BB07 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I just thought of something else that goes along with my last post. After talking to the bs in my situation and how poor xmm belly ached about how he was just a paycheck to her, the bs later told me that he had tried to get her to quit her job and he would take care of her. Men speak with forked tongues uh. ;)
Snowflower Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 On the other side of that......if I had enlightened myself by visiting places like LS years ago, I would think that I would have saw how common some of the lies that come out of their mouth really are and I'd like to think that I wouldn't have found myself in the position of being an unknowing OW down the line. Hindsight is 20/20 uh. Oh, I know what you mean...if I had found a place like LS during my husband's affair, a little bit of reading here would have probably showed me the handwriting on the wall. I could kick myself now for how obvious it was that my H was having an affair. It's why I think I will never again that be dumb to believe all the BS that spewed out of his mouth during that time. Live and learn, huh?!
donnamaybe Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Something just occurred to me. You know where else I've heard the phrase "amazing connection" used ad nauseum? Those reality "find me a husband/wife on TV" shows.
Spark1111 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Spark......I say this with the greatest respect because I do have tons of respect for you. I also was told by xmm that he was not much more than a paycheck to bs. (Must be a common line of bs uh) Anyway at the time, yes I believed it. My point is.........I believed it, so I'm sure the OW in your situation believed it as well. No I'm not stupid nor an idiot, but when we love someone we want and need to believe them, this goes for any relationship. On the other side of that......if I had enlightened myself by visiting places like LS years ago, I would think that I would have saw how common some of the lies that come out of their mouth really are and I'd like to think that I wouldn't have found myself in the position of being an unknowing OW down the line. Hindsight is 20/20 uh. Yes, my fWS says the same thing...that reading LS, plus lots of other literature we had read together, made him realize the ordinariness, the pattern affairs take. Nothing unique there..... Plus, there were many things she told him that do not/did not ring true/ are not true. So is it lying? Confusion? Delusion? Maybe all of the above. It's all a part of the affair recipe, IMHO.
NoIDidn't Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 A couple I've known well for 25 years just divorced after 30+ yrs of marriage. No one else involved. Very sad. The wife had never paid a bill or held a bank account, didn't understand paying taxes at source, or how to arrange to get the guttering fixed. She ran a beautiful home and cooked like a demon but had never done those things. She's living with her daughter 'temporarily' but I think it will be an extended stay because the poor woman is like a rabbit in headlights every single day. SG are you suggesting that this one case alone proves 2sure's premise is wrong? A lot of women are competent at running the house but allowed their Hs to handle the bills, taxes, repairs and things. That doesn't at all mean that the women are damsels in distress. It means that they held up their end of the bargain while expecting their Hs to hold up theirs. I'm sure these same men, in most cases not all, wouldn't know where the dishes go, how to wash their own clothes, or where the key to the valuables is. This is partnership - each knowing their role and sticking to it as long as it works. For some it works out, for others it doesn't.
Spark1111 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I just thought of something else that goes along with my last post. After talking to the bs in my situation and how poor xmm belly ached about how he was just a paycheck to her, the bs later told me that he had tried to get her to quit her job and he would take care of her. Men speak with forked tongues uh. ;) BB, I have the greatest respect for you too! I think the question, 3 years out from DDAY should have been for (him) and her: What made you vulnerable to the delusion of an amazing attraction? Love, schmove. Love is married within 1 year! You have to be vulnerable to a MM crying about his unappreciative wife. The MM has to be vulnerable to being told how wonderful he is by the OW. Because on my best day, if you told me your spouse didn't appreciate you, I'd hand you the name of a good MC I know and shut down that conversation right quick. It's so tacky for people to bellyache about their spouses! And if you told me more than two times how wonderful I was, and we had known each other a short while, I would grow uncomfortable and a little sceptical of your honesty too! See what I mean? I don't think it's lying intentionally; I believe is confusion or delusion based on vulnerability... a sort of fill-in-the-enotional-need-blanks.
