Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 The subject of the thread is respecting the life choices of another to be fully qualified to give advice. The majority are saying BUNK! to that. That is sad. This thread is about giving support to OW whose life choices you consider morally wrong, but of course it is applicable to all categories: BS, WS, OM.
OWoman Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 I think FOG is right. Choosing to get into an affair is a very self destructive decision. If your self esteem is not to the floor before you agree to an affair, it will be when all is said and done. I think there is a real naive unawareness of the harmful effects of chronic stress. Forget the "moral" aspect of it. It does not matter what religion you do or do not follow, or what values you have or do not have regarding affairs. It is an equal opportunity destructive force that will thrill you and then kill you. It is hard as someone's friend to be supportive for the same reason it is hard to tell them to go have a great time with the pistol playing russian roulette. As I mentioned in a post previously, every AP wants to believe that won't be them. That is not them and never could be. That their situation is so much different and will end so much differently. This is rarely ever the case, including in those rare scenarios where the OM/OW does leave their husband or wife. Now, there are people here who have been a BS and will lash out at you because they know the hurt it is causing, or there are people who have been the children hurt in an affair and they will weigh in. There are those who have strong religious convictions against having affairs, so they too will their say about it. What ever the reason, I can imagine being in an affair would need a lot of support but you're likely to be hard pressed to find it because wether friend or foe, affairs are self destructive and toxic and the only one who cannot see it is those in them at the time. While this may be true some of the time, possibly even most of the time, it certainly isn't true all of the time.
pureinheart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Here's what provoked it: Rude can be rude, of course. But that is a higly subjective opinion. Rude and disrespectful to me may be different than rude or disrespectful to you! The subject of the thread is respecting the life choices of another to be fully qualified to give advice. The majority are saying BUNK! to that. BS, WS, and OW/OM ALL get challenged! Rudely or not, they do! And they are ALL asked to defend or explain the choices they are making or have made in the past and present! We will have to agree to disagree because it's a choice of words that construct rude. Rude, disrespectful and sarcastic are absolutes. I didn't read the subject matter to be if you are qualified, it is simply to respect and if one finds it morally impossible to support then stay silent. That is not unreasonable, and of couse these are my words, not Jennies, although in the course of the thread this point was brought up. Why should all get challenged, unless of course in a thread such as this or one of the parties mentioned started a personal thread meant for challenge. Spark, LS was the first discussion forum I had ever been in with the exception of a chat room (1). I was in a bad place...BS/WS/OM/OW ALL worked together to support WHOEVER needed it. I am not the only one who has noticed the extreme change. The itinerary was not to challenge back then, it was to support and encourage. I certainly hope the negativity ceases and LS goes back to the original supportive state in which it was designed to be and was. To BB, of course starting your own site is an option (an expensive option, but still an option), but there has to be more to it to have a site even a quarter the size of this one, although there are other forums out there that do say it right and the people act right (verbally) and do encourage and support and aren't so combative and bullying is non existant. To Jennie, should this go down ....congrats:D, and I'm there with you.
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 We will have to agree to disagree because it's a choice of words that construct rude. Rude, disrespectful and sarcastic are absolutes. I didn't read the subject matter to be if you are qualified, it is simply to respect and if one finds it morally impossible to support then stay silent. That is not unreasonable, and ofcouse these are my words, not Jennies, although in the course of the thread this point was brought up. Why should all get challenged, unless of course in a thread such as this or one of the parties mentioned started a personal thread meant for challenge. Spark, LS was the first discussion forum I had ever been in with the exception of a chat room (1). I was in a bad place...BS/WS/OM/OW ALL worked together to support WHOEVER needed it. I am not the only one who has noticed the extreme change. The itinerary was not to challenge back then, it was to support and encourage. I certainly hope the negativity ceases and LS goes back to the original supportive state in which it was designed to be and was. To BB, of course starting your own site is an option (an expensive option, but still an option), but there has to be more to it to have a site even a quarter the size of this one, although there are other forums out there that do say it right and the people act right (verbally) and do encourage and support and aren't so combative and bullying is non existant. To Jennie, should this go down ....congrats:D, and I'm there with you. Absolutes don't appear to be a big deal for anyone except when they are absolutes that they deem important enough to stand up for. Hence everyone having their own ideas about what is absolutely wrong at all times. Yours aren't always the same as everyone else's and certainly everyone else's isn't always the same as yours.
