puke alert..."amazing connection"

[anne1707]

I found this a rather funny/odd remark. I also do not ever drink if my husband is not present. It is not because I don't particularly trust myself, but rather because I know that drinking lowers one's inhibitions. I don't think it's wise for anyone to put themselves into situations which have the potential of causing problems, and to me, drinking when not with your partner does that. Why would you want to take a chance of endangering something precious - your marriage - the emotional well-being of your partner - just because it's sociable to drink. I like to mingle, but only include alcohol in my mingling when with my husband.

 

I would think that to be even more true for someone who did, in the past, have an affair that was in any way fueled by alcohol. JMO...

 

And in turn I find your remark (and Thomas's) odd. In the immediate aftermath of my affair, alcohol was very much an issue (more so because of how emotional I could become especially if on an unavoidable works do with the ex-OM stirring sh%t there ).

 

However now my H would be ashamed of himself if he felt that that the only way he could trust me is if I never drank when he was not present. He would not want that level of control over me and after 2+ years into recovery, he would see that as a failing marriage.

[bentnotbroken]

And in turn I find your remark (and Thomas's) odd. In the immediate aftermath of my affair, alcohol was very much an issue (more so because of how emotional I could become especially if on an unavoidable works do with the ex-OM stirring sh%t there ).

 

However now my H would be ashamed of himself if he felt that that the only way he could trust me is if I never drank when he was not present. He would not want that level of control over me and after 2+ years into recovery, he would see that as a failing marriage.

 

 

I think the point he was trying to make was that he felt as if drinking only with his wife shows a level of commitment he has chosen to make to her and their marriage. I don't know if you are aware of the aspects of a Christian covenant marriage, but some of the things Thomas has said in different posts are some of the tenets used to build a strong relationship. Both parties are on board with the things that are based on God's vision for marriage. It isn't about making one person a warden over the other, but a mutual agreement that is also beneficial for both parties and in compliance with what God wants for marriage.

[anne1707]

I think the point he was trying to make was that he felt as if drinking only with his wife shows a level of commitment he has chosen to make to her and their marriage. I don't know if you are aware of the aspects of a Christian covenant marriage, but some of the things Thomas has said in different posts are some of the tenets used to build a strong relationship. Both parties are on board with the things that are based on God's vision for marriage. It isn't about making one person a warden over the other, but a mutual agreement that is also beneficial for both parties and in compliance with what God wants for marriage.

 

On that basis, I can understand. I am not religious therefore I took a different interpretation on these posts (which I am also sure you can understand if looked at from this side of the fence)

[bentnotbroken]

On that basis, I can understand. I am not religious therefore I took a different interpretation on these posts (which I am also sure you can understand if looked at from this side of the fence)

 

 

Definately.

[whichwayisup]

I don't have a car, I bike everywhere. :laugh:

 

I can't believe you are so dependent on cars in the US (I presume you live there?).

 

Marriage, cars and religion... I'm fine without all those things.

 

If your MM divorced his wife and BEGGED you to marry him, said if you want be mine we must get married, what would you do? Lose him out of your life because you don't believe in marriage and what it represents? Just wondering.

 

JJ, respect the fact that others DO have marriages, cars and are religious. you want people to respect your choices in life, respect theirs too. Goes both ways.

[thomasb]

I think the point he was trying to make was that he felt as if drinking only with his wife shows a level of commitment he has chosen to make to her and their marriage. I don't know if you are aware of the aspects of a Christian covenant marriage, but some of the things Thomas has said in different posts are some of the tenets used to build a strong relationship. Both parties are on board with the things that are based on God's vision for marriage. It isn't about making one person a warden over the other, but a mutual agreement that is also beneficial for both parties and in compliance with what God wants for marriage.

 

 

We both entered into a covenant with each other, renewed our marriage and our vows to each other and our Lord. i never knew how weak I was as a .person until then

[jennie-jennie]

If your MM divorced his wife and BEGGED you to marry him, said if you want be mine we must get married, what would you do? Lose him out of your life because you don't believe in marriage and what it represents? Just wondering.