NoIDidn't Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Hahaha! I thought that a common affair dynamic was when the MM appeared to be "rescuing" the damsel in distress (the OW) because big bad wifey never appreciated him and he felt unloved. Now it is really because the wife is too dependent? Makes no sense and reminds me of my husband in his affair when he alternately told me and the OW, "you only wanted my paycheck." And then would turn around and tell me and again the OW, "that I never needed him. I was too independent and focused on furthering my career." Wait, which is it? Was I too dependent (wanting his paycheck) or too career focused? I don't know how a MM can keep all his delusions straight! This post made me chuckle. My H and I had the same conversation. It seems that he wanted me to stay home to raise our children, but when I started doing it after leaving a job that paid more than his it meant all I wanted him for was "his paycheck". LOL. But, yes, he then told the OW that I was too independent and never had time for him and his feelings anymore. Poor girl was probably still spinning after those tales. LOL. I'm glad he can laugh at himself now. Its typical when we've worked ourselves up into a frenzy of negative thinking and have found someone (OP) that is willing to feed it for their own benefit. I know some will disagree with me saying that OW "wanted my life", but she did. She didn't want exactly what I had - a cheating H. But she did want what he was selling her - "my W doesn't work because I provide for her and I would do the same for you once she's out of the picture", so to speak. She wanted to prove to him that she would appreciate him for his efforts - something I was not doing admittedly (because he wasn't meeting my needs either, mind you). She had to work to support herself and her child. I can only imagine how enticing the offer had to be from her position. (Sorry, I know this was supposed to be funny)
Snowflower Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 This post made me chuckle. My H and I had the same conversation. It seems that he wanted me to stay home to raise our children, but when I started doing it after leaving a job that paid more than his it meant all I wanted him for was "his paycheck". LOL. But, yes, he then told the OW that I was too independent and never had time for him and his feelings anymore. Poor girl was probably still spinning after those tales. LOL. I'm glad he can laugh at himself now. Its typical when we've worked ourselves up into a frenzy of negative thinking and have found someone (OP) that is willing to feed it for their own benefit. I know some will disagree with me saying that OW "wanted my life", but she did. She didn't want exactly what I had - a cheating H. But she did want what he was selling her - "my W doesn't work because I provide for her and I would do the same for you once she's out of the picture", so to speak. She wanted to prove to him that she would appreciate him for his efforts - something I was not doing admittedly (because he wasn't meeting my needs either, mind you). She had to work to support herself and her child. I can only imagine how enticing the offer had to be from her position. (Sorry, I know this was supposed to be funny) Oh, don't worry...the fact that I and I think you, NID and Spark, too, can laugh at the sheer ridiculousness of the affair situation shows healing. I know for me, the fact that I can laugh in some ways at what happened during the most painful thing I have experienced is a good thing. I am quite serious by nature. As to the bolded part of the post above...yes, there has to be negative thinking as part of the affair. My H had suddenly begun to hang out with a slightly different group of work friends shortly before his affair. Of course, I was naive and didn't see the warning signs even before things started with the OW. But I remember him relaying a story to me about how he was talking to a work buddy about the benefits of being single vs. being married. The work buddy was single and the way my husband was describing being married was very unflattering. Now, I know guys like to talk big. But I remember at the time and even more so as I looked back on it, the warning bell was ringing for me back then. It was only a few months later that he embarked on an affair. My H had made a new group of friends (males and females) who liked to b*tch about their marriages when they would go out together. And yes, the OW was a part of this extended group. Very dangerous territory for him indeed. Okay, now I'm sad.
BB07 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Oh, I know what you mean...if I had found a place like LS during my husband's affair, a little bit of reading here would have probably showed me the handwriting on the wall. I could kick myself now for how obvious it was that my H was having an affair. It's why I think I will never again that be dumb to believe all the BS that spewed out of his mouth during that time. Live and learn, huh?! Learn the hard way.......in my case. :) Until I found LS I hadn't really considered that one of the main reasons that my husband left me was because of someone else and that happened 15 years ago. Between that and my more recent relationships, I sound like quite the ditz. :cool:
BB07 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 BB, I have the greatest respect for you too! Ahhh thanks, I consider that a big compliment! I think the question, 3 years out from DDAY should have been for (him) and her: What made you vulnerable to the delusion of an amazing attraction? Love, schmove. Love is married within 1 year! You have to be vulnerable to a MM crying about his unappreciative wife. The MM has to be vulnerable to being told how wonderful he is by the OW. Guilty.......as charged. Because on my best day, if you told me your spouse didn't appreciate you, I'd hand you the name of a good MC I know and shut down that conversation right quick. It's so tacky for people to bellyache about their spouses! Yes it is.......and no he didn't start out doing that, at first it was he married her for all the wrong reasons, actually he told me this BEFORE they got married. See he set the stage, before anything happened. Then followed it up a few months later with the lie about he had moved out. Yuck! And if you told me more than two times how wonderful I was, and we had known each other a short while, I would grow uncomfortable and a little sceptical of your honesty too! See what I mean? I don't think it's lying intentionally; I believe is confusion or delusion based on vulnerability... a sort of fill-in-the-enotional-need-blanks. I'm afraid that I will never get over being so cynical and untrustworthy of my own judgment now. That sucks, but I'm scared. Maybe in time.