Spark1111 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 That is sad. This thread is about giving support to OW whose life choices you consider morally wrong, but of course it is applicable to all categories: BS, WS, OM. Okay, well I don't find it sad at all. I can be supportive and respectful of the person while considering the morality...nah, forget morality... wisdom of their life choices, and I do not feel it hinders the advice or support offered here at all. It is no different than those who think a BS reconciling with a fWS is crazy not to divorce. In fact, I enjoy defending my life choices. I am confident about them, even amongst those who may disagree with me! Plus, are there other sites deemed more supportive? Where life choices may be less criticized? I'm know there are for all categories of BS, WS, OW/OM. I've visited them. At LS, I enjoy the diversity of perpective from all sides of the triangle.
OWoman Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 How can I be supportive of a person who is doing something I believe is wrong, and I know is going to hurt people? What can I do that would make an OW feel cared about and supported as a human being, while not condoning their choices and actions? Forgive me for dragging the thread back on topic, but I thought that this post of FoG's needed bumping and responding. FoG, the fact that you raise these questions (and the way you do) shows that you are reflective, sensitive and aware of the issues. This is also typical of your posts, and those of some others who are not OWs, nor fOWs, and who lack the direct experience of having been an OW... but who are nonetheless open-minded and compassionate enough to respond to the person at the end of the post instead of getting hung up on the circumstances. Back when I was younger and my BSTLs were greater, I used to counsell for a crisis counselling organisation that helped anyone in crisis. As a political activist, I have some pretty strong views on some things, and on occasion I'd find myself having to counsell someone whose views - and actions - were diametrically opposed to mine. It was difficult, but it was possible. You have to look beyond what the person represents to you, and see them as a person coming to you for support, advice or sometimes just a place to vent. Hearing someone tell me - in graphic detail - about how they'd beaten their wife again made me want to reach through the phone and strangle them, but instead, exploring with them how they felt, why they did it, and what they could do to prevent their doing it again was probably more effective (for them) and less likely to land me in prison It also was more likely to encourage them to continue to address their behaviour / issues, rather than driving them away and making them defensive and entrenching their behaviour. As the poster on the wall said, it's all about lending an EAR (Empathy, Authenticity and Respect).
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Okay, well I don't find it sad at all. I can be supportive and respectful of the person while considering the morality...nah, forget morality... wisdom of their life choices, and I do not feel it hinders the advice or support offered here at all. It is no different than those who think a BS reconciling with a fWS is crazy not to divorce. In fact, I enjoy defending my life choices. I am confident about them, even amongst those who may disagree with me! Plus, are there other sites deemed more supportive? Where life choices may be less criticized? I'm know there are for all categories of BS, WS, OW/OM. I've visited them. At LS, I enjoy the diversity of perpective from all sides of the triangle. Here, here. I will defend (and not change those choices)to the death. I like it here too. Not so much going on. I like the interactions, debates and the all out slugfests. :lmao:
OWoman Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 That is sad. This thread is about giving support to OW whose life choices you consider morally wrong, but of course it is applicable to all categories: BS, WS, OM. I've posted advice - hopefully supportive, but who knows how it was received - to married people, despite my views on M The sky didn't fall.
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 I've posted advice - hopefully supportive, but who knows how it was received - to married people, despite my views on M The sky didn't fall. Thing I have always found about your posts is that you are true to your beliefs. You don't waver, you don't justify and you don't whine when someone disagrees with your viewpoint. Maybe I didn't agree with them, do I think they were helpful, some definitely were no matter what side of the triangle you viewed things from. I do understand the situation that your stepchildren were dealing with...not good for any child. I respect a woman who goes to bat for a child. You are so right that not only do you not how your posts were received, it isn't your responsibility to figure out what each person perceives as and how to adjust your posts as to deal with their supposed sensitivities. And no the sky didn't fall.
