Women want rich guys, guys want beautiful women. Where is love in all this?

[carhill]

A question for the men:

 

Why are looks so important to you? Why is a girl who is very pretty but has a boring personality more attractive than a woman who is just a little pretty but has a great personality?

 

In a long-term marital partner, physical appearance, as long as the lady is healthy, is minimally important to me, and always has been. I've never gone for 'eye candy', dating all the way back to adolescence. Even these days, when I'm wandering around the world, I catch myself looking at someone and wondering why she's caught my eye when objectively she's not 'all that' and the objectively 'model' women pass right by. No clue on that one. There have been a few 'beauties' in my past, but no consistency to that. They appeared beautiful to me because I loved them and it was others who commented on their more obvious beauty.

 

OK, you can now move on to responses from 'normal' men

 

 

Topically, as an outlier to the stereotype in one regard (beauty), I also appear to be an outlier in the other, though not rich, rather comfortable, and have been all my life. I've never noted a substantial interest from women wrt that kind of security. They always seemed to go for the more 'flashy' gentlemen who wore their security on their wrist or in the car they drove. Like I've said in other posts, just a different path. At this point in life, I'm definitely not complaining. It all works out

[jimbo]

In a long-term marital partner, physical appearance, as long as the lady is healthy, is minimally important to me, and always has been.

 

Define what you mean as "healthy" to you, please.

[musemaj11]

Ah, I see. So you accept that that can be the case with women and money as well, then?

Of course, I have a huge interest in anthropology and I know that even female monkeys will only mate with male monkeys who can offer her the most resources. 'Gold-digging' is ingrained within all female primates and there is an obvious survival reason for it.

 

That a healthy woman should consider a mate's financial security but she should put love above it?

Its not that a woman should consider a mate's financial security, but its just that she does and will always do as long as women remain the ones giving birth and nothing can be done about it. Its instinctive.

 

But unlike monkeys, we humans have higher intelligence and I dont think we should put our biological impulses above everything else. Just like just because we are hungry, we cant simply kill the guy next to us so we can have his food.

 

But as I said, perhaps Im naive for thinking that way.

Edited November 21, 2010 by musemaj11

[AverageJoe]

A question for the men:

 

Why are looks so important to you? Why is a girl who is very pretty but has a boring personality more attractive than a woman who is just a little pretty but has a great personality?

 

I genuinely am curious.

 

Simply put its much like Johan said.

 

For me, I just love beautiful women like every other man. When I lay down with a beautiful women and that perfect body, wow there is nothing like it. Personality is the last thing on my mind.

[Els]

Of course, I have a huge interest in anthropology and I know that even female monkeys will only mate with male monkeys who can offer her the most resources. 'Gold-digging' is ingrained within all female primates and there is an obvious survival reason for it.

 

 

Its not that a woman should consider a mate's financial security, but its just that she does and will always do as long as women remain the ones giving birth and nothing can be done about it. Its instinctive.

 

But unlike monkeys, we humans have higher intelligence and I dont think we should put our biological impulses above everything else. Just like just because we are hungry, we cant simply kill the guy next to us so we can have his food.

 

But as I said, perhaps Im naive for thinking that way.

 

I agree. As I said before, that defines the relationship I am in now.

[carhill]

Define what you mean as "healthy" to you, please.

No current or significant past medical problems. As an example, my exW was medically considered obese but she was healthy when we met, had no significant medical issues during the ten years we were married and continues to be healthy today at nearly 52 years old. As a point of reference, when we met, she was 5'1" and weighed 180lbs.

 

Hope that helps

 

Edited to add, for comparison, another past partner was similarly healthy, medically 'normal' at 5'6" and 130lbs and was actually a doctor herself.

Edited November 21, 2010 by carhill

[AverageJoe]

As a point of reference, when we met, she was 5'1" and weighed 180lbs

 

I dont know how you did it Carhill.

[carhill]

I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you

 

 

Seriously, when two people love each other, and I was at least sure about my part, you can make nearly anything work. The at least three men she's been with since separating from me don't seem to mind. It is what it is. We all define wealth and beauty in our own unique ways.

[GoodOnPaper]

A question for the men:

 

Why are looks so important to you? Why is a girl who is very pretty but has a boring personality more attractive than a woman who is just a little pretty but has a great personality?

 

I genuinely am curious.

 

For me, there would be three factors to consider:

 

1. With which girl will the sex be better? (I think we all assume that it would be with the better-looking partner.)

 

2. With which girl would I receive or feel the most validation?

 

3. With which girl would I feel the most connection and experience the greatest intimacy?

 

Factor #1 is always there -- kind of like background noise -- so it's really factor #2 or #3 that tip the scales. When I was young, I really needed the validation -- if I could attract someone who was considered physically attractive by most people, then I was OK even if I wasn't the stereotypical aggressive alpha type. I never got that validation, but now, in mid-life, I realize that intimacy trumps everything -- it's rough if you feel you can't let your guard down at any time. Needless to say, if I could go back 20 years, I would take a very different approach to things.

