I do have moments of despair.

 

FOG, I think your post is significant. Look what happened. Just by posing those questions in a caring manner, showing respect for both your boundaries and mine, you got me to open up more than I usually do.

 

If I think what I say will be used to question the existence of my relationship, I will not tell vulnerable details. I need to feel that my choice of relationship is respected even if not agreed with, to be able to open up and share the difficulties I am having.

[harmfulsweetz]

The two posts above are good examples of how whether to stay in the EMR or not is really the only support available on LS for OW choosing to stay in EMRs. Nobody can have missed that I am happy with my choice, yet the posts encouraging me to retry my decision are ceaselessly coming.

 

 

I think I asked the question and raised the point more for you to consider future possibilities, rather than just your immediate happiness. I don't think that's the only support available, but if you act so happy in EMR right now, when it all goes to pot (which in all likelihood it will) you're likely not going to get much in the way of sympathy because you're not considering the other options out there. I don't see the problem if you are truly happy in the situation you are in in people questioning that decision. You know? I mean, we don't know you or the situation 100% like you do, we can only offer advice based on what we see here. If you're happy, grand.

 

Green goddess made an excellent point when she asked if being in this EMR was somewhat easier emotionally than risking anything for something real. I say real because this relationship has in a sense no future.

 

I respect you, for being so open and honest, but I guess it boils down to my not agreeing with your actions because this isn't just about your happiness. If posters can see a car crash coming, they ought to say so, even if it looks like plain sailing right now. I was just recently told in no uncertain terms that messing around with a man was equivalent to being treated like a hooker, and it made me question my choices. I don't believe that diminished those posters respect for me, but they could see the imminent hurt arriving and wanted to help me make the best choice for me.

 

May I ask, what are your expectations from this EMR?

[jennie-jennie]

I think I asked the question and raised the point more for you to consider future possibilities, rather than just your immediate happiness. I don't think that's the only support available, but if you act so happy in EMR right now, when it all goes to pot (which in all likelihood it will) you're likely not going to get much in the way of sympathy because you're not considering the other options out there. I don't see the problem if you are truly happy in the situation you are in in people questioning that decision. You know? I mean, we don't know you or the situation 100% like you do, we can only offer advice based on what we see here. If you're happy, grand.

 

Green goddess made an excellent point when she asked if being in this EMR was somewhat easier emotionally than risking anything for something real. I say real because this relationship has in a sense no future.

 

I respect you, for being so open and honest, but I guess it boils down to my not agreeing with your actions because this isn't just about your happiness. If posters can see a car crash coming, they ought to say so, even if it looks like plain sailing right now. I was just recently told in no uncertain terms that messing around with a man was equivalent to being treated like a hooker, and it made me question my choices. I don't believe that diminished those posters respect for me, but they could see the imminent hurt arriving and wanted to help me make the best choice for me.

 

May I ask, what are your expectations from this EMR?

 

Our relationship is a long term relationship. If it ended tomorrow, I would have had 5 years of mostly happiness and what? 6 months to 1 year of grief ahead of me. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

 

Of course I have already considered all options out there, and I have done so many times throughout these five years and I will be doing it again. I am making a continuous choice to stay with my MM. As you say I am the one with the most knowledge of myself, my situation and my relationship. Nothing anyone can say here is news to me.

 

My hopes for our relationship is that my MM will leave his marriage. Or that I can move closer to him once my kids are older (my youngest is 15, so not that long). Our relationship provides so much for me today, so even if nothing changes, I'm good.

 

The day I am not good with the situation, I will end it.

 

Notice what happened now. You put the focus once again on the existence of my relationship, and then you get no details of what might be troubling me. Because that is what they are, details, and you are asking about the whole.

[someday]

If I think what I say will be used to question the existence of my relationship, I will not tell vulnerable details. I need to feel that my choice of relationship is respected even if not agreed with, to be able to open up and share the difficulties I am having.

 

Why do you need other's to agree with you on your choices? What I see here is that you want your R to be validated by other people.

 

IMO, that is a sign of insecurity. No offense.

[harmfulsweetz]

Our relationship is a long term relationship. If it ended tomorrow, I would have had 5 years of mostly happiness and what? 6 months to 1 year of grief ahead of me. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

 

Of course I have already considered all options out there, and I have done so many times throughout these five years and I will be doing it again. I am making a continuous choice to stay with my MM. As you say I am the one with the most knowledge of myself, my situation and my relationship. Nothing anyone can say here is news to me.

