Jane Deaux Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 my opinion... The internet has a MULTITUDE of different types of websites. And there are many out there where members do not use bashing and rude language to others. I personally believe that the hateful so called helpful criticism could be left out. Kind, stern, direct ect. is more than appropriate if you feel the need to be direct and strong minded, please go right ahead. But there is a difference in telling someone that their actions are selfish and not considerate of the W or H, ect. Calling them stupid or worse, and this is my opinion, because we do all have one, is not necessary to get your point across and can in fact do more damage to push them in the opposite direction of the advice you were trying to give. Much like a rebellious teenager if you will. So, I believe that what the OP was trying to get across was PLEASE feel FREE to have your very own opinion, but can we state those opinions without being hateful? And I do think she worded it in a way that was to be taken as a question of why can't we and NOT you better or else... But that is how I read it, personally.
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 JJ, I like your directness but the discussion is meandering, the answer to your question is no. Yes, I am starting to think it is that simple.
Spark1111 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) So toughen up, for cryin'outloud! I came here as a BS desperately trying to figure out if I even had the strength or courage to reconcile with my pleading WS! Know how many posters told me I was crazy? That once a cheater always a cheater? That how could I ever trust him again? I was crazy not to divorce him. That he was probably still talking or speaking with his OW, or even seeing her on the side? That he and his actions were only a ruse? That I must be insane to feel empathy for her? And when I finally spoke with her and discovered her shocking instability, that I must be a typical BS throwing stones at the OW? C'mon Jenny! Very, very few supported any choice I made for almost 2 years! Or my lifestyle, or my attempts to reconcile! Doesn't mean I did not receive some great advice, whether harsh or kind! Just take what you need and leave the rest. You know how the program works! PS: And I cannot fathom what makes an OW feel they are deserving of more respect, more compassion than a WS or BS! A remorseful WS who discovers they have only loved their spouse gets brickbats from OW/OM. (i.e. Annie1707, thomasb) A fWS who pines for his OW/OM but returned to his marriage for the sake of his kids, gets feather pillows from OW/OM, but brickbats from fBS. (Devil Inside) A fBS who divorces quickly and finds infidelity morally reprehensible in all it's forms, is accused of being rigid, nasty, and still angry. (i.e. Dexter, Bentnotbroken.) Some are reported for espousing their religious beliefs regarding infidelity. (Califnan? Bentnotbroken)) A reformed OW who is disgusted with her past behavior gets attacked often (jthorne). EVERYONE takes a turn in the hot seat. EVERY POSTER has their views challenged, their beliefs questioned, their actions analyzed. Not just OW/OM. Can't you see that???? Edited November 23, 2010 by Spark1111 spelling
pureinheart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 All the fora here on LS have the same dynamic. Rarely if ever is the entire group of responders to any OP united in giving "true respect and support." This one is no different. LoveShack is a microcosm of society. Like it or not, marriage still holds somewhat of a sacred place in our cultures. The existence of a person whose role is "Other Woman / Man" is like a hot button for many people. A lot of us wish and hope that the vows of marriage could create a relationship safe from the intrusion of outsiders. The morals of such people are outraged by the concept of an OW or OM as deserving of respect, support, sympathy, compassion, etc. Such a concept is threatening. I am sure there are places on the Internets where people involved in affairs with married partners get together without the intrusion of "haters" or otherwise offended or threatened people piping in. I'm afraid LS is not going to ever be one of them. This is not true, LS (OM/OW forum) used to be supportive no matter what the choice of the OM/OW/BS/WS was, to continue in the A, to end it, to stay with the WS, whatever. Certainly there would be 1 or 2 here and there that would irritate/judge the BS/WS/OM/OW, but they didn't stay long and were usually reported.