 

You are aware that there are people who do exactly this. My MM's philosophy teacher and his wife-to-be split up, because he was fundamentally against religion and thus could not accept being married at church, while his wife-to-be could not embrace a non-church wedding. Sometimes principles are too important to break.

 

To me, I could be married, or I could not, it doesn't really matter. I would have to make d@mned sure though that my MM understands that a marriage to me is based solely on love, not duty, not vows. Since my strong belief is that you can not promise love.

 

JJ, respect the fact that others DO have marriages, cars and are religious. you want people to respect your choices in life, respect theirs too. Goes both ways.

You are reading too much into my words again. I never said I didn't respect the fact that others do have marriages, cars and are religious. I was just amazed by the dependency on cars in the US.

 

I am amazed that the view on marriage, cars and religion is so different in the US than in my country. That does not mean that I do not respect the right of others to make different choices than mine. I don't have to agree with them, but I respect their right to make them.

[OWoman]

If your MM divorced his wife and BEGGED you to marry him, said if you want be mine we must get married, what would you do? Lose him out of your life because you don't believe in marriage and what it represents? Just wondering.

 

This is not as hypothetical as it may seem - it's exactly what faced my H and I. The only way we could be together was by getting M, so I had to swallow my objections and bow to the power of the state. It happens.

 

It doesn't change my views, but it does make fuel my inner anarchism...

[silktricks]

And in turn I find your remark (and Thomas's) odd. In the immediate aftermath of my affair, alcohol was very much an issue (more so because of how emotional I could become especially if on an unavoidable works do with the ex-OM stirring sh%t there ).

 

However now my H would be ashamed of himself if he felt that that the only way he could trust me is if I never drank when he was not present. He would not want that level of control over me and after 2+ years into recovery, he would see that as a failing marriage.

 

I'm not sure why you find my comment odd. My husband did not "require" that I not drink if he was not present, and as you may know, I was not the one who had an affair - he was. It is my choice that I not drink unless he is there. As I said in my prior post, I feel that because alcohol lowers inhibitions that it is foolish/foolhardy to take any steps that could endanger either my marriage or my husbands feelings. That is my choice. Not one that was forced upon me, or even requested of me.

[jthorne]

I think the point he was trying to make was that he felt as if drinking only with his wife shows a level of commitment he has chosen to make to her and their marriage. I don't know if you are aware of the aspects of a Christian covenant marriage, but some of the things Thomas has said in different posts are some of the tenets used to build a strong relationship. Both parties are on board with the things that are based on God's vision for marriage. It isn't about making one person a warden over the other, but a mutual agreement that is also beneficial for both parties and in compliance with what God wants for marriage.

I agree, but I wanted to add that it has nothing to do with "wardenship" and everything to do with respect for the spouse and the marriage.

 

Thomas may choose to not drink out of his W's presence not because he doesn't trust himself, or her him, but because he has respect for her and their marriage. Same reason I always show my H any communication I receive from past relationships. It's not about worrying about something going on behind his back, it's about respect.

 

We both entered into a covenant with each other, renewed our marriage and our vows to each other and our Lord. i never knew how weak I was as a .person until then

Agreed.

[thomasb]

I think most people in committed relationships would 'get' the concept of protecting what you hold dear. IE:whether it is your marriage, your children, whatever you care about, and are committed to.

[Silly_Girl]

I get it now thank you, jthorne, thomasb. It's a nod to the history; a consequence of your actions.

[pureinheart]

You are reading too much into my words again. I never said I didn't respect the fact that others do have marriages, cars and are religious. I was just amazed by the dependency on cars in the US.

 

I am amazed that the view on marriage, cars and religion is so different in the US than in my country. That does not mean that I do not respect the right of others to make different choices than mine. I don't have to agree with them, but I respect their right to make them.