Spark1111 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 I'm afraid that I will never get over being so cynical and untrustworthy of my own judgment now. That sucks, but I'm scared. Maybe in time. Don't worry....it will come back. It just takes time is right! Being an affair survivor, I, too am quite a bit cynical, but it's okay. It is there to keep me safe. Judge a book by it's intent and it's actions. When I hear people complaining about their spouse OR their SO, my first thought now is: I guess YOU don't DO relationships very well, do you? Because it is EASY to complain; much harder to fix it. Before I'd feel pity....today, my reality is different. And people who are happy within themself, and within their relationships....have a lot of friends, family and joy in their lives. They aren't aligning themselves with single people searching for that "elusive one" or crawling through bars looking for the next hook-up, or complaining to vulnerable single moms how unappreciated they are at home.
seren Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 The one that got me came in fact from the OW, it was - I don't believe he doesn't want to speak to me, you are stopping him ... hmm no I have asked him to speak to you and then the real kicker - said with absolute conviction, I know him. Hmm again, I had been with him for over 20 years and the A took me by suprise and I thought I really knew him. 8 months of snatched moments and sext messages and she knew him!! Not saying this to disparage the OW, but it is so often said that I really wonder who really knows what about who.
BB07 Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Not saying this to disparage the OW, but it is so often said that I really wonder who really knows what about who. Probably no one during the affair and I'd take it further and say he doesn't even know himself.
Silly_Girl Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 SG are you suggesting that this one case alone proves 2sure's premise is wrong? Er.... did I say that? A lot of women are competent at running the house but allowed their Hs to handle the bills, taxes, repairs and things. That doesn't at all mean that the women are damsels in distress. It means that they held up their end of the bargain while expecting their Hs to hold up theirs. I'm sure these same men, in most cases not all, wouldn't know where the dishes go, how to wash their own clothes, or where the key to the valuables is. This is partnership - each knowing their role and sticking to it as long as it works. For some it works out, for others it doesn't. This particular couple are quite large in my life at the moment, and seeing what 2sure wrote really stood out for me. It's just an anecdote, not trying to disprove the theory of gravity. By NO means would I ever wish to suggest that all women are damsels in distress. And the man in this marriage actually could do the cooking, cleaning, house repairs, gardening, fixing the cars, and sorting the finances etc. He enjoyed ironing, working flexi-time to take his grandkids to and from school etc. He's a capable guy.
bentnotbroken Posted December 1, 2010 Posted December 1, 2010 Perfect SF! I worked two jobs, paid all the bills, moved kids in and out of college, got a promotion, managed his and my extended family obligations, and we had sex twice a week during his affair! But she was told I was only in it for the paycheck, did not love nor appreciate him, and he would leave when he had met his financial goals! (I guess the youngest going to college had come and gone, so that excuse no longer worked?) Delusional to say the least. More like a pity party for two. I didn't work two jobs that paid, but I was a SAHM for years then took a job that allowed me to be at home when the kids weren't in school. He didn't want his children in daycare because they should be raised by a parent:rolleyes: Yet he told ow I was lazy and unambitious and using him for....you guessed it. His paycheck. If he paid me for the yard work, automotive(yes oil changing and tuneups), the shopping, the chauffeuring, the ironing, cooking, taking care of his family and mine..whew...I am tired just remembering. I like to say he had his head so far up his arse, he couldn't see what I was doing. :lmao:
turnstone Posted December 2, 2010 Posted December 2, 2010 I said this before, but I guess it got deleted because I quoted a post that apparently broke the T and Cs and was removed. My ex husband, after D Day, told me "I never meant to hurt you". If that wasn't bad enough, he then went on to say "I can prove I never meant to hurt you, because I never wanted you to find out"
donnamaybe Posted December 2, 2010 Posted December 2, 2010 I like to say he had his head so far up his arse, he couldn't see what I was doing. :lmao:A friend of mine uses this line: "I'd like to be able to see things from your point of view, but I can't get my head that far up my arse."
