puke alert..."amazing connection"

[thomasb]

Thomasb, more than once I've voiced concerns for you. You are very much in the shadow of your affair, I believe from your posts. You still seem very much in the grip of it and I wonder how that can derive you a happy life.

 

If you don't like alcohol, don't drink... ever, but it sounds like you don't drink because you do not trust yourself to be in control of your actions and look to your wife as some sort of behaviour warden.

 

 

I didn't say I don't drink. I can down a six pack with the best of them. I said I no longer will allow myself to be in circumstances where I would put my marriage, or my soul, in jeopardy.

And I don't feel I denigrate anybody. Her choices were hers. I will not take responsibility for them. Just as I won't ask her, my wife or anyone else to take the blame for my own. Its called manning up.

[bentnotbroken]

I didn't say I don't drink. I can down a six pack with the best of them. I said I no longer will allow myself to be in circumstances where I would put my marriage, or my soul, in jeopardy.

And I don't feel I denigrate anybody. Her choices were hers. I will not take responsibility for them. Just as I won't ask her, my wife or anyone else to take the blame for my own. Its called manning up.

 

 

The assumption that your happiness depends on how you feel about your past is....well comical. If one doesn't understand a relationship with God they would assume that all happiness comes from external sources instead of the relationship with God. They assume that owning your choices(and only your as God commands)some how renders you "stuck". When in fact the exact opposite is true. You have been freed to live life without the chains of needing to be constantly put a spin on the past. It is what it is. It is the past. God has wiped those things from your slate. You will reap whatever the consequences are but you will not be bound by those actions.

[Spark1111]

I have to say, although in essence I agree with some of Thomas b's principles, I feel the same about the way he talks about his exAP, as if being derogatory towards her somehow elevates him. It shouldn't be his exAP he discusses, she is irrelevant, it should be himself. That's what I find 'pukey'. I guess that analysing her allows him to not have to focus on his own lack of morality and it doesn't, to me, come off as genuine.

 

If you read his posts, she turned into a threatening bunny boiler who stalked his young children at the bus stop well after DDAY, frightening the hell out of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If that was my fAP, I would hate him/her too!

[Silly_Girl]

Nope. She demeaned herself. Her choice. I demeaned myself the second I took her up on her proposition. My only excuse was being a very drunk 26yr old with raging hormones. I no longer drink without my wife present. And not because she forbids it. But because of my determination to have respect for my marriage. The only one with any 'grip' on me is my lovely wife.

 

I didn't say I don't drink. I can down a six pack with the best of them. I said I no longer will allow myself to be in circumstances where I would put my marriage, or my soul, in jeopardy.

And I don't feel I denigrate anybody. Her choices were hers. I will not take responsibility for them. Just as I won't ask her, my wife or anyone else to take the blame for my own. Its called manning up.

 

Thomasb, it's been donkeys years since you messed up. I don't get the impression you've forgiven yourself, or that you respect yourself, or trust yourself. And there are many posts of yours that lead me to that conclusion. And I find it sad.

 

If you can't forgive yourself then I don't see, deep down, how your wife will have done either. I'm not digging, your posts genuinely make me feel that something is very much up, for you. Apologies if that offends you.

[NoLongerSad]

Thomasb, it's been donkeys years since you messed up. I don't get the impression you've forgiven yourself, or that you respect yourself, or trust yourself. And there are many posts of yours that lead me to that conclusion. And I find it sad.

 

If you can't forgive yourself then I don't see, deep down, how your wife will have done either. I'm not digging, your posts genuinely make me feel that something is very much up, for you. Apologies if that offends you.

 

 

On the contrary, thomasb has a very healthy attitude. What he has done, at least by the attitude he has expressed here at LS, is to have fully accepted responsibility for his actions. I'm not surprised that others who lack the self-understanding that thomasb seems to have, may not understand his message.

[thomasb]

No offence. And I certainly do have a great deal more self respect now than I did then. I actually like myself and feel that I have a quality life now based on honesty, integrity and decency. I wish that for every one here.

My wife trusts me. She and I have a marvelous relationship now. We have had many pitfalls in the last 16 years to live through. The affair was one of the lesser ones. We don't even talk about it anymore unless infidelity is brought up on t.v. or by a conversation socially. Having survived raising children, the death of our beloved oldest son, my wives' breast cancer, the destruction of a home fire, etc. Truly, now it is just an interesting discussion topic for me in my spare time.