[EasyHeart]

A question for the men:

 

Why are looks so important to you? Why is a girl who is very pretty but has a boring personality more attractive than a woman who is just a little pretty but has a great personality?

 

I genuinely am curious.

It's a balancing act. The prettier a woman is, the less concerned I am about her personality. And the prettier she is, the more willing I am to take a gamble on a short-term relationship. But a beautiful woman who is dumb as a post won't hold my interest for long (which may be fine if I don't care that it doesn't last long). It's also changed as I've gotten older. When I was in my teens and probably most of my 20s, all I really cared about was how pretty a girl was, because I wasn't thinking about marriage or relationships. As I got older, personality and compatibility became important. But I still never dated anyone who I didn't think was beautiful. If I'm not physically attracted to a woman, then I don't want to date her. That's the difference between a girlfriend/lover/wife and everyone else; I want to have sex with the former, but not the latter. I assume women feel the same way.

 

(I also think physical attractiveness is subjective. I've dated women who took my breath away and later found out that my friends thought she was "meh". And many of my friends date/marry women who they think are beautiful that I wouldn't look at twice. We all have our own opinions about beauty.)

 

Overall, I think it's silly to say that attraction between romantic partners is all one thing or all another. It's a combination of appearance, personality, values, intelligence, lifestyle, etc.

[Hopeful30]

I honestly believe that in a world where you need money to be stable, and where beauty is becoming more seldom, love isn't important anymore.

 

You can't hate the person of course, but I don't think people fall in love anymore. We fall inlove with our first serious relationship partner, because it's all new to us, and we get attached etc. But after that it's all about compatibility. Can you make a life together? Do you get along?

 

How many times do we love someone that we can't really build a life with? Or who has qualities that we hate, and you have so many problems in the relationship that you leave them for it?

 

Love doesn't fix anything, nor is it enough. That's why these days most people look to be with someone who fits. Personally I agree with that, because I always end up loving men that aren't good for me, and I am unhappy, even if I love them or am loved by them. When I date guys that I dont necessarily love but who are compatible with me, I am happier because I don't have the problems in the relationship. And if we happen to fight, it doesn't hurt as much because that deep emotion isn't there.

 

I think 85% of us settle, because let's face it, not everyone ends up with their dream person. And those who wait often end up alone. That's what I think.

[LittleTiger]

So this study was way, way off base?

 

What I actually said was that you can't generalise from a study like this or make assumptions about most people.

 

However, I do actually agree that in biological terms men want better looking women and women want a man who can provide for her and her offspring. Good looks suggest better health and certain physical charactaristics suggest higher fertility, in both men and women, and going back to the early days of humans, a woman needed a man who could take care of her.

 

The thing is, human beings have evolved, society has evolved. The vast majority of us are healthy enough to produce offspring regardless of how beautiful we are and these days, many women have great careers and can take care of themselves.

 

The original question in the thread was actually about love. We can't deny our biology and say that men don't aspire to get a beautiful woman or that life wouldn't be a damn site easier for a woman if she could marry a multi-millionaire BUT the vast majority of us want love and companionship above all else.

 

If beauty and wealth were of paramount importance then only the beautiful and the wealthy would have life partners and all the wealthy men would have affairs as soon as their women were past the first flush of youth.

 

Genuine love exists, whether you choose to believe it or not. Most of us are evolved human beings who value other people for deeper qualities than beauty or money.

[Eeyore79]

I once dumped a boyfriend who was a millionaire - he was a pain in the ass and was totally full of himself. I actually dumped him in order to date a teacher, who obviously had less money, but who had much more in common with me and seemed more caring.

 

Having said that, I still wouldn't want to date a guy who was unemployed or in an unskilled job. So I guess to a certain extent I do look for guys with a minimum status, i.e. a good education and a professional job. The teacher was still an educated and employed man, even though he wasn't as wealthy as the millionaire. But my point is that I didn't simply go for the richest man - other criteria such as personality also influenced my decision of who to date.

 

When I think about it, I guess I just don't want to "date down" - I don't want a guy who earns significantly less money than me or is in a less skilled career than my own. I don't require him to be better than me, I just need him to be roughly equal so I can respect him and not have to carry him financially. I think a lot of men feel the same - they might want to bang the hot chicks, but won't marry them because they don't want to carry them financially. This is why you usually see male doctors marrying reasonably attractive female doctors/lawyers etc, not hot strippers or escorts.

[johan]

Why did you dump the teacher?