Spark1111 Posted December 2, 2010 Posted December 2, 2010 I said this before, but I guess it got deleted because I quoted a post that apparently broke the T and Cs and was removed. My ex husband, after D Day, told me "I never meant to hurt you". If that wasn't bad enough, he then went on to say "I can prove I never meant to hurt you, because I never wanted you to find out" Yes, I heard that too!
worlybear Posted December 2, 2010 Posted December 2, 2010 Yes, I heard that too! Hey me too! Perhaps there's a handbook called "100 excuses to tell your wife when you're caught?" If not we could all probably club together and write one!
femina incredula Posted December 4, 2010 Posted December 4, 2010 How about... You just have to trust me.
wheelwright Posted December 4, 2010 Posted December 4, 2010 The one that got me came in fact from the OW, it was - I don't believe he doesn't want to speak to me, you are stopping him ... hmm no I have asked him to speak to you and then the real kicker - said with absolute conviction, I know him. Hmm again, I had been with him for over 20 years and the A took me by suprise and I thought I really knew him. 8 months of snatched moments and sext messages and she knew him!! Not saying this to disparage the OW, but it is so often said that I really wonder who really knows what about who. I wonder what is the general BS view on why the WS would not want to speak to the OP? They have a reason, right?
bentnotbroken Posted December 4, 2010 Posted December 4, 2010 I wonder what is the general BS view on why the WS would not want to speak to the OP? They have a reason, right? I only have my opinion. They won't speak to because they are ashamed of what they have done or they really want to ease the pain that they have caused the BS(not talking to ow would have been one of my requirements)or they are callous enough for ow not to really mean anything.
wheelwright Posted December 4, 2010 Posted December 4, 2010 I only have my opinion. They won't speak to because they are ashamed of what they have done or they really want to ease the pain that they have caused the BS(not talking to ow would have been one of my requirements)or they are callous enough for ow not to really mean anything. Yes I thought that too. Is there any more possible?
fooled once Posted December 6, 2010 Posted December 6, 2010 The one that got me came in fact from the OW, it was - I don't believe he doesn't want to speak to me, you are stopping him ... hmm no I have asked him to speak to you and then the real kicker - said with absolute conviction, I know him. Hmm again, I had been with him for over 20 years and the A took me by suprise and I thought I really knew him. 8 months of snatched moments and sext messages and she knew him!! Not saying this to disparage the OW, but it is so often said that I really wonder who really knows what about who. I agree. I am always perplexed when OW claim quite proudly that THEY know the MM so much better than the wife of 5, 10, 15, 20+ years. As if the intermittent contact, visits, sexting mean they know so much more about them. Darn it, that's right, they spend HOURS on the phone or texting each other. As for women not being competent to handle bills and a house -- many older couples had an arrangement where the man took care of certain responsibilities, and the women took care of others. Kinda like a.....partnership My H deals with the cars and the bills. I do the inside house stuff. Works for us. It was my exH who had to learn how to do things when I divorced him...he was rather clueless. Today, I am happy to be a kept woman I have no desire to get the oil changed, to put in new spark plugs or put gas in my car. H does all that In turn, I do the laundry and shopping. Each COUPLE is different in how they divvy up household chores. But I wonder how these MM are keeping up their ends of the household chores if they are on the phone for HOURS with the mistress or running off for a quickie. Wife is probably doing those for him.
wheelwright Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 The one that got me came in fact from the OW, it was - I don't believe he doesn't want to speak to me, you are stopping him ... hmm no I have asked him to speak to you and then the real kicker - said with absolute conviction, I know him. Hmm again, I had been with him for over 20 years and the A took me by suprise and I thought I really knew him. 8 months of snatched moments and sext messages and she knew him!! Not saying this to disparage the OW, but it is so often said that I really wonder who really knows what about who. Just chose to respond to this cos I've been wondering about this very thing. When xMOM's W confronted me in the street after DDAy, one of the things that clearly bothered her was when I wanted to say he cared about her and his family. I said there was something important he had said to me for you. She said 'How dare you presume to know my H better than I do' I found this surprising at the time, but not in retrospest. There are things I know that she doesn't. I don't doubt that the things she knows after 16 yrs M go deeper. I knew his dreams and transformational potential and his shame become new. She knew his reality and life love path. Because she was that.
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