 

My hopes for our relationship is that my MM will leave his marriage. Or that I can move closer to him once my kids are older (my youngest is 15, so not that long). Our relationship provides so much for me today, so even if nothing changes, I'm good.

 

The day I am not good with the situation, I will end it.

 

Notice what happened now. You put the focus once again on the existence of my relationship, and then you get no details of what might be troubling me. Because that is what they are, details, and you are asking about the whole.

 

It's actually kind of difficult to read that and not feel like you are acting in a completely selfish way. You're enabling a man to betray his family in order for you to get a little happiness. You can be happy elsewhere. And I'm not talking about religious implications, I'm not remotely religious or whatnot, I just feel immensely sorry for the people caught up and trampled on while you have your five years of happiness. It was hard not to say that, but I have to say it. Nope, it's nothing new, but clearly, you haven't given much thought to anyone else, or how you would feel if the roles were reversed.

 

[jennie-jennie]

By the way, this thread is not about me, I am just using myself as an example of an OW who has chosen to stay in the EMR. I find it easier to conduct a discussion with examples from real life.

[jennie-jennie]

It's actually kind of difficult to read that and not feel like you are acting in a completely selfish way. You're enabling a man to betray his family in order for you to get a little happiness. You can be happy elsewhere. And I'm not talking about religious implications, I'm not remotely religious or whatnot, I just feel immensely sorry for the people caught up and trampled on while you have your five years of happiness. It was hard not to say that, but I have to say it. Nope, it's nothing new, but clearly, you haven't given much thought to anyone else, or how you would feel if the roles were reversed.

 

 

I have been a BS for many years, so yes, I have given thought to that. I didn't blame the OW at the time, so my behavior now is consistent with my behavior then. Love is too important, to be altruistic.

[harmfulsweetz]

I have been a BS for many years, so yes, I have given thought to that. I didn't blame the OW at the time, so my behavior now is consistent with my behavior then. Love is too important, to be altruistic.

 

Maybe. Love is important yes.

 

You proclaim that you are perfectly happy in your EMR, it benefits you, etc, there's no conflict whatsoever. So may I ask why do you need a support forum to validate your choices? Most people will not view this as a happy situation, not just for you, but for your MM and his family. Maybe his W won't blame you either, but it doesn't lessen what you are knowingly doing.

[jennie-jennie]

Maybe. Love is important yes.

 

You proclaim that you are perfectly happy in your EMR, it benefits you, etc, there's no conflict whatsoever. So may I ask why do you need a support forum to validate your choices? Most people will not view this as a happy situation, not just for you, but for your MM and his family. Maybe his W won't blame you either, but it doesn't lessen what you are knowingly doing.

 

I don't need a support forum to validate my choices. For me it is enough to know that my choices are not breaking my morals.

 

No matter how much benefits my relationship gives me, it is unsettling in a way to be the other woman. And this is my way of dealing with issues throughout life. When I was the SO of an alcoholic I went to Al-Anon. When I had problems with my children, I went to family therapy. When I was going through a very difficult and long term medical treatment, I was a member of a medical support forum. Now I am the OW, and am a member here.

 

I am also an intellectual woman, who likes to understand what is going on in my life. By reading posts here, I find grains of gold here and there which help me understand my situation. I read literature to better understand.

 

So seeking understanding of what goes on in my life, through support groups or forums, through researching is characteristic of me. To share my experiences and what I have learnt with others in the same situation as I, is rewarding as well.

Edited November 23, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[Ellin]

Why do you need other's to agree with you on your choices? What I see here is that you want your R to be validated by other people.

 

IMO, that is a sign of insecurity. No offense.

 

Someday, Jennie wrote she wanted her choices to be "respected even if not agreed with" and you're talking about her wanting her choices to be agreed with. Really, it would be nice to at least put the minimum effort into reading and understanding what someone wrote, instead of just wanting to put one's point across without caring about the subject.

 

I'll give an example. Say an OW starts a thread in which she describes her current situation. She is waiting for MM's response reagrding something and she needs advice, opinions and support on how long she should wait and what she should do meanwhile to alleviate her anxiety.

 

She's made up her mind about the way she's going to deal with her R with MM and for the time being she does not want to end it, she wants to find out a few things first before she makes her final decision. She's not ready to end it yet, she wants to do it at her own pace and take certain steps in certain order, and she's now dealing with this particular issue.

 

But her thread soon becomes overflown with posts, in which others condemn her R because it's an A and / or tell her that the only way forward it to go NC right now and it's all for her own good.

 

She's not getting much help with her most pressing issue and obvioulsy her choices and feelings are not respected. The message she's getting is that her own choices and feelings are not important or they're wrong and she needs to disregard them and start acting in accordance to other people's views and ideas and that will be the right thing to do.