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 PS: And I cannot fathom what makes an OW feel they are deserving of more respect, more compassion than a WS or BS! A remorseful WS who discovers they have only loved their spouse gets brickbats from OW/OM. (i.e. Annie1707, thomasb) A fWS who pines for his OW/OM but returned to his marriage for the sake of his kids, gets feather pillows from OW/OM, but brickbats from fBS. (Devil Inside) A fBS who divorces quickly and finds infidelity morally reprehensible in all it's forms, is accused of being rigid, nasty, and still angry. (i.e. Dexter, Bentnotbroken.) Some are reported for espousing their religious beliefs regarding infidelity. (Califnan? Bentnotbroken)) A reformed OW who is disgusted with her past behavior gets attacked often (jthorne). EVERYONE takes a turn in the hot seat. EVERY POSTER has their views challenged, their beliefs questioned, their actions analyzed. Not just OW/OM. Can't you see that???? Thank you Spark. Got reported today. Starting to feel like a badge of honor.
turnstone Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Thank you Spark. Got reported today. Starting to feel like a badge of honor. Ditto! In answer to the OP - yes, of course. But it will feel like 'no' for those that can't accept that others may have differing opinions to their own.
pureinheart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Thanks, FOG, I was just considering how to get the thread back on track. How can people who are pro-marriage/anti-affair support OW who have chosen to stay in the EMR? First step is to accept their choice. Second step is... The comment to you by FOG was really cool, and the point of the thread. Jennie, what it boils down to for me is, I really don't care who it is or what their doing, if they're cool and carry themselves in a worthy manor (mature) I will support them no matter what. If they are rude and uncool and there is no reason (meaning they were not being provoked to be uncool, uncool is just a part of their personality), then I can't support that. To me it is completely immoral to demean and judge others harshly, talking down to them due to current or past circumstances because it is thought of to be wrong to "you" (the "you" in general). I think at times some are so used to this type of communication that they don't even realise what they are really saying. Not a one of us is above reproach... How do you support another when you do not agree with their choices? I think it depends on the closeness of the R you have with them (even online). If you absolutely are unable to support them (by support I mean not judging or your opinion of the perceived offense) due to your own convictions, religious affiliation, whatever, then I would suggest to say nothing. It's easy for me to find things to support others with (even if I don't agree with their lifestyle), there is always something encouraging to say to anyone at anytime. One poster brought up that they had not seen rude remarks or comments made to OM/OW. I have seen more than I want to and it is uncalled for. As for TJing, would it not be good to have an ongoing thread to take issues that come up in personal threads over to the onging thread, to hash out whatever needs to be discussed.
Fieldsofgold Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) I certainly get reported enough. Sometimes fairly, sometimes not so. I've been bashed by OW, and by BS who thought I was an OW! That was interesting! LOL! I believe in having compassion for other people. I believe in having concern and caring for other people. Even ones who are not like me. I believe affairs are wrong, and show a lack of compassion and respect for the BS and to varying degrees, the OW. In affairs, someone always gets hurt. How can I be supportive of a person who is doing something I believe is wrong, and I know is going to hurt people? What can I do that would make an OW feel cared about and supported as a human being, while not condoning their choices and actions? Edited to add what Jennie said: "How can people who are pro-marriage/anti-affair support OW who have chosen to stay in the EMR?" Is it possible? Edited November 23, 2010 by Fieldsofgold
turnstone Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 What can I do that would make an OW feel cared about and supported as a human being, while not condoning their choices and actions? Is it possible? I think it is and I feel (hope) that I've showed Silly Girl that, whilst not condoning her actions as an OW. However, Silly Girl has never, as far as I know, demonstrated disdain for the BS or arrogance about her situation, which makes it possible to want to show her support and understanding.
pureinheart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Ditto! In answer to the OP - yes, of course. But it will feel like 'no' for those that can't accept that others may have differing opinions to their own. Differing opinions is not the issue, respect is the issue. I think the "differing opinions is used by some as an excuse to be rude, also the usual, "well this is and open forum". Disrespect is disrespect, period. I'll have to go back and read what provoked such a statement as: PS: And I cannot fathom what makes an OW feel they are deserving of more respect, more compassion than a WS or BS! (Spark1111)...wow...