 

Jennie...it is pathetic, the US would be a h-e-double L toothpicks of a lot healthier. Where I live, everything is very spread out, so it would be impossible to function without a car....but, I got my licence suspended back in 93 for 1 year...(I was having a very bad year that year) I didn't drive once during that year and did live through it:eek:.

 

I'm glad you bike everywhere....I should, we all bought bikes this summer

[donnamaybe]

Research shows that if renewed contact is made with a past love, within 30 days the relationship will be back at the same level as it left off, within 60 days there will be physical love.

 

The force of rekindled love is strong. If you allow yourself that first renewed contact, control is lost. It just happens.

And what does this research say as far as how long it will take for the contact to become a full time monogomous R?

[donnamaybe]

One of my favorite lines is "My MM NEVER has sex with his wife. I know it's true because he told me so."

[bentnotbroken]

One of my favorite lines is "My MM NEVER has sex with his wife. I know it's true because he told me so."

 

 

Yup, reminds me of the talking donkey from Shrek.

[2sure]

I love when the MM describes his wife of 10 or 20 years as an emotionally and financially incompetent damsel in distress...I mean, how many women do you know in real life under the age of 65 or 70...regardless of whether they have worked or not...could simply just not navigate without her husband?? I dont know any...and neither does he.

 

So, when he says he has to stay because he has always been the protector, the nurturer, the provider...thats a load.

 

When his "incompetent" wife catches him the first thing she says is: Get out of my sight you flaming idiot, I dont need you or this crap. Thats why they have to do so much groveling. He isnt a hero. he hasnt managed his own life in years and doesnt want to start now.

[jthorne]

I get it now thank you, jthorne, thomasb. It's a nod to the history; a consequence of your actions.

Errr, no. thomasb can speak for himself, but it's exactly what I said it was: respect for my husband. My H tells me whenever an old girlfriend writes or calls; it's not a big deal. It's simply respectful and has nothing to do with consequences.

[Silly_Girl]

I love when the MM describes his wife of 10 or 20 years as an emotionally and financially incompetent damsel in distress...I mean, how many women do you know in real life under the age of 65 or 70...regardless of whether they have worked or not...could simply just not navigate without her husband?? I dont know any...and neither does he.

 

A couple I've known well for 25 years just divorced after 30+ yrs of marriage. No one else involved. Very sad. The wife had never paid a bill or held a bank account, didn't understand paying taxes at source, or how to arrange to get the guttering fixed. She ran a beautiful home and cooked like a demon but had never done those things. She's living with her daughter 'temporarily' but I think it will be an extended stay because the poor woman is like a rabbit in headlights every single day.

[Snowflower]

I love when the MM describes his wife of 10 or 20 years as an emotionally and financially incompetent damsel in distress...I mean, how many women do you know in real life under the age of 65 or 70...regardless of whether they have worked or not...could simply just not navigate without her husband?? I dont know any...and neither does he.

 

So, when he says he has to stay because he has always been the protector, the nurturer, the provider...thats a load.

 

Hahaha! I thought that a common affair dynamic was when the MM appeared to be "rescuing" the damsel in distress (the OW) because big bad wifey never appreciated him and he felt unloved.

 

 

Now it is really because the wife is too dependent? Makes no sense and reminds me of my husband in his affair when he alternately told me and the OW, "you only wanted my paycheck." And then would turn around and tell me and again the OW, "that I never needed him. I was too independent and focused on furthering my career."

 

Wait, which is it? Was I too dependent (wanting his paycheck) or too career focused?

 

I don't know how a MM can keep all his delusions straight!

 

 

When his "incompetent" wife catches him the first thing she says is: Get out of my sight you flaming idiot, I dont need you or this crap. Thats why they have to do so much groveling. He isnt a hero. he hasnt managed his own life in years and doesnt want to start now.

 

Yep, and he is likely really only talking about his own incompetence when he is bad mouthing his BW. He is the one who is flitting from relationship to relationship so that he doesn't have to be alone.

[thomasb]

I get it now thank you, jthorne, thomasb. It's a nod to the history; a consequence of your actions.