[Spark1111]

Thomasb, it's been donkeys years since you messed up. I don't get the impression you've forgiven yourself, or that you respect yourself, or trust yourself. And there are many posts of yours that lead me to that conclusion. And I find it sad.

 

If you can't forgive yourself then I don't see, deep down, how your wife will have done either. I'm not digging, your posts genuinely make me feel that something is very much up, for you. Apologies if that offends you.

 

SG, I do not believe self-forgiveness = no regrets for many.

 

Once the genie is let out of the bottle, you cannot stuff it back in.

 

It is forever a part of one's past; cannot be erased from one's life story, and will always be a part of one's legacy.

 

For some, the memory of a love affair may be worth it depending on the outcome. For others, lust is not.

 

My fWS was not only remorseful for his actions, but had a difficult time with forgiving himself until he understood the "whys" of it all through therapy.

 

The more he learned, the less he liked himself for his actions. The "why" had nothing to do with me, despite what he told himself and his AP.

 

Does he forgive himself today? Yes, finally. Does he regret what he did? For the rest of his life.

 

Like I said, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, no matter how one may want to.

[silktricks]

Thomasb, more than once I've voiced concerns for you. You are very much in the shadow of your affair, I believe from your posts. You still seem very much in the grip of it and I wonder how that can derive you a happy life.

 

If you don't like alcohol, don't drink... ever, but it sounds like you don't drink because you do not trust yourself to be in control of your actions and look to your wife as some sort of behaviour warden.

 

I found this a rather funny/odd remark. I also do not ever drink if my husband is not present. It is not because I don't particularly trust myself, but rather because I know that drinking lowers one's inhibitions. I don't think it's wise for anyone to put themselves into situations which have the potential of causing problems, and to me, drinking when not with your partner does that. Why would you want to take a chance of endangering something precious - your marriage - the emotional well-being of your partner - just because it's sociable to drink. I like to mingle, but only include alcohol in my mingling when with my husband.

 

I would think that to be even more true for someone who did, in the past, have an affair that was in any way fueled by alcohol. JMO...

[thomasb]

Silktricks, Exactly!

[Silly_Girl]

SG, I do not believe self-forgiveness = no regrets for many.

 

Once the genie is let out of the bottle, you cannot stuff it back in.

 

It is forever a part of one's past; cannot be erased from one's life story, and will always be a part of one's legacy.

 

For some, the memory of a love affair may be worth it depending on the outcome. For others, lust is not.

 

My fWS was not only remorseful for his actions, but had a difficult time with forgiving himself until he understood the "whys" of it all through therapy.

 

The more he learned, the less he liked himself for his actions. The "why" had nothing to do with me, despite what he told himself and his AP.

 

Does he forgive himself today? Yes, finally. Does he regret what he did? For the rest of his life.

 

Like I said, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, no matter how one may want to.

 

Agree on the difference between forgiveness and regret. Agree totally. But thomasb has stated he still does nice deeds now, all these years later, to show gratitude to his wife for her forgiveness. It surprised me. And I see that feeling in a lot of his posts. Yet he's of the opinion his marriage is recovered. So for me I would have thought 'sorry' or 'thank you for sticking by me' gestures would eventually die out. They could be replaced with 'I love you' or 'just 'cos!' gestures perhaps. But thomas's posts leave me' feeling as though he's actively making amends and is somehow the inferior party when I'd expect him to be able to stand tall and be respected/loved for the man he is TODAY.

[Silly_Girl]

I found this a rather funny/odd remark. I also do not ever drink if my husband is not present. It is not because I don't particularly trust myself, but rather because I know that drinking lowers one's inhibitions. I don't think it's wise for anyone to put themselves into situations which have the potential of causing problems, and to me, drinking when not with your partner does that. Why would you want to take a chance of endangering something precious - your marriage - the emotional well-being of your partner - just because it's sociable to drink. I like to mingle, but only include alcohol in my mingling when with my husband.

 

I would think that to be even more true for someone who did, in the past, have an affair that was in any way fueled by alcohol. JMO...

 

I have never ever heard anyone before say they only drink if their SO is present. That's why it seems so alien and read to me as though it was a self-control issue. I've never been so drunk that I accidentally have sex with someone (and I'm accomplished at getting pie-eyed!!) so it sounded bizarre, in my world.