[ascendotum]

I have known 2 guys that were teachers and both have told me that they have at times told women they did something else for a profession and were certain it helped them hook up with the women because of it (of course it did not end in a LTR) or noticed the greater level of interest in them because of lying about their job. For a guy, I don't know if being a teacher downgrades you, for many women or not though. I don't think they are statistically more single.

I have lied about my job at times when out in a club/pub for the hell of it, and it definitely had a positive effect on the woman's level of interest, though its hardly a magic protocol for success.

Where I live, not so long ago a magazine published a list of of the most desired professions by women in a mate, and the first 3 spots from memory were actually tradesmen.

[TwilightSky]

To attempt to answer the OP's original question, I mean I think it's obvious the brain is full of conflicting desires. I'm sure (most) men want love eventually at some point in their lives, but their sex drives will at times override that urge for more immediate gratification. In short, there are lesser desires and greater desires, and of course these urges can change their importance level depending on the circumstances.

 

I just think (romantic) love is a pleasant, probable side-effect to being with someone you are attracted to, and not necessarily an entirely conscious goal for people in general. IMO, there is something you want based off of societal pressure, and something you truly want and will actually make you happy. Lastly, I want to add that humans have evolved, but have devolved in other ways. Not sure in what ways that is relevant as I am in a bit of a rushed thought process right now.

 

I could be way off base, but that is how I see things.

Edited November 21, 2010 by TwilightSky

[musemaj11]

When I think about it, I guess I just don't want to "date down" - I don't want a guy who earns significantly less money than me or is in a less skilled career than my own. I don't require him to be better than me, I just need him to be roughly equal so I can respect him and not have to carry him financially. I think a lot of men feel the same - they might want to bang the hot chicks, but won't marry them because they don't want to carry them financially. This is why you usually see male doctors marrying reasonably attractive female doctors/lawyers etc, not hot strippers or escorts.

The only reason a man would refuse to be in a serious relationship with an attractive woman is A)If she had an incompatible personality B)If she were too dumb.

 

A woman's career is of some value to men, but it is a very little value because men dont expect to be taken care of financially in the first place. In fact, generally men expect a woman to be a liability, someone he will be responsible for.

Edited November 21, 2010 by musemaj11

[Eeyore79]

Why did you dump the teacher?

He was messing around with another girl behind my back. I guess there were also other women who didn't care about him not having a high powered job

 

Where I live, not so long ago a magazine published a list of of the most desired professions by women in a mate, and the first 3 spots from memory were actually tradesmen.

If I met a guy who was a tradesman, my first thought would be "He would be handy around the house". I guess that's because I (and probably other women too) have this nest-building instinct

 

A woman's career is of some value to men, but it is a very little value because men dont expect to be taken care of financially in the first place. In fact, generally men expect a woman to be a liability, someone he will be responsible for.

A guy could marry a woman with virtually no income and have to carry her financially, or he could marry a woman with a decent career and thereby virtually double their household income. Most men expect their wives to work, and there are plenty of attractive women who also have good jobs; if a guy is in a position to pick and choose, it stands to reason he'd choose a woman who has other things to offer as well as good looks.

[musemaj11]

A guy could marry a woman with virtually no income and have to carry her financially, or he could marry a woman with a decent career and thereby virtually double their household income. Most men expect their wives to work, and there are plenty of attractive women who also have good jobs; if a guy is in a position to pick and choose, it stands to reason he'd choose a woman who has other things to offer as well as good looks.

Ya but that is a no-brainer logic.

 

Anyone would take all if he/she could take all. But most people cant. It has to be one or the other.

[zengirl]

I disagree that men are okay with women being a liability, in general, though a woman's earning power -- in many relationships -- is less sure than a man's throughout the marriage if they plan to have kids, unless the guy wants to be the more primary caregiver.

 

Personally, I'm proud to be able to support myself comfortably. That said, I presume my partner will carry the burden throughout a portion of the marriage if we have kids since I'd want to spend a considerable amount of time with my young children. One of the things I like about my field (Education) is that I can work comfortably as they approach school age (even preschool, since I believe it's a valuable experience) and still have plenty of time with them. I don't think that's uncommon. I do have a friend who is a SAHD (works freelance from home though---he's a writer), which is totally cool---he's an awesome Dad, and his wife is a fantastically successful attorney who does most of the supporting. I think the key is just to find something that works for both parties as they work as a team.

 

Most of the fellows I know definitely have some desire to provide for their families, but they don't want women who are dead weight. They want women with dreams, careers, education, and self-sufficiency, as well as beauty. The thing is, they are also educated, self-sufficient, talented, attractive, and awesome themselves.

 

A guy could marry a woman with virtually no income and have to carry her financially, or he could marry a woman with a decent career and thereby virtually double their household income. Most men expect their wives to work, and there are plenty of attractive women who also have good jobs; if a guy is in a position to pick and choose, it stands to reason he'd choose a woman who has other things to offer as well as good looks.