OpenBook Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Oh and just the fact that your "relationship" needs a support forum makes one wonder why you would want to be in it. Hear hear! I wonder the exact same thing when I read the threads over in the Marriage forum. My God the crap you people put up with in those relationships.
thomasb Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 You won't understand what it feels like to have cancer until you have it. Just like there is a lot of being an OW you will have no idea of until you have been one. You can read up all you want on cancer or extramarital relationships. Until you have been in that position you are missing vital information. This probably goes for OW who have been in a bad extramarital relationship as well. They do not know how it feels to be in a good one. I am not expecting people to agree with me. Just for people who read my posts to admit to themselves that people like me who have a positive experience of being in an extramarital relationship exist. Wow, you can't have it both ways. You say the betrayed knows little about this, and yet you know what goes on in mm's marriage! From long distance yet. Even as far as their marital bed. Just wow. No, really...
bentnotbroken Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Hear hear! I wonder the exact same thing when I read the threads over in the Marriage forum. My God the crap you people put up with in those relationships. LOL crap was one name I would call what I put up with.
BB07 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 If............some posters really feel that they aren't getting any support at all here and that the climate is too unfriendly there is always the option to create your own site. A domain name is cheap and the VBulletin software is around $200 bucks. I'm sure there are cheaper options for forum software if one wanted to search it out if $200 is more than someone wanted to spend. If someone was so inclined it wouldn't be an expensive undertaking.
pureinheart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 I am apparently. Because that was a suggestion, nothing else. Certainly not an attempt to censorship. Sometimes I feel LS posters have this really distorted filter they look through when they read my posts. I don't recognize what they say I said. That's why I am wondering if it is something wrong with my use of the English language? Jennie, for real, it's not you...I think it was page 8, my mind felt like a pretzel again. You make perfect sense, there is no motive hind the motive, it's straight up and straight forward with no control on any level. It is not uncool or controlling to suggest thsat people please say it right. Jennie, as God as my witness, it never used to be like this. You could post/start a thread on LS and feel good at the end of the day, or ordeal. A person could get support.
pureinheart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 If............some posters really feel that they aren't getting any support at all here and that the climate is too unfriendly there is always the option to create your own site. A domain name is cheap and the VBulletin software is around $200 bucks. I'm sure there are cheaper options for forum software if one wanted to search it out if $200 is more than someone wanted to spend. If someone was so inclined it wouldn't be an expensive undertaking. It depends on the size, a friend of mine wanted to start a ministry/forum and for a medium size forum you need a decent server (I think that is the terminology), that takes some priddy large bucks...ask Tony if you don't believe me.
pureinheart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Wow, you can't have it both ways. You say the betrayed knows little about this, and yet you know what goes on in mm's marriage! From long distance yet. Even as far as their marital bed. Just wow. No, really... I did... My exH was having many EMA's, I knew from over 3000mi away. ExDM said one time that from the time he met me he quit having sex with his W. His kids communicated that this was the truth...she told her kids about their sex life I guess. Yes really....it is possible
BB07 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 It depends on the size, a friend of mine wanted to start a ministry/forum and for a medium size forum you need a decent server (I think that is the terminology), that takes some priddy large bucks...ask Tony if you don't believe me. You can find a hosting service (they have the server) for less than 5 bucks a month. Your traffic goes up, you get a higher priced package, high volume yes you would have to pay more, but still it wouldn't break the bank. Very few people have their own server these days. I'm no expert but I've had a couple of web sites and I paid a monthly fee for a company to host them.
pureinheart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 ((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))Jennie, TJ Queen here:D, I am so sorry about the cancer (I an terrified of that word and hate it and can't believe I'm actually typing it...progress?) I have heard you communicate this before, although wanted to take the opportunity now to say that I am soooooo happy you beat it! I did too, this is hard for me to type BTW...27 cervical cancer in early stages...had a hysterectomy, it was a 100% cure. I did have to deal with many consequences of having a hysterectomy so young, but ...oh well, right!