[thomasb]

Agree on the difference between forgiveness and regret. Agree totally. But thomasb has stated he still does nice deeds now, all these years later, to show gratitude to his wife for her forgiveness. It surprised me. And I see that feeling in a lot of his posts. Yet he's of the opinion his marriage is recovered. So for me I would have thought 'sorry' or 'thank you for sticking by me' gestures would eventually die out. They could be replaced with 'I love you' or 'just 'cos!' gestures perhaps. But thomas's posts leave me' feeling as though he's actively making amends and is somehow the inferior party when I'd expect him to be able to stand tall and be respected/loved for the man he is TODAY.

 

 

I don't think that I will ever measure up to the amazing, beautiful, generous, giving wonderful soul which is my wife. Not because of my affair. But because of the person she is. Yes, she is my better half. I never will deserve her. Her love and gentle dignity is an inspiration to everyone around her. I am lucky and inspired to have her by my side and in my life. Funny thing is... she feels the same about me.

Now, lets quit this thread jack, and get back to the subject at hand.

[Snowflower]

I have never ever heard anyone before say they only drink if their SO is present. That's why it seems so alien and read to me as though it was a self-control issue. I've never been so drunk that I accidentally have sex with someone (and I'm accomplished at getting pie-eyed!!) so it sounded bizarre, in my world.

 

Alcohol lowers inhibitions and impairs judgment. In the wrong situation with the wrong people around, someone could put their marriage in jeopardy.

 

I can understand why some people would limit their alcohol intake when their spouse isn't present. Particularly if infidelity was an issue in the past. My fWH does it out of respect to me.

 

Not sure why that is considered weird?

[Silly_Girl]

Alcohol lowers inhibitions and impairs judgment. In the wrong situation with the wrong people around, someone could put their marriage in jeopardy.

 

I can understand why some people would limit their alcohol intake when their spouse isn't present. Particularly if infidelity was an issue in the past. My fWH does it out of respect to me.

 

Not sure why that is considered weird?

 

As I explained, it was ALIEN to me because I have never heard anyone say anything similar. It stood out. I didn't say it was wrong.

[silktricks]

I have never ever heard anyone before say they only drink if their SO is present. That's why it seems so alien and read to me as though it was a self-control issue. I've never been so drunk that I accidentally have sex with someone (and I'm accomplished at getting pie-eyed!!) so it sounded bizarre, in my world.

 

:) I've never "accidentally" had sex with anyone either, but for me, not drinking when my SO is absent is not to prevent "accidental" sex, but rather because I know that loose boundaries can create potential problems. I (personally) have extremely strict boundaries. Again, not because I don't trust myself. I believe that it's much less difficult to stop a bad situation from developing than it is to fix or undo a situation once it has developed.

 

For example, I have unintentionally (in the past) been in a situation where the other person was making assumptions about the future that I had zero interest in. I wasn't aware of the fact that he had those thoughts, I thought we were just buddies (no NOT f*ck-buddies), just friends.... Anyway, it wasn't until he was badly hurt, my then SO was badly hurt, and I lost a good friend that I realized that my actions did in some measure validate his belief. What I thought and felt didn't matter as much as how my actions could be perceived by an outside party. Soooo, the end result of that particular unhappy incident led me to create very strict boundaries for myself. I try to not do things that could create unfortunate situations.

 

There is also the fact that lowering ones boundaries can lead to affairs. Don't have to, but can. In my previous example, had I been in a shaky situation with my SO at the time that my "buddy" wanted to change our relationship, possibly something could have happened that would have hurt my SO even worse.

 

I'm not saying that my way is the only way, but it is my way. I fully understand people who have strict boundaries, as apparently ThomasB has, but I also understand that not all people do what I do.

[thomasb]

It is much the same by not allowing a child molester to be alone with your children. Or a convicted bank robber to have the key to the vault. You wouldn't leave an alcoholic locked in a room with a bottle of Jack, now would you? A devoted husband or wife does not allow themselves to be in the position to develop a scenario of infidelity. It is about personal boundaries.

[silktricks]

It is much the same by not allowing a child molester to be alone with your children. Or a convicted bank robber to have the key to the vault. You wouldn't leave an alcoholic locked in a room with a bottle of Jack, now would you? A devoted husband or wife does not allow themselves to be in the position to develop a scenario of infidelity. It is about personal boundaries.