 

She might end up feeling belittled and misunderstood and find herself having to spend a lot of time and energy to explain and defend her choices and ways of dealing with her own situation, instead of receiving support with what she has asked. She might end up feeling even more confused and question her own feelings and judgements. This would obvioulsy cause quite a lot of emotional discomfort on top of everything that she's going through.

 

It's a regular occurrence on this forum. If someone doesn't have any advice regarding another member's particular question or situation, why do the have the need to respond and derail the whole thing in the all predictable direction of NC and how As are wrong and hurtful?

[herenow]

IMO, LS is a slice of real life. If an OW is happy with her decision, then all is well I guess. But, when a person gets involved in an affair, there is a chance that others will not agree (with venom). If you can't handle a dose of reality on an anonymous forum, how is it possible to handle what can happen IRL?

 

What if the BW, or a friend or family member of the OW/BW/MM,etc finds out about the affair and strongly disagrees, how will you handle that? Are you going to tell them they should support your decision and be nice in how they talk to you? If so, will you support their decision to do whatever it is they feel is right for them? Goes both ways.

 

IMO, getting involved in an affair comes with the chance that others will condemn you and your actions. Nature of the beast. If you are happy, great. That does not mean others will be happy for you, treat you with respect, or care about your feelings. Some might say just being involved in an affairs is directly hurting someone and you should think about their feelings. Again, goes both ways. Cant have it just your way. That is not real life. IMO

 

JJ, if you are so interested in people being respectful towards you and your choices, then maybe you should respect others and their opinions. There are people who don't like how you say things. You still have the right to say how you feel. Why do you expect other to adhere to your idea of "support", when you don't want to give everyone the freedom to show "support" the way they want to?

Edited November 23, 2010 by herenow

[jennie-jennie]

Why do you need other's to agree with you on your choices? What I see here is that you want your R to be validated by other people.

 

IMO, that is a sign of insecurity. No offense.

 

Have you read any of my posts? I just said that I don't need validation and that I don't need people to agree with my choices.

[phillyfan]

Jennie dude, ur post is ironic. Cause u ask why people cant respect ur choices to have an affair, when the reason people get pissed at you for havin the affair is that YOU dont respect other people - meanin u dont respect the marriage of his wife and u dont respect there family unit. Nothin personal, u do what u like, just sayin...u dont respect his family so people get pissed, so no point in u askin for more respect from other people when u mess with a married guy.

[herenow]

Have you read any of my posts? I just said that I don't need validation and that I don't need people to agree with my choices.

 

Then what is the point of this thread asking people to respect your choices? If you don't need validation or agreement, then why do you desire respect? If someone strongly disagrees with your choices, I doubt they would have much respect for your choices. JMO.

[herenow]

Jennie dude, ur post is ironic. Cause u ask why people cant respect ur choices to have an affair, when the reason people get pissed at you for havin the affair is that YOU dont respect other people - meanin u dont respect the marriage of his wife and u dont respect there family unit. Nothin personal, u do what u like, just sayin...u dont respect his family so people get pissed, so no point in u askin for more respect from other people when u mess with a married guy.

 

She will probably ignore this just like she ignored my previous post (#191). Fine with me, I just wanted to get my POV out there.

[U2RockZz]

Have you read any of my posts? I just said that I don't need validation and that I don't need people to agree with my choices.

 

but you started this thread stating that "people are not respecting/agreeing/listening to you"......people will listen/respect your say when they think you are being reasonable.....show me the last time you wrote some thing supportive of BS or against affair....don't search .... all you ever say is have an affair irrespective of thread/post or BS must be a sick f***

[herenow]

If I think what I say will be used to question the existence of my relationship, I will not tell vulnerable details. I need to feel that my choice of relationship is respected even if not agreed with, to be able to open up and share the difficulties I am having.

 

Just like engaging in an affair, it is your choice to share on LS. If you choose to not share because you fear the reaction you will get, well that is also your choice. No matter what you want, some of us will never respect the choice to have an affair.

 

If that means you don't get the respect you desire, well that is our choice. Again, goes both ways here and IRL. If you say that you don't need our respect, then why start threads like this in the first place?

[jennie-jennie]

Then what is the point of this thread asking people to respect your choices? If you don't need validation or agreement, then why do you desire respect? If someone strongly disagrees with your choices, I doubt they would have much respect for your choices. JMO.

 

The point of this thread is to figure out if there is any way an anti-affair poster can give an OW who has decided to stay in the EMR support without violating their own values.