 

I once dumped a boyfriend who was a millionaire - he was a pain in the ass and was totally full of himself. I actually dumped him in order to date a teacher, who obviously had less money, but who had much more in common with me and seemed more caring.

 

Having said that, I still wouldn't want to date a guy who was unemployed or in an unskilled job. So I guess to a certain extent I do look for guys with a minimum status, i.e. a good education and a professional job. The teacher was still an educated and employed man, even though he wasn't as wealthy as the millionaire. But my point is that I didn't simply go for the richest man - other criteria such as personality also influenced my decision of who to date.

 

When I think about it, I guess I just don't want to "date down" - I don't want a guy who earns significantly less money than me or is in a less skilled career than my own. I don't require him to be better than me, I just need him to be roughly equal so I can respect him and not have to carry him financially. I think a lot of men feel the same - they might want to bang the hot chicks, but won't marry them because they don't want to carry them financially. This is why you usually see male doctors marrying reasonably attractive female doctors/lawyers etc, not hot strippers or escorts.

 

Money doesn't matter a bit to me, but like you, skill in their career does. I don't have much interest in dating someone who doesn't have a college degree and a real career, personally.

 

But that's part of compatibility and love, not a drop about money. . . I wouldn't share the same values as someone who didn't choose to go to college and pursue a skilled career they were passionate about. I am starting PhD work in January and education is extremely important to me, as is my career -- which doesn't earn me a ton now (I'm a teacher, though there is a bit more money to be made in Education where I'm going later, as an administrator or researcher) but which I love dearly.

[musemaj11]

I disagree that men are okay with women being a liability, in general, though a woman's earning power -- in many relationships -- is less sure than a man's throughout the marriage if they plan to have kids, unless the guy wants to be the more primary caregiver.

 

Most of the fellows I know definitely have some desire to provide for their families, but they don't want women who are dead weight. They want women with dreams, careers, education, and self-sufficiency, as well as beauty. The thing is, they are also educated, self-sufficient, talented, attractive, and awesome themselves.

Its not that men are okay with women who are liabilities. But its just that for example when I meet a woman Im attracted to, the first thing that comes to my mind is not, "I wonder what she does and how much money her career can provide for me and her kids."

 

I dont care if she makes $25,000/year because she works as a social worker helping homeless children or something. For me character is the most important. Im not interested in using someone as a shortcut to a nice life.

 

Anyway, countless women married men whom they feel zero physical attraction for for financial security. Every day I pray that I will not be one of those men.

 

Personally, I know it is love, when I see a woman who is with a man who makes a lot less money or a man who is with a less attractive woman.

Edited November 22, 2010 by musemaj11

[fishtaco]

Personally, I know it is love, when I see a woman who is with a man who makes a lot less money or a man who is with a less attractive woman.

 

Sometimes it's low self esteem.

[LittleTiger]

Anyway, countless women married men whom they feel zero physical attraction for for financial security. Every day I pray that I will not be one of those men.

 

Personally, I know it is love, when I see a woman who is with a man who makes a lot less money or a man who is with a less attractive woman.

 

Yes, you are right, there are many women who marry men for money. However, there are considerably more women who marry for love.

 

I'm starting to get the impression that you have a lot of money? Is that where this fear is coming from?

 

If this is honestly your biggest fear for your future (that's what you said in your original post), ditch the high powered career and get yourself a low paid job!!!

 

Yes, ridiculous suggestion, but no more ridiculous than what you're implying about women.

 

The men who end up married to beautiful women who are just after their money are generally blinded by the woman's looks and are either incredibly foolish or prepared to accept the trade off. Men who value other things besides looks won't be duped in this way.

 

If/when you fall in love, make sure it's for the right reasons - ie because she is an incredible human being - genuine, kind, caring, thoughtful, loving, fun to be with etc etc. A woman like that will love you for who you are and not what you have.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - theives hang about with theives! Be the sort of person you want to end up with and you'll end up with somebody you really want to be with.

[GooseChaser]

Another option that is available besides replacing a high-paying job with one that pays less is to be less "showy" with the money you do have-- for example, wear less expensive clothes and be frugal in general. Doing that, you would scare off women who are only interested in money, and still have the benefit of the high earnings. It could also help in saving more!

[musemaj11]

Another option that is available besides replacing a high-paying job with one that pays less is to be less "showy" with the money you do have-- for example, wear less expensive clothes and be frugal in general. Doing that, you would scare off women who are only interested in money, and still have the benefit of the high earnings. It could also help in saving more!

Yes, yes you are very right.

 

A lot of guys try to impress women with money and act surprised when they find out they only want their money which I think is ridiculous. My aunt once dated a guy who even went as far as borrowing his friend's Mercedes Benz just to pretend to appear richer than he really is. I mean WTF?!?