 

Well, I gotta say that I don't buy your comparisons - not even a little. The first three: child molester, bank robber and alcoholic are not exactly on a par with having strict personal boundaries IMO - not unless the person who has the boundaries is a sex addict and has instituted the boundaries for that reason. IMO, having personal boundaries is more along the lines of balancing your check book. Something you do to keep your life more regulated, more easily managed, and in the end happier for all concerned. Your examples are a little over the top for me.

[NoLongerSad]

I have never ever heard anyone before say they only drink if their SO is present. That's why it seems so alien and read to me as though it was a self-control issue. I've never been so drunk that I accidentally have sex with someone (and I'm accomplished at getting pie-eyed!!) so it sounded bizarre, in my world.

 

If your SO is not present and you're drinking, then who drives you home?

[Hazyhead]

If you read his posts, she turned into a threatening bunny boiler who stalked his young children at the bus stop well after DDAY, frightening the hell out of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If that was my fAP, I would hate him/her too!

 

Sorry, one more about the tj! What I said earlier I did in a far harsher manner than I intended. My point wasn't that he shouldn't hate his xAP (although I wasn't aware of all that stalky biz), just that maybe he should focus on himself more, in that he does often come across to me as overly critical of her... if that's possible and she should make no difference to him now. BUT, if she is still a threat then I understand it. If not... let her go thomasb - leave her in the past and just be.

[Hazyhead]

Maybe a new thread on alcohol and it's inhibition pummeller?

[thomasb]

Sorry, one more about the tj! What I said earlier I did in a far harsher manner than I intended. My point wasn't that he shouldn't hate his xAP (although I wasn't aware of all that stalky biz), just that maybe he should focus on himself more, in that he does often come across to me as overly critical of her... if that's possible and she should make no difference to him now. BUT, if she is still a threat then I understand it. If not... let her go thomasb - leave her in the past and just be.

 

 

 

Actually, Hazy... until I found this board, I hadn't thought about her at all for years, unless like I said there was something on t.v. or in casual conversation came up. And then it is only with a sick feeling of regret and remorse in the pit of your stomach. She is years ago and far away from our lives and who we are today... thank the good Lord.

[Snowflower]

Maybe a new thread on alcohol and it's inhibition pummeller?

 

That would be an interesting thread...if I recall correctly, there have been a few of these in the past. It's a painful subject for me though.

[Snowflower]

Actually, Hazy... until I found this board, I hadn't thought about her at all for years, unless like I said there was something on t.v. or in casual conversation came up. And then it is only with a sick feeling of regret and remorse in the pit of your stomach. She is years ago and far away from our lives and who we are today... thank the good Lord.

 

This is so interesting to me because I think my husband is much the same way as you describe. Unless I bring it up, I think the OW and the A are far from his mind. And the more time that goes by, the more it is like this. Why do I think this? Because of his reaction when I do bring it up...like it's a forgotten and unpleasant subject for him. It's almost like it is out of context.

 

I wish I could be as good at forgetting. I think women and men are just wired differently in this respect.

[jennie-jennie]

If your SO is not present and you're drinking, then who drives you home?

 

I don't have a car, I bike everywhere. :laugh:

 

I can't believe you are so dependent on cars in the US (I presume you live there?).

 

Marriage, cars and religion... I'm fine without all those things.

[jj33]

It is much the same by not allowing a child molester to be alone with your children. Or a convicted bank robber to have the key to the vault. You wouldn't leave an alcoholic locked in a room with a bottle of Jack, now would you? A devoted husband or wife does not allow themselves to be in the position to develop a scenario of infidelity. It is about personal boundaries.

 

Thomas I dont agree with your analogies but I do agree with your premise. A devoted H or W does not put themselves in a situation where they allow an A to develop or when they see the danger signs they back off.

 

Its one of the reasons I dont buy it when people say there was nothing wrong with the marriage. Theres clearly a problem if one spouse thinks fidelity is a basic premise of the marital union and the other spouse thinks its an optional part of the contract. That may be a reflection on the WS but it is also IMHO very clearly a sign that there is a problem in the marriage.

 

Whenever two people have fundamentally different views on what is acceptable within the bounds of a relationship, or think it doesnt count if they dont get caught, then to me, there is a fundamental problem in the marriage.

 

I understand the feeling that there was a special connection but someone who is committed to being a monogamous spouse is not going to let that develop into a PA.