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 Plus, are there other sites deemed more supportive? Where life choices may be less criticized? I'm know there are for all categories of BS, WS, OW/OM. I've visited them. gloryb is closed for new members. The only other OW site I know of has close to a dogma which you need to accept if you are to be comfortable posting there. So no, I at least have found no other sites.
OWoman Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 gloryb is closed for new members. The only other OW site I know of has close to a dogma which you need to accept if you are to be comfortable posting there. So no, I at least have found no other sites. As distinct from the dogma that the only positive outcome of an A is repentance and NC?
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 As distinct from the dogma that the only positive outcome of an A is repentance and NC? LOL At least you are allowed to disagree with that dogma here!
OWoman Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 LOL At least you are allowed to disagree with that dogma here! Interesting notion... being "allowed" to hold, or state, a view. I'd far rather state my views and land up with infractions (sorry, Tony ) than subscribe to a party line, whatever that might be.
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Interesting notion... being "allowed" to hold, or state, a view. I'd far rather state my views and land up with infractions (sorry, Tony ) than subscribe to a party line, whatever that might be. YES!:p:p
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 Interesting notion... being "allowed" to hold, or state, a view. I'd far rather state my views and land up with infractions (sorry, Tony ) than subscribe to a party line, whatever that might be. Well, if my opinions am more welcome here than on that other OW forum that says a lot!
harmfulsweetz Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 I think so long as people are being honest, and respectful (you can be straight shooting and be respectful) then there should be no issue. It is a supportive community, and I've said this on another thread somewhere-support isn't always the thing you want to hear, but the thing you need to hear. It's kind of like asking a group of friends their opinion on your wedding dress, there's the people who say it's lovely no matter what, those that suggest other options and there's nearly always the one that says it's terrible. Often, the one that is brutally honest is likely to be the one you listen to-why? They had the balls to say it what needed saying-even if it temporarily hurts your feelings. It's not intended to hurt you, but for you to make the right, best choice for you, it needed saying. I think the best way for people to post is to respect each other as human beings, this doesn't mean respecting their actions and choices. Not at all, but you can still respect the person. You know? I like reading advice that tries to get me to think of things from the other side, from all angles, because otherwise, what's the point in posting? If all you want is people to agree with your choices, and validate you, you can get that from a dog no questions asked. Hoping2heal made an excellent post-about the destructive elements of an A from all angles. JJ, right now, it's what you want, it benefits you, but aren't you stopping yourself from getting more? There's a vlogger on youtube, who has a couple of books out about dating and such like, and she uses an excellent saying-2 things can't occupy the same thing at the same time-that means that while you are satisfied in this situation, you can't attract perhaps a more healthy situation because you are so occupied with this one. If that makes sense. I don't think being an OW can ever be a long-term thing-he's either going to have to leave his W, or you're going to have to (one day) leave him. JMHO.
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Interesting notion... being "allowed" to hold, or state, a view. I'd far rather state my views and land up with infractions (sorry, Tony ) than subscribe to a party line, whatever that might be. You say that, but then it seems a lot of tattling to tony goes on here because people don't want to hear others truths. Tony doesn't just read and give infractions. He gives infractions when someone TATTLES. It is so silly as adults to run and tattle that someone hurt your feelings.
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 Hoping2heal made an excellent post-about the destructive elements of an A from all angles. JJ, right now, it's what you want, it benefits you, but aren't you stopping yourself from getting more? There's a vlogger on youtube, who has a couple of books out about dating and such like, and she uses an excellent saying-2 things can't occupy the same thing at the same time-that means that while you are satisfied in this situation, you can't attract perhaps a more healthy situation because you are so occupied with this one. If that makes sense. I don't think being an OW can ever be a long-term thing-he's either going to have to leave his W, or you're going to have to (one day) leave him. JMHO. If I step back and look at myself objectively now and five years ago, I can see that I am in a much better place emotionally today. My relationship with my MM has been and is good for me. I'd rather stay with a relationship I know is good for me than go chasing for a dream.
harmfulsweetz Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 If I step back and look at myself objectively now and five years ago, I can see that I am in a much better place emotionally today. My relationship with my MM has been and is good for me. I'd rather stay with a relationship I know is good for me than go chasing for a dream. That's fair enough and understandable. I suppose the other side is what about the BS? You could be in another relationship with someone available and still be happy, but you are choosing to occupy that space with someone who is taken. I'm not judging you, you govern your own life and make your own choices, but it seems a relatively selfish choice. I'm not saying, by any means, that you are selfish, but this is a selfish choice. It benefits you, and I know you may say things with your MM W aren't perfect, etc but that's for him to sort out. I just think you're choosing this option because it's easier than having to work to find a real relationship with real prospects.