NoIDidn't Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Ahh, the topic of this thread comes up like clockwork every couple of months. And every now and then, from the same posters as last time. I don't think posting respectfully has anything to do with respecting a person's choices. I think it has every thing to do with not being nasty, condescending, and arrogant in response. And yes, even OWs need to learn that particular mode of operation as well. Its one thing to leave your opinion and have others disagree with it. Disagreement is one thing, having your opinion torn apart is another - especially when a poster attempts to do it line by line. I've seen many an OW do this, even in this thread. Now, I'm not saying that because "they" have done it, that it means that "we" can do it too. I'm saying those that live in glass houses should not throw stones. And on the cultural thing, I am from a VERY DIRECT culture and it was getting me reported by the very people who say they are from a direct culture. Go figure. I guess some cultures can dish it, but can't take it. LOL. It is my hope that everyone can find a way to get along here. Even when we inevitably disagree.
Spark1111 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 If............some posters really feel that they aren't getting any support at all here and that the climate is too unfriendly there is always the option to create your own site. A domain name is cheap and the VBulletin software is around $200 bucks. I'm sure there are cheaper options for forum software if one wanted to search it out if $200 is more than someone wanted to spend. If someone was so inclined it wouldn't be an expensive undertaking. Great point BB! Weren't you frequently challenged, taking quite a few brickbats if I remember correctly, from many posters who asked how could you not know your xMM was not trully separated? Did you feel your life choice was not respected enough to receive some really wonderful advice here? ....Just wondering....
Spark1111 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Differing opinions is not the issue, respect is the issue. I think the "differing opinions is used by some as an excuse to be rude, also the usual, "well this is and open forum". Disrespect is disrespect, period. I'll have to go back and read what provoked such a statement as: PS: And I cannot fathom what makes an OW feel they are deserving of more respect, more compassion than a WS or BS! (Spark1111)...wow... Here's what provoked it: Rude can be rude, of course. But that is a higly subjective opinion. Rude and disrespectful to me may be different than rude or disrespectful to you! The subject of the thread is respecting the life choices of another to be fully qualified to give advice. The majority are saying BUNK! to that. BS, WS, and OW/OM ALL get challenged! Rudely or not, they do! And they are ALL asked to defend or explain the choices they are making or have made in the past and present!
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 If............some posters really feel that they aren't getting any support at all here and that the climate is too unfriendly there is always the option to create your own site. A domain name is cheap and the VBulletin software is around $200 bucks. I'm sure there are cheaper options for forum software if one wanted to search it out if $200 is more than someone wanted to spend. If someone was so inclined it wouldn't be an expensive undertaking. I have been offered to participate as administrator in such a site under making. We'll see if it becomes reality.
Spark1111 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 I certainly get reported enough. Sometimes fairly, sometimes not so. I've been bashed by OW, and by BS who thought I was an OW! That was interesting! LOL! I believe in having compassion for other people. I believe in having concern and caring for other people. Even ones who are not like me. I believe affairs are wrong, and show a lack of compassion and respect for the BS and to varying degrees, the OW. In affairs, someone always gets hurt. How can I be supportive of a person who is doing something I believe is wrong, and I know is going to hurt people? What can I do that would make an OW feel cared about and supported as a human being, while not condoning their choices and actions? Edited to add what Jennie said: "How can people who are pro-marriage/anti-affair support OW who have chosen to stay in the EMR?" Is it possible? Of course it is possible! I am not a drug addict, yet I can have compassion and empathy for the pain experienced by one who is a drug addict. But that doesn't mean I would ever condone them staying a drug addict. So is my advice less valuable because I have never been a drug addict? Maybe. And that is up to them to decide. But EVERY opinion offered can be something to think about, and I get to choose what is helpful to me or not.
Author jennie-jennie Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 Ahh' date=' the topic of this thread comes up like clockwork every couple of months. And every now and then, from the same posters as last time.[/quote'] It seems some posters are confusing the topic of this thread with that of earlier threads. This thread originated from a wish by FOG to reflect on how to give support to OW choosing to stay in EMRs without violating one's own values of being anti-affair.
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