 

 

Not quite all, Silly Girl. It also has do do with my own self respect and self image. I never wish to face myself in the mirror again feeling like I did about myself then. Protecting my family and myself is one of the things that make me feel good in my own skin.

 

 

Jenny, Since the first major grocery store is 82 miles from one of our homes, you wouldn't be biking it here. Oh, and it was 12 degrees below zero last week too. That is about 40 below with wind chill factor. The other is still about 15 miles from town.

[NoLongerSad]

A couple I've known well for 25 years just divorced after 30+ yrs of marriage. No one else involved. Very sad. The wife had never paid a bill or held a bank account, didn't understand paying taxes at source, or how to arrange to get the guttering fixed. She ran a beautiful home and cooked like a demon but had never done those things. She's living with her daughter 'temporarily' but I think it will be an extended stay because the poor woman is like a rabbit in headlights every single day.

 

 

Fortunately her ex husband shouldn't have much problem hiring a replacement maid and cook. I'm sure an employment service will be able to help him out with that.

[Spark1111]

I love when the MM describes his wife of 10 or 20 years as an emotionally and financially incompetent damsel in distress...I mean, how many women do you know in real life under the age of 65 or 70...regardless of whether they have worked or not...could simply just not navigate without her husband?? I dont know any...and neither does he.

 

So, when he says he has to stay because he has always been the protector, the nurturer, the provider...thats a load.

 

When his "incompetent" wife catches him the first thing she says is: Get out of my sight you flaming idiot, I dont need you or this crap. Thats why they have to do so much groveling. He isnt a hero. he hasnt managed his own life in years and doesnt want to start now.

 

Love It!

 

And the last thing he seems to want is his wife waltzing out the door with all that financial and social independence and finding a better man! One who can actually pick up his socks and dry cleaning!

[Spark1111]

Hahaha! I thought that a common affair dynamic was when the MM appeared to be "rescuing" the damsel in distress (the OW) because big bad wifey never appreciated him and he felt unloved.

 

 

Now it is really because the wife is too dependent? Makes no sense and reminds me of my husband in his affair when he alternately told me and the OW, "you only wanted my paycheck." And then would turn around and tell me and again the OW, "that I never needed him. I was too independent and focused on furthering my career."

 

Wait, which is it? Was I too dependent (wanting his paycheck) or too career focused?

 

I don't know how a MM can keep all his delusions straight!

 

 

 

Yep, and he is likely really only talking about his own incompetence when he is bad mouthing his BW. He is the one who is flitting from relationship to relationship so that he doesn't have to be alone.

 

Perfect SF!

 

I worked two jobs, paid all the bills, moved kids in and out of college, got a promotion, managed his and my extended family obligations, and we had sex twice a week during his affair!

 

But she was told I was only in it for the paycheck, did not love nor appreciate him, and he would leave when he had met his financial goals! (I guess the youngest going to college had come and gone, so that excuse no longer worked?)

 

Delusional to say the least. More like a pity party for two.

[BB07]

Perfect SF!

 

I worked two jobs, paid all the bills, moved kids in and out of college, got a promotion, managed his and my extended family obligations, and we had sex twice a week during his affair!

 

But she was told I was only in it for the paycheck, did not love nor appreciate him, and he would leave when he had met his financial goals! (I guess the youngest going to college had come and gone, so that excuse no longer worked?)

 

Delusional to say the least. More like a pity party for two.

 

Spark......I say this with the greatest respect because I do have tons of respect for you.

 

I also was told by xmm that he was not much more than a paycheck to bs. (Must be a common line of bs uh) Anyway at the time, yes I believed it. My point is.........I believed it, so I'm sure the OW in your situation believed it as well. No I'm not stupid nor an idiot, but when we love someone we want and need to believe them, this goes for any relationship.

On the other side of that......if I had enlightened myself by visiting places like LS years ago, I would think that I would have saw how common some of the lies that come out of their mouth really are and I'd like to think that I wouldn't have found myself in the position of being an unknowing OW down the line. Hindsight is 20/20 uh.