 

The thread is not about me. I was just using me as an example.

 

Read Ellin's post for a more general example:

 

I'll give an example. Say an OW starts a thread in which she describes her current situation. She is waiting for MM's response reagrding something and she needs advice, opinions and support on how long she should wait and what she should do meanwhile to alleviate her anxiety.

 

She's made up her mind about the way she's going to deal with her R with MM and for the time being she does not want to end it, she wants to find out a few things first before she makes her final decision. She's not ready to end it yet, she wants to do it at her own pace and take certain steps in certain order, and she's now dealing with this particular issue.

 

But her thread soon becomes overflown with posts, in which others condemn her R because it's an A and / or tell her that the only way forward it to go NC right now and it's all for her own good.

 

She's not getting much help with her most pressing issue and obvioulsy her choices and feelings are not respected. The message she's getting is that her own choices and feelings are not important or they're wrong and she needs to disregard them and start acting in accordance to other people's views and ideas and that will be the right thing to do.

 

She might end up feeling belittled and misunderstood and find herself having to spend a lot of time and energy to explain and defend her choices and ways of dealing with her own situation, instead of receiving support with what she has asked. She might end up feeling even more confused and question her own feelings and judgements. This would obvioulsy cause quite a lot of emotional discomfort on top of everything that she's going through.

 

It's a regular occurrence on this forum. If someone doesn't have any advice regarding another member's particular question or situation, why do the have the need to respond and derail the whole thing in the all predictable direction of NC and how As are wrong and hurtful?

[jennie-jennie]

She will probably ignore this just like she ignored my previous post (#191). Fine with me, I just wanted to get my POV out there.

 

I would appreciate if you let me read a post before stating that I am ignoring it. But you are right, I feel it is too off topic to respond.

[harmfulsweetz]

IMO, LS is a slice of real life. If an OW is happy with her decision, then all is well I guess. But, when a person gets involved in an affair, there is a chance that others will not agree (with venom). If you can't handle a dose of reality on an anonymous forum, how is it possible to handle what can happen IRL?

 

What if the BW, or a friend or family member of the OW/BW/MM,etc finds out about the affair and strongly disagrees, how will you handle that? Are you going to tell them they should support your decision and be nice in how they talk to you? If so, will you support their decision to do whatever it is they feel is right for them? Goes both ways.

 

IMO, getting involved in an affair comes with the chance that others will condemn you and your actions. Nature of the beast. If you are happy, great. That does not mean others will be happy for you, treat you with respect, or care about your feelings. Some might say just being involved in an affairs is directly hurting someone and you should think about their feelings. Again, goes both ways. Cant have it just your way. That is not real life. IMO

 

JJ, if you are so interested in people being respectful towards you and your choices, then maybe you should respect others and their opinions. There are people who don't like how you say things. You still have the right to say how you feel. Why do you expect other to adhere to your idea of "support", when you don't want to give everyone the freedom to show "support" the way they want to?

 

+1.

 

Just thought I'd quote it because it is true (IMO).

 

I think the consensus is that people do respect people as people, as humans in need of compassion, and the general consensus is that they will not be rude in their responses and such, but they will still be honest. But they do not respect the choice to participate in A, however happy the OW/OM is at that time. IMO, you can't be all that happy if you sought out a forum for support.

 

I said in earlier in this thread that people should always post honestly, but respectfully i.e no bashing. Sometimes it's hard to do that, because when you consider the direct consequences and ramifications of an A it can be kind of hard to understand why people knowingly choose to do it. JJ, I guess what gets me the most about your posts is how cavlier you seem to be about it-there's no mention of any guilt on your part, anything like that. Maybe that's why you struggle to get the support you are looking for. Because it just seems like you are quite happy in your EMR, and not remotely bothered about those you are hurting to get it.

[herenow]

The point of this thread is to figure out if there is any way an anti-affair poster can give an OW who has decided to stay in the EMR support without violating their own values.

 

 

I think many "anti-affair" posters do give valuable support all the time without violating their own values.

 

The problem is, IMO, it's not the type of support you desire. My question is: Is it possible for you to look beyond what you consider support and accept that others may have a different view on what they consider support?

 

Like you said, this is not about you. This is an open forum with varying views. If you don't like someone's view, or how they say it. that is your opinion. That doesn't mean it won't be helpful to someone else.

 

After all, it really is not about you and what you consider to be appropriate. It's about everyone who makes the choice to post for whatever reason. Tony does a good job of taking care of stuff that should not be said. Why can't we just leave it at that?