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 That's fair enough and understandable. I suppose the other side is what about the BS? You could be in another relationship with someone available and still be happy, but you are choosing to occupy that space with someone who is taken. I'm not judging you, you govern your own life and make your own choices, but it seems a relatively selfish choice. I'm not saying, by any means, that you are selfish, but this is a selfish choice. It benefits you, and I know you may say things with your MM W aren't perfect, etc but that's for him to sort out. I just think you're choosing this option because it's easier than having to work to find a real relationship with real prospects. I agree. I wonder if you have been so hurt in the past that you are afraid to have a real relationship and a long distance one with a taken man is emotionally safer. you always have that built in excuse of well he is married.
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 That's fair enough and understandable. I suppose the other side is what about the BS? You could be in another relationship with someone available and still be happy, but you are choosing to occupy that space with someone who is taken. I'm not judging you, you govern your own life and make your own choices, but it seems a relatively selfish choice. I'm not saying, by any means, that you are selfish, but this is a selfish choice. It benefits you, and I know you may say things with your MM W aren't perfect, etc but that's for him to sort out. I just think you're choosing this option because it's easier than having to work to find a real relationship with real prospects. I agree. I wonder if you have been so hurt in the past that you are afraid to have a real relationship and a long distance one with a taken man is emotionally safer. you always have that built in excuse of well he is married. The two posts above are good examples of how whether to stay in the EMR or not is really the only support available on LS for OW choosing to stay in EMRs. Nobody can have missed that I am happy with my choice, yet the posts encouraging me to retry my decision are ceaselessly coming.
greengoddess Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 The two posts above are good examples of how whether to stay in the EMR or not is really the only support available on LS for OW choosing to stay in EMRs. Nobody can have missed that I am happy with my choice, yet the posts encouraging me to retry my decision are ceaselessly coming. Does the suggestion to delve deeper into why you are happy with a long distance relationship with an already taken man really hurt you? Why would it bother you to read something that may make you think about your situation? Is it a coping mechanism to not read comments such as these?
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 Does the suggestion to delve deeper into why you are happy with a long distance relationship with an already taken man really hurt you? Why would it bother you to read something that may make you think about your situation? Is it a coping mechanism to not read comments such as these? No, it certainly doesn't hurt me, I just fail to see the meaning thereof. My decision is made, so why waste your words on me? The topic of this thread is how to support OW who have already made a choice to stay in the EMR without violating your own personal values. I'm wondering if continuing to try to change the OW's decision is satisfying some need within the poster her-/himself?
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 The last couple of days I have been called "psychotic", "severely emotionally disturbed", "resident narcissistic OW", "delusional" to name a few examples. Can this be called support?
Citizen Erased Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 The last couple of days I have been called "psychotic", "severely emotionally disturbed", "resident narcissistic OW", "delusional" to name a few examples. Can this be called support? Ok, I don't agree with your viewpoint on some things...ok, most but seriously, psychotic? You personally will probably not receive much support from anyone other than other OW. You're unapologetic about your affair and from what I've seen you're pretty content with how things are. People don't get you cos it's not the norm. When new posters come on here, I personally believe that the anti-affair crowd are genuinely trying to help them, albeit in a "stop screwing a MM" kinda way. That's because they find affairs immoral and a lot of the women that are OW on here don't seem nearly as content with their situations as you. People get hurt and the others may just be trying to help them avoid it by getting out of what they perceive as an unhealthy relationship. You probably can't see it that way cos you don't see things how they do. I hope you reported those comments made to you. I know you probably have thicker skin than others after being around here for awhile but still.
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